Do I stay or do I go?

[Anonymous]

The best thing you can do is read up on the disease and understand it, because right now I think you're taking a lot of things personally (which is normal, it sounds like you had a really complex relationship with her). I understand your mom wasn't the best person, but once dementia/Alzheimer's hits even the nicest mom can turn into a nightmare. Therapy ASAP, because if you want to take this on, you have to separate "old mom" from "new mom" and grow a lot of calluses.

When you first experience the disease, you think it's just forgetfulness. It's so much more than that, and key behavioral features will be anger, apathy, agitation, anger, anxiety, etc. The 36 Hour Day is one of the more popular books. From personal experience, the early/mid stages always magnetize personality traits that were already there for better or for worse. Think of it like second childhood, and she is in the toddler stage where they have nonsensical meltdowns over the most random things and need a routine that is painfully predictable.

Her mind and emotions are not working correctly, and don't push her. Go low info on her. It is so tough in the early stages because they can be so with it but they aren't. But that will change over time sadly.

For example, if you want to do a celebration of life for your dad, do it on your own and don't invite her. If she doesn't want to talk to her friends, that's normal for the disease. They stop being able to relate to other people (lose empathy), and even remember who they are. Sometimes "I don't want to" is a cover for "I can't anymore." When she acts very upset over your food being in the fridge, don't take it personally. Just remind yourself that changes in routine have always been upsetting to her, and now even more so (trait magnetized).

If you can afford it, I would not stay in her house. Give her space. In time she might not even remember your current visit or the disease will progress and you will be dealing with other issues. My relative who was just like your mom and a nightmare to deal with is now very happy and loving again -- with enough medication and memory care.

Definitely try to get the POA if you can, but it's going to be a really delicate situation. If she has a trusted person who isn't you, could they be the POA and then subdelegate it to you? This would only be if there was someone you and she really trusted. And find a new lawyer, because any lawyer who wants to delay a POA signing for someone with cognitive issues is insane to me. Why would you wait until the person is truly incapacitated?

You are an absolute angel for taking all this on. It's tough and awful. Especially on the heels of your dad's traumatic death. You are doing the best you can to care for her! It's okay to be selfish also, and to think of this as your way of protecting your nest egg, since I assume you will be the inheritor.

[Anonymous]

Hey do they have security cameras on the house and does she have at least an AirTag on her keys? A whole ago we had a local elderly woman who was found roaming the streets naked. Hope she is doing better than that but you don’t want to lose track of her. Not sure how you ask her to share location on her phone or get cameras since she is already suspicious and reclusive

[Anonymous]

Adding on that with a neurologist's note stating that she still knew what she was doing, I was able to get a lawyer to draft a POA and AMD for a relative. It may not be too late. The lawyer just wanted a CYA to say she knew what she was doing, and it sounds like your mom does still have the ability if she can drive, do laundry, etc.

You will also want an AMD (Advanced Medical Directive) so you can make medical decisions for her.

I am not sure how you will handle the will. With a broadly drawn POA, you may be able to give yourself the power to draw up a will/trust? Or just leave the estate intestate?

Of course, as a stopgap you can also use Legal Zoom or whatever to draft the papers yourself and then go to the UPS Store for signing/notarizing...I am suggesting this only because you are an only child and you really need these powers to protect/advocate for your mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go for now. You will be coming back. Research her living options. She has money. When you find something, move her - - then worry about the house. Or ..

When you're back, if she is violent, call the police. They arrive, send her to the hospital for an evaluation. They then can't release her to her home because you will state there is no one to care for her at home. And she is placed, by the hospital, somewhere - they are the bad guy. But you knowing what's out there, where she might live, where she might like to live, means you might be able to guide the process.

Thank you, I’m definitely leaning toward leaving next week. I’m so afraid she’s going to attack me again and that I will accidentally hurt her just trying to calm her down. I hope I don’t have to call the police—it’s a pretty small town. If it does come to that, what happens if she’s calmed down by the time they get here and has forgotten what happened? She is already acting like nothings wrong after attacking me. Fortunately, one of my dad’s friends recently dealt with the 3 best local facilities with his mom and has offered to help me evaluate.

