Can I charge my hourly rate for helping parent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your sibling has no standing to sue. NONE whatsoever.

Please pay yourself honestly, if your father agrees and this is something you really need.

I will note that for most of the middle class, adult children would never dream of making their parents pay for their help. I have never actually heard of such an arrangement as yours. My best friend and her husband and teen spent multiple weeks sorting through their mother's stuff before moving her to assisted living, paying for sundries, etc... and none of that labor was paid.

I find your nickel and diming a little distasteful, but if you're desperately in need of money, and it makes your father have a more attentive and willing helper... sure, go ahead.

You’ve got to be kidding, PP. The OP is suffering lost income. Why should she foot that bill to the benefit of the do-nothing sibling(s)?? This is a way for her to be recognized by their father for the extra care and time she is devoting, while at least one of her siblings does absolutely nothing. As a parent, I’d want to reward my child for making extra sacrifices beyond what the other children are doing. And as a parent, I’d feel like less of a burden and less like someone just taking taking taking from my child. It would feel good to give something back. And OP’s father can apparently afford to do just that.

This isn’t doing the dad’s taxes. This is ongoing, substantial, detailed, hard and sometimes exhausting work. If you haven’t been there, you can have no idea what it’s like.

+1 This exactly. You can stfu, previous PP if you haven't been there. I have a dear friend whose time is consumed by taking care of both elderly parents, one with dementia and one fragile. She had to retire early and she "pays herself" which means that her parents agreed and have the means and are deeply appreciative. (They even gave her a car and include gas money!). Her sibling is relieved and agrees to the arrangement.

Of course we all do this out of the goodness of our hearts too, but this is a job we are talking about. There's no reason not to earn income if all/most parties agree. Would you work for free?

But at $80/hr? Is the nice sibling OK with that? Unless OP's father is wealthy, it's going to make a significant dent in his inheritance and at the end, maybe both siblings of OP will be bitter.

In principle, I agree with compensation for the sibling who is working for their elderly parent. The way my in-laws have set this up, the sibling who is doing the most care is getting a larger chunk of the inheritance. But if we start to get into counting hours and dollars... I think that opens the door to nitpicking later.

Who cares if siblings are bitter? The dad is alive and is choosing to compensate his very generous and caring daughter for part of the time she gives him to care for him. They are not doing any caregiving, so they need to get over feeling entitled to his money.

And the people who are nickel and dining OP over it being $80/hr…you think the level of care a daughter provides is even remotely comparable to what you’d get from someone on Care.com for $20/hr? Give me a break! It’s absolutely worth 4x that if that’s the income she’s giving up to do it, and she is trusted and reliable. If he can afford it, why not?

She isn't generous or caring - she is charging him. There is zero generosity or care. It is a business transaction and a way for her to make money. Generous and caring would be helping out for free because you love your father. And her father doesn't really have a choice - if he wants to see his family, he needs to pay up. Otherwise he would be on his own with no one. She even charges him for the kids to visit.

[Anonymous]

keep a credit card of his for your use for his things, and you or your other sibling pay the bill with his money.

i have two siblings and everyone helps in their own way. i pay bills and manage and take her to appointments. my brother helps with house needs (a/c is broken, taking care of getting the house painted, etc.). my sister talks to her on the phone all the time (she lives far away) and sends her snacks and things she needs.

i have her CC to use. my sister should, too, but she doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP- another vote to not listen to the bozos. It's so freaking easy to just hire a carer (who is responsible and can drive and always shows up for everything) for just $25. And how many or few hours they can pick up as of course they are perfectly elastic in their availability. Just waiting around for the exact hours you need them for. And they don't need to be managed at all... So Easy!!!

Op Again. Exactly. Thank you. I don't want to manage anyone. I can't even get it together to get a weekly cleaning service. Someone has to be in charge of the hiring, managing, paying, etc. Who magically is going to do that. And how many caregivers drive and can just be sitting around on call?

