Can I charge my hourly rate for helping parent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We only have OP’s description of providing substantial caregiving, which by her own account is not exactly what’s being provided. Caregiving typically refers to activities of daily living, which sounds more like what you were providing. Hiring movers, picking up milk at Target, talking to potential facilities’ staff, and helping a parent throw things away and prepare for moving are not the same.

Until you have done this, as I have had to do for a parent with dementia, you dont really understand how much time it can take. I do not shower my mother (though I have and cleaned up sh&t) or do her laundry anymore, as she is now in memory care, but the organization of her finances and life, her many doctors' appointments (and because she has dementia, this is not something I could outsource as she could not fill out any paperwork); multiple hours long ER and urgent care visits; dealing with insurance, medicare, etc; and buying everything she needs, from clothing to diapers/wipes, to an eczema cream; and of course unwinding all the accounts and downsizing out of her home (the OP's description of trying to cancel an account is spot on).

I have pretty much stopped medical appointments at this point in dementia, but until this year, she would have them almost weekly. An appointment at 2 meant leaving work at noon. Getting to my mom's at 12:30. Even though I had spoken with her multiple times about being ready, still took her 30 minutes to get into the car. Get to the doctors at 1:30. She has limited mobility but I can't leave her in front of the building and park because last time I did that she wandered away. So I park and even the handicapped spots (I finally did get a pass to use with her) are, for her, a 10 min minimum walk to the doctors. We get there and they dont see us until 2:45. We are done by 3:15. Then it takes her 20 minutes to go to the bathroom. I get her back to her place at 4, and take her upstairs, get her settled in, then have to find the nursing office to make sure they have the new RX (and will have to follow up the next day), so I finally leave and at home at 5, just in time to drive my kids to after school activities. It was exhausting, but also really impacted my work, and I would have to try to catch up nights/weekends as so much of what I do is deadline driven. so yeah, my job is "flexible" in terms of leaving or taking off hours, but not in terms of when I have to turn in deliverables. It also takes time away from my own kids, health, etc. Aside from "social" visits, I was spending an average of 10 hours a week on my mom's care, and that does not include the 3 weeks I took off (my full vacation for the year) to downsize her. ANd that was not "helping her thrown thigns away," she was completely incapable at that point of making decisions, and had been scammed of hundreds of thousands of dollars, while my sibling was supposedly overseeing her finances. That's when I stepped in.

The other thing that doesn't get mentioned here is how often women are the caretakers. When my mom first received the diagnosis of Alzheimers, she was so upset. And she said something in front of the doctor to me--"I hate how much of a burden this has been and will be on you." And the (male) doctor's response was "that's what daughters are for." I was SO PISSED. But of course, in my case, my brother hasn't lifted a finger. I had to move my mom across the country so that I could make sure she got the care she needed, while he does whatever he wants.

Thus is OP. Thank you for writing this! Sorry you are going through the same thing.

This is a great explanation. People don’t understand a medical appointment takes hours! It’s not the actual appointment -that part is easy peasy. It’s getting the parent moving along. Often they haven’t showed or changed, it’s then getting them out the door (they can’t find keys to lock door, can’t find wallet, etc.) then and yes- the parking!

Lately I have been so stressed I have been taking one kid out of their last period early (luckily a really easy subject where they have an A+) because there is often no parking nearby even handicap parking. So I can leave my high schooler and my dad in front of building while I park far away.

Yup then all the added stuff. And you were spot on of course I’m the daughter.

As it is working full time with a husband and two high school kids, pets, no maid or gardener I can barely keep my life organized. I need ti declutter my house and organize but have didnt weeks and countless hours dealing up my dad’s house.

The stress is something no amount of money is worth. The overall toll this has taken on my health, my relationship with my spouse, the time away from my kids has been horrendous.

There are services that will help with appointments and day-to-day living. You framed your post as an issue about personal remuneration due to the time and effort you’ve spent helping your parent. Why not start using your parent’s funds toward professional assistance? Are you concerned about them not having enough money for their care in the future?

