How to communicate to parents about reason of estrangement so they can stop the “we have no idea”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I am not in these estrangement wars but I read your whole post and I have no idea what you want.

I want (or wanted) a real relationship with them, where not all interactions are surface level. I am okay with surface level relationship at work, for example, if a co-worker is racist towards me, I wouldn't confront that person, I would just set quiet boundaries and carry on. I would only act if boundaries are crossed. But I expected more with parents, I guess I was wrong. I thought people should have open communication in a healthy relationship. But reflecting on upbringing, I think because of the way they were raised, they don't communicate at all, even to each other, everything is swept under the rug (to put it nicely). I want them to stop saying "How are you doing today?" as if they care, because we all know that the only answer that's allowed is "I am doing good".

Have you considered the possibility that the relationship feels superficial because they feel like they have to walk on eggshells around you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents? You are asking them for something they can't give. With my mother I had to work to be relational and not expect a relationship. The thing is I also set boundaries because she was using me as her therapist/dumping ground/pacifier and it enraged her I could no longer be her outlet. Then the tantrums ensued. We are low contact. I expect nothing in terms of emotional support, etc., but I do expect respectful behavior. I am polite and distant, and many topics need to be off limits because they set off her dramatics. She mourns the loss of the days I contorted myself into a pretzel trying to please her. She will never take accountability for any of her fits of rage or deluge of insults or her unrealistic expectations of how I am supposed to revolve my life around her needs and I just have to practice radical acceptance. I am polite, but detached.

Based on the reasonable replies on here, I think I have 2 options: No relationship, or Surface relationship. It's a shame because they could have had much better. I am going to accept that they are handicapped in this area, and I am going to have to stop expecting the impossible. It's so hard because they don't know they are handicapped and they think healthier people are all stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I am not in these estrangement wars but I read your whole post and I have no idea what you want.

I want (or wanted) a real relationship with them, where not all interactions are surface level. I am okay with surface level relationship at work, for example, if a co-worker is racist towards me, I wouldn't confront that person, I would just set quiet boundaries and carry on. I would only act if boundaries are crossed. But I expected more with parents, I guess I was wrong. I thought people should have open communication in a healthy relationship. But reflecting on upbringing, I think because of the way they were raised, they don't communicate at all, even to each other, everything is swept under the rug (to put it nicely). I want them to stop saying "How are you doing today?" as if they care, because we all know that the only answer that's allowed is "I am doing good".

Have you considered the possibility that the relationship feels superficial because they feel like they have to walk on eggshells around you?

OP here, yes, I have, I constantly reflect on myself. I don't know, but I would be happier if they say to me: "we read your letter and heard what you had to say, but..... and we feel this way... we feel like we walk on eggshells around you because...", you know, just say that instead of a one sentence response of "well, you must hate us".

Seriously, I feel much better already imagining they would say that to me. I would feel so seen. LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that OP is between the ages of 22 and 29 years old.

OP - this is a tale as old as time, particularly between generations on either side of the "emotions are good and healthy!" divide. You grow up, you learn to be an adult, you learn to communicate, and to manage and express your emotions. Then see your parents in a whole new light - and it's sucky. They've got Faults. Big ones. Ones that you would never want in a friend or in a relationship, or with your kids, and they negatively impact your relationship with them. And just as you learned and grew and figured it out between the ages of 12 and 22, you want THEM to learn and grow and figure it out and you know life will be better for them and you guys will have a much better relationship. And if you can just communicate clearly and express yourself well and get through to them, and if they would just do the bare minimum of the objectively right thing (listening and having empathy for their beloved child) then things would be fine!

It's not. going. to. happen.

They will never change, ever. They're Boomers, right? They didn't grow up with emotional empathy being positive, they never learned how to do it, and they're not going to it now. Nothing you say will change them. They will not change. NEVER. This does NOT mean they don't love you, but that love is NEVER going to look like you think it should.

The first step is accepting this, which you clearly have not done. When you say this: "not expecting them to change, but just a little acknowledgment of my feelings from them would make a difference" - that is ABSOLUTELY expecting them to change. They don't acknowledge feelings. That's not who they are.

The second step is taking a step back and saying "have they really done something so awful that the right path is to never see them again, despite the fact that I love them and they worked their butts off to raise me." That happens, even when there's love on both sides. Were they abusive? Do they do things like constantly berate you, curse at you, are they cruel to you? Do they cross boundaries, like freaking out when you don't answer the phone, calling you 20 times in a row and then calling the police? Are they mean and nasty all the time? There are situations where no contact makes total sense, and I really feel for the people who have to deal with that.