OP, you may wish to move her closer to you. What is the reason to keep her there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey do they have security cameras on the house and does she have at least an AirTag on her keys? A whole ago we had a local elderly woman who was found roaming the streets naked. Hope she is doing better than that but you don’t want to lose track of her. Not sure how you ask her to share location on her phone or get cameras since she is already suspicious and reclusive

I’m the poster who suggested calling social services. My friend who is dealing with a similar situation secretly installed ring cameras when she was last there (after her dad had passed). She had not been allowed in the home for several years bc her parents were hiding a hoarding situation, mental illness and an opiate addiction. She installed the cameras on the first floor and it was those cameras that allowed her to determine one day that her mom had not been down stairs all day (from 8 pm the night before to 5 pm the next day.) The mom wasn’t answering the phone, my friend checked the cameras and called a neighbor who broke in the house. Sure enough the mom had fallen in the bathroom over night and had laid there for 12+ hours with a broken hip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't leave a person with dementia on their own, not even for a few weeks. My neighbor ended up falling down the stairs at night and cracking her skull. Wasn't found until the next day and that is with neighbors having to check on her as the kids thought she was okay to live alone. This is after she got lost driving and kept locking herself out of the house, trying the wrong key in the door over and over. "Nope, she is okay."

Too bad doctors don't do any routine cognitive testing of seniors or make having a POA, etc a requirement to receive social security.

I understand what you’re saying, but if she won’t accept help I don’t know what I can do. I can’t stay here forever waiting her out. My presence is clearly of no comfort to her, and is in fact agitating her even more as I disrupt her privacy and routines. So far, she is able to take care of herself, and there are numerous neighbors and friends to help. Ironically, she locked herself out today when she slammed the screen door in a rage and the hook flew up and latched (see my earlier comment). There definitely needs to be better mental and cognitive screening for the elderly. She had her yearly wellness check a couple of months ago and supposedly passed the cursory cognitive check with flying colors.

This happened with my mom—she’s always been paranoid, seemed depressed for decades, lost things, was combative if she forgets something, if she thinks we’re talking down to her, or if someone disagrees with her. She passed a basic cognitive test.

However, a year or so later, she got seriously lost driving, and somehow found her way back many hours later. After this crisis of sorts, she got a neurologist exam, got diagnosed with Alzheimers, and my dad had to go through a court process to become her guardian because there was no POA.

I’m afraid this might be how it has to happen with you and your mom. You'll need to wait for a crisis—hopefully one that does not involve involuntary manslaughter from driving with dementia—and then you’ll finally get a confirming diagnosis. After which you will can go through the court to become her guardian.

Hopefully you can get a second opinion before any catastrophic event happens. Her behavior could be because she’s not sleeping, or she’s almost OCD and is having trouble adjusting to this massive disruption of routine. These and other possibilities should be ruled out first.

So sorry you have to go through this. You do need to take care of your own health first.

Thank you. She seems to be sleeping well, and is eating as usual. She has very rigid routines and is sticking to them. My presence and anything new that comes up seem to be what sets her off. I’m sicker today so am going to lay low. I’ve been trying to get through to Social Security for days, the hours long hold times and sudden disconnects will keep me busy for a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the love of god do not let that woman drive. She'll kill someone. I worked with dementia patients as a CNA when I was very young and considering a nursing career. It's HARD, but you have to rip the bandaid off and get her the help she needs before she starts a fire and burns the house down, or wanders off in the middle of the night. The people who are telling you to leave for a few weeks (!!! OMG !!!) have never been around a person with dementia. You simply don't leave them, let alone for weeks at a time. You need to get her to a safe place, and home alone isn't it. Yes she'll be mad. Yes she'll scream and lash out. Yes you'll feel like a jerk. No that doesn't mean you're doing the wrong thing. Do it.