[Anonymous]

OP- another vote to not listen to the bozos. It's so freaking easy to just hire a carer (who is responsible and can drive and always shows up for everything) for just $25. And how many or few hours they can pick up as of course they are perfectly elastic in their availability. Just waiting around for the exact hours you need them for. And they don't need to be managed at all... So Easy!!!

[Anonymous]

OP, I’m going to echo some other posters here and tell you that you need to get durable and medical POA asap. If your father suffers a cognitive decline, he could accuse you of stealing or manipulating him, even if you have the best intentions. Even the kindest people can do a 180 once dementia begins.

POAs need to be put in place while someone still has their faculties. It can be an awkward conversation, but so important. Plus, it really cuts through a lot of red tape, and you can talk to providers or manage accounts directly. Once the window for getting a POA has passed, you’d need to apply for guardianship and the bar is much higher; the court might even appoint a neutral party as guardian.

And don’t feel guilty for reimbursing yourself. Little things can really start to add up and you don’t want to get underwater yourself when someone has the funds to reimburse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We only have OP’s description of providing substantial caregiving, which by her own account is not exactly what’s being provided. Caregiving typically refers to activities of daily living, which sounds more like what you were providing. Hiring movers, picking up milk at Target, talking to potential facilities’ staff, and helping a parent throw things away and prepare for moving are not the same.

Until you have done this, as I have had to do for a parent with dementia, you dont really understand how much time it can take. I do not shower my mother (though I have and cleaned up sh&t) or do her laundry anymore, as she is now in memory care, but the organization of her finances and life, her many doctors' appointments (and because she has dementia, this is not something I could outsource as she could not fill out any paperwork); multiple hours long ER and urgent care visits; dealing with insurance, medicare, etc; and buying everything she needs, from clothing to diapers/wipes, to an eczema cream; and of course unwinding all the accounts and downsizing out of her home (the OP's description of trying to cancel an account is spot on).

I have pretty much stopped medical appointments at this point in dementia, but until this year, she would have them almost weekly. An appointment at 2 meant leaving work at noon. Getting to my mom's at 12:30. Even though I had spoken with her multiple times about being ready, still took her 30 minutes to get into the car. Get to the doctors at 1:30. She has limited mobility but I can't leave her in front of the building and park because last time I did that she wandered away. So I park and even the handicapped spots (I finally did get a pass to use with her) are, for her, a 10 min minimum walk to the doctors. We get there and they dont see us until 2:45. We are done by 3:15. Then it takes her 20 minutes to go to the bathroom. I get her back to her place at 4, and take her upstairs, get her settled in, then have to find the nursing office to make sure they have the new RX (and will have to follow up the next day), so I finally leave and at home at 5, just in time to drive my kids to after school activities. It was exhausting, but also really impacted my work, and I would have to try to catch up nights/weekends as so much of what I do is deadline driven. so yeah, my job is "flexible" in terms of leaving or taking off hours, but not in terms of when I have to turn in deliverables. It also takes time away from my own kids, health, etc. Aside from "social" visits, I was spending an average of 10 hours a week on my mom's care, and that does not include the 3 weeks I took off (my full vacation for the year) to downsize her. ANd that was not "helping her thrown thigns away," she was completely incapable at that point of making decisions, and had been scammed of hundreds of thousands of dollars, while my sibling was supposedly overseeing her finances. That's when I stepped in.

The other thing that doesn't get mentioned here is how often women are the caretakers. When my mom first received the diagnosis of Alzheimers, she was so upset. And she said something in front of the doctor to me--"I hate how much of a burden this has been and will be on you." And the (male) doctor's response was "that's what daughters are for." I was SO PISSED. But of course, in my case, my brother hasn't lifted a finger. I had to move my mom across the country so that I could make sure she got the care she needed, while he does whatever he wants.

Thus is OP. Thank you for writing this! Sorry you are going through the same thing.

This is a great explanation. People don’t understand a medical appointment takes hours! It’s not the actual appointment -that part is easy peasy. It’s getting the parent moving along. Often they haven’t showed or changed, it’s then getting them out the door (they can’t find keys to lock door, can’t find wallet, etc.) then and yes- the parking!

Lately I have been so stressed I have been taking one kid out of their last period early (luckily a really easy subject where they have an A+) because there is often no parking nearby even handicap parking. So I can leave my high schooler and my dad in front of building while I park far away.