Someone please tell me who can gather all the tax documents that are needed and send to the accountant to pay taxes for $25 an hour. To take phone calls from doctors, assisted living, etc. And don't get me started on extended family members who can't reach my dad because he forgets to charge his phone so they start calling me. Who can I pay to sift through boxes of documents to make sure important documents don't get shredded and all the others one do get shredded?

It is often like a game of chicken and which sibling caves and ends up getting stuck doing all these tasks. And once you start you can't seem to step away.

You are so dramatic. Please hire someone to care for your parent. You are not the answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, hire help if its such a burden. Stop being greedy.

This. You can charge caregiver rate, not what you would have earned in your day job!

Don’t be surprised when your other sibling pushes back. You can hire help for much less!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your sibling has no standing to sue. NONE whatsoever.

Please pay yourself honestly, if your father agrees and this is something you really need.

I will note that for most of the middle class, adult children would never dream of making their parents pay for their help. I have never actually heard of such an arrangement as yours. My best friend and her husband and teen spent multiple weeks sorting through their mother's stuff before moving her to assisted living, paying for sundries, etc... and none of that labor was paid.

I find your nickel and diming a little distasteful, but if you're desperately in need of money, and it makes your father have a more attentive and willing helper... sure, go ahead.

You’ve got to be kidding, PP. The OP is suffering lost income. Why should she foot that bill to the benefit of the do-nothing sibling(s)?? This is a way for her to be recognized by their father for the extra care and time she is devoting, while at least one of her siblings does absolutely nothing. As a parent, I’d want to reward my child for making extra sacrifices beyond what the other children are doing. And as a parent, I’d feel like less of a burden and less like someone just taking taking taking from my child. It would feel good to give something back. And OP’s father can apparently afford to do just that.

This isn’t doing the dad’s taxes. This is ongoing, substantial, detailed, hard and sometimes exhausting work. If you haven’t been there, you can have no idea what it’s like.

+1 This exactly. You can stfu, previous PP if you haven't been there. I have a dear friend whose time is consumed by taking care of both elderly parents, one with dementia and one fragile. She had to retire early and she "pays herself" which means that her parents agreed and have the means and are deeply appreciative. (They even gave her a car and include gas money!). Her sibling is relieved and agrees to the arrangement.

Of course we all do this out of the goodness of our hearts too, but this is a job we are talking about. There's no reason not to earn income if all/most parties agree. Would you work for free?

But at $80/hr? Is the nice sibling OK with that? Unless OP's father is wealthy, it's going to make a significant dent in his inheritance and at the end, maybe both siblings of OP will be bitter.

In principle, I agree with compensation for the sibling who is working for their elderly parent. The way my in-laws have set this up, the sibling who is doing the most care is getting a larger chunk of the inheritance. But if we start to get into counting hours and dollars... I think that opens the door to nitpicking later.

Who cares if siblings are bitter? The dad is alive and is choosing to compensate his very generous and caring daughter for part of the time she gives him to care for him. They are not doing any caregiving, so they need to get over feeling entitled to his money.

And the people who are nickel and dining OP over it being $80/hr…you think the level of care a daughter provides is even remotely comparable to what you’d get from someone on Care.com for $20/hr? Give me a break! It’s absolutely worth 4x that if that’s the income she’s giving up to do it, and she is trusted and reliable. If he can afford it, why not?

She isn't generous or caring - she is charging him. There is zero generosity or care. It is a business transaction and a way for her to make money. Generous and caring would be helping out for free because you love your father. And her father doesn't really have a choice - if he wants to see his family, he needs to pay up. Otherwise he would be on his own with no one. She even charges him for the kids to visit.

I don’t see anywhere that she charges him for the kids to visit. She’s charging him for when she has to take time off; that’s fair. And it is STILL incredibly kind and generous. Would her dad rather be sitting in a car and then waiting room and then talking to his urologist around a stranger with too much perfume who makes him feel awkward and can barely speak the language? If he can afford $80/hr, I’m sure it a huge load off him feeling like a burden and that he is hurting her financially by accepting so much help.