I respect your opinion, thank you. I will see what I can do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to stay and take over her financial affairs at all costs.
Treat her like a child if need be - don’t ask her, don’t expect her to make decisions.
Get online access to everything she has, find out who the beneficiary is on her accounts etc.
She is a perfect victim of a scammer or abuser.
Please don’t be childish and leave over you “bad cold” or whatever.
You are lucky to be able to stay for an extended time, use the chance.

Thank you for your thoughts. She does nothing online and her desk is locked so I can’t access. I’ve been able to see the retirement and brokerage accounts that my dad handled and have talked to his advisor. If I leave, it will be because I believe she will be better off in the short term to have some time and space to adjust without my aggravating her. She went on a tirade after I said “good morning” today, because how dare I indicate that anything was good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also - as horrible as it sounds, you probably won’t be able to meaningfully step in until there’s been a crisis that forces the issue; things will have to come to a head. For example (as a hypothetical), she locks herself out when you’re not there, becomes agitated and unwell out in the cold and is brought by police to the hospital (for what they call a “social admission.”) Decisions will have to be made with the support of the medical team and the social worker; they can be the “bad guy” and you will step in as her decision-maker. Of course, if she seems fine they will likely just send her back home again, but eventually that won’t be an option.

She actually locked herself out today if you missed my earlier post. And I think you’re absolutely right that this will likely end in a crisis. I just don’t want the crisis to be assaulting me physically to the point I have to call the cops.

DP
Please don’t be dramatic
You can wrestle down an old woman if needed
I just can’t with those people who never had kids and have no idea how to be a responsible person

You’re right, I can take her down, and I could easily break her bones and tear her skin just trying to get her to let go of me. I’m trying to avoid hurting her. She has already grabbed my arm and swung at me. She frequently struck me in the face when I was a child. She is not going to exercise restraint now—it’s up to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's easy to be an armchair quarterback. The fact is that without a DPOA, and no cooperation, there isn't much you can do legally until she degrades enough for a guardianship case.

The things you can do that no one has talked about yet:

1) put an airtag in her car.
2) if there is any possibility of your mom wearing (and charging every night) a modern iwatch, then get her one with cell service, set up the fall notifications, and set up location tracking.
3) Who is the executor of your dad's will? Do you have access to your dad's email? There's a grey area between adding your name to accounts (very difficult), versus making sure that you have passwords for the online access for accounts in order to monitor recurring bill payments.
4) When my parents were in the beginning/moderate stages of dementia, I set up blink cameras very discreetly around the house. This wasn't so I could spy on them 24x7, but helped me know if they were in the kitchen or the basement or upstairs, see if the car was in the driveway, etc.
5) You might be able to set up USPS Informed Delivery, which would give you daily email insight into what mail is arriving.

My parents oscillated along that way for about two years, until my dad had a sudden break and accused the neighbors of stealing from the house. Adult protective services took them to the hospital for evaluation, and they were kept in the hospital until a memory care bed opened up.

In some states you can make an anonymous complaint about someones competence for driving, but honestly right now it sounds like she'd probably pass a re-test.

Unfortunately, while there are some drugs that can delay some symptoms of dementia, they frequently can cause additional anger and suspicion. For someone who is already angry and lashing out there aren't any good dementia medications, so there isn't much for a doctor to do at this point. While she might benefit from anti-anxiety meds, it doesn't sound like she'd be open to them.

I'm sorry OP. It really sucks. And I'm very sorry for the loss of your dad. It's been a hard year for losing dads.

Thank you very much for your condolences and detailed advice. I will see what I can do. She refuses to have a cell phone or any sort of device, but maybe I can come up with something. Also, sadly, dad did not have a will. They did absolutely nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm so sorry OP.

Both of my parents are gone now, after several years of stress, crises, arguments about care, choices I didn't agree with, etc... It's awful.