Yup then all the added stuff. And you were spot on of course I’m the daughter.

As it is working full time with a husband and two high school kids, pets, no maid or gardener I can barely keep my life organized. I need ti declutter my house and organize but have didnt weeks and countless hours dealing up my dad’s house.

The stress is something no amount of money is worth. The overall toll this has taken on my health, my relationship with my spouse, the time away from my kids has been horrendous.

There are services that will help with appointments and day-to-day living. You framed your post as an issue about personal remuneration due to the time and effort you’ve spent helping your parent. Why not start using your parent’s funds toward professional assistance? Are you concerned about them not having enough money for their care in the future?

If finances ten concern OP isn’t helping because she’s charging an hourly rate 5x that of what home aids charge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP- another vote to not listen to the bozos. It's so freaking easy to just hire a carer (who is responsible and can drive and always shows up for everything) for just $25. And how many or few hours they can pick up as of course they are perfectly elastic in their availability. Just waiting around for the exact hours you need them for. And they don't need to be managed at all... So Easy!!!

Op Again. Exactly. Thank you. I don't want to manage anyone. I can't even get it together to get a weekly cleaning service. Someone has to be in charge of the hiring, managing, paying, etc. Who magically is going to do that. And how many caregivers drive and can just be sitting around on call?

Someone please tell me who can gather all the tax documents that are needed and send to the accountant to pay taxes for $25 an hour. To take phone calls from doctors, assisted living, etc. And don't get me started on extended family members who can't reach my dad because he forgets to charge his phone so they start calling me. Who can I pay to sift through boxes of documents to make sure important documents don't get shredded and all the others one do get shredded?

It is often like a game of chicken and which sibling caves and ends up getting stuck doing all these tasks. And once you start you can't seem to step away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your sibling has no standing to sue. NONE whatsoever.

Please pay yourself honestly, if your father agrees and this is something you really need.

I will note that for most of the middle class, adult children would never dream of making their parents pay for their help. I have never actually heard of such an arrangement as yours. My best friend and her husband and teen spent multiple weeks sorting through their mother's stuff before moving her to assisted living, paying for sundries, etc... and none of that labor was paid.

I find your nickel and diming a little distasteful, but if you're desperately in need of money, and it makes your father have a more attentive and willing helper... sure, go ahead.

+1

Also, the hourly rate should reflect what a caregiver would charge, not what your profession does. As a lawyer I bill at $300/hour but would never charge that rate for caregiver tasks, if indeed I charged anything for that.

[Anonymous]

Yes, get everything in writing. You have every right to do this.

I did not pay myself for helping with one parent and I did suffer financially only to have the living parent reward the sibling who does nothing with handouts. After that parent got difficult enough, I ended up insisting on outsourcing all care. i didn't even want to ask for payment because it was so emotionally draining dealing with her and i knew she would play games and probably leave me out of the will. I assume your dad is pleasant. If not, consider outsourcing and letting the sibling who does nothing who might have a problem know either help dad or outsource, but you can no longer do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP and my involved sibling and I would gladly hire out someone to do all the tasks I do for $25-30 an hour but like I said it isn’t caring for him it doing all the endless tasks that need doing that requires some particular knowledge.

All these people who think you can just hire someone for $25 an hour to manage an elderly person’s life are people who have never had to do the heavy lifting of trying to cancel internet and landline of an elderly person who can’t remember their PIN number. You have to sit there for over an hour trying to actually reach a person to cancel or they continue getting bills.

You think you can hire someone at that rate who can then hire movers, find people to take a bunch of stuff to goodwill, other stuff to trash. Then go to bank and get cash to pay some of these people. Change address on newspapers, and so many other things.

Please tell me who is going to the ER at 11 pm when your someone falls or has COVID and you have to advocate and speak to the doctor.

It’s hard to find someone who drives and who can pick up elderly person, sit there at the doctors office to make sure they are giving actual medical history, understand if they need to see a specialist, coordinate that apt, set up the next apt, check to see if there are outstanding balances, pick up medication at pharmacy and then drive person back to their house or assisted living.

