What's the best elder model to unburden our own children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely I will choose to go to Switzerland or hopefully in a least one state in the United States aid in dying will be available for everyone who wants it.

Seeing both my mother and aunt live with dementia has been awful. Both my cousin and I are bearing the brunt of the work while we both have one semi-supported sibling and one estranged sibling who won't help out or visit because they are too busy. It has broken apart our family. I don't want that to happen to my kids. I have no desire to live with dementia and experience that nightmare.

I also don't want to burn through 1 million dollars that my mother will have used by the time she dies. She is now on year 7 with seemingly no end in sight. She is eventually going to end up spending all her money and ending up in a state run nursing home. She has five grandchildren who could have used that money for graduate school, a down payment on a house, etc. I would much rather any grandchildren have that opportunity and advantage.

I don’t get the $1MM comment…is it different if your mom was healthy but decided to join a $150k per year country club and live it up?

Aren’t the parents responsible for their own children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely I will choose to go to Switzerland or hopefully in a least one state in the United States aid in dying will be available for everyone who wants it.

Seeing both my mother and aunt live with dementia has been awful. Both my cousin and I are bearing the brunt of the work while we both have one semi-supported sibling and one estranged sibling who won't help out or visit because they are too busy. It has broken apart our family. I don't want that to happen to my kids. I have no desire to live with dementia and experience that nightmare.

I also don't want to burn through 1 million dollars that my mother will have used by the time she dies. She is now on year 7 with seemingly no end in sight. She is eventually going to end up spending all her money and ending up in a state run nursing home. She has five grandchildren who could have used that money for graduate school, a down payment on a house, etc. I would much rather any grandchildren have that opportunity and advantage.

Meaning what exactly…that as soon as you receive the first diagnosis of dementia but are still 90% with it you will get on a plane?

Just trying to understand what anyone practically is saying when you post this.

I've been looking into this more as my dad declines with FTD. I think about what would happen if I was diagnosed in my 50s with FTD. You really do have to be committed to take action while you're at 90%, and I doubt the majority of people who are being so cavalier will be able to do so. You also have to get your diagnosis very early at the soonest symptoms because once you start declining, you won't have the executive function to do all the things people are saying (POA/plane/Sweden). My dad still doesn't realize the severity of his dementia despite being unable to understand people or communicate half of the time. He thinks he can't remember words sometimes but is otherwise fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no single answer; it depends on finances, relationships, location. Conversations and planning with a good estate attorney are important. Having contingency plans is important. Being realistic about what people will actually do is important. If you have a child that is distant they probably are not going to be a significant part of your life as you age.

I hate senior living communities and will do everything I can to avoid it. It’s quite a ways off for me, but I will make my home as appropriate for aging in place as possible. I also know how important it is to remain active physically and mentally. Maintaining my independence is very important to me, so that’s a major priority for me.

I update my estate plan as needed and have made choices to minimize tax, minimize labor, and minimize decision making (including my final arrangements).

One thing I have done as I’ve taken care of elders is write letters to myself. I’ve taken note of the things that were very difficult for me as a caretaker, things that I really wished my family member had done differently, and things that worked. As I’m aging, I hope those letters will help me remember lessons learned from the caretaking side of the fence.

So...what is the plan when you can no longer reasonably care for yourself? Will you interview various in-home agencies when you are relatively capable and then have that lined up at the appropriate time? Will you be in any condition to even make that call? Will your family be close by?

NP. Nope. One of the kids will do it (who lives several hours away) and will oversee it (which is a part time job itself). Ask me how I know. They will also have to tell parent when it is time to move to assisted living (after updating house to age in place and hiring in home caregivers for several yrs.) Again, ask me how I know. By the time elders who age in place really need to move out, they are beyond their capacity to make those decisions let alone make the move themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My plan is #1.

We did that for my mom and it worked out well.

We added paid visitors who took her out to lunch/run errands 2-5 times a week.

This is the best approach. Don’t underestimate the need for
additional paid help, even if they are in an assisted living or nursing home costing thousands a month, and even if you and/or siblings are visiting regularly. You always will need or want extra help.

Curious then about why it isn't better to plan to live in your own house and pay for 24/7 live-in help (or is it 16 hours a day?).

If you are going to have spend a ton on paid help anyway, why not just decide to move to a place where you can live on one floor (ranch or at least main bedroom and bath on first floor) vs. paying a ton for the facility + paid help.

