What's the best elder model to unburden our own children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no single answer; it depends on finances, relationships, location. Conversations and planning with a good estate attorney are important. Having contingency plans is important. Being realistic about what people will actually do is important. If you have a child that is distant they probably are not going to be a significant part of your life as you age.

I hate senior living communities and will do everything I can to avoid it. It’s quite a ways off for me, but I will make my home as appropriate for aging in place as possible. I also know how important it is to remain active physically and mentally. Maintaining my independence is very important to me, so that’s a major priority for me.

I update my estate plan as needed and have made choices to minimize tax, minimize labor, and minimize decision making (including my final arrangements).

One thing I have done as I’ve taken care of elders is write letters to myself. I’ve taken note of the things that were very difficult for me as a caretaker, things that I really wished my family member had done differently, and things that worked. As I’m aging, I hope those letters will help me remember lessons learned from the caretaking side of the fence.

So...what is the plan when you can no longer reasonably care for yourself? Will you interview various in-home agencies when you are relatively capable and then have that lined up at the appropriate time? Will you be in any condition to even make that call? Will your family be close by?

In the first place, not all elders become incapable of self-care and the majority don’t live in care communities. But it’s always a possibility that one will have a bad decline. If I need minor help, my niece and one of my children will want to help, and I will hire help as well. My other children may or may not choose to help very much. They are very American, less dedicated to extended family. Perhaps that will change 20 or 30 years from now, but I don’t expect it. Part of the key is maintaining communication and having backup plans ready. What will happen if my niece has a child with special needs or some other toll that must come first? It’s important for any family to have contingency plans.

Now if I end up with a dementia diagnosis or some other horrific disease, I am fortunate to be a dual citizen and will have access to MAID (those of you planning to “go to Switzerland,” it’s not always so simple, especially if you only have American citizenship). If I am diagnosed with something that’s a fast finish, I will choose hospice care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely I will choose to go to Switzerland or hopefully in a least one state in the United States aid in dying will be available for everyone who wants it.

Seeing both my mother and aunt live with dementia has been awful. Both my cousin and I are bearing the brunt of the work while we both have one semi-supported sibling and one estranged sibling who won't help out or visit because they are too busy. It has broken apart our family. I don't want that to happen to my kids. I have no desire to live with dementia and experience that nightmare.

I also don't want to burn through 1 million dollars that my mother will have used by the time she dies. She is now on year 7 with seemingly no end in sight. She is eventually going to end up spending all her money and ending up in a state run nursing home. She has five grandchildren who could have used that money for graduate school, a down payment on a house, etc. I would much rather any grandchildren have that opportunity and advantage.

Meaning what exactly…that as soon as you receive the first diagnosis of dementia but are still 90% with it you will get on a plane?

Just trying to understand what anyone practically is saying when you post this.

I've been looking into this more as my dad declines with FTD. I think about what would happen if I was diagnosed in my 50s with FTD. You really do have to be committed to take action while you're at 90%, and I doubt the majority of people who are being so cavalier will be able to do so. You also have to get your diagnosis very early at the soonest symptoms because once you start declining, you won't have the executive function to do all the things people are saying (POA/plane/Sweden). My dad still doesn't realize the severity of his dementia despite being unable to understand people or communicate half of the time. He thinks he can't remember words sometimes but is otherwise fine.

You need the help of a loved one who has bought into the plan. I have told every loved one that I do not want to live with dementia. In Canada they are proposing that you can preplan and declare if you read a certain state of dementia you can uses assisted dying. For example, once I am at a certain stage on cognitive testing like the Montreal Cognitive Assessment (MoCA) Test for Dementia. If I score 17 (moderate cognitive impairment/ dementia) or below I wouldn't want to be alive anymore.

You make it sound so simple for your poor children to have to decide it’s time to kill mom because of how she scored on a test.

That’s not how it will go, at all. You will be a different you by then. Your children won’t have you killed. You will find some enjoyment in every day, even if you’re not as smart and independent as you are now, until one day your body stops working.

