Can I charge my hourly rate for helping parent?

[Anonymous]

Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t really understand how the siblings have any say in this at all. The father appears to be of sound mind and is in agreement that OP should be paid this amount in this manner. This is an arrangement between the two of them. Until the father dies, it is his money to spend as he wishes. He could give OP any amount of money, and the siblings wouldn’t really have any legal leg to stand on in protesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t really understand how the siblings have any say in this at all. The father appears to be of sound mind and is in agreement that OP should be paid this amount in this manner. This is an arrangement between the two of them. Until the father dies, it is his money to spend as he wishes. He could give OP any amount of money, and the siblings wouldn’t really have any legal leg to stand on in protesting.

+100
And when he dies he may leave all the money to the child who helped him (and was paid for it) or none to the child who helped him (because she was paid for it). Or equal. We just don't know. What is fair is that OP is being reimbursed for the opportunity costs now. She is smart to get it set up and get paid for it now since she is losing wages and vacation time and her family is taking a concrete hit in finances vs. other siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your sibling has no standing to sue. NONE whatsoever.

Please pay yourself honestly, if your father agrees and this is something you really need.

I will note that for most of the middle class, adult children would never dream of making their parents pay for their help. I have never actually heard of such an arrangement as yours. My best friend and her husband and teen spent multiple weeks sorting through their mother's stuff before moving her to assisted living, paying for sundries, etc... and none of that labor was paid.

I find your nickel and diming a little distasteful, but if you're desperately in need of money, and it makes your father have a more attentive and willing helper... sure, go ahead.

I am worried about getting sued by my sibling, too! I am so glad you started this thread. I've begun tracking all the tasks associated with clearing items out, moving, selling the house, reviewing/signing contracts, managing payments for medicine, communication with nursing staff and doctors, paying hospital bills, overseeing the finances, opening new accounts, determining how to invest the home sale money, attending settlement (after reviewing all of the paperwork), meeting with the real estate agent, all the meetings with various contractors to prep the home for sale, and on and on, buying them grocery treats (they like cookies), etc, etc.

Like you, OP, I do not charge for visiting my parent, which happens on top of all the other stuff.

I would like to reimburse myself. Parent has said they wished there was a way they could give me more money. The way they said it was not quite right because they meant they wished they could leave more money to me since I do 90% of the work.

However, I have also made financial sacrifices to help this parent while the other sibling continues to get to work and save their money, have time for themselves, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your sibling has no standing to sue. NONE whatsoever.

Please pay yourself honestly, if your father agrees and this is something you really need.

I will note that for most of the middle class, adult children would never dream of making their parents pay for their help. I have never actually heard of such an arrangement as yours. My best friend and her husband and teen spent multiple weeks sorting through their mother's stuff before moving her to assisted living, paying for sundries, etc... and none of that labor was paid.

I find your nickel and diming a little distasteful, but if you're desperately in need of money, and it makes your father have a more attentive and willing helper... sure, go ahead.

You are probably very rich and drive a Tesla. Not all of us are so wealthy that the unpaid time is something we can swing long term.

[Anonymous]

At my job you can use sick time to take care of family appointments and health things. You shouldn't need to charge your rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP and my involved sibling and I would gladly hire out someone to do all the tasks I do for $25-30 an hour but like I said it isn’t caring for him it doing all the endless tasks that need doing that requires some particular knowledge.

All these people who think you can just hire someone for $25 an hour to manage an elderly person’s life are people who have never had to do the heavy lifting of trying to cancel internet and landline of an elderly person who can’t remember their PIN number. You have to sit there for over an hour trying to actually reach a person to cancel or they continue getting bills.

You think you can hire someone at that rate who can then hire movers, find people to take a bunch of stuff to goodwill, other stuff to trash. Then go to bank and get cash to pay some of these people. Change address on newspapers, and so many other things.

Please tell me who is going to the ER at 11 pm when your someone falls or has COVID and you have to advocate and speak to the doctor.

It’s hard to find someone who drives and who can pick up elderly person, sit there at the doctors office to make sure they are giving actual medical history, understand if they need to see a specialist, coordinate that apt, set up the next apt, check to see if there are outstanding balances, pick up medication at pharmacy and then drive person back to their house or assisted living.

