What do you do when your adult child goes into therapy and lays blame at your feet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:nah, no one needs crummy grandparents. you guys are trolls. just clean up your act and be decent to your adult children are.

they’re terrified because they are realizing that the consequences of being shitty parents is that they won’t have access to their grandkids.

My son has met my dad. But I’m amused to be hectored about how I have some kind of duty to preserve family bonds with someone who disinherited me.

Exactly this. My own parents are making a minimal effort to have a relationship and be conciliatory after we told them that no, they don’t get to visit this summer and see us or their grandkids. I won’t have my children subjected to bigotry, intolerance, or toxicity.

We aren’t even on speaking terms and they sent a GD email telling us when they would be visiting and that they’d stay at a hotel near our home and will come to our house and visit daily. Like, no, this isn’t how this works. What kind of narcissistic person thinks they can go from not speaking to their children for months and every time they did talk it was horrible to we are deciding we are visiting? Like it’s some right of an American grandparent to see their grandchildren?

You are looking fairly intolerant yourself. BTW your kids still want to see their grandparents and when they grow up, they will ask why you didn't let them see the grands. You are using your kids as pawn in your political battle.

You're wrong. It's bigotry when someone says that every LGBTQ person has a mental illness or that it's a choice because it's a 'sin' and god wouldn't make them that way. It's bigotry when they want to teach my children that white people should not be in relationships with black people. It's bigotry when they think that anyone not in the same religion as them is going to hell forever and ever. It's bigotry when they say that gay people shouldn't receive treatment for HIV. None of those beliefs are my beliefs and I will not subject my children to bigoted people just because they're the grandparents. They have no right to see my kids nor do they have any god given right to continue spreading bigotry down to later generations just because they were taught that way and choose not to re-evaluate their beliefs.

Right. And a grandparent who sincerely wanted to maintain ties with the grandkids would agree to just not discuss those issues, even if their beliefs did not change. A grandparent who thought exerting control and superiority would put that above the relationship, with predictable consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asian. Reading this post makes very sad. This cultural is certainly not very kind to old people. When you guys talk about diversity and inclusion, you only mean lgbt and minority. You don’t extent the same curtesy to old generation, and what they once believed. You don’t stop to think twice that was actually your own history. When you talk about love you the way you are, you don’t really think you should love your parent the way they are. Isn’t it kind of hypocritical?

I think you need to read the whole post. And no, I do not think it is hypocritical for children to have different standards for parents than vice versa. They are not symmetrical relationships. FWIW I know several Asian people who cut off their parents.

DP. This must be the company you keep. I live in a community with a very large Asian population and I know literally no families with cut off parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:nah, no one needs crummy grandparents. you guys are trolls. just clean up your act and be decent to your adult children are.

they’re terrified because they are realizing that the consequences of being shitty parents is that they won’t have access to their grandkids.

My son has met my dad. But I’m amused to be hectored about how I have some kind of duty to preserve family bonds with someone who disinherited me.

Exactly this. My own parents are making a minimal effort to have a relationship and be conciliatory after we told them that no, they don’t get to visit this summer and see us or their grandkids. I won’t have my children subjected to bigotry, intolerance, or toxicity.

We aren’t even on speaking terms and they sent a GD email telling us when they would be visiting and that they’d stay at a hotel near our home and will come to our house and visit daily. Like, no, this isn’t how this works. What kind of narcissistic person thinks they can go from not speaking to their children for months and every time they did talk it was horrible to we are deciding we are visiting? Like it’s some right of an American grandparent to see their grandchildren?

You are looking fairly intolerant yourself. BTW your kids still want to see their grandparents and when they grow up, they will ask why you didn't let them see the grands. You are using your kids as pawn in your political battle.

You're wrong. It's bigotry when someone says that every LGBTQ person has a mental illness or that it's a choice because it's a 'sin' and god wouldn't make them that way. It's bigotry when they want to teach my children that white people should not be in relationships with black people. It's bigotry when they think that anyone not in the same religion as them is going to hell forever and ever. It's bigotry when they say that gay people shouldn't receive treatment for HIV. None of those beliefs are my beliefs and I will not subject my children to bigoted people just because they're the grandparents. They have no right to see my kids nor do they have any god given right to continue spreading bigotry down to later generations just because they were taught that way and choose not to re-evaluate their beliefs.