Have you been around someone with mid to later stages of dementia? There is no enjoyment in every day. It is literally torture. Your body doesn't just one day stop working. It gradually and painfully falls apart

[Anonymous]

Here’s the issue: nobody can predict the future, so oftentimes the elderly are fine until there’s a crisis/medical emergency.

But we know what the pain points will be once the crisis hits:

1. They can’t/shouldn’t deal with steps.

2. They need a flat access shower with grab bars and a chair.

3. They can’t maintain a big house.

4. Emptying a house and selling it is overwhelming.

5. Paying bills and navigating problems becomes challenging.

6. Giving up the car keys is a battle.

7. Paid caregivers are expensive.

8. People starting with dementia never accept their limitations. It’s a battle. They won’t want help. They won’t want to sell their home.

9. Everyone becomes a fall risk.

The more you can do to downsize someplace safe and accessible and streamline your finances, the better. Being near your kids is helpful.

I could go on and say don’t fight with your kids when they want to take your keys away or suggest assisted living…they just want to keep you safe. But old people never get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I could go on and say don’t fight with your kids when they want to take your keys away or suggest assisted living…they just want to keep you safe. But old people never get it.

And they absolutely get it for other people. Just not for themselves. That guy shouldn't be driving any longer. That woman shuffles her feet when she walks. That person is going to take a tumble if they don't start using their cane. That one is too vain to wear their emergency button.

::tracking shot of my mom getting out of her car and shuffling off somewhere without her cane.::
::cut to emergency button hanging by the door::

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no single answer; it depends on finances, relationships, location. Conversations and planning with a good estate attorney are important. Having contingency plans is important. Being realistic about what people will actually do is important. If you have a child that is distant they probably are not going to be a significant part of your life as you age.

I hate senior living communities and will do everything I can to avoid it. It’s quite a ways off for me, but I will make my home as appropriate for aging in place as possible. I also know how important it is to remain active physically and mentally. Maintaining my independence is very important to me, so that’s a major priority for me.

I update my estate plan as needed and have made choices to minimize tax, minimize labor, and minimize decision making (including my final arrangements).

One thing I have done as I’ve taken care of elders is write letters to myself. I’ve taken note of the things that were very difficult for me as a caretaker, things that I really wished my family member had done differently, and things that worked. As I’m aging, I hope those letters will help me remember lessons learned from the caretaking side of the fence.

So...what is the plan when you can no longer reasonably care for yourself? Will you interview various in-home agencies when you are relatively capable and then have that lined up at the appropriate time? Will you be in any condition to even make that call? Will your family be close by?

In the first place, not all elders become incapable of self-care and the majority don’t live in care communities. But it’s always a possibility that one will have a bad decline. If I need minor help, my niece and one of my children will want to help, and I will hire help as well. My other children may or may not choose to help very much. They are very American, less dedicated to extended family. Perhaps that will change 20 or 30 years from now, but I don’t expect it. Part of the key is maintaining communication and having backup plans ready. What will happen if my niece has a child with special needs or some other toll that must come first? It’s important for any family to have contingency plans.

Now if I end up with a dementia diagnosis or some other horrific disease, I am fortunate to be a dual citizen and will have access to MAID (those of you planning to “go to Switzerland,” it’s not always so simple, especially if you only have American citizenship). If I am diagnosed with something that’s a fast finish, I will choose hospice care

This doesn't seem like much of a plan. This sounds like the "plan" our current parents also have, which means there is no plan, but rather the concepts of a plan.

Have you worked out an explicit arrangement with your niece or child? Will payment be involved? Have you interviewed agencies or have any idea as to how to hire help? Do you expect your children will do this?

[Anonymous]

We're 63 and planning to sell our home and move into a CCC at 67. We've had several very fit friends die of cancer in their early 60s. It feels like time is running out to set things up to make things easy for our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely I will choose to go to Switzerland or hopefully in a least one state in the United States aid in dying will be available for everyone who wants it.

