Do I stay or do I go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to stay and take over her financial affairs at all costs.
Treat her like a child if need be - don’t ask her, don’t expect her to make decisions.
Get online access to everything she has, find out who the beneficiary is on her accounts etc.
She is a perfect victim of a scammer or abuser.
Please don’t be childish and leave over you “bad cold” or whatever.
You are lucky to be able to stay for an extended time, use the chance.

OP needs to seek advice from an Elder Care attorney. What you are proposing she do is illegal without POA and her mother being adjudicated as incompetent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That is classic dementia, OP. Your mother is in the combative stage. There is not much you can do that won't aggravate her.

If you want to organize a memorial for your father, go ahead.

Until she reaches the stage where she's non-functional and not as aggressive, you can retreat a little, and let whatever happens happen (falls, hospital stays, house in disarray, money wasted on ridiculous things). Keep tabs on her. And when things are at the stage where the hospital says she can't go home and live by herself... that's when you can put her in a home close to you, if you want, and sell the house (there are companies that specialize in selling contents then selling the house itself). Inquire as to waitlist time and price for memory care homes. Spend her money, then when it's all spent down, Medicare will do the rest. Do not spend your money apart from travel and incidentals.

BUT UNDERSTAND THAT HER ANGER IS NOT PERSONAL - IT'S HER DEMENTIA. A majority of elders in the US will have a form of dementia before they die. It can happen to you, or your husband, or any of us. You need to emotionally detach and care for her physical envelope without caring in the least what she thinks or says about you. Or just abandon her, but whatever you decide, just know that right now, her brain is terminally unwell.

Me again. My father is in the early stages, in a different country, and it's tough for me to do anything that far away. But for your own health, OP, I read that having elevated HDL cholesterol (the good kind) was found to increase the risk of dementia. So now I'm being a little more careful with my diet. It's not just high blood pressure, or high LDL/triglycerides that are involved in dementia risk. Just FYI...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Adding on that with a neurologist's note stating that she still knew what she was doing, I was able to get a lawyer to draft a POA and AMD for a relative. It may not be too late. The lawyer just wanted a CYA to say she knew what she was doing, and it sounds like your mom does still have the ability if she can drive, do laundry, etc.

You will also want an AMD (Advanced Medical Directive) so you can make medical decisions for her.

I am not sure how you will handle the will. With a broadly drawn POA, you may be able to give yourself the power to draw up a will/trust? Or just leave the estate intestate?

Of course, as a stopgap you can also use Legal Zoom or whatever to draft the papers yourself and then go to the UPS Store for signing/notarizing...I am suggesting this only because you are an only child and you really need these powers to protect/advocate for your mom.

Thank you. When she and I met with the lawyer he did both DPOA and AMD for dad, but it was an emergency situation. I had prepped him that she was having issues and because of the time crunch and her obvious overwhelmedness we elected to come back to hers later. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that because she was ok with doing it for dad that it will work out. We only briefly touched on the issue of no will, but he indicated it may be ok and/or we can straighten it out after the fact. I’m going to meet with him by myself to go over everything in detail before taking my mom back.

[Anonymous]

No will with only 1 child is not a problem, OP. State law will be followed.

Making decisions re: your mom's care and affairs when she becomes incompetent will be proactive by a POA or by court order. You can only do what you can do. Her situation is actually really common. I've known of people who had POAs and wills drawn up and who when they became paranoid or suspicious, changed them. So they are not the be all, end all.

Sorry for the loss of your dad. I'd plan a memorial yourself and move forward with it.

I would not put your mom in memory care far from you, look into places closer. As she declines there will be more hospitalizations. No point in leaving her near familiar people when she has dementia.

A realtor can recommend a company to clear out the house when the time comes, usually sale of more valuable items more than covers it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go for now. You will be coming back. Research her living options. She has money. When you find something, move her - - then worry about the house. Or ..

When you're back, if she is violent, call the police. They arrive, send her to the hospital for an evaluation. They then can't release her to her home because you will state there is no one to care for her at home. And she is placed, by the hospital, somewhere - they are the bad guy. But you knowing what's out there, where she might live, where she might like to live, means you might be able to guide the process.

Thank you, I’m definitely leaning toward leaving next week. I’m so afraid she’s going to attack me again and that I will accidentally hurt her just trying to calm her down. I hope I don’t have to call the police—it’s a pretty small town. If it does come to that, what happens if she’s calmed down by the time they get here and has forgotten what happened? She is already acting like nothings wrong after attacking me. Fortunately, one of my dad’s friends recently dealt with the 3 best local facilities with his mom and has offered to help me evaluate.

OP, you may wish to move her closer to you. What is the reason to keep her there?