So how is the sibling 1,000 miles away going to magically hire a person that does all that? That’s why that sibling was the one who suggested it and our father tells me all the time he wants to write me a check for all I do, for gas money, etc. I should have been taking him up on his offer but haven’t in the 7 years since our mother died.

I don’t want a penny of inheritance, I just realized how much financially I am losing out while one sibling does absolutely nothing.

And thinking about it I am not even counting all the hours my spouse and teenage kids have spent helping him out. My oldest child drives and I just realized for the past year I have been occasionally saying - after school swing by grocery store to get some cough drops, toilet paper, milk, etc. for your grandfather. Each purchase is probably under $10 so my kid feels bad asking their grandpa for the money. I thought they were getting reimbursed but they just told me they never have been.

It'll save you time if you order that grocery store stuff online and use grandpa's card. That will save your teen the trip and save you from paying (or from your teen paying) for grandpa's items.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Scary how may posts there are of people who condone stealing from their elderly parents and finding ways to take their money. It is unfortunately a big issue with the elderly. They are frequently victims of family abuse.

OPs dad should prepare an itemized list of every minute of time he ever spent doing anything for her or her family and any money that was ever spent on her or her family over her lifetime and charge her for it at an equal rate of $80 an hour.

So you are cool with the sibling who does nothing? Maybe OP should also start doing nothing.

Then, guess what? Her dad will have to hire someone and pay them to do the work.

OP--Ignore these bozos who never did all the work. They have no idea. If someone has not cleaned up poop explosions, sat in the ER for 13 hours straight, managed numerous doctors and follow up appts, visited multiple ALs to find the right one, done the taxes and on and on, then they should not speak a word here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Scary how may posts there are of people who condone stealing from their elderly parents and finding ways to take their money. It is unfortunately a big issue with the elderly. They are frequently victims of family abuse.

OPs dad should prepare an itemized list of every minute of time he ever spent doing anything for her or her family and any money that was ever spent on her or her family over her lifetime and charge her for it at an equal rate of $80 an hour.

So you are cool with the sibling who does nothing? Maybe OP should also start doing nothing.

Then, guess what? Her dad will have to hire someone and pay them to do the work.

OP--Ignore these bozos who never did all the work. They have no idea. If someone has not cleaned up poop explosions, sat in the ER for 13 hours straight, managed numerous doctors and follow up appts, visited multiple ALs to find the right one, done the taxes and on and on, then they should not speak a word here.

You could be right, but history and exactness matter.

We have no idea if the parent already gave OP more time and money than their other siblings. Many times the “helping” sibling also received more of the parent’s time and financial generosity. It happens a lot that they don’t see it that way later.

We only have OP’s description of providing substantial caregiving, which by her own account is not exactly what’s being provided. Caregiving typically refers to activities of daily living, which sounds more like what you were providing. Hiring movers, picking up milk at Target, talking to potential facilities’ staff, and helping a parent throw things away and prepare for moving are not the same.

OP’s parent is now in assisted living, so she now can get the POA while her parent is still able to agree to it of their own volition.

If there will be no need of Medicaid, then maybe the large gifts to her will not be an issue.

But referring to being paid for “caregiving” that is not actually being provided in the normal sense could cause issues down the road. Saying she’s owed the money is also often considered a red flag. This is why it would be wise for her to consult with an eldercare attorney.

Some of the advice from the people you’re calling bozos is intended to protect OP as well.

[Anonymous]

We only have OP’s description of providing substantial caregiving, which by her own account is not exactly what’s being provided. Caregiving typically refers to activities of daily living, which sounds more like what you were providing. Hiring movers, picking up milk at Target, talking to potential facilities’ staff, and helping a parent throw things away and prepare for moving are not the same.

Until you have done this, as I have had to do for a parent with dementia, you dont really understand how much time it can take. I do not shower my mother (though I have and cleaned up sh&t) or do her laundry anymore, as she is now in memory care, but the organization of her finances and life, her many doctors' appointments (and because she has dementia, this is not something I could outsource as she could not fill out any paperwork); multiple hours long ER and urgent care visits; dealing with insurance, medicare, etc; and buying everything she needs, from clothing to diapers/wipes, to an eczema cream; and of course unwinding all the accounts and downsizing out of her home (the OP's description of trying to cancel an account is spot on).