Seeing both my mother and aunt live with dementia has been awful. Both my cousin and I are bearing the brunt of the work while we both have one semi-supported sibling and one estranged sibling who won't help out or visit because they are too busy. It has broken apart our family. I don't want that to happen to my kids. I have no desire to live with dementia and experience that nightmare.

I also don't want to burn through 1 million dollars that my mother will have used by the time she dies. She is now on year 7 with seemingly no end in sight. She is eventually going to end up spending all her money and ending up in a state run nursing home. She has five grandchildren who could have used that money for graduate school, a down payment on a house, etc. I would much rather any grandchildren have that opportunity and advantage.

Meaning what exactly…that as soon as you receive the first diagnosis of dementia but are still 90% with it you will get on a plane?

Just trying to understand what anyone practically is saying when you post this.

I've been looking into this more as my dad declines with FTD. I think about what would happen if I was diagnosed in my 50s with FTD. You really do have to be committed to take action while you're at 90%, and I doubt the majority of people who are being so cavalier will be able to do so. You also have to get your diagnosis very early at the soonest symptoms because once you start declining, you won't have the executive function to do all the things people are saying (POA/plane/Sweden). My dad still doesn't realize the severity of his dementia despite being unable to understand people or communicate half of the time. He thinks he can't remember words sometimes but is otherwise fine.

You need the help of a loved one who has bought into the plan. I have told every loved one that I do not want to live with dementia. In Canada they are proposing that you can preplan and declare if you read a certain state of dementia you can uses assisted dying. For example, once I am at a certain stage on cognitive testing like the Montreal Cognitive Assessment (MoCA) Test for Dementia. If I score 17 (moderate cognitive impairment/ dementia) or below I wouldn't want to be alive anymore.

You make it sound so simple for your poor children to have to decide it’s time to kill mom because of how she scored on a test.

That’s not how it will go, at all. You will be a different you by then. Your children won’t have you killed. You will find some enjoyment in every day, even if you’re not as smart and independent as you are now, until one day your body stops working.

Have you been around someone with mid to later stages of dementia? There is no enjoyment in every day. It is literally torture. Your body doesn't just one day stop working. It gradually and painfully falls apart

Yes, my mother-in-law has been declining with Alzheimer’s for 10 years and we found the assisted living community for her a couple of years ago. I wrote what I did because I know that my husband (her son) would be absolutely destroyed if she had some kind of weird advance directive where he is supposed to fly her to Canada and give her a lethal cocktail. It’s hard to see her decline but “putting her to sleep” would cause him a lifetime of guilt. Luckily it’s not legal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After dealing with my own aging parents and in laws, I have the solution.

1. Get the finances and house organized.

2. Medically assisted suicide at 70ish. Certainly no later than 75.

I'm not interested in being an old person, and I'm not interested in being a burden to my kids. I'll leave them an easy to read excel
Spreadsheet with all the bank account information, my log ins and passwords, and then make a true Irish goodbye.

Jesus. My mom is 75 and just got back from a 2-week trip to Italy. She has absolutely no cognitive or mobility issues. Have you only known decrepit old people? Bruce Springsteen is 75. Samuel L. Jackson is 75.

[Anonymous]

I just read that Al Pacino, who is 84, is a new dad to a 1 year-old. Yes, you read that right. I think we all need to figure out what to do based on our individual circumstances, but cleaning up your surroundings of stuff can be done even if you're not about to die.

Agree with this: "The more you can do to downsize someplace safe and accessible and streamline your finances, the better."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no single answer; it depends on finances, relationships, location. Conversations and planning with a good estate attorney are important. Having contingency plans is important. Being realistic about what people will actually do is important. If you have a child that is distant they probably are not going to be a significant part of your life as you age.

I hate senior living communities and will do everything I can to avoid it. It’s quite a ways off for me, but I will make my home as appropriate for aging in place as possible. I also know how important it is to remain active physically and mentally. Maintaining my independence is very important to me, so that’s a major priority for me.

I update my estate plan as needed and have made choices to minimize tax, minimize labor, and minimize decision making (including my final arrangements).