But nothing you're saying says that no contact is the right next step. They don't want to hear anything negative and they don't express any empathy and your conversations shut down when there's conflict, so everything feels very shallow? Um, okay that's like more than 50% of Boomer parents/grandparents. This is not worth cutting them off. You need to develop some thicker skin, recognize it's not about you (if they loved me wouldn't they... no. They're emotionally stunted, so no), and set some reasonable boundaries so that you can spend time with them without tearing your hair out. So - positive stories, save your complaining for people who will get it. Find something neutral and fun to do that isn't so much talking (card games? Board games? Follow sports together?) Limit the quantity of time (quarterly?) so it's manageable for you. And ride this out.

In other words: Refusing to see your parents who you claim to love for two years its a much bigger transgression than anything they've done to you, unless you're leaving out a bunch of stuff.

OP here. Thank you for your very thoughtful reply, you are a kind person who is willing to share your wisdom with a stranger online. I am starting to agree with you that I just need to have a surface level relationship with them, that is what they want. To them that's the only relationship humans have anyway. Looking back, I am not sure they had any real relationship with each other or any person. But I am not there yet, I am still so hurt that I have no strength to make that step. I would rather sit here feeling sick to my stomach & complain on DCUM, LOL. I hope one day I can "ride this out" as you suggested. But first, I need to really let it go, knowing that I will never have any real relationship with them and be ok with that. And yes, I left out all the stuff, and no, they didn't both work hard to raise me, one of them is hard-core alcoholic and did nothing for me. The other did all housework but enabled the alcoholic. I am not going to any details. But honestly, the abuse that some might view as "real" feels less hurt to me than the emotional neglect.

PP here. Sounds like you're on a better path than when you first posted - then you were still talking about what you could say that would make THEM understand. Now you're realizing that the work here is for YOU. You need to really let it go and be okay with what you've got (rather than what you want). A good summary.

I'll also say that with alcoholism involved, you might get a lot out of Al-Anon, for families of alcoholics. Especially if they are still drinking.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

As many have told you, you have to let it go. Imagine them as ostriches with their heads under the sand as that's the max of their coping ability. Denial, denial, denial. I think a lot of us, especially on DCUM, have been/are in your shoes. In a way be happy, like the PP said, that your parents are not using YOU to be THEIR dumping ground as it's also very common, especially with emotionally immature moms. I'm also low contact, maybe even no contact, I don't know. I set up boundaries a few years ago and a s*storm ensued, but after I stopped laying down, she kind of stopped all contact. I have NEVER had any emotional support from her, being parentified from early on. I'm finally at peace with all of it. That said, my dad was the reasonable one (even though in retrospect enabled mom's crazy or maybe tried to avoid it?), so usually one parent is more "normal" than the other. When my dad was alive, I communicated with him instead. So I'd not take them as a package deal, you know yourself which of your parents can be talked to and which one cannot.

[Anonymous]

I went no contact with my entire family. I did it in a few sentences. Some version of I will no longer be speaking to any of you, please do not contact me ever again, goodbye. No flowery five-page letters. Why? Because they already know what they did. I don't need to re-explain it to them, because I was there. They were there, too. They treated me very badly. You won't get abusive people to admit any fault. That's a fool's errand and a long letter only gives them the drama they crave. Then nothing changes. Case in point: you wrote that five-page letter, and what came of it? What got better?So how will a two-page letter help matters? You have to drop the rope all the way, walk away, shut the door and lock it, OP. Let them sit in the silence that they have earned. You owe them nothing. If they actually cared about you, then this wouldn't have happened. Google the term "radical acceptance", read it, do it, and mean it. We're done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm guessing they have no idea because they were usually never "trying" to hurt you so they don't get it when you were hurt. In their own minds, they were "doing their best" and no one's perfect etc.

I have had tastes of it over time. Like the time I told my 14 yo son in the car that no he could not miss his hockey game to take a girl we'd never met and he'd only met online to a junior high prom at another school and it turned into a whole "so thanks mom and dad for telling me you don't think someone could be interested in me!"

