Advice - Fitting in With Other Black Kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's more of a class thing than race thing. Lower class people shun upper class people when they assume they won't be accepted into the upper clas society.

I agree with this. It is very similar to what goes on in Hispanic groups (if you are into intellectual things you are often teased and even bullied).

It socioeconomics but also cultural differences. A British black author took a perspective that would offend many in this country: https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/our-obsession-with-race-is-pushing-us-apart-xrcfkmn8h. A lot of research has been done on this.

www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/our-obsession-with-race-is-pushing-us-apart-xrcfkmn8h

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's more of a class thing than race thing. Lower class people shun upper class people when they assume they won't be accepted into the upper clas society.

I agree with this. It is very similar to what goes on in Hispanic groups (if you are into intellectual things you are often teased and even bullied).

Do you know how you all sound? Making the underlying assumption that the African child is higher class and intellectual…and the black American students are all poor and anti intellectual and bullying her because of that. It’s a lot of bias tied up in these statements

No one specified who belonged to which social class, but socioeconomics does play a part in intraracial relations.

People have indirectly implied who belonged to which social class.

And even if not…why is there an assumption that class is at play here. We are talking about girls at the SAME private school. If we are assuming it should be that the girls are all of similar status or are at least middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's more of a class thing than race thing. Lower class people shun upper class people when they assume they won't be accepted into the upper clas society.

I agree with this. It is very similar to what goes on in Hispanic groups (if you are into intellectual things you are often teased and even bullied).

Do you know how you all sound? Making the underlying assumption that the African child is higher class and intellectual…and the black American students are all poor and anti intellectual and bullying her because of that. It’s a lot of bias tied up in these statements

No one specified who belonged to which social class, but socioeconomics does play a part in intraracial relations.

Not the PP but it was clear from these posts which groups fell into which category. The original claim was that "lower class people shun upper class people" and the context was OP's daughter feeling shut out from the Black American (ADOS) girls. It's not a stretch to figure out what was meant by that.

Here's why I'd encourage my child to join the BSU in this situation. At some point in OP's child's time in HS, it's likely that *something* will happen that makes the racial divide clear. Maybe it will be a school-wide incident like a slur carved into a desk, or a Black parent stopped by campus security while picking up their child. Or maybe it will be something regional, like the shooting of an unarmed Black man that leads to social upheaval. It might also be something personal, like a casual insinuation that OP's daughter is benefiting from AA when applying to college.

Something will happen, because something always happens. When it does, there's a good chance that the daughter's "nice white friends" won't understand, or will play it off as a joke, or minimize the harm. In that moment, OP will want her daughter to have some Black friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's more of a class thing than race thing. Lower class people shun upper class people when they assume they won't be accepted into the upper clas society.

I agree with this. It is very similar to what goes on in Hispanic groups (if you are into intellectual things you are often teased and even bullied).

Do you know how you all sound? Making the underlying assumption that the African child is higher class and intellectual…and the black American students are all poor and anti intellectual and bullying her because of that. It’s a lot of bias tied up in these statements

No one specified who belonged to which social class, but socioeconomics does play a part in intraracial relations.

Not the PP but it was clear from these posts which groups fell into which category. The original claim was that "lower class people shun upper class people" and the context was OP's daughter feeling shut out from the Black American (ADOS) girls. It's not a stretch to figure out what was meant by that.

Here's why I'd encourage my child to join the BSU in this situation. At some point in OP's child's time in HS, it's likely that *something* will happen that makes the racial divide clear. Maybe it will be a school-wide incident like a slur carved into a desk, or a Black parent stopped by campus security while picking up their child. Or maybe it will be something regional, like the shooting of an unarmed Black man that leads to social upheaval. It might also be something personal, like a casual insinuation that OP's daughter is benefiting from AA when applying to college.

Something will happen, because something always happens. When it does, there's a good chance that the daughter's "nice white friends" won't understand, or will play it off as a joke, or minimize the harm. In that moment, OP will want her daughter to have some Black friends.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's more of a class thing than race thing. Lower class people shun upper class people when they assume they won't be accepted into the upper clas society.