She and my dad both grew up here, all of their (and many of my) friends are here. My classmate owns the funeral home handling dad. I would have much more support and peace of mind leaving her here. There are many, many people whom I could count on to look in on her. If I brought her to the dc area I would be it. She hates dc and would never willingly move. And she would be totally against paying dc prices for her care. There are very nice facilities here that she and my father were considering. They just never got around to doing anything. My husband refuses to move here, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey do they have security cameras on the house and does she have at least an AirTag on her keys? A whole ago we had a local elderly woman who was found roaming the streets naked. Hope she is doing better than that but you don’t want to lose track of her. Not sure how you ask her to share location on her phone or get cameras since she is already suspicious and reclusive

I’m the poster who suggested calling social services. My friend who is dealing with a similar situation secretly installed ring cameras when she was last there (after her dad had passed). She had not been allowed in the home for several years bc her parents were hiding a hoarding situation, mental illness and an opiate addiction. She installed the cameras on the first floor and it was those cameras that allowed her to determine one day that her mom had not been down stairs all day (from 8 pm the night before to 5 pm the next day.) The mom wasn’t answering the phone, my friend checked the cameras and called a neighbor who broke in the house. Sure enough the mom had fallen in the bathroom over night and had laid there for 12+ hours with a broken hip.

OP here, that sounds terrible. There’s always someone dealing with a worse situation. I will be contacting social services and also look into options for monitoring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That is classic dementia, OP. Your mother is in the combative stage. There is not much you can do that won't aggravate her.

If you want to organize a memorial for your father, go ahead.

Until she reaches the stage where she's non-functional and not as aggressive, you can retreat a little, and let whatever happens happen (falls, hospital stays, house in disarray, money wasted on ridiculous things). Keep tabs on her. And when things are at the stage where the hospital says she can't go home and live by herself... that's when you can put her in a home close to you, if you want, and sell the house (there are companies that specialize in selling contents then selling the house itself). Inquire as to waitlist time and price for memory care homes. Spend her money, then when it's all spent down, Medicare will do the rest. Do not spend your money apart from travel and incidentals.

BUT UNDERSTAND THAT HER ANGER IS NOT PERSONAL - IT'S HER DEMENTIA. A majority of elders in the US will have a form of dementia before they die. It can happen to you, or your husband, or any of us. You need to emotionally detach and care for her physical envelope without caring in the least what she thinks or says about you. Or just abandon her, but whatever you decide, just know that right now, her brain is terminally unwell.

Thank you for this advice, especially for reminding me that it’s the dementia talking. That is for sure the most difficult part of this for me. She was always so unpredictable when I was a child, and I’m sure she had some sort of undiagnosed and untreated mental illness her whole life. She was always sweet and kind in public, but could be a terror in private. I realized the other day (as I was shaking after she flipped out once again) that the reason her attacks are so hard for me is that it is exactly how it was when I was a kid. Sweet, and then an unexpected verbal (and often physical) outburst—seemingly out of nowhere. I had stuffed all of that trauma way, way down, and moved 600 miles away as soon as I graduated from college just to avoid it. As long as my father was alive, he bore the brunt of her outbursts (and protected me if he was around). Now that he’s gone, I’m it. I’m working on detaching, but it’s really, really hard, when this is exactly how I remember being treated as a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That is classic dementia, OP. Your mother is in the combative stage. There is not much you can do that won't aggravate her.

If you want to organize a memorial for your father, go ahead.

Until she reaches the stage where she's non-functional and not as aggressive, you can retreat a little, and let whatever happens happen (falls, hospital stays, house in disarray, money wasted on ridiculous things). Keep tabs on her. And when things are at the stage where the hospital says she can't go home and live by herself... that's when you can put her in a home close to you, if you want, and sell the house (there are companies that specialize in selling contents then selling the house itself). Inquire as to waitlist time and price for memory care homes. Spend her money, then when it's all spent down, Medicare will do the rest. Do not spend your money apart from travel and incidentals.

BUT UNDERSTAND THAT HER ANGER IS NOT PERSONAL - IT'S HER DEMENTIA. A majority of elders in the US will have a form of dementia before they die. It can happen to you, or your husband, or any of us. You need to emotionally detach and care for her physical envelope without caring in the least what she thinks or says about you. Or just abandon her, but whatever you decide, just know that right now, her brain is terminally unwell.

Me again. My father is in the early stages, in a different country, and it's tough for me to do anything that far away. But for your own health, OP, I read that having elevated HDL cholesterol (the good kind) was found to increase the risk of dementia. So now I'm being a little more careful with my diet. It's not just high blood pressure, or high LDL/triglycerides that are involved in dementia risk. Just FYI...