So how is the sibling 1,000 miles away going to magically hire a person that does all that? That’s why that sibling was the one who suggested it and our father tells me all the time he wants to write me a check for all I do, for gas money, etc. I should have been taking him up on his offer but haven’t in the 7 years since our mother died.

I don’t want a penny of inheritance, I just realized how much financially I am losing out while one sibling does absolutely nothing.

And thinking about it I am not even counting all the hours my spouse and teenage kids have spent helping him out. My oldest child drives and I just realized for the past year I have been occasionally saying - after school swing by grocery store to get some cough drops, toilet paper, milk, etc. for your grandfather. Each purchase is probably under $10 so my kid feels bad asking their grandpa for the money. I thought they were getting reimbursed but they just told me they never have been.

We outsourced. It's much more than that rate, but yes, you can find people. It costs top dollar in part because it is a pain in the a$s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your sibling has no standing to sue. NONE whatsoever.

Please pay yourself honestly, if your father agrees and this is something you really need.

I will note that for most of the middle class, adult children would never dream of making their parents pay for their help. I have never actually heard of such an arrangement as yours. My best friend and her husband and teen spent multiple weeks sorting through their mother's stuff before moving her to assisted living, paying for sundries, etc... and none of that labor was paid.

I find your nickel and diming a little distasteful, but if you're desperately in need of money, and it makes your father have a more attentive and willing helper... sure, go ahead.

+1

Also, the hourly rate should reflect what a caregiver would charge, not what your profession does. As a lawyer I bill at $300/hour but would never charge that rate for caregiver tasks, if indeed I charged anything for that.

Not OP, but wow is this an elitist and privileged response. Do you understand that because you bill at $300 an hour you have a huge salary and it's likely not as big a sacrifice to take off and help? Shame on you for trying to guilt trip OP. As someone who did an insane amount for free, I think OP has every right to charge the amount she is used to making and I hope she doesn't make the same mistakes I did.

[Anonymous]

This is actually a *very* common set up. One of my co-workers has elderly parents, and his sister took time off to care for them. I can't remember who brought it up, but there are 2 local sibs (my co worker and his sister) and 1 who lives in europe. The sister got a monthly or biweekly cheque to help cover her bills while she was caring for them. This was especially important because their mom WOULD NOT allow a third party care giver in.

I do like the idea of getting everything in writing, but realistically, the sibling who does nothing and contributes nothing gets no say. Until they want to start buying groceries, driving him to appointments or paying bills they can zip their mouth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We only have OP’s description of providing substantial caregiving, which by her own account is not exactly what’s being provided. Caregiving typically refers to activities of daily living, which sounds more like what you were providing. Hiring movers, picking up milk at Target, talking to potential facilities’ staff, and helping a parent throw things away and prepare for moving are not the same.

Until you have done this, as I have had to do for a parent with dementia, you dont really understand how much time it can take. I do not shower my mother (though I have and cleaned up sh&t) or do her laundry anymore, as she is now in memory care, but the organization of her finances and life, her many doctors' appointments (and because she has dementia, this is not something I could outsource as she could not fill out any paperwork); multiple hours long ER and urgent care visits; dealing with insurance, medicare, etc; and buying everything she needs, from clothing to diapers/wipes, to an eczema cream; and of course unwinding all the accounts and downsizing out of her home (the OP's description of trying to cancel an account is spot on).

I have pretty much stopped medical appointments at this point in dementia, but until this year, she would have them almost weekly. An appointment at 2 meant leaving work at noon. Getting to my mom's at 12:30. Even though I had spoken with her multiple times about being ready, still took her 30 minutes to get into the car. Get to the doctors at 1:30. She has limited mobility but I can't leave her in front of the building and park because last time I did that she wandered away. So I park and even the handicapped spots (I finally did get a pass to use with her) are, for her, a 10 min minimum walk to the doctors. We get there and they dont see us until 2:45. We are done by 3:15. Then it takes her 20 minutes to go to the bathroom. I get her back to her place at 4, and take her upstairs, get her settled in, then have to find the nursing office to make sure they have the new RX (and will have to follow up the next day), so I finally leave and at home at 5, just in time to drive my kids to after school activities. It was exhausting, but also really impacted my work, and I would have to try to catch up nights/weekends as so much of what I do is deadline driven. so yeah, my job is "flexible" in terms of leaving or taking off hours, but not in terms of when I have to turn in deliverables. It also takes time away from my own kids, health, etc. Aside from "social" visits, I was spending an average of 10 hours a week on my mom's care, and that does not include the 3 weeks I took off (my full vacation for the year) to downsize her. ANd that was not "helping her thrown thigns away," she was completely incapable at that point of making decisions, and had been scammed of hundreds of thousands of dollars, while my sibling was supposedly overseeing her finances. That's when I stepped in.