Right. And a grandparent who sincerely wanted to maintain ties with the grandkids would agree to just not discuss those issues, even if their beliefs did not change. A grandparent who thought exerting control and superiority would put that above the relationship, with predictable consequences.

Again, you're wrong. They are narcissistic. They believe their beliefs are right. They believe it's a FACT that interracial marriage is wrong and that this should be taught to my kids. When you think you're speaking the word of god and you are convinced you are right about things, there is nothing that anyone can do to convince you otherwise. Even if they did promise to not discuss certain things, I know for a fact that they'd try to give my children bible lessons on interracial marriage and LGBT people anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asian. Reading this post makes very sad. This cultural is certainly not very kind to old people. When you guys talk about diversity and inclusion, you only mean lgbt and minority. You don’t extent the same curtesy to old generation, and what they once believed. You don’t stop to think twice that was actually your own history. When you talk about love you the way you are, you don’t really think you should love your parent the way they are. Isn’t it kind of hypocritical?

I think you need to read the whole post. And no, I do not think it is hypocritical for children to have different standards for parents than vice versa. They are not symmetrical relationships. FWIW I know several Asian people who cut off their parents.

DP. This must be the company you keep. I live in a community with a very large Asian population and I know literally no families with cut off parents.

Maybe they just aren't talking about it! I read a memoir "What My Bones Know" by a young Asian woman. Her abusive parents took off when she was in high school, and she tried to have a relationship with her dad, but in the end she was estranged from both, not necessarily by her choice. She spends some time in the book exploring how Asian immigrant parents pass down their generational trauma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:nah, no one needs crummy grandparents. you guys are trolls. just clean up your act and be decent to your adult children are.

they’re terrified because they are realizing that the consequences of being shitty parents is that they won’t have access to their grandkids.

My son has met my dad. But I’m amused to be hectored about how I have some kind of duty to preserve family bonds with someone who disinherited me.

Exactly this. My own parents are making a minimal effort to have a relationship and be conciliatory after we told them that no, they don’t get to visit this summer and see us or their grandkids. I won’t have my children subjected to bigotry, intolerance, or toxicity.

We aren’t even on speaking terms and they sent a GD email telling us when they would be visiting and that they’d stay at a hotel near our home and will come to our house and visit daily. Like, no, this isn’t how this works. What kind of narcissistic person thinks they can go from not speaking to their children for months and every time they did talk it was horrible to we are deciding we are visiting? Like it’s some right of an American grandparent to see their grandchildren?

You are looking fairly intolerant yourself. BTW your kids still want to see their grandparents and when they grow up, they will ask why you didn't let them see the grands. You are using your kids as pawn in your political battle.

You're wrong. It's bigotry when someone says that every LGBTQ person has a mental illness or that it's a choice because it's a 'sin' and god wouldn't make them that way. It's bigotry when they want to teach my children that white people should not be in relationships with black people. It's bigotry when they think that anyone not in the same religion as them is going to hell forever and ever. It's bigotry when they say that gay people shouldn't receive treatment for HIV. None of those beliefs are my beliefs and I will not subject my children to bigoted people just because they're the grandparents. They have no right to see my kids nor do they have any god given right to continue spreading bigotry down to later generations just because they were taught that way and choose not to re-evaluate their beliefs.

Right. And a grandparent who sincerely wanted to maintain ties with the grandkids would agree to just not discuss those issues, even if their beliefs did not change. A grandparent who thought exerting control and superiority would put that above the relationship, with predictable consequences.

Again, you're wrong. They are narcissistic. They believe their beliefs are right. They believe it's a FACT that interracial marriage is wrong and that this should be taught to my kids. When you think you're speaking the word of god and you are convinced you are right about things, there is nothing that anyone can do to convince you otherwise. Even if they did promise to not discuss certain things, I know for a fact that they'd try to give my children bible lessons on interracial marriage and LGBT people anyway.