One thing I have done as I’ve taken care of elders is write letters to myself. I’ve taken note of the things that were very difficult for me as a caretaker, things that I really wished my family member had done differently, and things that worked. As I’m aging, I hope those letters will help me remember lessons learned from the caretaking side of the fence.

So...what is the plan when you can no longer reasonably care for yourself? Will you interview various in-home agencies when you are relatively capable and then have that lined up at the appropriate time? Will you be in any condition to even make that call? Will your family be close by?

In the first place, not all elders become incapable of self-care and the majority don’t live in care communities. But it’s always a possibility that one will have a bad decline. If I need minor help, my niece and one of my children will want to help, and I will hire help as well. My other children may or may not choose to help very much. They are very American, less dedicated to extended family. Perhaps that will change 20 or 30 years from now, but I don’t expect it. Part of the key is maintaining communication and having backup plans ready. What will happen if my niece has a child with special needs or some other toll that must come first? It’s important for any family to have contingency plans.

Now if I end up with a dementia diagnosis or some other horrific disease, I am fortunate to be a dual citizen and will have access to MAID (those of you planning to “go to Switzerland,” it’s not always so simple, especially if you only have American citizenship). If I am diagnosed with something that’s a fast finish, I will choose hospice care

This doesn't seem like much of a plan. This sounds like the "plan" our current parents also have, which means there is no plan, but rather the concepts of a plan.

Have you worked out an explicit arrangement with your niece or child? Will payment be involved? Have you interviewed agencies or have any idea as to how to hire help? Do you expect your children will do this?

For context, I still have an older elementary child at home. This thread was about how to approach aging without “burdening.” It would be very premature for me to interview agencies or have a nuts and bolts agreement with family members. I’ve cared for most of the elders in my family, so yes, I know how to talk to agencies. 😂 Yes, my niece and adult child have expressed their desire and commitment to helping when I age. I have my priorities and responsibilities and as things change in the future we will do our best to prepare and plan with contingencies. Barring some horrific accident, I won’t even begin to need help for 20-30 years at the earliest. And possibly not then. Some in my family live into their late 90s in their own homes with extremely minimal help. Nevertheless, I will make plans with my family, and revise them as things change.

Most people my age aren’t thinking about aging plans at all yet. Sorry you’re so pissed at your parents but your snide remarks are unwarranted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:(1) start downsizing as soon as your kids have launched and you know you don't need all this stuff any more. A house is one thing, a house full of stuff that's 20-30 years old is another.
(2) exercise. Take care of your health. Don't overeat, keep mentally active.
(3) I honestly don't think kids will be interested in caring for parents in the future. Just like many of them got sent to daycares, old people will have theirs. With current mobility it's unlikely for kids to live close by or even on the same continent. Make your plans as if you don't have kids.

Unfortunately, I think this is right.

I agree about the small house and doing whatever is in your power to stay healthy. But the breakdown comes for everyone, eventually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mom complained that my grandpa who died at 94 in his SFH did not close down his SFH earlier and move to senior living earlier.

Guess who is 83 and just reinvested $50K in making her house and backyard more liveable (long overdue, and may be partially recouped at resale, but still!)? I asked her to move to my state but she refused.

I think the reason for the freezing is that they don't want to live in living arrangements they wouldn't otherwise choose.

I love the idea of family compounds and babysitting grandmas. I'd love to live in a backyard ADU or MIL apartment and not even bug my kids with daily visits. Except for babysitting if that was wanted. I will have the funds to make this happen if it's welcome.

I have never purchased a freestanding SFH so am fine with downsizing.

Oh good god no to the family compound where you’ll live in the backyard ADU and be no trouble at all! Are you really going to sit alone in your backyard ADU for every holiday they host with the other in laws, every birthday party, every holiday or event? Nope, you’ll be with them. You will need someone to drive you to medical appointments at some point which is really difficult when you are already juggling work and kid appointments. When you need nursing care and run out of resources, you can’t sell the ADU . I guess your adult kids have to sell the house or daughter or daughter in law gives up her career to wipe you. Yeah, no trouble at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no single answer; it depends on finances, relationships, location. Conversations and planning with a good estate attorney are important. Having contingency plans is important. Being realistic about what people will actually do is important. If you have a child that is distant they probably are not going to be a significant part of your life as you age.