I have pretty much stopped medical appointments at this point in dementia, but until this year, she would have them almost weekly. An appointment at 2 meant leaving work at noon. Getting to my mom's at 12:30. Even though I had spoken with her multiple times about being ready, still took her 30 minutes to get into the car. Get to the doctors at 1:30. She has limited mobility but I can't leave her in front of the building and park because last time I did that she wandered away. So I park and even the handicapped spots (I finally did get a pass to use with her) are, for her, a 10 min minimum walk to the doctors. We get there and they dont see us until 2:45. We are done by 3:15. Then it takes her 20 minutes to go to the bathroom. I get her back to her place at 4, and take her upstairs, get her settled in, then have to find the nursing office to make sure they have the new RX (and will have to follow up the next day), so I finally leave and at home at 5, just in time to drive my kids to after school activities. It was exhausting, but also really impacted my work, and I would have to try to catch up nights/weekends as so much of what I do is deadline driven. so yeah, my job is "flexible" in terms of leaving or taking off hours, but not in terms of when I have to turn in deliverables. It also takes time away from my own kids, health, etc. Aside from "social" visits, I was spending an average of 10 hours a week on my mom's care, and that does not include the 3 weeks I took off (my full vacation for the year) to downsize her. ANd that was not "helping her thrown thigns away," she was completely incapable at that point of making decisions, and had been scammed of hundreds of thousands of dollars, while my sibling was supposedly overseeing her finances. That's when I stepped in.

The other thing that doesn't get mentioned here is how often women are the caretakers. When my mom first received the diagnosis of Alzheimers, she was so upset. And she said something in front of the doctor to me--"I hate how much of a burden this has been and will be on you." And the (male) doctor's response was "that's what daughters are for." I was SO PISSED. But of course, in my case, my brother hasn't lifted a finger. I had to move my mom across the country so that I could make sure she got the care she needed, while he does whatever he wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We only have OP’s description of providing substantial caregiving, which by her own account is not exactly what’s being provided. Caregiving typically refers to activities of daily living, which sounds more like what you were providing. Hiring movers, picking up milk at Target, talking to potential facilities’ staff, and helping a parent throw things away and prepare for moving are not the same.

Until you have done this, as I have had to do for a parent with dementia, you dont really understand how much time it can take. I do not shower my mother (though I have and cleaned up sh&t) or do her laundry anymore, as she is now in memory care, but the organization of her finances and life, her many doctors' appointments (and because she has dementia, this is not something I could outsource as she could not fill out any paperwork); multiple hours long ER and urgent care visits; dealing with insurance, medicare, etc; and buying everything she needs, from clothing to diapers/wipes, to an eczema cream; and of course unwinding all the accounts and downsizing out of her home (the OP's description of trying to cancel an account is spot on).

I have pretty much stopped medical appointments at this point in dementia, but until this year, she would have them almost weekly. An appointment at 2 meant leaving work at noon. Getting to my mom's at 12:30. Even though I had spoken with her multiple times about being ready, still took her 30 minutes to get into the car. Get to the doctors at 1:30. She has limited mobility but I can't leave her in front of the building and park because last time I did that she wandered away. So I park and even the handicapped spots (I finally did get a pass to use with her) are, for her, a 10 min minimum walk to the doctors. We get there and they dont see us until 2:45. We are done by 3:15. Then it takes her 20 minutes to go to the bathroom. I get her back to her place at 4, and take her upstairs, get her settled in, then have to find the nursing office to make sure they have the new RX (and will have to follow up the next day), so I finally leave and at home at 5, just in time to drive my kids to after school activities. It was exhausting, but also really impacted my work, and I would have to try to catch up nights/weekends as so much of what I do is deadline driven. so yeah, my job is "flexible" in terms of leaving or taking off hours, but not in terms of when I have to turn in deliverables. It also takes time away from my own kids, health, etc. Aside from "social" visits, I was spending an average of 10 hours a week on my mom's care, and that does not include the 3 weeks I took off (my full vacation for the year) to downsize her. ANd that was not "helping her thrown thigns away," she was completely incapable at that point of making decisions, and had been scammed of hundreds of thousands of dollars, while my sibling was supposedly overseeing her finances. That's when I stepped in.

The other thing that doesn't get mentioned here is how often women are the caretakers. When my mom first received the diagnosis of Alzheimers, she was so upset. And she said something in front of the doctor to me--"I hate how much of a burden this has been and will be on you." And the (male) doctor's response was "that's what daughters are for." I was SO PISSED. But of course, in my case, my brother hasn't lifted a finger. I had to move my mom across the country so that I could make sure she got the care she needed, while he does whatever he wants.