Exactly, my mother would totally agree not to show the 5yo an inappropriately violent and emotional religious video, while at the exact same time plotting how she would sneak to do so. I watched her do this with my nephew, despite my sister's explicit directions not to do it. I realized then I could never trust anything she said, and never trust her around my own children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asian. Reading this post makes very sad. This cultural is certainly not very kind to old people. When you guys talk about diversity and inclusion, you only mean lgbt and minority. You don’t extent the same curtesy to old generation, and what they once believed. You don’t stop to think twice that was actually your own history. When you talk about love you the way you are, you don’t really think you should love your parent the way they are. Isn’t it kind of hypocritical?

I think you need to read the whole post. And no, I do not think it is hypocritical for children to have different standards for parents than vice versa. They are not symmetrical relationships. FWIW I know several Asian people who cut off their parents.

DP. This must be the company you keep. I live in a community with a very large Asian population and I know literally no families with cut off parents.

Maybe they just aren't talking about it! I read a memoir "What My Bones Know" by a young Asian woman. Her abusive parents took off when she was in high school, and she tried to have a relationship with her dad, but in the end she was estranged from both, not necessarily by her choice. She spends some time in the book exploring how Asian immigrant parents pass down their generational trauma.

So the person you "know" is the author of a book?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asian. Reading this post makes very sad. This cultural is certainly not very kind to old people. When you guys talk about diversity and inclusion, you only mean lgbt and minority. You don’t extent the same curtesy to old generation, and what they once believed. You don’t stop to think twice that was actually your own history. When you talk about love you the way you are, you don’t really think you should love your parent the way they are. Isn’t it kind of hypocritical?

I think you need to read the whole post. And no, I do not think it is hypocritical for children to have different standards for parents than vice versa. They are not symmetrical relationships. FWIW I know several Asian people who cut off their parents.

DP. This must be the company you keep. I live in a community with a very large Asian population and I know literally no families with cut off parents.

Maybe they just aren't talking about it! I read a memoir "What My Bones Know" by a young Asian woman. Her abusive parents took off when she was in high school, and she tried to have a relationship with her dad, but in the end she was estranged from both, not necessarily by her choice. She spends some time in the book exploring how Asian immigrant parents pass down their generational trauma.

So the person you "know" is the author of a book?

I posted about book but am DP from the other PP. I do not know the author, but she is a reputable professional who grew up in a majority Asian community in CA, and she talks about her own family as well as families she knew well, and the outcomes for the children who were her peers. So I learned something about people from another place/culture from me, but also, are you shitting me. Are you requiring me or other anonymous Pps to prove there's an estranged Asian person out there, and Iwe know them personally??? Ha!!

Listen, almost no one in my life knows that I have no relationship with my mother. I bet you know a handful of people like me, any race, and they just would never speak about it with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So DS 30's has finally gone into therapy to work on himself, but now he is basically blaming me and my marriage problem/fighting, my religion that I forced on him, my homeschooling, my house rules, etc. All these things caused his mental problems and unhappiness according to his therapist. I have apologized if I contributed but there is not much to be done now. He wrote me a letter about it. It's depressing have all this blame hurled at me, I can't change the past and I wasn't a perfect parent - but we did our best and I thought he had a fairly happy childhood, much better than DH and I. I tried to give him the childhood I wanted as a kid. It's causing me to feel down. No one can hurt you like your kid.

My 35 year old brother did this to my mom recently. Mind you that she was widowed young and did everything in her power to make sure he had a good life. All she every wanted was the best for him. What he said to her was horrible. She was having panic attacks and couldn't be alone, she was so upset. I had to intervene and insist that he stop texting her. It was a nightmare and he was wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So DS 30's has finally gone into therapy to work on himself, but now he is basically blaming me and my marriage problem/fighting, my religion that I forced on him, my homeschooling, my house rules, etc. All these things caused his mental problems and unhappiness according to his therapist. I have apologized if I contributed but there is not much to be done now. He wrote me a letter about it. It's depressing have all this blame hurled at me, I can't change the past and I wasn't a perfect parent - but we did our best and I thought he had a fairly happy childhood, much better than DH and I. I tried to give him the childhood I wanted as a kid. It's causing me to feel down. No one can hurt you like your kid.