It’s STILl burdensome, uncomfortable, stressful, and unrelenting to be a primarily elder care caregiver even if he replaces some of her income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your sibling has no standing to sue. NONE whatsoever.

Please pay yourself honestly, if your father agrees and this is something you really need.

I will note that for most of the middle class, adult children would never dream of making their parents pay for their help. I have never actually heard of such an arrangement as yours. My best friend and her husband and teen spent multiple weeks sorting through their mother's stuff before moving her to assisted living, paying for sundries, etc... and none of that labor was paid.

I find your nickel and diming a little distasteful, but if you're desperately in need of money, and it makes your father have a more attentive and willing helper... sure, go ahead.

+1

Also, the hourly rate should reflect what a caregiver would charge, not what your profession does. As a lawyer I bill at $300/hour but would never charge that rate for caregiver tasks, if indeed I charged anything for that.

Not OP, but wow is this an elitist and privileged response. Do you understand that because you bill at $300 an hour you have a huge salary and it's likely not as big a sacrifice to take off and help? Shame on you for trying to guilt trip OP. As someone who did an insane amount for free, I think OP has every right to charge the amount she is used to making and I hope she doesn't make the same mistakes I did.

Caring is not worht 80 an hour and its a money grab. Hire help if that much help is needed. I did it for free and I couldn't imagine taking money from a relative.

So you are rich, are supported by a spouse or were the sibling who did the least.

+1

Exactly. Working for free means someone is supporting you somehow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, hire help if its such a burden. Stop being greedy.

This. You can charge caregiver rate, not what you would have earned in your day job!

Don’t be surprised when your other sibling pushes back. You can hire help for much less!

The other sibling?? Usually, a brother does not do anything. I’ve seen the complaints here.

If sibling does not like what the caregiving sibling charges, then sibling can do the work.

[Anonymous]

It is interesting how many people in the thread are against charging, but paying people to haul junk and declutter can cost hundreds of dollars for not very much.

So, it sounds like those of us who do this work should just hire the work out. Our parents can pay someone else and that will be acceptable to those in the thread…

My parents expected me to haul their mountains of junk out. I boxed their trash and junk and did more than 100 dumpster trips in addition to hiring junk haulers at least four times.

It’s rude and crazy that people don’t do a death cleaning when they are still able to do it.

I would never leave so much junk for my children and have already stated to get rid of things and/or to mark what can be tossed (if it is something I want to keep while alive).

We have selfish parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is interesting how many people in the thread are against charging, but paying people to haul junk and declutter can cost hundreds of dollars for not very much.

So, it sounds like those of us who do this work should just hire the work out. Our parents can pay someone else and that will be acceptable to those in the thread…

My parents expected me to haul their mountains of junk out. I boxed their trash and junk and did more than 100 dumpster trips in addition to hiring junk haulers at least four times.

It’s rude and crazy that people don’t do a death cleaning when they are still able to do it.

I would never leave so much junk for my children and have already stated to get rid of things and/or to mark what can be tossed (if it is something I want to keep while alive).

We have selfish parents.

Yes, it's so sad. I helped my parents for years for free at the expense of my job and sanity. I didn't mind so much for dad, but mom was abusive, entitled and unappreciative. When I finally had to back away for my own health and outsource, OMG the complaints about the expense. Yes, it's expensive to get people to cater to you and do this work. People are living longer so after all the years I put in there was no end in site and it got to the point mom was in better health than I was and determined to take advantage. She punished me or at least threw so many financial threats at me which is fine, because if I continued my free labor for likely another decade she would have continued the threats and and my health and sanity are priceless. Strangely enough other siblings did not step forward, yet they shamed me for no longer providing free labor. Not only did my health improve when I stepped back, but my family life improved and I got unexpected financial gains at work multiple times because I was no longer burned out and could focus.

I do believe if the person is making financial sacrifices they should be paid, though i could do not accept money. Sadly though I think in dysfunctional families you are better off just outsourcing because people will judge and make false claims. Let them try that on hired help and see how fast the person quits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you going to declare that as income on your tax return?

