If you "tiger mom'd" your kids, how did they turn out in college (and beyond)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think I am a tiger mom, but most people would say I am not. I push my kids, but I don't think that Kumon or "prestigious" summer programs (which to be clear, I think have their own benefits but college admission chances are not one of them).

I push them when it comes to what I think matters. Grades, rigor, discipline in their ECs (they cannot quit their core activities and we do the supplemental outside of school stuff only if beneficial to improving). Also being a polite and kinds person is important for life and yes I also think it is helpful professionally and academically.

I'm also extremely loving. So that may not be your definition of a tiger mom. But, I know that if they work hard, they can get near perfect grades in demanding classes, so that's what I expect. Also important to parent the child you have. One of my kids will likely achieve "better" than the other. That's fine. I want that kid to do the best that they can do. Even if that's not a T10, T30 or whatever, that doesn't mean I'm not going to push him. I think it's the journey of pushing yourself in high school that reaps benefits for years to come. Not the college outcome.

Then you obviously do NOT have a kid who you simply cannot push. Had one who was not diagnosed with ADHD until college. But was diagnosed with learning issues and complete lack of Exec Functioning. We got them the help they needed to address this in ES/MS/HS. But we could only "push so much". Go too far and they'd just shut down and you would kill their self esteem. So it's walking a fine line.

Said kid had huge adjustment to college, but graduated in 4 years from a good school (T100---kid had 3.5UW, no AP, 1200 SAT, so good but not stellar student). Got a job and never plans to return to school. They are doing well, they are happy and enjoying life. Will they ever hold a high powered position making $500K+? Likely not. Are they happy and excelling at life? Yes they are---they are getting raises of over 10% which for their industry in last few years is big (many are laying off).

But if I had attempted to tiger mom them in ES/MS/HS it would have had detrimental mental health repricusions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My SIL's sons, two of them, were best friends with a kid who lived across the street. SIL was absolutely vicious about calling the kid's mother a "tiger mom." (And yes, there was an element of racism, SIL is white and the kid's parents are from China.) The kid's parents pushed him very hard academically.

He is now a doctor, finishing up residency. SIL's sons are living in her house, unemployed, playing online video games all night and stealing from her debit card every chance they get. These kids are all mid-30s now.

Shouldn't a doctor be done with residency before their mid-30s? Even a neurosurgeon should be finished around the age of 33.

You win the prize for the most dumbass poster of the day.

Being done with residency in your mid 30s raises zero red flags.

High school = 18
plus 4 years college = 22
plus 4 years med school = 26
plus 3-7 years residency = 29-33

What is happening during those extra years if someone is mid-30s and still finishing residency? Especially if they're not pursuing neurosurgery or another of the rare specialities that takes 7 years after med school.

The new norm is 1-2 gap years after college to make a competitive application as all of that has gone bananas too.

[Anonymous]

What is happening during those extra years if someone is mid-30s and still finishing residency? Especially if they're not pursuing neurosurgery or another of the rare specialities that takes 7 years after med school.

Some people decide to do a post-bacc pre-med thing in their mid-20s or later. Next thing you know, they're performing brain surgery at Stanford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be fair, kids of my circle's tiger moms seem to be doing well.

I don't doubt it. And when they get married, many of them will choose to spend holidays with their spouse's families who are interested in them as human beings and not just what they can achieve.

Yup! You may think they are happy and don't mind how you raised them. But in reality, many did not enjoy it and appreciate being appreciated for whom they are. There is so much more to a person than their GPA and academic achievements. We care more about what they do with their lives. Are they good, kind, generous people? Do other people want to spend time with them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My SIL's sons, two of them, were best friends with a kid who lived across the street. SIL was absolutely vicious about calling the kid's mother a "tiger mom." (And yes, there was an element of racism, SIL is white and the kid's parents are from China.) The kid's parents pushed him very hard academically.

He is now a doctor, finishing up residency. SIL's sons are living in her house, unemployed, playing online video games all night and stealing from her debit card every chance they get. These kids are all mid-30s now.

Shouldn't a doctor be done with residency before their mid-30s? Even a neurosurgeon should be finished around the age of 33.