My 35 year old brother did this to my mom recently. Mind you that she was widowed young and did everything in her power to make sure he had a good life. All she every wanted was the best for him. What he said to her was horrible. She was having panic attacks and couldn't be alone, she was so upset. I had to intervene and insist that he stop texting her. It was a nightmare and he was wrong.

If your mom had it together so well and your brother is just a sh1thead making sh1t up, why'd she fall apart so easily? Sounds like there's something to what lil brother was saying...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asian. Reading this post makes very sad. This cultural is certainly not very kind to old people. When you guys talk about diversity and inclusion, you only mean lgbt and minority. You don’t extent the same curtesy to old generation, and what they once believed. You don’t stop to think twice that was actually your own history. When you talk about love you the way you are, you don’t really think you should love your parent the way they are. Isn’t it kind of hypocritical?

I think you need to read the whole post. And no, I do not think it is hypocritical for children to have different standards for parents than vice versa. They are not symmetrical relationships. FWIW I know several Asian people who cut off their parents.

DP. This must be the company you keep. I live in a community with a very large Asian population and I know literally no families with cut off parents.

Maybe they just aren't talking about it! I read a memoir "What My Bones Know" by a young Asian woman. Her abusive parents took off when she was in high school, and she tried to have a relationship with her dad, but in the end she was estranged from both, not necessarily by her choice. She spends some time in the book exploring how Asian immigrant parents pass down their generational trauma.

So the person you "know" is the author of a book?

I posted about book but am DP from the other PP. I do not know the author, but she is a reputable professional who grew up in a majority Asian community in CA, and she talks about her own family as well as families she knew well, and the outcomes for the children who were her peers. So I learned something about people from another place/culture from me, but also, are you shitting me. Are you requiring me or other anonymous Pps to prove there's an estranged Asian person out there, and Iwe know them personally??? Ha!!

Listen, almost no one in my life knows that I have no relationship with my mother. I bet you know a handful of people like me, any race, and they just would never speak about it with you.

DP. Estrangement from family is not something that comes up in everyday conversation. Most people use language to avoid saying this directly. Especially Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

What would a 'good' apology look like? Getting down on bended knee at DS feet and apologizing for everything DS didn't like about his upbringing?
Would that solidify DS's belief that his unhappiness is due to his parents choices and not his own? And that DS is not responsible for any of the problems he has in life? Psrents made the problems so they must fix them.

Getting down on bender knee? Your hyperbole makes it difficult to take you seriously. Why can’t OP apologize her poor choices, some of which she can now see are wrong. Why can’t she acknowledge that these choices hurt her child? Why does OP (and apparently you) need an apology need to come with a defense. There is not a person on this 30 page thread who disagrees that the adult must take of his own life at this point. Why do you continue to raise strawmen?

OP says she has apologized. She hasn’t told us how she did it or whether bended knees were involved. She has acknowledged here some of her poor choices. You’re ready to condemn her because she hasn’t painted a picture of abject self-abasement, but in fact we don’t know the details.

Your problem is equating any criticism of OP with "condeming" her, and any attempt to understand her child or see his point of view with "abject self-abasement." Which speaks volumes about your own ability to handle criticism, and hence puts your view of OP's situation into a certain light.

Slightly related, my 40 something dh is going through some things emotionally and trying to make sense of a couple of childhood occurrences. He asked hid mom to fill in the blanks or set the record straight on 2 things. She answered his questions and he thought it was a good talk. He never mentioned to her the horrible fights his parents had, nor the effect they had on him. She called him a week later and asked if he-thought she was a bad mom. He told her she did the best she could (she was a bad mom, imo) and that he was trying to understand why he feels and reacts a certain way when it comes to feeling and expressing emotions. He never blamed or accused her of anything. The next time they spoke, she cried to him about the horrible fights her parents had in front of her and her siblings and how they were scared and cried and hid (dh and sibs did same). Dh now sees and is trying to accept that he cannot have more than a superficial relationship with his mom. He told her he was suffering and she found a way to make it about her and her suffering.

