What's the best elder model to unburden our own children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the idea of living in a community solely comprised of old people to be profoundly depressing.

I thought this too till I took a tour with my parents. It was like a mini college campus. There were lots of activities, clubs, and social events. The dining options were quite good. It was not like a nursing home where people are just waiting to die.

And IMO the most important part is that you are guaranteed a Smooth transition (in a CCRC) to the higher level of care. Meaning, the IL living spouse can Walk (all inside) to see their spouse in higher level care. They can even (if appropriate) take them "out and back to IL" for the day under their own supervision (if at a lower level of memory care or assisted living). Being able to see your spouse daily is huge for both spouses wanting to stay alive and being content.

I've heard of too many friends whose parents end up at different facilities and you have to make an effort to transport them for a few hours on weekends to see each other.

Also even in the higher level care, it's more enjoyable when you likely already know some of your fellow residents from IL times.

You just want to check, however, about the costs when one spouse moves to higher level care. The prices can change. My ILs waited too long to move into one of these places (e.g., into a a 1 or 2 BR unit) and now can’t do so as MiL does not qualify as independent living, even if they have FT help. They can’t afford to pay for one of them to be in IL and one to be in memory care.

That said, my mom thrived when she made the pivot from living alone to one of these residences. She simply needed more socialization than what she could get remaining in her house. Even the staff commented on it as that is not everyone’s experience.

Well yes, the key is to gain admission to a CCRC while both are still in IndLiving and no signs of needing more care. For my parents, the only added cost for more care is the extra meals. Even if one remains in IL and one is in higher care. Same if both are in Higher level care (although at that point they have to vacate the IL apartment). That is why they do health checks/phsyicals, and financial checks. And why you pay a high entry fee. In the end, it might be cheaper to do it all on your own, but the stress of managing it can be difficult. I know friends who have one parent in one facility and the other 20 miles away. It's a burden for their parents to see each other and they decline rapidly when that happens. Fact is a High level great IL facility (CCRC) will keep people active, mentally involved longer than if you live alone. So people live longer and remain in IL longer because of that. And ultimately are happier

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the idea of living in a community solely comprised of old people to be profoundly depressing.

Not when you are 75+. These people are active, many social events. My parents are more social now than when they lived in their house. Swim aerobic classes, chair yoga, etc---tons of classes to keep them active. Chorus groups, knitting, games, you name it they have it. I've seen 2 100+ yo with the Tuesday knitting group---would not know those ladies were 100+, most likely because of the social activities to keep them young (both still living in IL and very active for their age).
It's quiet after 8/9pm, not that it's ever very loud. Everyone eats by 6:30pm, so when you go to dinner at 5 everyone is there.

The Independent living part is very nice.

There is at least one family where the "parents" are in their 90s and in Ind Living in an apartment, and the "kid and her husband" just moved into a Duplex within last year (she is 68). Know them because my mom used to work for her and I worked summers for her. So they have all the services and activities available, but still live in a "house" (duplex) and a bit more away from it all feel at their "young age". But mom (dad has passed) is 5 mins away so they can see her daily.

Right now in my 50s, I wouldn't want to be in one. But I would definately consider one by mid 70s. However, we are UHNW so can/could afford to stay at home if we choose with full time care.

Seems like that may be too late (I guess depending on your physical shape?). I appreciate that your financial situation allows you more flexibility...but I wonder is this something you seriously think about at 70? What would anyone guess is the average age?

I'm the PP. At my parents place, the average age for Duplexes/single story TH (there are only 30 of them) is 60-66. Average age to enter the Independent living (apartment style in the main buildings) is probably 65-70. Most want to get in while they can enjoy the facility and unburden themselves of the responsibilities of owning a home. Some of the apartments are 1500-1700 sq ft---more space than anyone would ever need when retired.

My parents entered at 77/78. Took years to convince them to move, and then had to accept us paying the entry fee. Once they made the choice we jumped on it. They wished they had listened and done it sooner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the idea of living in a community solely comprised of old people to be profoundly depressing.