He also once got mad coming home to visit from college where he spent the whole day visiting everyone else and after several "I'll just be a bit delayed" he said he'd be at my house at around 9:30pm and I said, "it's OK I am just done and going to sleep" and he took that as some kind of hostile "I AM DONE !!! (with you)" etc. when I was just basically face-planting after waiting the whole day for him to come around.

His last stop had been my in-laws and they said it was shameful that I got mad at him for staying so long there. I wasn't even mad at all. I was seriously just falling asleep and was entirely okay with stuff just going to the next day.

I really didn't even understand what I'd done wrong, but he took those two things as great offenses at the time. Now he doesn't, of course.

The same "prom girl" he eventually did date for a while also threw a conniption fit a few years later when she wanted him to take him to another prom and he told her we were making him stay to take his final exams that day at his prep school until 4pm, throwing her entire timeline off course.

She was such a pill she wouldn't even let me take pictures of them while I was helping him dress in his tux in the parking lot of her HS to help them make the bus to the fancy hotel. She wouldn't even look me in the eye and turned away when I tried to hug her.

He says today he realizes it all.

So I actually read these examples you're giving. I think an emotionally mature thing to do as a parent is in the moment have the conversation with the teenager about how you got to that level of misunderstanding. Because both your examples and especially the second one (I am just done) truly do have a lot of room for misunderstanding. The parent is just not automatically right with good intentions. Parents should own their own role and fallibility in sometimes not using the best tone or being tired or just not handling things great. Through these conversations you'll better earn trust and figure out each other's triggers. Don't just dismiss their feelings or reactions and don't just count on one day they will realize they were wrong and you were right because your intentions were always good. Yes, I have teenagers.

It's hard to be always be correct in the right in the moment.

I guess you trust time to sort it out when you acquire perspectives you just haven't had the time to earn.

I'm absolutely not perfect, my daughter is emotionally delayed and still often talks to me, but at least one of her older siblings who has always been her champion gets treated the same way that I do. And she literally loved him so much she would always crawl out of her crib to go find him in ye olden days. That's why it hurts him. We just don't know what irks her.

But it's her decision.

She has all the advantages in life. She's OK.

I guess my basic point is that it's very hard for some sets of parents and kids to communicate. You don't all have the same skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went no contact with my entire family. I did it in a few sentences. Some version of I will no longer be speaking to any of you, please do not contact me ever again, goodbye. No flowery five-page letters. Why? Because they already know what they did. I don't need to re-explain it to them, because I was there. They were there, too. They treated me very badly. You won't get abusive people to admit any fault. That's a fool's errand and a long letter only gives them the drama they crave. Then nothing changes. Case in point: you wrote that five-page letter, and what came of it? What got better?So how will a two-page letter help matters? You have to drop the rope all the way, walk away, shut the door and lock it, OP. Let them sit in the silence that they have earned. You owe them nothing. If they actually cared about you, then this wouldn't have happened. Google the term "radical acceptance", read it, do it, and mean it. We're done.

You have clearly thought everything out. This is the explanation I believe far more than "my mom did this to me! why my mom so bad!"

And they just sort of want people to say "you right! Your Mom wrong!"

It's in between somewhere. It might be different if you ever got to meet your parent at the same age you are. Like say both of you are 20. 30. etc. But you do not.

Your parent was responsible for you and there was a job. When they fail in that job - often spectacularly - they may not even realize they've done it. But they have.

And they don't get to go back in time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went no contact with my entire family. I did it in a few sentences. Some version of I will no longer be speaking to any of you, please do not contact me ever again, goodbye. No flowery five-page letters. Why? Because they already know what they did. I don't need to re-explain it to them, because I was there. They were there, too. They treated me very badly. You won't get abusive people to admit any fault. That's a fool's errand and a long letter only gives them the drama they crave. Then nothing changes. Case in point: you wrote that five-page letter, and what came of it? What got better?So how will a two-page letter help matters? You have to drop the rope all the way, walk away, shut the door and lock it, OP. Let them sit in the silence that they have earned. You owe them nothing. If they actually cared about you, then this wouldn't have happened. Google the term "radical acceptance", read it, do it, and mean it. We're done.

You have clearly thought everything out. This is the explanation I believe far more than "my mom did this to me! why my mom so bad!"

And they just sort of want people to say "you right! Your Mom wrong!"

It's in between somewhere. It might be different if you ever got to meet your parent at the same age you are. Like say both of you are 20. 30. etc. But you do not.