Don't you think that DHs suffering is an extension of his mom's suffering? Her history puts his experience into context. It's like a person that grew up poor and blaming his parents without understanding what brought them into poverty. Just resenting your parents without context is simplistic childish thinking.

I actually see that as his mom trying to share a part of her past which might explain why she is the way she is to give him perspective and understanding so he could work on the reason he reached out to her in the first place. You are completely writing her off and encouraging your husband to do so as well. Why not just listen? You'd listen to your friend talk about their trauma but Mom doesn't get/deserve the same consideration?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

What would a 'good' apology look like? Getting down on bended knee at DS feet and apologizing for everything DS didn't like about his upbringing?
Would that solidify DS's belief that his unhappiness is due to his parents choices and not his own? And that DS is not responsible for any of the problems he has in life? Psrents made the problems so they must fix them.

Getting down on bender knee? Your hyperbole makes it difficult to take you seriously. Why can’t OP apologize her poor choices, some of which she can now see are wrong. Why can’t she acknowledge that these choices hurt her child? Why does OP (and apparently you) need an apology need to come with a defense. There is not a person on this 30 page thread who disagrees that the adult must take of his own life at this point. Why do you continue to raise strawmen?

OP says she has apologized. She hasn’t told us how she did it or whether bended knees were involved. She has acknowledged here some of her poor choices. You’re ready to condemn her because she hasn’t painted a picture of abject self-abasement, but in fact we don’t know the details.

Your problem is equating any criticism of OP with "condeming" her, and any attempt to understand her child or see his point of view with "abject self-abasement." Which speaks volumes about your own ability to handle criticism, and hence puts your view of OP's situation into a certain light.

Slightly related, my 40 something dh is going through some things emotionally and trying to make sense of a couple of childhood occurrences. He asked hid mom to fill in the blanks or set the record straight on 2 things. She answered his questions and he thought it was a good talk. He never mentioned to her the horrible fights his parents had, nor the effect they had on him. She called him a week later and asked if he-thought she was a bad mom. He told her she did the best she could (she was a bad mom, imo) and that he was trying to understand why he feels and reacts a certain way when it comes to feeling and expressing emotions. He never blamed or accused her of anything. The next time they spoke, she cried to him about the horrible fights her parents had in front of her and her siblings and how they were scared and cried and hid (dh and sibs did same). Dh now sees and is trying to accept that he cannot have more than a superficial relationship with his mom. He told her he was suffering and she found a way to make it about her and her suffering.

Don't you think that DHs suffering is an extension of his mom's suffering? Her history puts his experience into context. It's like a person that grew up poor and blaming his parents without understanding what brought them into poverty. Just resenting your parents without context is simplistic childish thinking.

I actually see that as his mom trying to share a part of her past which might explain why she is the way she is to give him perspective and understanding so he could work on the reason he reached out to her in the first place. You are completely writing her off and encouraging your husband to do so as well. Why not just listen? You'd listen to your friend talk about their trauma but Mom doesn't get/deserve the same consideration?

He came to her as a son looking for love and support from his mother. She made it about her and her suffering, which doesn't help her son who is struggling. He decides how/when he interacts with his mother. I do not encourage nor discourage him in this area. Actually, I did encourage him to reach out to her for support. That's when she made it about her. Dh tells me it hurts too much to talk to her right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

What would a 'good' apology look like? Getting down on bended knee at DS feet and apologizing for everything DS didn't like about his upbringing?
Would that solidify DS's belief that his unhappiness is due to his parents choices and not his own? And that DS is not responsible for any of the problems he has in life? Psrents made the problems so they must fix them.

Getting down on bender knee? Your hyperbole makes it difficult to take you seriously. Why can’t OP apologize her poor choices, some of which she can now see are wrong. Why can’t she acknowledge that these choices hurt her child? Why does OP (and apparently you) need an apology need to come with a defense. There is not a person on this 30 page thread who disagrees that the adult must take of his own life at this point. Why do you continue to raise strawmen?

OP says she has apologized. She hasn’t told us how she did it or whether bended knees were involved. She has acknowledged here some of her poor choices. You’re ready to condemn her because she hasn’t painted a picture of abject self-abasement, but in fact we don’t know the details.