You win the prize for the most dumbass poster of the day.

Being done with residency in your mid 30s raises zero red flags.

High school = 18
plus 4 years college = 22
plus 4 years med school = 26
plus 3-7 years residency = 29-33

What is happening during those extra years if someone is mid-30s and still finishing residency? Especially if they're not pursuing neurosurgery or another of the rare specialities that takes 7 years after med school.

The new norm is 1-2 gap years after college to make a competitive application as all of that has gone bananas too.

+1. It's common for people to get MAs, or work in a lab right out of undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know about the moms' perspective, but I went to school with some Asian and Asian American kids (I am also Asian American) whose parents pushed them into playing an instrument as a hobby, and perhaps after initially hating practice, they ended up loving music so much that they pursued classical music for undergrad and grad school. Some of the parents were supportive of this arts path, but some did not actually want their kids to pursue music as a career because it is impractical.

You don't have to be a "tiger mom" to encourage music or other arts.

When our kids were young, we made the decision that they should always have one artsy/music activity and one active/sporty activity. so the first 2-3 years, that meant Music Together classes (I'm a musician so recognize the overall value of learning music), and mommy& me active classes like Gymboree or My Gym, etc. Once they were old enough to have an opinion, we let them choose: gymnastics or soccer or tBall or X or Y or Z. And then Piano or violin or voice lessons or x or y or Z. Only rule was: if you selected fall soccer, you were going each week for the duration of the session. If you truly didn't like it after 10 -12 weeks, then we'd search for a new activity the next "session". But you had to see it thru once you selected it.
As they got older, they all selected their own paths and pursued something both artsy/musical and sporty/active. They got to select for each area. All 3 kids selected something by 1st/2nd grade and stuck with it thru HS (and for music they got to select their own instrument choice in Band/Orch when time came) .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not aware of anyone who admits being a true tiger parent, and I am not one , so I would not know. However, I am aware of many many snowplow parents: push teachers to let them into the highest level of something, complain about high school(or middle school) grading, complain about kid not getting first chair(and complain so much the head music teacher asks the actual first chair to give it up), write the essays for them because they say the kid cannot write them correctly, open and manage all the portals for them (after making them apply to 20 million super reaches)……the kids of Every . Single. One. Has floundered in college. Some only temporarily, some more severely and dropped out. Only one of them landed at a Top20, but the rest landed T30-40.

Of course they will "flounder in college". Because none of that was kid driven.
Staring in ES we taught our kids to advocate for themselves (stepping in as appropriate). By HS they managed everything themselves with just a bit of guidance/checking in from parents. We only dealt with teachers/staff when our kid was not succeeding and the issues were real (teacher bullying the kid, not listening when kid is asking for help, etc---our kids had tried and the adults involved were not rising to the occasion, so we sometimes had to step in and help)

we would never complain if our kid wasn't 1st chair---we'd tell them to practice more, offer them private lessons (if they wanted it) and encourage them to strive to do better the next time.

My kids wrote all of their essays in school and for college applications. Yes, we hired a College counselor to help with the process---they only helped with brainstorming and actual editing---our kids did all the work and had to be 110% involved in everything. I cannot imagine writing an essay for my kid at any stage of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My SIL's sons, two of them, were best friends with a kid who lived across the street. SIL was absolutely vicious about calling the kid's mother a "tiger mom." (And yes, there was an element of racism, SIL is white and the kid's parents are from China.) The kid's parents pushed him very hard academically.

He is now a doctor, finishing up residency. SIL's sons are living in her house, unemployed, playing online video games all night and stealing from her debit card every chance they get. These kids are all mid-30s now.

There is a huge world in between those two things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To be fair, kids of my circle's tiger moms seem to be doing well.

I don't doubt it. And when they get married, many of them will choose to spend holidays with their spouse's families who are interested in them as human beings and not just what they can achieve.

Yup! You may think they are happy and don't mind how you raised them. But in reality, many did not enjoy it and appreciate being appreciated for whom they are. There is so much more to a person than their GPA and academic achievements. We care more about what they do with their lives. Are they good, kind, generous people? Do other people want to spend time with them?