Your parent was responsible for you and there was a job. When they fail in that job - often spectacularly - they may not even realize they've done it. But they have.

And they don't get to go back in time.

And you don't have to live what's left of your life in the future, based on what they did in the past.

[Anonymous]

OP, they think you're mentally ill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have a weird idea of no contact. Stop contacting them if you want to be no contact.

The interactions described was before NC. - OP

But you want to contact them again to explain no contact. Leave them alone. And also they gave you the TL, DR treatment because 5 pages (was it front and back?) might have been too much.

Because I love them, and their time on earth is getting shorter and shorter, and it makes me sad, but yes, you are correct. - OP

It's just not that easy to let go

Look up the Emotionally Immature Parents books. I think there's one about how to manage your relationship with them. Decide if it is easier to cut them off or to meet them where they are and do that. It sounds like there is a lot of love in your family...there is also dysfunction. They may never change, but you can change how you react to their immaturity. You can think about your boundaries and try a brief visit. They are not able to help you with tough life situations, but they love you and will enjoy the good times. If you can accept that, then do so. Do you have a sibling or someone in your family who can understand you? I hope you can find a way to stay in touch because they don't sound abusive, just not able to emotionally support you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have a weird idea of no contact. Stop contacting them if you want to be no contact.

The interactions described was before NC. - OP

But you want to contact them again to explain no contact. Leave them alone. And also they gave you the TL, DR treatment because 5 pages (was it front and back?) might have been too much.

Because I love them, and their time on earth is getting shorter and shorter, and it makes me sad, but yes, you are correct. - OP

It's just not that easy to let go

It sounds like you want to punish them. Not like you're trying to protect yourself.

Do you spend a lot of time consuming social media/tiktok posts about going no contact? Have you romanticized it? Do you have some script in your head for what it looks like?

THIS! Gray rock should be to protect yourself and you just want to punish your parents. You want them to know what they did was wrong, which is actually hurting you even further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five page letter of grievances sounds excessive, to be honest. Maybe they abused you, but it sounds more like you are a bit of a delicate flower.

5 pages was sent because I thought if they kept saying they "have no idea" or "well, you must hate us", maybe they deserved to know, so let me open up and explain to them calmly why I felt so unimportant. It was written with great care, with lots of loving expressions. A letter I thought for sure would "clear any misunderstanding", and lead to greater relationship. No, the letter was not sent to lash out, or for revenge, or attention, it was meant for reconciliation. I also thought for sure they would get it this time, because I meant 100% well. Well, I was wrong. So stupid.

Post the letter here (change names of course). Let the DCUM hivemind judge what your letter sounds like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I am not in these estrangement wars but I read your whole post and I have no idea what you want.

I want (or wanted) a real relationship with them, where not all interactions are surface level. I am okay with surface level relationship at work, for example, if a co-worker is racist towards me, I wouldn't confront that person, I would just set quiet boundaries and carry on. I would only act if boundaries are crossed. But I expected more with parents, I guess I was wrong. I thought people should have open communication in a healthy relationship. But reflecting on upbringing, I think because of the way they were raised, they don't communicate at all, even to each other, everything is swept under the rug (to put it nicely). I want them to stop saying "How are you doing today?" as if they care, because we all know that the only answer that's allowed is "I am doing good".

Have you considered the possibility that the relationship feels superficial because they feel like they have to walk on eggshells around you?

OP here, yes, I have, I constantly reflect on myself. I don't know, but I would be happier if they say to me: "we read your letter and heard what you had to say, but..... and we feel this way... we feel like we walk on eggshells around you because...", you know, just say that instead of a one sentence response of "well, you must hate us".

Seriously, I feel much better already imagining they would say that to me. I would feel so seen. LOL

But they just aren't going to. And instead of accepting that, you're just wallowing and hurting yourself further. I'd go so far as to say that the majority of your issues are caused by your reactions. Accept that your parents aren't going to give you emotional support. Accept that they're human and you're going to break the cycle. Work on making it better for your kids and rely on your spouse more.

I really felt a lot like you did before I had kids. Having kids has come to help me view my parents in a very favorable light. They weren't perfect, but they were doing the best they could do. Your parents didn't beat you, starve you, steal from you. What they did wasn't even intentional on their own part. But yes, they could have done better. You just have to let it go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, they think you're mentally ill.

This. And frankly, I do too...