It will cost 250-300k for around the clock live in home care and they will not be as trained as assisted living or nursing home employees. Assisted living (80k+ per yr) and even nursing homes (120k+ per yr) cost much less and have nurses on staff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely I will choose to go to Switzerland or hopefully in a least one state in the United States aid in dying will be available for everyone who wants it.

Seeing both my mother and aunt live with dementia has been awful. Both my cousin and I are bearing the brunt of the work while we both have one semi-supported sibling and one estranged sibling who won't help out or visit because they are too busy. It has broken apart our family. I don't want that to happen to my kids. I have no desire to live with dementia and experience that nightmare.

I also don't want to burn through 1 million dollars that my mother will have used by the time she dies. She is now on year 7 with seemingly no end in sight. She is eventually going to end up spending all her money and ending up in a state run nursing home. She has five grandchildren who could have used that money for graduate school, a down payment on a house, etc. I would much rather any grandchildren have that opportunity and advantage.

I don’t get the $1MM comment…is it different if your mom was healthy but decided to join a $150k per year country club and live it up?

Aren’t the parents responsible for their own children?

Agree. Why are YOU not paying for your own kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My plan is #1.

We did that for my mom and it worked out well.

We added paid visitors who took her out to lunch/run errands 2-5 times a week.

This is the best approach. Don’t underestimate the need for
additional paid help, even if they are in an assisted living or nursing home costing thousands a month, and even if you and/or siblings are visiting regularly. You always will need or want extra help.

Curious then about why it isn't better to plan to live in your own house and pay for 24/7 live-in help (or is it 16 hours a day?).

If you are going to have spend a ton on paid help anyway, why not just decide to move to a place where you can live on one floor (ranch or at least main bedroom and bath on first floor) vs. paying a ton for the facility + paid help.

Ususally cost is a factor.

Paid in-home 24/7 help is about $24K per month (at roughly $35/hour)…assuming no nursing-level care needed.

This kind of help plus medication management plus room/board in an assisted living community is only $10-12K/month. Maaayyybe $15-16 K if it’s super nice!
Again—that includes food, apartment, housekeeping, caregiver assistance, Med management, etc.

Interesting…so how many hours of extra help are you paying for…or does your $16k per month include paying for the extra help?

Np. Nope.. the 15-16k a month is the regular monthly rent at some assisted living facilities. This is not paying for extra help.

[Anonymous]

Yes to: have your house down to a minimalist situation!

I recently cleared out my late parents’ huge longtime home - it sold in one week. But to get there was grueling and I had the help of another sibling, a Realtor, one surviving parent, contractors, movers and a strict timeline. My parents weren’t collectors or hoarders and were generally very organized BUT I can’t express how much STUFF there was.

I did it all: opened their garage and allowed neighbors to take what they wanted/some friends asked for specific large pieces with parent blessing, lots trashed, significant amount donated, some moved to parent new apartment, even more divvied upon between family members, small amount in storage.

My last parent died 8 months ago and I have yet to open up two moving boxes of loose papers and photos - jumbled “important” items we cleared out of the apartment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no single answer; it depends on finances, relationships, location. Conversations and planning with a good estate attorney are important. Having contingency plans is important. Being realistic about what people will actually do is important. If you have a child that is distant they probably are not going to be a significant part of your life as you age.

I hate senior living communities and will do everything I can to avoid it. It’s quite a ways off for me, but I will make my home as appropriate for aging in place as possible. I also know how important it is to remain active physically and mentally. Maintaining my independence is very important to me, so that’s a major priority for me.

I update my estate plan as needed and have made choices to minimize tax, minimize labor, and minimize decision making (including my final arrangements).

One thing I have done as I’ve taken care of elders is write letters to myself. I’ve taken note of the things that were very difficult for me as a caretaker, things that I really wished my family member had done differently, and things that worked. As I’m aging, I hope those letters will help me remember lessons learned from the caretaking side of the fence.

So...what is the plan when you can no longer reasonably care for yourself? Will you interview various in-home agencies when you are relatively capable and then have that lined up at the appropriate time? Will you be in any condition to even make that call? Will your family be close by?

Note that going to a 55+ community doesn't eliminate the need for these conversations and decisions. A 55+ community is just a dwelling in a community that doesn't allow younger people to buy in. Those communities don't make any decisions for you. You still need to decide when you need help and you have to find someone to help you and some way to pay for it.