That sounds very difficult, and yes, there needs to be more understanding and societal discussion of how more assistance of this type can be provided for aging parents who need it, without completely taking over the lives of their adult children.

OP’s question was to find out how she could be paid her work rate for her efforts in caring for her parent, including retroactively. Because she is not providing dementia care or daily caregiving, differentiating between gifts and income is particularly important, especially without any POAs established. She really needs to speak with a professional to sort things through, moving forward.

[Anonymous]

Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t really understand how the siblings have any say in this at all. The father appears to be of sound mind and is in agreement that OP should be paid this amount in this manner. This is an arrangement between the two of them. Until the father dies, it is his money to spend as he wishes. He could give OP any amount of money, and the siblings wouldn’t really have any legal leg to stand on in protesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your sibling has no standing to sue. NONE whatsoever.

Please pay yourself honestly, if your father agrees and this is something you really need.

I will note that for most of the middle class, adult children would never dream of making their parents pay for their help. I have never actually heard of such an arrangement as yours. My best friend and her husband and teen spent multiple weeks sorting through their mother's stuff before moving her to assisted living, paying for sundries, etc... and none of that labor was paid.

I find your nickel and diming a little distasteful, but if you're desperately in need of money, and it makes your father have a more attentive and willing helper... sure, go ahead.

You are probably very rich and drive a Tesla. Not all of us are so wealthy that the unpaid time is something we can swing long term.

You aren't exactly poor. For as much as she's charging, Dad can hire someone for $25 an hour who will not resent it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP and my involved sibling and I would gladly hire out someone to do all the tasks I do for $25-30 an hour but like I said it isn’t caring for him it doing all the endless tasks that need doing that requires some particular knowledge.

All these people who think you can just hire someone for $25 an hour to manage an elderly person’s life are people who have never had to do the heavy lifting of trying to cancel internet and landline of an elderly person who can’t remember their PIN number. You have to sit there for over an hour trying to actually reach a person to cancel or they continue getting bills.

You think you can hire someone at that rate who can then hire movers, find people to take a bunch of stuff to goodwill, other stuff to trash. Then go to bank and get cash to pay some of these people. Change address on newspapers, and so many other things.

Please tell me who is going to the ER at 11 pm when your someone falls or has COVID and you have to advocate and speak to the doctor.

It’s hard to find someone who drives and who can pick up elderly person, sit there at the doctors office to make sure they are giving actual medical history, understand if they need to see a specialist, coordinate that apt, set up the next apt, check to see if there are outstanding balances, pick up medication at pharmacy and then drive person back to their house or assisted living.

So how is the sibling 1,000 miles away going to magically hire a person that does all that? That’s why that sibling was the one who suggested it and our father tells me all the time he wants to write me a check for all I do, for gas money, etc. I should have been taking him up on his offer but haven’t in the 7 years since our mother died.

I don’t want a penny of inheritance, I just realized how much financially I am losing out while one sibling does absolutely nothing.

And thinking about it I am not even counting all the hours my spouse and teenage kids have spent helping him out. My oldest child drives and I just realized for the past year I have been occasionally saying - after school swing by grocery store to get some cough drops, toilet paper, milk, etc. for your grandfather. Each purchase is probably under $10 so my kid feels bad asking their grandpa for the money. I thought they were getting reimbursed but they just told me they never have been.

Yes, someone can do it for $25 an hour. This is not a skilled job. I could not imagine charging my MIL and she lived with us for a year and I was her full time caregiver.

You say that in isolation as someone who has never actually had to hire someone for this. Even if you are paying $25/hour (which actually isn’t realistic in the DMV), you have to pay that rate for a guaranteed number of hours per day and then far higher rates for after hours and weekends.

Our siblings agreed to have our parents pay one of our underemployed siblings $3000/month for all these tasks and it was $100/hour some months and more like $10/hour other months based on the amount of time and effort in any particular month.

This allowed our parents to stay in their home and save around $200k per year vs going into assisted living.

You can hire someone 6 hours a week or a reasonable amount. This is insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t really understand how the siblings have any say in this at all. The father appears to be of sound mind and is in agreement that OP should be paid this amount in this manner. This is an arrangement between the two of them. Until the father dies, it is his money to spend as he wishes. He could give OP any amount of money, and the siblings wouldn’t really have any legal leg to stand on in protesting.