Transparency: ensure both siblings and your father are on the same email thread confirming the agreement, the justification for you getting paid, and the process going forward. Then let both siblings see copies of your monthly invoices, again in an email that is sent to your sibling and your dad. This will show your dad was aware and consenting from the beginning.

If you can side chay your nice sibling to respond first to the initial email, saying what a great idea it is and how much you deserve both pay and thanks for looking after your father, that would help! Then other sibling may feel pressure to just agree it’s a good idea.

Transparency is the key with this. One of my sibling-in-law does all the heavy lifting regarding their mother. She has the time to do this, but decided to not pursue additional work in the future in order to devote time to caregiving. The only negative feelings from other sibs came about when she and the Mom were not forthcoming about these payments going on for at least a year. Now that it is all transparent and understood everyone is on board and understands her time is worth xx amount. No one else lives near enough to help out on this type of basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you going to declare that as income on your tax return?

Transparency: ensure both siblings and your father are on the same email thread confirming the agreement, the justification for you getting paid, and the process going forward. Then let both siblings see copies of your monthly invoices, again in an email that is sent to your sibling and your dad. This will show your dad was aware and consenting from the beginning.

If you can side chay your nice sibling to respond first to the initial email, saying what a great idea it is and how much you deserve both pay and thanks for looking after your father, that would help! Then other sibling may feel pressure to just agree it’s a good idea.

Transparency is the key with this. One of my sibling-in-law does all the heavy lifting regarding their mother. She has the time to do this, but decided to not pursue additional work in the future in order to devote time to caregiving. The only negative feelings from other sibs came about when she and the Mom were not forthcoming about these payments going on for at least a year. Now that it is all transparent and understood everyone is on board and understands her time is worth xx amount. No one else lives near enough to help out on this type of basis.

Agreed...though in our family we siblings were the ones pushing for the caregiver sibling to get paid and effectively "forced" our parents to do it. They really didn't put up much of a fight, but it's just sort of a reflexive kind of negative response, though they quickly relented when we explained the alternatives.

It's an absolute no-brainer to pay a sibling vs. putting parents in Assisted Living or nursing care or paying for outside help. It easily saved the estate like $500,000 after paying the sibling, who agreed to just a fixed monthly payment (which in some months worked out to $100/hour and in other months worked out to like $10/hour).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your sibling has no standing to sue. NONE whatsoever.

Please pay yourself honestly, if your father agrees and this is something you really need.

I will note that for most of the middle class, adult children would never dream of making their parents pay for their help. I have never actually heard of such an arrangement as yours. My best friend and her husband and teen spent multiple weeks sorting through their mother's stuff before moving her to assisted living, paying for sundries, etc... and none of that labor was paid.

I find your nickel and diming a little distasteful, but if you're desperately in need of money, and it makes your father have a more attentive and willing helper... sure, go ahead.

You’ve got to be kidding, PP. The OP is suffering lost income. Why should she foot that bill to the benefit of the do-nothing sibling(s)?? This is a way for her to be recognized by their father for the extra care and time she is devoting, while at least one of her siblings does absolutely nothing. As a parent, I’d want to reward my child for making extra sacrifices beyond what the other children are doing. And as a parent, I’d feel like less of a burden and less like someone just taking taking taking from my child. It would feel good to give something back. And OP’s father can apparently afford to do just that.

This isn’t doing the dad’s taxes. This is ongoing, substantial, detailed, hard and sometimes exhausting work. If you haven’t been there, you can have no idea what it’s like.

+1 This exactly. You can stfu, previous PP if you haven't been there. I have a dear friend whose time is consumed by taking care of both elderly parents, one with dementia and one fragile. She had to retire early and she "pays herself" which means that her parents agreed and have the means and are deeply appreciative. (They even gave her a car and include gas money!). Her sibling is relieved and agrees to the arrangement.

Of course we all do this out of the goodness of our hearts too, but this is a job we are talking about. There's no reason not to earn income if all/most parties agree. Would you work for free?