Wow, thanks—I’ll definitely look into that. I’ve been trying to make sure I eat right and get plenty of rest, but the stress is really wearing me down. I’m so sorry to hear about your dad. I can’t imagine trying to deal with this from an even longer distance. Take care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No will with only 1 child is not a problem, OP. State law will be followed.

Making decisions re: your mom's care and affairs when she becomes incompetent will be proactive by a POA or by court order. You can only do what you can do. Her situation is actually really common. I've known of people who had POAs and wills drawn up and who when they became paranoid or suspicious, changed them. So they are not the be all, end all.

Sorry for the loss of your dad. I'd plan a memorial yourself and move forward with it.

I would not put your mom in memory care far from you, look into places closer. As she declines there will be more hospitalizations. No point in leaving her near familiar people when she has dementia.

A realtor can recommend a company to clear out the house when the time comes, usually sale of more valuable items more than covers it.

Thank you for the advice. The lawyer had indicated the lack of a will probably wouldn’t be that big of an issue, and as you said, just because something’s in place doesn’t mean it can’t be changed. I remember hearing about a family member who frequently changed their will (or at least threatened to). There are so many unknowns ahead, and it’s been so helpful to hear others’ experiences and perspectives. I have a lot to consider. I am a firm believer that everything will work out in the end, even if it’s not how I anticipated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Triage a lis5 of what needs to be done. And try to do the first thing on the list. I would think getting the POA would be first.

Do you think she should drive? If not, this is first on the list.

Thank you. I’m going to follow up with the lawyer and see if he has any ideas for getting it done. I had talked with him before taking her to do my dad’s, and he could see she was too confused to proceed with hers.
Fortunately, her driving seems ok. To my knowledge, she hasn’t gotten lost. She has gone by herself to the grocery, post office and her hairdresser, and made it back in a normal amount of time. When I have taken her places she’s been able to give me directions and knows the streets.

NP. Taking control, moving your mother, liquidating her house, etc. - that is not an option from what you describe, since your mom still has capacity to make her own decisions, despite her struggles. If she’s driving and taking herself to appointments, etc. then you will not be able to get guardianship; that would require two physicians to certify that she cannot participate in decision-making. And you cannot get access to her accounts without her agreement and cooperation.

There is no easy path here, but it sounds like you cannot move in with your mom or stay with her indefinitely, and your presence is agitating her, due to her early dementia. I would go home and let the dust settle. She has people to look after her, which is fortunate.

I’m sorry you’re in this very difficult situation.

Thank you. I’m very sadly coming to the conclusion that there’s really nothing I can do right now. Much like happened with my dad, it’s probably going to take a crisis. Witnessing the roller coaster of his suffering for a month was horrific. I haven’t even been able to process it. But at least I thought I was of some comfort and help to him. In that regard it was nothing compared to this.

Your mom sounds like a hoarder, which in my experience as a former social worker is associated with a certain amount of baseline paranoia, depression, anxiety and maybe OCD/ASD. Any cognitive decline is being layered on top of all that do you’re facing a very uphill battle. You need to prioritize your own physical and mental health. You can decide to visit every 2-4 months with check-ins, sign her up for meals on wheels to ensure she gets done daily contact but I agree that without a crisis your hands are tied. A crisis could come in three months or three years so just pace yourself. You’re doing your best.

[Anonymous]

I mean this with kindness, but I think some time with a therapist to process your childhood would help you. It isn’t clear to me that “this is the dementia talking.” Your mom has always been mentally ill and your dad enabled it. You need to come to terms with this. And then, take it from there.

I plan to do virtually nothing for my alcoholic, train wreck of a dad — but I’m very comfortable with that approach. You likely won’t get there, which is fine. But you also don’t have to do a lot for someone that is physically attacking you. You are not actually responsible for her happiness or health. Having a third party to talk through all this may help you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean this with kindness, but I think some time with a therapist to process your childhood would help you. It isn’t clear to me that “this is the dementia talking.” Your mom has always been mentally ill and your dad enabled it. You need to come to terms with this. And then, take it from there.

I plan to do virtually nothing for my alcoholic, train wreck of a dad — but I’m very comfortable with that approach. You likely won’t get there, which is fine. But you also don’t have to do a lot for someone that is physically attacking you. You are not actually responsible for her happiness or health. Having a third party to talk through all this may help you.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Triage a lis5 of what needs to be done. And try to do the first thing on the list. I would think getting the POA would be first.

Do you think she should drive? If not, this is first on the list.

Thank you. I’m going to follow up with the lawyer and see if he has any ideas for getting it done. I had talked with him before taking her to do my dad’s, and he could see she was too confused to proceed with hers.
Fortunately, her driving seems ok. To my knowledge, she hasn’t gotten lost. She has gone by herself to the grocery, post office and her hairdresser, and made it back in a normal amount of time. When I have taken her places she’s been able to give me directions and knows the streets.