Plenty of "normal" parents have kids who won't speak to them or spend holidays with them. Nor does having a good GPA preclude one from doing something with their lives or being a good, kind, generous person that other people want to spend time with. You're thinking in black and white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m probably thought of as a tiger mom. Expected my kids to get all As, play an instrument, etc., but that’s because they seemed easily capable of that. They did great in high school. We are also very close. DD is at a T25 getting lots of Bs, and I don’t love it, to be honest, but she’s happy and excelling at her intellectual extracurricular, so it’s fine. Younger kid is brilliant. And happy. We’ll see what happens to him.

To what do you attribute the differences in grades in high school and college? Does your DD go to a grade deflating college or do you think that high school was easier? Would you have preferred that your DD went to a not T25 but got all As or do you not care anymore?

I attribute the grades in high school to MCPS grade inflation. She didn’t have to work that hard for them. She’s very happy at her school and the name recognition has given her a lot of confidence. I don’t think it’s grade deflating. She’s not working all that hard for her 3.5 GPA, as far as I can tell, and that would disappoint me except that she works extremely hard at her activity and is blossoming in it, intellectually and leadership-wise, so it’s understandable. All in all, I think she’s making choices and figuring things out, and I’m really proud of her. No, I don’t think she should have gone to a lower-ranked school to get better grades. Maybe her grades would have been the same there. Regardless, I long ago decided to make choices for what I thought was the best learning experience for my kid at the time, not a strategic decision about what would help for the next step.

[Anonymous]

There's really such an element of racism to the idea of a tiger mom. The real tiger parents I met are of all races and the ones that really stick out are actually white. Two kids stick out who literally have been pushed and molded by their white parents so hard that they picked out colleges in kindergarten and said they will get in because of (fill in the blank). Their parents will claim their children are just "driven" and they had nothing to do with their child's activities but it's so false. It was always surprising to me how they dictated their child's lives from age 4 or 5 onwards but the people that other parents label tiger moms are the Asian parents who are actually are super relaxed especially compared to those white parents.

[Anonymous]

For OP: https://www.amazon.com/They-Called-Us-Exceptional-Raised/dp/0593442989

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's really such an element of racism to the idea of a tiger mom. The real tiger parents I met are of all races and the ones that really stick out are actually white. Two kids stick out who literally have been pushed and molded by their white parents so hard that they picked out colleges in kindergarten and said they will get in because of (fill in the blank). Their parents will claim their children are just "driven" and they had nothing to do with their child's activities but it's so false. It was always surprising to me how they dictated their child's lives from age 4 or 5 onwards but the people that other parents label tiger moms are the Asian parents who are actually are super relaxed especially compared to those white parents.

+1. Asian parent here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My SIL's sons, two of them, were best friends with a kid who lived across the street. SIL was absolutely vicious about calling the kid's mother a "tiger mom." (And yes, there was an element of racism, SIL is white and the kid's parents are from China.) The kid's parents pushed him very hard academically.

He is now a doctor, finishing up residency. SIL's sons are living in her house, unemployed, playing online video games all night and stealing from her debit card every chance they get. These kids are all mid-30s now.

Shouldn't a doctor be done with residency before their mid-30s? Even a neurosurgeon should be finished around the age of 33.

1-2 years off before med school, which is common, so done w med school 27-28, plus cardiothoracic or neurosurgery adds 7-9 yrs, plus some fellowships (2-3 yrs after residency)are understood by family to be “residency” because not a real job/still training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's really such an element of racism to the idea of a tiger mom. The real tiger parents I met are of all races and the ones that really stick out are actually white. Two kids stick out who literally have been pushed and molded by their white parents so hard that they picked out colleges in kindergarten and said they will get in because of (fill in the blank). Their parents will claim their children are just "driven" and they had nothing to do with their child's activities but it's so false. It was always surprising to me how they dictated their child's lives from age 4 or 5 onwards but the people that other parents label tiger moms are the Asian parents who are actually are super relaxed especially compared to those white parents.

The worst tiger moms that we know are white