I hate senior living communities and will do everything I can to avoid it. It’s quite a ways off for me, but I will make my home as appropriate for aging in place as possible. I also know how important it is to remain active physically and mentally. Maintaining my independence is very important to me, so that’s a major priority for me.

I update my estate plan as needed and have made choices to minimize tax, minimize labor, and minimize decision making (including my final arrangements).

One thing I have done as I’ve taken care of elders is write letters to myself. I’ve taken note of the things that were very difficult for me as a caretaker, things that I really wished my family member had done differently, and things that worked. As I’m aging, I hope those letters will help me remember lessons learned from the caretaking side of the fence.

So...what is the plan when you can no longer reasonably care for yourself? Will you interview various in-home agencies when you are relatively capable and then have that lined up at the appropriate time? Will you be in any condition to even make that call? Will your family be close by?

In the first place, not all elders become incapable of self-care and the majority don’t live in care communities. But it’s always a possibility that one will have a bad decline. If I need minor help, my niece and one of my children will want to help, and I will hire help as well. My other children may or may not choose to help very much. They are very American, less dedicated to extended family. Perhaps that will change 20 or 30 years from now, but I don’t expect it. Part of the key is maintaining communication and having backup plans ready. What will happen if my niece has a child with special needs or some other toll that must come first? It’s important for any family to have contingency plans.

Now if I end up with a dementia diagnosis or some other horrific disease, I am fortunate to be a dual citizen and will have access to MAID (those of you planning to “go to Switzerland,” it’s not always so simple, especially if you only have American citizenship). If I am diagnosed with something that’s a fast finish, I will choose hospice care

This doesn't seem like much of a plan. This sounds like the "plan" our current parents also have, which means there is no plan, but rather the concepts of a plan.

Have you worked out an explicit arrangement with your niece or child? Will payment be involved? Have you interviewed agencies or have any idea as to how to hire help? Do you expect your children will do this?

For context, I still have an older elementary child at home. This thread was about how to approach aging without “burdening.” It would be very premature for me to interview agencies or have a nuts and bolts agreement with family members. I’ve cared for most of the elders in my family, so yes, I know how to talk to agencies. 😂 Yes, my niece and adult child have expressed their desire and commitment to helping when I age. I have my priorities and responsibilities and as things change in the future we will do our best to prepare and plan with contingencies. Barring some horrific accident, I won’t even begin to need help for 20-30 years at the earliest. And possibly not then. Some in my family live into their late 90s in their own homes with extremely minimal help. Nevertheless, I will make plans with my family, and revise them as things change.

Most people my age aren’t thinking about aging plans at all yet. Sorry you’re so pissed at your parents but your snide remarks are unwarranted.

I'm not the pp you quoted.

The age of the child in your home doesn't give context at all. This is DCUM, where many women give birth in their late 40s--so you could be nearly 60 years old with an older elementary child. Or maybe you were a teen mom and you're only 26 with an elementary age child at home.

And some people need help in their 60's-my mom did. And like you, her parents, grandparents, etc. healthy lives until their 90s-so it was very unexpected that she needed help at such a relatively young age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no single answer; it depends on finances, relationships, location. Conversations and planning with a good estate attorney are important. Having contingency plans is important. Being realistic about what people will actually do is important. If you have a child that is distant they probably are not going to be a significant part of your life as you age.

I hate senior living communities and will do everything I can to avoid it. It’s quite a ways off for me, but I will make my home as appropriate for aging in place as possible. I also know how important it is to remain active physically and mentally. Maintaining my independence is very important to me, so that’s a major priority for me.

I update my estate plan as needed and have made choices to minimize tax, minimize labor, and minimize decision making (including my final arrangements).

One thing I have done as I’ve taken care of elders is write letters to myself. I’ve taken note of the things that were very difficult for me as a caretaker, things that I really wished my family member had done differently, and things that worked. As I’m aging, I hope those letters will help me remember lessons learned from the caretaking side of the fence.