But at $80/hr? Is the nice sibling OK with that? Unless OP's father is wealthy, it's going to make a significant dent in his inheritance and at the end, maybe both siblings of OP will be bitter.

In principle, I agree with compensation for the sibling who is working for their elderly parent. The way my in-laws have set this up, the sibling who is doing the most care is getting a larger chunk of the inheritance. But if we start to get into counting hours and dollars... I think that opens the door to nitpicking later.

Who cares if siblings are bitter? The dad is alive and is choosing to compensate his very generous and caring daughter for part of the time she gives him to care for him. They are not doing any caregiving, so they need to get over feeling entitled to his money.

And the people who are nickel and dining OP over it being $80/hr…you think the level of care a daughter provides is even remotely comparable to what you’d get from someone on Care.com for $20/hr? Give me a break! It’s absolutely worth 4x that if that’s the income she’s giving up to do it, and she is trusted and reliable. If he can afford it, why not?

She isn't generous or caring - she is charging him. There is zero generosity or care. It is a business transaction and a way for her to make money. Generous and caring would be helping out for free because you love your father. And her father doesn't really have a choice - if he wants to see his family, he needs to pay up. Otherwise he would be on his own with no one. She even charges him for the kids to visit.

I don’t see anywhere that she charges him for the kids to visit. She’s charging him for when she has to take time off; that’s fair. And it is STILL incredibly kind and generous. Would her dad rather be sitting in a car and then waiting room and then talking to his urologist around a stranger with too much perfume who makes him feel awkward and can barely speak the language? If he can afford $80/hr, I’m sure it a huge load off him feeling like a burden and that he is hurting her financially by accepting so much help.

It’s STILl burdensome, uncomfortable, stressful, and unrelenting to be a primarily elder care caregiver even if he replaces some of her income.

I have been an elder care caregiver for a grandparent and now partially for a parent and that will become more in the future. Being reimbursed for a new $500 piece of equipment she wanted is different from keeping a spreadsheet of every minute of visit, every penny spent on gas, every coffee I bought her, and nickle and diming her for every single interaction. Which is what OP has said she is doing. She has a spreadsheet of every visit and every dime spent. I get there are a lot of people who feel you should never ever help family unless you are paid for it, I just disagree. I can't imagine raising my kids with the belief that they should never help each other, never do anything for anyone - unless they keep a spreadsheet and get compensated for every minute of help and every penny spent. But clearly that is how many are raising their kids. Help no one but yourself. Do nothing out of kindness or care or love, but only for compensation.

[Anonymous]

The taxes seem complicated as your father is now your employer and you are his employee being paid for services rendered. You need a contract and to be sure you are declaring income earned. A third party should be doing his taxes as your employer to avoid conflict of interest.

[Anonymous]

https://www.agingcare.com/documents/personal_care_agreement_agingcare.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m going to echo some other posters here and tell you that you need to get durable and medical POA asap. If your father suffers a cognitive decline, he could accuse you of stealing or manipulating him, even if you have the best intentions. Even the kindest people can do a 180 once dementia begins.

POAs need to be put in place while someone still has their faculties. It can be an awkward conversation, but so important. Plus, it really cuts through a lot of red tape, and you can talk to providers or manage accounts directly. Once the window for getting a POA has passed, you’d need to apply for guardianship and the bar is much higher; the court might even appoint a neutral party as guardian.

And don’t feel guilty for reimbursing yourself. Little things can really start to add up and you don’t want to get underwater yourself when someone has the funds to reimburse.

This is true. My mother had what I now see was early dementia maybe from ministrokes. I realized something was wrong when I visited her after my stepfather died and saw a box where she just dumped all the mail, unopened. I offered to pay the bills and she had them sent to me and gave me the checkbook.

Then about 10 months later she demanded it back accusing me of stealing.

She let her neighbor "help out" he had been my stepfather's friend. Buddy ended up with everything in the house and I assume what money of hers was left. I got zero. I would have liked the pastel portrait of me when I was 9. I assume Buddy sold it for the frame.

I find these stories so heartbreaking. Just what the heck Buddy - how does he live with himself?