I thought this too till I took a tour with my parents. It was like a mini college campus. There were lots of activities, clubs, and social events. The dining options were quite good. It was not like a nursing home where people are just waiting to die.

And IMO the most important part is that you are guaranteed a Smooth transition (in a CCRC) to the higher level of care. Meaning, the IL living spouse can Walk (all inside) to see their spouse in higher level care. They can even (if appropriate) take them "out and back to IL" for the day under their own supervision (if at a lower level of memory care or assisted living). Being able to see your spouse daily is huge for both spouses wanting to stay alive and being content.

I've heard of too many friends whose parents end up at different facilities and you have to make an effort to transport them for a few hours on weekends to see each other.

Also even in the higher level care, it's more enjoyable when you likely already know some of your fellow residents from IL times.

I wish my parents had enough savings for a CCRC for exactly this reason. My dad will be in memory care soon, and my mom will be driving every day to visit. I know that will take a toll on her. She will feel compelled to visit and spend lots of time there or else feel guilty, but what is she going to do when she visits? Sit there and listen to all the residents talk nonsense? It's going to be soul crushing. I wish they could be in a CCRC or some other facility with mixed care levels. She could instead visit a few times a day but for short visits just to make contact and check in. Or bring him back to her apartment to visit with the dog, but then return him to memory care if he gets agitated or overly confused.

There is a higher end CCRC near me that is like a college dorm or campus like a PP mentioned, and that is my retirement goal.

Your description is accurate! My parents talk all the time about the residents who do just that ---bring the memory care or assisted living person back to IL/apartment for part of the day and take them to meals in IL. For the early stages of Memory care and assisted living this is often possible. And I think (it only seems logical) would make everyone happier--everyone gets to feel like "the old days" yet have the safety/comfort of knowing you can easily return them to the care when they are tired (or the caregiving parent is exhausted). I cannot imagine having to drive daily to see a spouse. Same for my parents---it will also be easier for them to admit when they need to transition to memory care or assisted living and get their doctor to fill out the forms simply because they know it's not a huge change.

the assisted living/memory care/nursing care part is safe (especially for memory care that is needed), they have a HUGE outdoor area so in nice weather they take residents outside as much as possible (nature is a good thing for everyone).
They have a pet therapy dog, that was gotten as a puppy (just under a year). He is trained and does well with the residents. The IL residents can even sign up and volunteer to walk him (my parents did for a bit when physically able to and literally every phone call used to start with them telling me about the dog and their adventures on walks)

But for memory care/assisted living/nursing care, he lives on campus and spends 7am until 8pm with the residents. He brings them great joy (as you cannot have your own pets anywhere but IL), and it's just well known that therapy dogs are good for elderly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the idea of living in a community solely comprised of old people to be profoundly depressing.

I thought this too till I took a tour with my parents. It was like a mini college campus. There were lots of activities, clubs, and social events. The dining options were quite good. It was not like a nursing home where people are just waiting to die.

And IMO the most important part is that you are guaranteed a Smooth transition (in a CCRC) to the higher level of care. Meaning, the IL living spouse can Walk (all inside) to see their spouse in higher level care. They can even (if appropriate) take them "out and back to IL" for the day under their own supervision (if at a lower level of memory care or assisted living). Being able to see your spouse daily is huge for both spouses wanting to stay alive and being content.

I've heard of too many friends whose parents end up at different facilities and you have to make an effort to transport them for a few hours on weekends to see each other.

Also even in the higher level care, it's more enjoyable when you likely already know some of your fellow residents from IL times.

You just want to check, however, about the costs when one spouse moves to higher level care. The prices can change. My ILs waited too long to move into one of these places (e.g., into a a 1 or 2 BR unit) and now can’t do so as MiL does not qualify as independent living, even if they have FT help. They can’t afford to pay for one of them to be in IL and one to be in memory care.

That said, my mom thrived when she made the pivot from living alone to one of these residences. She simply needed more socialization than what she could get remaining in her house. Even the staff commented on it as that is not everyone’s experience.

