unfair to hold a grudge?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP. Partly because of this issue and partly because of other issues, I feel like there is a strong chance we will divorce eventually. Probably in the 3-5 year horizon. I am waiting of the kids to get a little older and for us to get out of debt. Maybe it won't happen, as bitter as I am there will always be a fair amount of inertia (again, primarily kids and money) to making such a change. My guess is that at some point, if we don't divorce, I will have an affair. To be honest, I feel entitled. I suppose if I do that, and she catches me, I can argue that we are even - one betrayal for another. We'll see. Appreciate the thoughtful comments here, and am surprised (pleasantly) to find a mostly non-critical audience.

As for the hormonal issue the PP raised, it could be. I did ask her to see if that was the case at one point. She said she'd look into it but never did.

"one betrayal for another"? OP, that's no way to live your life. This is sick. I hope you insist on your wife getting the help that other posters recommend, but you need to get some help, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP. Partly because of this issue and partly because of other issues, I feel like there is a strong chance we will divorce eventually. Probably in the 3-5 year horizon. I am waiting of the kids to get a little older and for us to get out of debt. Maybe it won't happen, as bitter as I am there will always be a fair amount of inertia (again, primarily kids and money) to making such a change. My guess is that at some point, if we don't divorce, I will have an affair. To be honest, I feel entitled. I suppose if I do that, and she catches me, I can argue that we are even - one betrayal for another. We'll see. Appreciate the thoughtful comments here, and am surprised (pleasantly) to find a mostly non-critical audience.

As for the hormonal issue the PP raised, it could be. I did ask her to see if that was the case at one point. She said she'd look into it but never did.

"one betrayal for another"? OP, that's no way to live your life. This is sick. I hope you insist on your wife getting the help that other posters recommend, but you need to get some help, too.

I am a PP, not OP, and to be fair, I think venting to DCUM is his "help." He just sounds like he's talking through his feelings. Sounds like he's been bottling it up for a long time and is just letting off some steam. Nothing wrong with that. If his wife gets medical attention to at least rule out a problem or address it, I think that would go MILES toward improving their relationship, just by showing she gives enough of a shit to get checked out, even if the sex doesn't dramatically improve. OP doesn't sound like a bad person, just one who is at the end of his (very long) rope.

[Anonymous]

Op doesn't sound like a bad person. He actually sounds like a nice guy and I actually agree he is e titled to an affair.

He didn't sign up for a life of no sex,she hasn't kept her vows either.

[Anonymous]

OP, I could have written your post. Still dealing with it, same as you. I wish you luck.

[Anonymous]

Before no-fault divorce, was the term for this "alienation of affection"? This problem seems to be more present than one would think. One of my theories is that people get married because they are tired of dating but never really cared all that much about the person they married, then are angry at the person they married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op doesn't sound like a bad person. He actually sounds like a nice guy and I actually agree he is e titled to an affair.

He didn't sign up for a life of no sex,she hasn't kept her vows either.

OP does sound like a good guy...but that doesn't entitle him to anything. He still has to work through his marriage. Everyone is faced with challenges in their lives. Just because you're a good person doesn't excuse you from those challenges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had an affair with a man like this and didn't feel bad. He didn't have kids or else I would have never done it...

I didn't know he was married at first, but once I found out I just felt bad for the guy. He was just so starved to affection and attention. After we had sex he just wanted to lie in bed together and cuddle for hours, because he said he never got that at home. They were together for a total of 10 years, married for 4, and had sex only a couple times a year. He was only 34 and really good looking and nice and fun, I have no idea what was wrong with his wife to just neglect him like that. I can't imagine what life would be like that.

I know it was wrong and I ended it, but truthfully I don't feel bad. If it wasn't me it would have been someone else, and his wife should have taken care of business at home.

Unless he was lying to you.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Well, I like to think I am a good guy. Most of the time. But I agree that doesn't buy me much and I still owe this my best effort, at least for a little while longer. I can take another several years of working on it and raising the kids. If it still crashes I will leave with a clear conscience and a some hard learned lessons.

To those one or two who said they are in the same situation, I would address it head-on asap. I thought I tried to, but I didn't push hard enough or pull the ultimate threat until way too late. Looking back now, with the benefit of hindsight, I should have left this relationship about 8 years ago. I didn't, and in one of our rare events we had another little one. I'm happy to have him, but he is a strong tether to an otherwise disappointing relationship. So, if you are in this situation I would figure it out one way or the other ASAP. If you don't have any kids, get the hell out now (why even both if no kids??)!!!!

It's a funny thing. I've heard it said that when a couple get married, the woman wishes/hopes she can change the man and he hopes she stays exactly the way she is. Neither happens, and both end up disappointed. So true in our case; I am not perfect and I know there are a few parts of my personality she wishes she could change but she has not. But I can feel like I didn't pull a bait and switch; I stayed the same. I know this is not always true, as I have some friends in great marriages (and some of them even have amazing sex lives - which I openly envy!). But, in my case, that is very true, I believe. My sense is that the change on her side is at least partly inevitable once you introduce kids.