Assisted living does provide care, but the residents are more like 80+, not 55+.

[Anonymous]

PP above and I should get a blog but my ILs have four cars, a 2 car garage packed to the literal rafters and a full unfinished basement filled with a lifetime of furniture and unfinished projects and junk.

Already told DH that when that time comes he should plan to call a junk hauler, pay a few grand and be done. I will not help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely I will choose to go to Switzerland or hopefully in a least one state in the United States aid in dying will be available for everyone who wants it.

Seeing both my mother and aunt live with dementia has been awful. Both my cousin and I are bearing the brunt of the work while we both have one semi-supported sibling and one estranged sibling who won't help out or visit because they are too busy. It has broken apart our family. I don't want that to happen to my kids. I have no desire to live with dementia and experience that nightmare.

I also don't want to burn through 1 million dollars that my mother will have used by the time she dies. She is now on year 7 with seemingly no end in sight. She is eventually going to end up spending all her money and ending up in a state run nursing home. She has five grandchildren who could have used that money for graduate school, a down payment on a house, etc. I would much rather any grandchildren have that opportunity and advantage.

I don’t get the $1MM comment…is it different if your mom was healthy but decided to join a $150k per year country club and live it up?

Aren’t the parents responsible for their own children?

I wrote the post about the million dollars. If my mother spent 150K at a country club I would be ecstatic. If she had the mental ability to travel around the world on a private jet and see the gorillas (her dream) or take a cruise down the Nile and see pyramids and spent 1 million dollars it would be amazing. If she wanted to go spend a million dollars on cooking lessons in Italy or drinking wine in France, that would be awesome.

It is just tragic that she is having to spend it in a way she absolutely never wanted to live. She obsesses about people stealing, can't remember talking on the phone to her sister once a few minutes have passed, she can barely walk, barely talk, she has delusions people are in her apartment in her assisted living place. She called me and told me my father called her and wanted a divorce (he has been dead 15 years). She talked about giving her grandchildren money for college and cars when they could drive. We always told her to spend the money on herself and die without a penny.

I would never ever want a million dollars to go toward keeping me alive 10 years not remembering anything, physically weak and confused, etc. It is a complete waste of money. I would never do that to my kids or hopefully future grandkids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely I will choose to go to Switzerland or hopefully in a least one state in the United States aid in dying will be available for everyone who wants it.

Seeing both my mother and aunt live with dementia has been awful. Both my cousin and I are bearing the brunt of the work while we both have one semi-supported sibling and one estranged sibling who won't help out or visit because they are too busy. It has broken apart our family. I don't want that to happen to my kids. I have no desire to live with dementia and experience that nightmare.

I also don't want to burn through 1 million dollars that my mother will have used by the time she dies. She is now on year 7 with seemingly no end in sight. She is eventually going to end up spending all her money and ending up in a state run nursing home. She has five grandchildren who could have used that money for graduate school, a down payment on a house, etc. I would much rather any grandchildren have that opportunity and advantage.

Meaning what exactly…that as soon as you receive the first diagnosis of dementia but are still 90% with it you will get on a plane?

Just trying to understand what anyone practically is saying when you post this.

I've been looking into this more as my dad declines with FTD. I think about what would happen if I was diagnosed in my 50s with FTD. You really do have to be committed to take action while you're at 90%, and I doubt the majority of people who are being so cavalier will be able to do so. You also have to get your diagnosis very early at the soonest symptoms because once you start declining, you won't have the executive function to do all the things people are saying (POA/plane/Sweden). My dad still doesn't realize the severity of his dementia despite being unable to understand people or communicate half of the time. He thinks he can't remember words sometimes but is otherwise fine.

You need the help of a loved one who has bought into the plan. I have told every loved one that I do not want to live with dementia. In Canada they are proposing that you can preplan and declare if you read a certain state of dementia you can uses assisted dying. For example, once I am at a certain stage on cognitive testing like the Montreal Cognitive Assessment (MoCA) Test for Dementia. If I score 17 (moderate cognitive impairment/ dementia) or below I wouldn't want to be alive anymore.

[Anonymous]

Continuing Care Retirement Community

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely I will choose to go to Switzerland or hopefully in a least one state in the United States aid in dying will be available for everyone who wants it.

Seeing both my mother and aunt live with dementia has been awful. Both my cousin and I are bearing the brunt of the work while we both have one semi-supported sibling and one estranged sibling who won't help out or visit because they are too busy. It has broken apart our family. I don't want that to happen to my kids. I have no desire to live with dementia and experience that nightmare.