Well yes, the key is to gain admission to a CCRC while both are still in IndLiving and no signs of needing more care. For my parents, the only added cost for more care is the extra meals. Even if one remains in IL and one is in higher care. Same if both are in Higher level care (although at that point they have to vacate the IL apartment). That is why they do health checks/phsyicals, and financial checks. And why you pay a high entry fee. In the end, it might be cheaper to do it all on your own, but the stress of managing it can be difficult. I know friends who have one parent in one facility and the other 20 miles away. It's a burden for their parents to see each other and they decline rapidly when that happens. Fact is a High level great IL facility (CCRC) will keep people active, mentally involved longer than if you live alone. So people live longer and remain in IL longer because of that. And ultimately are happier

MiL just didn't want to give up their all-on-one-floor downsize where they had relocated about 7 years ago. At some point prior to the move, DH asked me for my thoughts (my parents are older so BTDT) and I said that sunk costs on the downsize might eat up what could go into the upfront fee. I was less aware about both spouses needing to qualify for IL or I would have also mentioned that.

[Anonymous]

What do you do when one parent is still youthful and active, and the other is declining fast? My dad is 10 years older chronologically, but his biological age is probably 30 years older than my mom. They don't appear to enjoy each other's company anymore. I think they are only still married because it's too much trouble to get a divorce. I assume I will start looking at getting Dad in soon and letting Mom enjoy her life, unencumbered and independent, for as long as possible. They have the money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you do when one parent is still youthful and active, and the other is declining fast? My dad is 10 years older chronologically, but his biological age is probably 30 years older than my mom. They don't appear to enjoy each other's company anymore. I think they are only still married because it's too much trouble to get a divorce. I assume I will start looking at getting Dad in soon and letting Mom enjoy her life, unencumbered and independent, for as long as possible. They have the money.

Money makes a huge, huge difference. If my ILs had unlimited funds, then my guess is my MiL would redo their walk out basement by adding a second BR/BA and a kitchenette, then move FiL downstairs along with a caregiver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you do when one parent is still youthful and active, and the other is declining fast? My dad is 10 years older chronologically, but his biological age is probably 30 years older than my mom. They don't appear to enjoy each other's company anymore. I think they are only still married because it's too much trouble to get a divorce. I assume I will start looking at getting Dad in soon and letting Mom enjoy her life, unencumbered and independent, for as long as possible. They have the money.

What does "declining fast" mean? Is he ambulatory and handling most of the activities of daily living without help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you do when one parent is still youthful and active, and the other is declining fast? My dad is 10 years older chronologically, but his biological age is probably 30 years older than my mom. They don't appear to enjoy each other's company anymore. I think they are only still married because it's too much trouble to get a divorce. I assume I will start looking at getting Dad in soon and letting Mom enjoy her life, unencumbered and independent, for as long as possible. They have the money.

"Getting Dad in" meaning getting him into a CCRC? Because if that's the case, you need to hurry. Once they're both in a CCRC, it's much easier to move one person into assisted living while the other person stays in IL, living their best life.

Until then, your mom should join a lot of clubs, etc. so she makes friends and has reasons to be out and an about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the idea of living in a community solely comprised of old people to be profoundly depressing.

I thought this too till I took a tour with my parents. It was like a mini college campus. There were lots of activities, clubs, and social events. The dining options were quite good. It was not like a nursing home where people are just waiting to die.

And IMO the most important part is that you are guaranteed a Smooth transition (in a CCRC) to the higher level of care. Meaning, the IL living spouse can Walk (all inside) to see their spouse in higher level care. They can even (if appropriate) take them "out and back to IL" for the day under their own supervision (if at a lower level of memory care or assisted living). Being able to see your spouse daily is huge for both spouses wanting to stay alive and being content.

I've heard of too many friends whose parents end up at different facilities and you have to make an effort to transport them for a few hours on weekends to see each other.

Also even in the higher level care, it's more enjoyable when you likely already know some of your fellow residents from IL times.