[Anonymous]

OP, my advice is practical. yes, what you endured was not acceptable and I feel badly for you (I was in a relationship where I was the one longing for physical affection and it was tough, and not 10 years). But here's the deal. She is now finally responding--so by holding a grudge and continuing to hold it against her, you are now the one withholding--emotionally if not physically. Maybe you are 'justified' in doing so--but it ain't going to help. Basically, you can either see this as the opportunity to make the marriage more into something you want--which will require dealing with some of that anger-- or you use this as the crux for deciding if you are going to stay. Because if she's finally have sex willingly, and you want to blow things up because of your anger over her refusal to do so previously, then maybe you really want out of the marriage--there is also probably an aspect of making her want to "pay," but that won't be that productive. I guess I'd keep having sex with her, encouraging intimacy, and deal with my feelings in therapy, until I better understood what I wanted and could separate out explosive anger from stuff I needed to get off my chest with my spouse--at which point couples therapy might be a good place to bring up some of this. I also think that you're in a tough position--you can communicate some of this and probably need to, but from her perspective she's finally responding to your needs and so by telling her how angry you are, its not going to make her want to further respond to your needs and re-establish emotional and sexual intimacy. Your frustration is understandable, however.

[Anonymous]

Does she read DCUM ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, my advice is practical. yes, what you endured was not acceptable and I feel badly for you (I was in a relationship where I was the one longing for physical affection and it was tough, and not 10 years). But here's the deal. She is now finally responding--so by holding a grudge and continuing to hold it against her, you are now the one withholding--emotionally if not physically. Maybe you are 'justified' in doing so--but it ain't going to help. Basically, you can either see this as the opportunity to make the marriage more into something you want--which will require dealing with some of that anger-- or you use this as the crux for deciding if you are going to stay. Because if she's finally have sex willingly, and you want to blow things up because of your anger over her refusal to do so previously, then maybe you really want out of the marriage--there is also probably an aspect of making her want to "pay," but that won't be that productive. I guess I'd keep having sex with her, encouraging intimacy, and deal with my feelings in therapy, until I better understood what I wanted and could separate out explosive anger from stuff I needed to get off my chest with my spouse--at which point couples therapy might be a good place to bring up some of this. I also think that you're in a tough position--you can communicate some of this and probably need to, but from her perspective she's finally responding to your needs and so by telling her how angry you are, its not going to make her want to further respond to your needs and re-establish emotional and sexual intimacy. Your frustration is understandable, however.

I agree with this PP!

[Anonymous]

I am the PP wit the 7 year denial. It does get better, but that kind of long term rejection changes the relationship permanently. You will never be what you hoped to be because of this issue even if she turned into a nympho overnight. It isn't the sex but the ego crushing rejection over years by the person you hold most dear that makes you change. If I would have known that mine would last 7 years, I would have cheated and felt fine about it. I had no idea I would suffer that long, and so I didn't, but I am not proud of that, and I would be guiltless now looking back if I had an affair. I hate that I carry this around with me. I hated reading your post and having the bitterness come back so vividly just from your story reminding me of mine. My wife has made vast improvements and I am comfortable where we are at, but I resent her from stealing a hugely important chunk of my life from me. I will never get those years back. Her selfishness stole from me something I will never get back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the PP wit the 7 year denial. It does get better, but that kind of long term rejection changes the relationship permanently. You will never be what you hoped to be because of this issue even if she turned into a nympho overnight. It isn't the sex but the ego crushing rejection over years by the person you hold most dear that makes you change. If I would have known that mine would last 7 years, I would have cheated and felt fine about it. I had no idea I would suffer that long, and so I didn't, but I am not proud of that, and I would be guiltless now looking back if I had an affair. I hate that I carry this around with me. I hated reading your post and having the bitterness come back so vividly just from your story reminding me of mine. My wife has made vast improvements and I am comfortable where we are at, but I resent her from stealing a hugely important chunk of my life from me. I will never get those years back. Her selfishness stole from me something I will never get back.

As a woman, I am finding this perspective really interesting. I am in a 1x a week marriage, sometimes more, sometimes less, but my husband would like sex more often. These posts have really made me look at the whole thing with much more sensitivity towards my spouse.

[Anonymous]

Odds are, sex is painful for her and she is ashamed. Or, you are a shitty lay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, my advice is practical. yes, what you endured was not acceptable and I feel badly for you (I was in a relationship where I was the one longing for physical affection and it was tough, and not 10 years). But here's the deal. She is now finally responding--so by holding a grudge and continuing to hold it against her, you are now the one withholding--emotionally if not physically. Maybe you are 'justified' in doing so--but it ain't going to help. Basically, you can either see this as the opportunity to make the marriage more into something you want--which will require dealing with some of that anger-- or you use this as the crux for deciding if you are going to stay. Because if she's finally have sex willingly, and you want to blow things up because of your anger over her refusal to do so previously, then maybe you really want out of the marriage--there is also probably an aspect of making her want to "pay," but that won't be that productive. I guess I'd keep having sex with her, encouraging intimacy, and deal with my feelings in therapy, until I better understood what I wanted and could separate out explosive anger from stuff I needed to get off my chest with my spouse--at which point couples therapy might be a good place to bring up some of this. I also think that you're in a tough position--you can communicate some of this and probably need to, but from her perspective she's finally responding to your needs and so by telling her how angry you are, its not going to make her want to further respond to your needs and re-establish emotional and sexual intimacy. Your frustration is understandable, however.

I read through all the responses and this one says what I was thinking - particularly the bolded part. I think the advice of going to therapy yourself is sound. It might not seem to make sense, but your thought process at this point - now that you're getting what you said you wanted - doesn't sound helpful to saving your marriage if that is truly your goal. And if you show your wife all your cards (the bitterness, anger, vengeful feelings, etc.) you risk losing the sex at this point too. Maybe you can keep the sex, go to therapy to work on your immediate feelings and then do couples counseling. Baby step your way to the marriage you'd like to have.