Your problem is equating any criticism of OP with "condeming" her, and any attempt to understand her child or see his point of view with "abject self-abasement." Which speaks volumes about your own ability to handle criticism, and hence puts your view of OP's situation into a certain light.

Slightly related, my 40 something dh is going through some things emotionally and trying to make sense of a couple of childhood occurrences. He asked hid mom to fill in the blanks or set the record straight on 2 things. She answered his questions and he thought it was a good talk. He never mentioned to her the horrible fights his parents had, nor the effect they had on him. She called him a week later and asked if he-thought she was a bad mom. He told her she did the best she could (she was a bad mom, imo) and that he was trying to understand why he feels and reacts a certain way when it comes to feeling and expressing emotions. He never blamed or accused her of anything. The next time they spoke, she cried to him about the horrible fights her parents had in front of her and her siblings and how they were scared and cried and hid (dh and sibs did same). Dh now sees and is trying to accept that he cannot have more than a superficial relationship with his mom. He told her he was suffering and she found a way to make it about her and her suffering.

Don't you think that DHs suffering is an extension of his mom's suffering? Her history puts his experience into context. It's like a person that grew up poor and blaming his parents without understanding what brought them into poverty. Just resenting your parents without context is simplistic childish thinking.

I actually see that as his mom trying to share a part of her past which might explain why she is the way she is to give him perspective and understanding so he could work on the reason he reached out to her in the first place. You are completely writing her off and encouraging your husband to do so as well. Why not just listen? You'd listen to your friend talk about their trauma but Mom doesn't get/deserve the same consideration?

This is a really interesting, and I don't know that we owe our parents a supportive ear for their trauma in the way we may want to listen to a friend. Particularly, if the relationship is not a peer-to-peer relationship in other ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It is always the parents fault and I am not being sarcastic.

+1

You choose to have children, you choose ALL the consequences, good and bad. If I’ve learned anything in 51 years I’ve learned that a great many people have zero positive parenting skills without learning them in a structured way, and many people are willing to learn to diaper, feed, clean etc. properly but it never occurs to them to learn anything about the care and feeding of a developing human brain - the part of your child that matters SO MUCH MORE than feeding and cleaning the body that houses their brain. If fact, most people are so full of opinions about correct parenting they are not even open to the suggestions of medical professionals or psychological professionals about those issues, and are instead determined to pass on the intergenerational dysfunction of their own experiences being parented.

Most parents hurt their children in some fashion while raising them, and many parents hurt them profoundly. Most likely the majority of those parents mean well, and have spent oodles of money getting the baby in the first place and acquiring all the physical stuff necessary to give baby a good start. With all the industry around children and childrearing it’s almost funny that we still behave as a society as though the parenting instinct is innate and all that’s really required to succeed in the endeavor. And yet all around us is the evidence of widespread failure yet we plod on as we have always done without any organized effort to rescue children. We go after the obvious cases of physical neglect and abuse and leave aside the millions of cases of psychologically traumatizing parenting.

I almost believe that the core flaw in our species is that our brains have gotten too big, too complex and our innate parenting skills remain limited to those which in most cases ensure the survival of the offspring without promoting the psychological thriving of the offspring. We have so far to go in that regard.

How many kids have you raised? I'm betting zero. You are an armchair quarterback.

It’s funny and sad that you say stuff like this. I bet you even think you’ve made this “gotcha,” when all you’ve done is shown us how emotionally immature you are.

NP. I am curious about the answer to the question, though. It’s a reasonable question even if phrased in a dumb way.

Did you read the post the question was directed at?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel like the parents who think it is unnecessary or messed up to listen to an adult child, validate feelings, etc. might not have great relationships in other realms of their lives? Unless you genuinely think that your relationship with adult children follows a different set of rules, it sounds like all this resistance to basic relationship principles--empathy, self-reflection, genuine care for how the other is feeling, non-defensiveness, etc--aren't something these posters see as valuable or are practiced with.

So maybe t's not a matter of how adults see their adult children, but rather how these commenters approach interpersonal relationships generally. Which shouldn't be surprising; most of us are bad at interpersonal relationships. They are hard.