You just want to check, however, about the costs when one spouse moves to higher level care. The prices can change. My ILs waited too long to move into one of these places (e.g., into a a 1 or 2 BR unit) and now can’t do so as MiL does not qualify as independent living, even if they have FT help. They can’t afford to pay for one of them to be in IL and one to be in memory care.

That said, my mom thrived when she made the pivot from living alone to one of these residences. She simply needed more socialization than what she could get remaining in her house. Even the staff commented on it as that is not everyone’s experience.

Well yes, the key is to gain admission to a CCRC while both are still in IndLiving and no signs of needing more care. For my parents, the only added cost for more care is the extra meals. Even if one remains in IL and one is in higher care. Same if both are in Higher level care (although at that point they have to vacate the IL apartment). That is why they do health checks/phsyicals, and financial checks. And why you pay a high entry fee. In the end, it might be cheaper to do it all on your own, but the stress of managing it can be difficult. I know friends who have one parent in one facility and the other 20 miles away. It's a burden for their parents to see each other and they decline rapidly when that happens. Fact is a High level great IL facility (CCRC) will keep people active, mentally involved longer than if you live alone. So people live longer and remain in IL longer because of that. And ultimately are happier

MiL just didn't want to give up their all-on-one-floor downsize where they had relocated about 7 years ago. At some point prior to the move, DH asked me for my thoughts (my parents are older so BTDT) and I said that sunk costs on the downsize might eat up what could go into the upfront fee. I was less aware about both spouses needing to qualify for IL or I would have also mentioned that.

My parents didn't want to give up their house (the one with multiples sets of stairs) they had lived in for 40+ years. But then they mentally prepared themselves and we jumped on the opportunity when they were ready but just needed our help with the "entry fee". And yes, typically both spouses need to be in IL when you enter. Their analysis assumes you will be in IL for awhile before needing advanced care. They pay about $1500/month more than if they were on just a regular ind pricing as well(That is available now, previously everyone had to be on the full Life Care---whcih I'm glad because it could end up saving us and I like that it is prepaid and we don't have to worry about future high costs).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you do when one parent is still youthful and active, and the other is declining fast? My dad is 10 years older chronologically, but his biological age is probably 30 years older than my mom. They don't appear to enjoy each other's company anymore. I think they are only still married because it's too much trouble to get a divorce. I assume I will start looking at getting Dad in soon and letting Mom enjoy her life, unencumbered and independent, for as long as possible. They have the money.

That is what you do. Either get in home help (if that's affordable long term, and still leaves plenty of money for your mom). But in this case, assisted living or nursing care (or whatever advanced level of care) might be best. So your mom can "get away from it" and just go to visit him daily (or whatever many times per week suits her). That way she can still travel and be more active without feeling guilty or worrying about managing the home health aids/nurses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you do when one parent is still youthful and active, and the other is declining fast? My dad is 10 years older chronologically, but his biological age is probably 30 years older than my mom. They don't appear to enjoy each other's company anymore. I think they are only still married because it's too much trouble to get a divorce. I assume I will start looking at getting Dad in soon and letting Mom enjoy her life, unencumbered and independent, for as long as possible. They have the money.

"Getting Dad in" meaning getting him into a CCRC? Because if that's the case, you need to hurry. Once they're both in a CCRC, it's much easier to move one person into assisted living while the other person stays in IL, living their best life.

Until then, your mom should join a lot of clubs, etc. so she makes friends and has reasons to be out and an about.

+1 If you can afford it, a CCRC is awesome! But get dad in while you still can along with mom. She will automatically have tons of new friends and tons of activities to do daily, all while just having to walk to go see her husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the idea of living in a community solely comprised of old people to be profoundly depressing.

In addition to PP's excellent points, the fact that you live there doesn't mean you aren't ever allowed to leave. Plenty of people, especially in IL, are still traveling, volunteering, etc. Some are even still working, especially if they moved into the CCRC with an older spouse.

If you lived in one, you could take classes that would teach you to use "comprise" correctly. And then, filled with pride in your accomplishment, you could go through life with less self-loathing, even when you, too, get old.

I was taught that the parts compose the whole, the whole comprises parts. Is that not correct?