Yes, up to a point. That could work well in families where everyone is in agreement, which does not appear to be the case in OP’s situation. And because OP is not POA, is commingling her funds at times with her parent’s, and is trying to be paid an income of thousands for work that is not typically qualified as caregiving, it can get thorny fast. A lot also depends on the parent’s age, health, and financial status. What happens if her parent runs out of money in three years?

This is why OP should really be discussing the options and details specific to her parent’s financial and health situation with professionals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We only have OP’s description of providing substantial caregiving, which by her own account is not exactly what’s being provided. Caregiving typically refers to activities of daily living, which sounds more like what you were providing. Hiring movers, picking up milk at Target, talking to potential facilities’ staff, and helping a parent throw things away and prepare for moving are not the same.

Until you have done this, as I have had to do for a parent with dementia, you dont really understand how much time it can take. I do not shower my mother (though I have and cleaned up sh&t) or do her laundry anymore, as she is now in memory care, but the organization of her finances and life, her many doctors' appointments (and because she has dementia, this is not something I could outsource as she could not fill out any paperwork); multiple hours long ER and urgent care visits; dealing with insurance, medicare, etc; and buying everything she needs, from clothing to diapers/wipes, to an eczema cream; and of course unwinding all the accounts and downsizing out of her home (the OP's description of trying to cancel an account is spot on).

I have pretty much stopped medical appointments at this point in dementia, but until this year, she would have them almost weekly. An appointment at 2 meant leaving work at noon. Getting to my mom's at 12:30. Even though I had spoken with her multiple times about being ready, still took her 30 minutes to get into the car. Get to the doctors at 1:30. She has limited mobility but I can't leave her in front of the building and park because last time I did that she wandered away. So I park and even the handicapped spots (I finally did get a pass to use with her) are, for her, a 10 min minimum walk to the doctors. We get there and they dont see us until 2:45. We are done by 3:15. Then it takes her 20 minutes to go to the bathroom. I get her back to her place at 4, and take her upstairs, get her settled in, then have to find the nursing office to make sure they have the new RX (and will have to follow up the next day), so I finally leave and at home at 5, just in time to drive my kids to after school activities. It was exhausting, but also really impacted my work, and I would have to try to catch up nights/weekends as so much of what I do is deadline driven. so yeah, my job is "flexible" in terms of leaving or taking off hours, but not in terms of when I have to turn in deliverables. It also takes time away from my own kids, health, etc. Aside from "social" visits, I was spending an average of 10 hours a week on my mom's care, and that does not include the 3 weeks I took off (my full vacation for the year) to downsize her. ANd that was not "helping her thrown thigns away," she was completely incapable at that point of making decisions, and had been scammed of hundreds of thousands of dollars, while my sibling was supposedly overseeing her finances. That's when I stepped in.

The other thing that doesn't get mentioned here is how often women are the caretakers. When my mom first received the diagnosis of Alzheimers, she was so upset. And she said something in front of the doctor to me--"I hate how much of a burden this has been and will be on you." And the (male) doctor's response was "that's what daughters are for." I was SO PISSED. But of course, in my case, my brother hasn't lifted a finger. I had to move my mom across the country so that I could make sure she got the care she needed, while he does whatever he wants.

Thus is OP. Thank you for writing this! Sorry you are going through the same thing.

This is a great explanation. People don’t understand a medical appointment takes hours! It’s not the actual appointment -that part is easy peasy. It’s getting the parent moving along. Often they haven’t showed or changed, it’s then getting them out the door (they can’t find keys to lock door, can’t find wallet, etc.) then and yes- the parking!

Lately I have been so stressed I have been taking one kid out of their last period early (luckily a really easy subject where they have an A+) because there is often no parking nearby even handicap parking. So I can leave my high schooler and my dad in front of building while I park far away.

Yup then all the added stuff. And you were spot on of course I’m the daughter.

As it is working full time with a husband and two high school kids, pets, no maid or gardener I can barely keep my life organized. I need ti declutter my house and organize but have didnt weeks and countless hours dealing up my dad’s house.

The stress is something no amount of money is worth. The overall toll this has taken on my health, my relationship with my spouse, the time away from my kids has been horrendous.