NP. Taking control, moving your mother, liquidating her house, etc. - that is not an option from what you describe, since your mom still has capacity to make her own decisions, despite her struggles. If she’s driving and taking herself to appointments, etc. then you will not be able to get guardianship; that would require two physicians to certify that she cannot participate in decision-making. And you cannot get access to her accounts without her agreement and cooperation.

There is no easy path here, but it sounds like you cannot move in with your mom or stay with her indefinitely, and your presence is agitating her, due to her early dementia. I would go home and let the dust settle. She has people to look after her, which is fortunate.

I’m sorry you’re in this very difficult situation.

Thank you. I’m very sadly coming to the conclusion that there’s really nothing I can do right now. Much like happened with my dad, it’s probably going to take a crisis. Witnessing the roller coaster of his suffering for a month was horrific. I haven’t even been able to process it. But at least I thought I was of some comfort and help to him. In that regard it was nothing compared to this.

Your mom sounds like a hoarder, which in my experience as a former social worker is associated with a certain amount of baseline paranoia, depression, anxiety and maybe OCD/ASD. Any cognitive decline is being layered on top of all that do you’re facing a very uphill battle. You need to prioritize your own physical and mental health. You can decide to visit every 2-4 months with check-ins, sign her up for meals on wheels to ensure she gets done daily contact but I agree that without a crisis your hands are tied. A crisis could come in three months or three years so just pace yourself. You’re doing your best.

Thank you for your kind words and insight—I didn’t know about the connection between these characteristics and hoarding. She definitely has hoarding tendencies, but is also very organized and has a talent for decorating and displaying her “collections,” and keeps things clean and tidy. But she’s unable to get rid of things, even when they’re broken or worn out. She grew up very poor and I suspect there was abuse of some kind. I feel so sorry for her because I can tell she is scared and is aware (at times) that she’s losing touch, and it’s making her more determined than ever to hang onto whatever control she has left. I am lining up resources and tying up the loose ends she will allow me to, so that I can take a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to stay and take over her financial affairs at all costs.
Treat her like a child if need be - don’t ask her, don’t expect her to make decisions.
Get online access to everything she has, find out who the beneficiary is on her accounts etc.
She is a perfect victim of a scammer or abuser.
Please don’t be childish and leave over you “bad cold” or whatever.
You are lucky to be able to stay for an extended time, use the chance.

OP needs to seek advice from an Elder Care attorney. What you are proposing she do is illegal without POA and her mother being adjudicated as incompetent.

She doesn’t have to move the money - just make sure it’s not moved by someone else

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That is classic dementia, OP. Your mother is in the combative stage. There is not much you can do that won't aggravate her.

If you want to organize a memorial for your father, go ahead.

Until she reaches the stage where she's non-functional and not as aggressive, you can retreat a little, and let whatever happens happen (falls, hospital stays, house in disarray, money wasted on ridiculous things). Keep tabs on her. And when things are at the stage where the hospital says she can't go home and live by herself... that's when you can put her in a home close to you, if you want, and sell the house (there are companies that specialize in selling contents then selling the house itself). Inquire as to waitlist time and price for memory care homes. Spend her money, then when it's all spent down, Medicare will do the rest. Do not spend your money apart from travel and incidentals.

BUT UNDERSTAND THAT HER ANGER IS NOT PERSONAL - IT'S HER DEMENTIA. A majority of elders in the US will have a form of dementia before they die. It can happen to you, or your husband, or any of us. You need to emotionally detach and care for her physical envelope without caring in the least what she thinks or says about you. Or just abandon her, but whatever you decide, just know that right now, her brain is terminally unwell.

Thank you for this advice, especially for reminding me that it’s the dementia talking. That is for sure the most difficult part of this for me. She was always so unpredictable when I was a child, and I’m sure she had some sort of undiagnosed and untreated mental illness her whole life. She was always sweet and kind in public, but could be a terror in private. I realized the other day (as I was shaking after she flipped out once again) that the reason her attacks are so hard for me is that it is exactly how it was when I was a kid. Sweet, and then an unexpected verbal (and often physical) outburst—seemingly out of nowhere. I had stuffed all of that trauma way, way down, and moved 600 miles away as soon as I graduated from college just to avoid it. As long as my father was alive, he bore the brunt of her outbursts (and protected me if he was around). Now that he’s gone, I’m it. I’m working on detaching, but it’s really, really hard, when this is exactly how I remember being treated as a child.

DP. Then you can pretty much leave her be. Just make sure she doesn’t squander the money. What an awful woman she was.