The other thing that doesn't get mentioned here is how often women are the caretakers. When my mom first received the diagnosis of Alzheimers, she was so upset. And she said something in front of the doctor to me--"I hate how much of a burden this has been and will be on you." And the (male) doctor's response was "that's what daughters are for." I was SO PISSED. But of course, in my case, my brother hasn't lifted a finger. I had to move my mom across the country so that I could make sure she got the care she needed, while he does whatever he wants.

Thus is OP. Thank you for writing this! Sorry you are going through the same thing.

This is a great explanation. People don’t understand a medical appointment takes hours! It’s not the actual appointment -that part is easy peasy. It’s getting the parent moving along. Often they haven’t showed or changed, it’s then getting them out the door (they can’t find keys to lock door, can’t find wallet, etc.) then and yes- the parking!

Lately I have been so stressed I have been taking one kid out of their last period early (luckily a really easy subject where they have an A+) because there is often no parking nearby even handicap parking. So I can leave my high schooler and my dad in front of building while I park far away.

Yup then all the added stuff. And you were spot on of course I’m the daughter.

As it is working full time with a husband and two high school kids, pets, no maid or gardener I can barely keep my life organized. I need ti declutter my house and organize but have didnt weeks and countless hours dealing up my dad’s house.

The stress is something no amount of money is worth. The overall toll this has taken on my health, my relationship with my spouse, the time away from my kids has been horrendous.

There are services that will help with appointments and day-to-day living. You framed your post as an issue about personal remuneration due to the time and effort you’ve spent helping your parent. Why not start using your parent’s funds toward professional assistance? Are you concerned about them not having enough money for their care in the future?

If finances ten concern OP isn’t helping because she’s charging an hourly rate 5x that of what home aids charge.

You sound extremely out of touch. Minimum wage is higher than what you're suggesting. You think an elderly care aid should make less than a kid working at mcdonalds? I get that some people hate their parents, but suggesting to find the cheapest person to care for your elderly parent is pretty gross.

[Anonymous]

I find it repulsive to charge a parent to help them.

[Anonymous]

My parent pays me $15 an hour for caregiving. We found that hiring outside help led to exploitation and stolen money. I’m basically guarding family assets and earning my inheritance a bit early while performing caregiving duties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it repulsive to charge a parent to help them.

well the elderly genx/boomers certainly aren't helping the younger folks out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m going to echo some other posters here and tell you that you need to get durable and medical POA asap. If your father suffers a cognitive decline, he could accuse you of stealing or manipulating him, even if you have the best intentions. Even the kindest people can do a 180 once dementia begins.

POAs need to be put in place while someone still has their faculties. It can be an awkward conversation, but so important. Plus, it really cuts through a lot of red tape, and you can talk to providers or manage accounts directly. Once the window for getting a POA has passed, you’d need to apply for guardianship and the bar is much higher; the court might even appoint a neutral party as guardian.

And don’t feel guilty for reimbursing yourself. Little things can really start to add up and you don’t want to get underwater yourself when someone has the funds to reimburse.

This is true. My mother had what I now see was early dementia maybe from ministrokes. I realized something was wrong when I visited her after my stepfather died and saw a box where she just dumped all the mail, unopened. I offered to pay the bills and she had them sent to me and gave me the checkbook.

Then about 10 months later she demanded it back accusing me of stealing.

She let her neighbor "help out" he had been my stepfather's friend. Buddy ended up with everything in the house and I assume what money of hers was left. I got zero. I would have liked the pastel portrait of me when I was 9. I assume Buddy sold it for the frame.