I agree with this. It is very similar to what goes on in Hispanic groups (if you are into intellectual things you are often teased and even bullied).

Do you know how you all sound? Making the underlying assumption that the African child is higher class and intellectual…and the black American students are all poor and anti intellectual and bullying her because of that. It’s a lot of bias tied up in these statements

No one specified who belonged to which social class, but socioeconomics does play a part in intraracial relations.

Not the PP but it was clear from these posts which groups fell into which category. The original claim was that "lower class people shun upper class people" and the context was OP's daughter feeling shut out from the Black American (ADOS) girls. It's not a stretch to figure out what was meant by that.

Here's why I'd encourage my child to join the BSU in this situation. At some point in OP's child's time in HS, it's likely that *something* will happen that makes the racial divide clear. Maybe it will be a school-wide incident like a slur carved into a desk, or a Black parent stopped by campus security while picking up their child. Or maybe it will be something regional, like the shooting of an unarmed Black man that leads to social upheaval. It might also be something personal, like a casual insinuation that OP's daughter is benefiting from AA when applying to college.

Something will happen, because something always happens. When it does, there's a good chance that the daughter's "nice white friends" won't understand, or will play it off as a joke, or minimize the harm. In that moment, OP will want her daughter to have some Black friends.

You don’t know that do you? White people are not all the same. Maybe she feels more understood by her friends than by the people telling her that her choice of friends is visually offputting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's more of a class thing than race thing. Lower class people shun upper class people when they assume they won't be accepted into the upper clas society.

I agree with this. It is very similar to what goes on in Hispanic groups (if you are into intellectual things you are often teased and even bullied).

Do you know how you all sound? Making the underlying assumption that the African child is higher class and intellectual…and the black American students are all poor and anti intellectual and bullying her because of that. It’s a lot of bias tied up in these statements

No one specified who belonged to which social class, but socioeconomics does play a part in intraracial relations.

This is OP - just to be clear, the Black American girls seem to be from middle class/upper middle class backgrounds - and there are definitely some from some very well heeled families. It is not a poor/rich thing. I really think it is just cultural. It happens with me and other Black American women sometimes - it is just not my day to day experience so it doesn’t impact me. My DD understandably is not as tuned into Black American culture (and doesn’t have to be) but I believe that shouldn’t close the door to potential friendship and/or socialization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's more of a class thing than race thing. Lower class people shun upper class people when they assume they won't be accepted into the upper clas society.

I agree with this. It is very similar to what goes on in Hispanic groups (if you are into intellectual things you are often teased and even bullied).

It socioeconomics but also cultural differences. A British black author took a perspective that would offend many in this country: https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/our-obsession-with-race-is-pushing-us-apart-xrcfkmn8h. A lot of research has been done on this.

I could not open this link. Could you re-post?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's more of a class thing than race thing. Lower class people shun upper class people when they assume they won't be accepted into the upper clas society.

I agree with this. It is very similar to what goes on in Hispanic groups (if you are into intellectual things you are often teased and even bullied).

It socioeconomics but also cultural differences. A British black author took a perspective that would offend many in this country: https://www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/our-obsession-with-race-is-pushing-us-apart-xrcfkmn8h. A lot of research has been done on this.

I could not open this link. Could you re-post?

It was re-posted: www.thetimes.com/uk/royal-family/article/our-obsession-with-race-is-pushing-us-apart-xrcfkmn8h

[Anonymous]

Your daughter's situation is not insignificant, but it would help her to look beyond the first month of 9th grade. If you help her do that, she may realize that over time she will probably gain and lose friends. Her friend group at school will likely change, and it may grow to include one or more of the students that she's having trouble connecting with.

She should also avoid trying to change who she is just to fit in order to appeal to the other Black students.

[Anonymous]

There’s a lot of crossover between this conversation and the Facebook group Culturally Fluent Families, for those who are interested. https://facebook.com/groups/331610987317730/. (It’s a private group but you can request to join).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know this might sound odd but my high school DD is having an issue at her school. We are African immigrants and have largely lived in predominantly white environments our DD’s entire life. At my DD’s private school, I would say most of her close friends are not Black (mostly white). There is, however, a group of Black American girls who hang out together, eat lunch together, etc. My DD has said when she has said hello or tried to engage in small talk, these girls usually snub her or roll their eyes. My DD is very happy in her friend group (really sweet girls) but is concerned she is being alienated from these other girls just because of her close friend group.