I also don't want to burn through 1 million dollars that my mother will have used by the time she dies. She is now on year 7 with seemingly no end in sight. She is eventually going to end up spending all her money and ending up in a state run nursing home. She has five grandchildren who could have used that money for graduate school, a down payment on a house, etc. I would much rather any grandchildren have that opportunity and advantage.

Meaning what exactly…that as soon as you receive the first diagnosis of dementia but are still 90% with it you will get on a plane?

Just trying to understand what anyone practically is saying when you post this.

I've been looking into this more as my dad declines with FTD. I think about what would happen if I was diagnosed in my 50s with FTD. You really do have to be committed to take action while you're at 90%, and I doubt the majority of people who are being so cavalier will be able to do so. You also have to get your diagnosis very early at the soonest symptoms because once you start declining, you won't have the executive function to do all the things people are saying (POA/plane/Sweden). My dad still doesn't realize the severity of his dementia despite being unable to understand people or communicate half of the time. He thinks he can't remember words sometimes but is otherwise fine.

You need the help of a loved one who has bought into the plan. I have told every loved one that I do not want to live with dementia. In Canada they are proposing that you can preplan and declare if you read a certain state of dementia you can uses assisted dying. For example, once I am at a certain stage on cognitive testing like the Montreal Cognitive Assessment (MoCA) Test for Dementia. If I score 17 (moderate cognitive impairment/ dementia) or below I wouldn't want to be alive anymore.

You make it sound so simple for your poor children to have to decide it’s time to kill mom because of how she scored on a test.

That’s not how it will go, at all. You will be a different you by then. Your children won’t have you killed. You will find some enjoyment in every day, even if you’re not as smart and independent as you are now, until one day your body stops working.

[Anonymous]

After dealing with my own aging parents and in laws, I have the solution.

1. Get the finances and house organized.

2. Medically assisted suicide at 70ish. Certainly no later than 75.

I'm not interested in being an old person, and I'm not interested in being a burden to my kids. I'll leave them an easy to read excel
Spreadsheet with all the bank account information, my log ins and passwords, and then make a true Irish goodbye.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely I will choose to go to Switzerland or hopefully in a least one state in the United States aid in dying will be available for everyone who wants it.

Seeing both my mother and aunt live with dementia has been awful. Both my cousin and I are bearing the brunt of the work while we both have one semi-supported sibling and one estranged sibling who won't help out or visit because they are too busy. It has broken apart our family. I don't want that to happen to my kids. I have no desire to live with dementia and experience that nightmare.

I also don't want to burn through 1 million dollars that my mother will have used by the time she dies. She is now on year 7 with seemingly no end in sight. She is eventually going to end up spending all her money and ending up in a state run nursing home. She has five grandchildren who could have used that money for graduate school, a down payment on a house, etc. I would much rather any grandchildren have that opportunity and advantage.

Meaning what exactly…that as soon as you receive the first diagnosis of dementia but are still 90% with it you will get on a plane?

Just trying to understand what anyone practically is saying when you post this.

I've been looking into this more as my dad declines with FTD. I think about what would happen if I was diagnosed in my 50s with FTD. You really do have to be committed to take action while you're at 90%, and I doubt the majority of people who are being so cavalier will be able to do so. You also have to get your diagnosis very early at the soonest symptoms because once you start declining, you won't have the executive function to do all the things people are saying (POA/plane/Sweden). My dad still doesn't realize the severity of his dementia despite being unable to understand people or communicate half of the time. He thinks he can't remember words sometimes but is otherwise fine.

Yeah—my mom went through this and was the one thing she didn’t want. Yet she had a stroke and is now incapable of making a decision that we all know she would want. Saying off yourself in Switzerland is a great plan until you’re incapable of doing so, which is, frankly, what happens to most people. My husband is adamant about not moving into a graduated care facility and I see why. But not doing so and having catastrophe hit is so much worse. I do NOT want my kids to have to figure out my care. Hard for them, and, seriously, I’d rather have control over my Plan B. It would be great if I had a heart attack after dinner and mind blowing sex on Christmas, but that is unlikely to happen, so I’d best figure out what I can live with when I can’t wipe my rear end. (My dad does this for my mom. I do NOT want my husband to do this for me. Nor, of course, do I want to spend the day in soiled underwear. So plan B it is!!!)