Here's my two cents:
- you cannot save your parents from who they are and the choices they have made
- your parents spent a lifetime keeping you at bay, not letting you see the truth of what/how they were living. Your father sounds complicit in that.
- You're left trying to change patterns/decisions/attitudes that they have spent decades building. You're wanting to behave (laudably) in ways they have never allowed - even when they are well. So you're not going to be able to reason with your mom, and that is not your fault. In a very real sense this current reality is what they chose and what they built. Your mom will reap what she has sown. I know that sounds terribly harsh, but it's true. If they never let you in then you can't possibly effect a 180degree turnaround now. No one could.

I agree w/ all the posters who said that it will take some sort of crisis to precipitate a situation where you can actually take action or influence an outcome. with any luck that crisis will "just" be a fall, or her locking herself out, or a utility being shut off.

So you can't save her from herself. But you definitely can prepare for what you know is likely in the near future - and you're already doing that. Establishing relationships w/ the attorneys, doctors, neighbors, key friends, etc... will all pay dividends when you have to step in. Given the size of the town, it might even be worth talking w/ the Chief of Police. They are often frontline w/ situations so knowing you have concerns, knowing how to reach you, knowing what you would want them to do (take her to a hospital for instance, rather than letting her go home) might help you at a critical moment.

Documenting the things that concern you now, and any feedback you get from those folks in the next few weeks/months will be good. (There may come a time when it will be helpful to cite reasons why it is not safe for her to live alone - lockouts, falls, stove left on, erratic behavior, etc... Specifics will be helpful.)

Take pictures of utility bills, bank account statements, even her credit cards, may be useful. If you need to pay bills having account numbers will help, passwords are also important if you can find them.

Get a small notebook and put all that utility/credit card/bank account info in it. Keep a list of doctors/attorneys/police/neighbors in there so you have it all handy. Have your parents' social security numbers handy, along w/ the names of their parents, their mothers' maiden names if you can find them, etc...

You might also look into whether there are any geriatric care managers in your mother's area (https://www.aginglifecare.org). She might not accept help (though sometimes people will take help from a stranger in a way they won't from a family member or friend) but someone w/ that expertise could be a great resource for you now, and when the crisis comes.

It was important for me to remember that my parents were adults, who made decisions for themselves that determined a great deal about their last few years. I respected their right to do that, even when I disagreed with them. And I reminded myself that fundamentally I couldn't control what happened.

So, safety first - do anything you can to ensure she's safe now and has a safety net in place. (Sounds like you're doing a lot of that.) Line up resources so that when you are eventually in a position to make decisions on her behalf you have the resources and info you need. Then let yourself off the hook. You did not create this scenario - your parents did. You will do your best, whenever you are able, but you can only do what is possible. Do not beat yourself up for choices they made.

One of the most helpful things anyone ever said to me when I was in similar weeds, was a post here on DCUM. They said "you don't have to set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm." For some reason that became a touchstone for me in terms of maintaining my own sanity, my family's well-being, my job, etc... I hope you can find something similar to help you maintain equilibrium.

Good luck!! I hope your mom will avoid serious nightmares and that eventually you will be able to feel more in charge. No matter what, this too shall pass and I'm here to tell you that there is peace on the other side. It will be bumpy, but you will get there.

I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to write this. Your words are such a comfort to me. You totally get what I’m going through. I’m sorry that your insight is no doubt the result of your own traumatic experience. Thank you for channeling your grief into kindness and generosity to a total stranger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So so tough. I’m sorry. A close friend who is dealing with some similar issues called social services on her mom. You can file an anonymous report and they’ll come do a welfare check. It can be helpful to have documentation if you are eventually going to need to go to court to get control of the situation (as my friend expect to have to do).

Thank you for this advice. I’m looking into what is available locally. The more resources and eyes on her, the better, I think.

[Anonymous]

That is classic dementia, OP. Your mother is in the combative stage. There is not much you can do that won't aggravate her.