Any advice? Culturally, I am at a loss, as I did not grow up here but I know there is often significant tension between Black and White Americans or that Black American students sometimes feel ostracized. I want to tread carefully so as not to offend anyone but I also want my DD to have friends who love and accept her for who she is. I don’t want her to have to try to be something/someone she is not just to fit it. I know this can often be a point of tension between Caribbean or African families and Black Americans (them not accepting us and us not accepting them). Not sure how to navigate or if it even needs to be navigated.

Stick with the group that supports you. The teenage years are hard enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is actually very typical. Black American kids will often “other” African students. It is a cultural thing that is difficult to overcome. I’m African and found that in college and the workforce it became easier to forget relationships with other Black American people but I agree with the other poster who said not to force it. She will just end up feeling excluded and getting her feelings hurt. They don’t accept her and they likely won’t but she has a good group friends who seem to really like her.

Let’s not ignore the fact that Africans routinely try to separate and “other” themselves from Black Americans. I find this to be the case more than Black folks trying to distinguish themselves from Africans.

Not necessarily. There could be cultural differences. And some Black Americans can treat whoever is different culturally from them in a mean way, yes Africans, West Indians, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this might sound odd but my high school DD is having an issue at her school. We are African immigrants and have largely lived in predominantly white environments our DD’s entire life. At my DD’s private school, I would say most of her close friends are not Black (mostly white). There is, however, a group of Black American girls who hang out together, eat lunch together, etc. My DD has said when she has said hello or tried to engage in small talk, these girls usually snub her or roll their eyes. My DD is very happy in her friend group (really sweet girls) but is concerned she is being alienated from these other girls just because of her close friend group.

Any advice? Culturally, I am at a loss, as I did not grow up here but I know there is often significant tension between Black and White Americans or that Black American students sometimes feel ostracized. I want to tread carefully so as not to offend anyone but I also want my DD to have friends who love and accept her for who she is. I don’t want her to have to try to be something/someone she is not just to fit it. I know this can often be a point of tension between Caribbean or African families and Black Americans (them not accepting us and us not accepting them). Not sure how to navigate or if it even needs to be navigated.

Stick with the group that supports you. The teenage years are hard enough.

I agree. Sometimes trying to fit in with that crowd is exhausting. The moms are often in sororities or little known groups like J&J. Although of little relevance to the outside world, these moms and their daughters make it seem like you have to check off certain criteria, often superficial and materialistic, just to be accepted. Your DD right now probably has friends who accept her just as she is, think she’s interesting and are judging her solely on her personality. Being accepted by the Black girls at her school may mean changing some positive aspects of her personality just to fit in. It’s not worth it. I’m African and dealt with this growing up and the friends who accepted me as is were my real true friends and we are still friends today.

[Anonymous]

Sorry - J&J means Jack&Jill

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is actually very typical. Black American kids will often “other” African students. It is a cultural thing that is difficult to overcome. I’m African and found that in college and the workforce it became easier to forget relationships with other Black American people but I agree with the other poster who said not to force it. She will just end up feeling excluded and getting her feelings hurt. They don’t accept her and they likely won’t but she has a good group friends who seem to really like her.

Let’s not ignore the fact that Africans routinely try to separate and “other” themselves from Black Americans. I find this to be the case more than Black folks trying to distinguish themselves from Africans.

Not necessarily. There could be cultural differences. And some Black Americans can treat whoever is different culturally from them in a mean way, yes Africans, West Indians, etc.

You are delusional and very much so a part of the problem if you don’t recognize or can’t admit that the problem goes both ways.

Anecdotally I’ve heard stories from a lot of black immigrants that their parents discouraged them from hanging out with African Americans because of the stigma associated with them. Pointing fingers to say who is more at fault does little to heal the divide but it is important to admit all parties have had a role in getting us to where we are today.