So...what is the plan when you can no longer reasonably care for yourself? Will you interview various in-home agencies when you are relatively capable and then have that lined up at the appropriate time? Will you be in any condition to even make that call? Will your family be close by?

In the first place, not all elders become incapable of self-care and the majority don’t live in care communities. But it’s always a possibility that one will have a bad decline. If I need minor help, my niece and one of my children will want to help, and I will hire help as well. My other children may or may not choose to help very much. They are very American, less dedicated to extended family. Perhaps that will change 20 or 30 years from now, but I don’t expect it. Part of the key is maintaining communication and having backup plans ready. What will happen if my niece has a child with special needs or some other toll that must come first? It’s important for any family to have contingency plans.

Now if I end up with a dementia diagnosis or some other horrific disease, I am fortunate to be a dual citizen and will have access to MAID (those of you planning to “go to Switzerland,” it’s not always so simple, especially if you only have American citizenship). If I am diagnosed with something that’s a fast finish, I will choose hospice care

This doesn't seem like much of a plan. This sounds like the "plan" our current parents also have, which means there is no plan, but rather the concepts of a plan.

Have you worked out an explicit arrangement with your niece or child? Will payment be involved? Have you interviewed agencies or have any idea as to how to hire help? Do you expect your children will do this?

For context, I still have an older elementary child at home. This thread was about how to approach aging without “burdening.” It would be very premature for me to interview agencies or have a nuts and bolts agreement with family members. I’ve cared for most of the elders in my family, so yes, I know how to talk to agencies. 😂 Yes, my niece and adult child have expressed their desire and commitment to helping when I age. I have my priorities and responsibilities and as things change in the future we will do our best to prepare and plan with contingencies. Barring some horrific accident, I won’t even begin to need help for 20-30 years at the earliest. And possibly not then. Some in my family live into their late 90s in their own homes with extremely minimal help. Nevertheless, I will make plans with my family, and revise them as things change.

Most people my age aren’t thinking about aging plans at all yet. Sorry you’re so pissed at your parents but your snide remarks are unwarranted.

I’m not pissed…it’s just you keep commenting that you have no plan.

I don’t know why you keep posting this way, but simply pointing out you have the same “plan” that our own parents have…which is no plan…doesn’t progress the conversation.

I don’t quite get how old you are with both an adult child and elementary school child…unclear if you had the adult very young and are in your early 40s or not.

The whole point of this thread is based on people actually giving some thought to all of this, which you even admit you have not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom complained that my grandpa who died at 94 in his SFH did not close down his SFH earlier and move to senior living earlier.

Guess who is 83 and just reinvested $50K in making her house and backyard more liveable (long overdue, and may be partially recouped at resale, but still!)? I asked her to move to my state but she refused.

I think the reason for the freezing is that they don't want to live in living arrangements they wouldn't otherwise choose.

I love the idea of family compounds and babysitting grandmas. I'd love to live in a backyard ADU or MIL apartment and not even bug my kids with daily visits. Except for babysitting if that was wanted. I will have the funds to make this happen if it's welcome.

I have never purchased a freestanding SFH so am fine with downsizing.

Oh good god no to the family compound where you’ll live in the backyard ADU and be no trouble at all! Are you really going to sit alone in your backyard ADU for every holiday they host with the other in laws, every birthday party, every holiday or event? Nope, you’ll be with them. You will need someone to drive you to medical appointments at some point which is really difficult when you are already juggling work and kid appointments. When you need nursing care and run out of resources, you can’t sell the ADU . I guess your adult kids have to sell the house or daughter or daughter in law gives up her career to wipe you. Yeah, no trouble at all.

I will say there is a family near us that went the compound route (both parents and kids have full SFHs with shared backyard) and it seems to have worked well. There are a number of other siblings that also live within five miles, so everything doesn’t fall into the sibling that lives in the compound.

The parent is now moving into assisted living and selling so they had to put up a fence.