If you want to organize a memorial for your father, go ahead.

Until she reaches the stage where she's non-functional and not as aggressive, you can retreat a little, and let whatever happens happen (falls, hospital stays, house in disarray, money wasted on ridiculous things). Keep tabs on her. And when things are at the stage where the hospital says she can't go home and live by herself... that's when you can put her in a home close to you, if you want, and sell the house (there are companies that specialize in selling contents then selling the house itself). Inquire as to waitlist time and price for memory care homes. Spend her money, then when it's all spent down, Medicare will do the rest. Do not spend your money apart from travel and incidentals.

BUT UNDERSTAND THAT HER ANGER IS NOT PERSONAL - IT'S HER DEMENTIA. A majority of elders in the US will have a form of dementia before they die. It can happen to you, or your husband, or any of us. You need to emotionally detach and care for her physical envelope without caring in the least what she thinks or says about you. Or just abandon her, but whatever you decide, just know that right now, her brain is terminally unwell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The best thing you can do is read up on the disease and understand it, because right now I think you're taking a lot of things personally (which is normal, it sounds like you had a really complex relationship with her). I understand your mom wasn't the best person, but once dementia/Alzheimer's hits even the nicest mom can turn into a nightmare. Therapy ASAP, because if you want to take this on, you have to separate "old mom" from "new mom" and grow a lot of calluses.

When you first experience the disease, you think it's just forgetfulness. It's so much more than that, and key behavioral features will be anger, apathy, agitation, anger, anxiety, etc. The 36 Hour Day is one of the more popular books. From personal experience, the early/mid stages always magnetize personality traits that were already there for better or for worse. Think of it like second childhood, and she is in the toddler stage where they have nonsensical meltdowns over the most random things and need a routine that is painfully predictable.

Her mind and emotions are not working correctly, and don't push her. Go low info on her. It is so tough in the early stages because they can be so with it but they aren't. But that will change over time sadly.

For example, if you want to do a celebration of life for your dad, do it on your own and don't invite her. If she doesn't want to talk to her friends, that's normal for the disease. They stop being able to relate to other people (lose empathy), and even remember who they are. Sometimes "I don't want to" is a cover for "I can't anymore." When she acts very upset over your food being in the fridge, don't take it personally. Just remind yourself that changes in routine have always been upsetting to her, and now even more so (trait magnetized).

If you can afford it, I would not stay in her house. Give her space. In time she might not even remember your current visit or the disease will progress and you will be dealing with other issues. My relative who was just like your mom and a nightmare to deal with is now very happy and loving again -- with enough medication and memory care.

Definitely try to get the POA if you can, but it's going to be a really delicate situation. If she has a trusted person who isn't you, could they be the POA and then subdelegate it to you? This would only be if there was someone you and she really trusted. And find a new lawyer, because any lawyer who wants to delay a POA signing for someone with cognitive issues is insane to me. Why would you wait until the person is truly incapacitated?

You are an absolute angel for taking all this on. It's tough and awful. Especially on the heels of your dad's traumatic death. You are doing the best you can to care for her! It's okay to be selfish also, and to think of this as your way of protecting your nest egg, since I assume you will be the inheritor.

Thank you for your kind words and insight. I have been doing some reading and will definitely look into the book. I think the lawyer is ok (highly recommended by friends), and I have hope that I may still be able to get her back there. My dad’s poa was an emergency situation. I was literally racing to the local hospital on a Friday night while he was still lucid before they loaded him on a helicopter for transfer, but wasn’t able to get it signed before he deteriorated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey do they have security cameras on the house and does she have at least an AirTag on her keys? A whole ago we had a local elderly woman who was found roaming the streets naked. Hope she is doing better than that but you don’t want to lose track of her. Not sure how you ask her to share location on her phone or get cameras since she is already suspicious and reclusive

She refuses to have a phone so I’m going to need to get creative. She hasn’t wandered or gotten lost (yet) fortunately.