The parent-child relationship is not like other relationships. The parent puts the child's needs first and the child is front and center in the parents' life. Other relationships don't demand that of us. That CANNOT last forever. But some kids never move on from being the center of the universe. They never see themselves as adults, just like their parents. They're stuck being needy children. Meanwhile the parents are exhausted from all the work of parenting the needy child.

In many relationships, people get caught up with “well what about all I have done for you?” You see this all the time in marriages. It’s like if someone does a lot for the other, they don’t get to point out how something hurt because that means they’re ungrateful. I see the same dynamic happening here. And if you want a good relationship , you can’t believe that your efforts to help the other person means their feelings don’t matter. So this isn’t about how relationships with adult children are different, it’s just lack of skill in relationships generally

DP. You don’t see that happening here because OP has admitted to specific things she regrets doing and she said she’s apologized. Whatever you’re projecting onto OP, just stop already and go deal with your own issues. Talk about inability to stop centering yourself….

That was a poor apology which is a big part of the problem.

What would a 'good' apology look like? Getting down on bended knee at DS feet and apologizing for everything DS didn't like about his upbringing?
Would that solidify DS's belief that his unhappiness is due to his parents choices and not his own? And that DS is not responsible for any of the problems he has in life? Psrents made the problems so they must fix them.

Getting down on bender knee? Your hyperbole makes it difficult to take you seriously. Why can’t OP apologize her poor choices, some of which she can now see are wrong. Why can’t she acknowledge that these choices hurt her child? Why does OP (and apparently you) need an apology need to come with a defense. There is not a person on this 30 page thread who disagrees that the adult must take of his own life at this point. Why do you continue to raise strawmen?

OP says she has apologized. She hasn’t told us how she did it or whether bended knees were involved. She has acknowledged here some of her poor choices. You’re ready to condemn her because she hasn’t painted a picture of abject self-abasement, but in fact we don’t know the details.

Your problem is equating any criticism of OP with "condeming" her, and any attempt to understand her child or see his point of view with "abject self-abasement." Which speaks volumes about your own ability to handle criticism, and hence puts your view of OP's situation into a certain light.

Slightly related, my 40 something dh is going through some things emotionally and trying to make sense of a couple of childhood occurrences. He asked hid mom to fill in the blanks or set the record straight on 2 things. She answered his questions and he thought it was a good talk. He never mentioned to her the horrible fights his parents had, nor the effect they had on him. She called him a week later and asked if he-thought she was a bad mom. He told her she did the best she could (she was a bad mom, imo) and that he was trying to understand why he feels and reacts a certain way when it comes to feeling and expressing emotions. He never blamed or accused her of anything. The next time they spoke, she cried to him about the horrible fights her parents had in front of her and her siblings and how they were scared and cried and hid (dh and sibs did same). Dh now sees and is trying to accept that he cannot have more than a superficial relationship with his mom. He told her he was suffering and she found a way to make it about her and her suffering.

Don't you think that DHs suffering is an extension of his mom's suffering? Her history puts his experience into context. It's like a person that grew up poor and blaming his parents without understanding what brought them into poverty. Just resenting your parents without context is simplistic childish thinking.

I actually see that as his mom trying to share a part of her past which might explain why she is the way she is to give him perspective and understanding so he could work on the reason he reached out to her in the first place. You are completely writing her off and encouraging your husband to do so as well. Why not just listen? You'd listen to your friend talk about their trauma but Mom doesn't get/deserve the same consideration?

This is a really interesting, and I don't know that we owe our parents a supportive ear for their trauma in the way we may want to listen to a friend. Particularly, if the relationship is not a peer-to-peer relationship in other ways.

Yes. Parents going to kids for comfort from their traumas is parentification, which is abusive. An explanation like "My mother screamed at me, and I unfortunately didn't learn better not to scream at my own children" seems OK enough, as long it is delivered in a factual, neutral way. Parents ideally are strong and in charge. If they messed up, they need to own it without needing sympathy or comfort from the children they hurt with their ignorant and/or abusive behavior.