Do I stay or do I go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean this with kindness, but I think some time with a therapist to process your childhood would help you. It isn’t clear to me that “this is the dementia talking.” Your mom has always been mentally ill and your dad enabled it. You need to come to terms with this. And then, take it from there.

I plan to do virtually nothing for my alcoholic, train wreck of a dad — but I’m very comfortable with that approach. You likely won’t get there, which is fine. But you also don’t have to do a lot for someone that is physically attacking you. You are not actually responsible for her happiness or health. Having a third party to talk through all this may help you.

Thank you for encouraging me to talk to a therapist. I’m realizing that I never resolved the trauma of her unpredictable outbursts. I just stuffed it down, filled my time with activities, and finally, ran away. I am shaking uncontrollably every time she lashes out, so something has to give. I’m so sorry about what you’ve gone through with your dad, and I understand the need to distance yourself. I’m angry and resentful that I’m being forced to do this, but I can see I’m going to have to pull away to save myself. Fortunately, between friends of the family, resources in the community, and my father’s investments, my mom can be well cared for, regardless of whether she accepts my help or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also - as horrible as it sounds, you probably won’t be able to meaningfully step in until there’s been a crisis that forces the issue; things will have to come to a head. For example (as a hypothetical), she locks herself out when you’re not there, becomes agitated and unwell out in the cold and is brought by police to the hospital (for what they call a “social admission.”) Decisions will have to be made with the support of the medical team and the social worker; they can be the “bad guy” and you will step in as her decision-maker. Of course, if she seems fine they will likely just send her back home again, but eventually that won’t be an option.

She actually locked herself out today if you missed my earlier post. And I think you’re absolutely right that this will likely end in a crisis. I just don’t want the crisis to be assaulting me physically to the point I have to call the cops.

DP
Please don’t be dramatic
You can wrestle down an old woman if needed
I just can’t with those people who never had kids and have no idea how to be a responsible person

You’re right, I can take her down, and I could easily break her bones and tear her skin just trying to get her to let go of me. I’m trying to avoid hurting her. She has already grabbed my arm and swung at me. She frequently struck me in the face when I was a child. She is not going to exercise restraint now—it’s up to me.

What a terrible woman she is. No wonder you are scared of her. Sorry I was harsh.
Make sure she doesn’t hurt you one last time by leaving you without the money.
But honestly I wouldn’t care much about her well being

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That is classic dementia, OP. Your mother is in the combative stage. There is not much you can do that won't aggravate her.

If you want to organize a memorial for your father, go ahead.

Until she reaches the stage where she's non-functional and not as aggressive, you can retreat a little, and let whatever happens happen (falls, hospital stays, house in disarray, money wasted on ridiculous things). Keep tabs on her. And when things are at the stage where the hospital says she can't go home and live by herself... that's when you can put her in a home close to you, if you want, and sell the house (there are companies that specialize in selling contents then selling the house itself). Inquire as to waitlist time and price for memory care homes. Spend her money, then when it's all spent down, Medicare will do the rest. Do not spend your money apart from travel and incidentals.

BUT UNDERSTAND THAT HER ANGER IS NOT PERSONAL - IT'S HER DEMENTIA. A majority of elders in the US will have a form of dementia before they die. It can happen to you, or your husband, or any of us. You need to emotionally detach and care for her physical envelope without caring in the least what she thinks or says about you. Or just abandon her, but whatever you decide, just know that right now, her brain is terminally unwell.

Thank you for this advice, especially for reminding me that it’s the dementia talking. That is for sure the most difficult part of this for me. She was always so unpredictable when I was a child, and I’m sure she had some sort of undiagnosed and untreated mental illness her whole life. She was always sweet and kind in public, but could be a terror in private. I realized the other day (as I was shaking after she flipped out once again) that the reason her attacks are so hard for me is that it is exactly how it was when I was a kid. Sweet, and then an unexpected verbal (and often physical) outburst—seemingly out of nowhere. I had stuffed all of that trauma way, way down, and moved 600 miles away as soon as I graduated from college just to avoid it. As long as my father was alive, he bore the brunt of her outbursts (and protected me if he was around). Now that he’s gone, I’m it. I’m working on detaching, but it’s really, really hard, when this is exactly how I remember being treated as a child.

DP. Then you can pretty much leave her be. Just make sure she doesn’t squander the money. What an awful woman she was.

The thing is, she wasn’t _always_ awful. She could be (and was always, in public) such a sweet, nice person. I have many good memories. She was always kind to my friends. My dad and I were the only ones who ever saw the other side of her. But frankly, I can’t help but wonder if it might have been easier if she had just been awful all the time. It’s the unpredictability—then, and now—that’s so hard to deal with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also - as horrible as it sounds, you probably won’t be able to meaningfully step in until there’s been a crisis that forces the issue; things will have to come to a head. For example (as a hypothetical), she locks herself out when you’re not there, becomes agitated and unwell out in the cold and is brought by police to the hospital (for what they call a “social admission.”) Decisions will have to be made with the support of the medical team and the social worker; they can be the “bad guy” and you will step in as her decision-maker. Of course, if she seems fine they will likely just send her back home again, but eventually that won’t be an option.

She actually locked herself out today if you missed my earlier post. And I think you’re absolutely right that this will likely end in a crisis. I just don’t want the crisis to be assaulting me physically to the point I have to call the cops.

DP
Please don’t be dramatic
You can wrestle down an old woman if needed
I just can’t with those people who never had kids and have no idea how to be a responsible person

You’re right, I can take her down, and I could easily break her bones and tear her skin just trying to get her to let go of me. I’m trying to avoid hurting her. She has already grabbed my arm and swung at me. She frequently struck me in the face when I was a child. She is not going to exercise restraint now—it’s up to me.

What a terrible woman she is. No wonder you are scared of her. Sorry I was harsh.
Make sure she doesn’t hurt you one last time by leaving you without the money.
But honestly I wouldn’t care much about her well being

I understood where you were coming from. I can’t help but feel sorry for her. I honestly think she’s been mentally ill her whole life. Throw dementia on top and it’s a disaster. Sure, she was volatile, but there were many good times. It’s really the unpredictability that is so hard on me because it takes me right back to being a child. I’m not ready to abandon her, but I can see I’m going to have to pull back. As for the money, I just want her to have it for her care. She could live quite well for the rest of her life on the interest alone. But since it doesn’t look like I’ll be able to have any control, anything could happen. I have already resigned myself to the possibility that I may never see a dime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That is classic dementia, OP. Your mother is in the combative stage. There is not much you can do that won't aggravate her.

If you want to organize a memorial for your father, go ahead.

Until she reaches the stage where she's non-functional and not as aggressive, you can retreat a little, and let whatever happens happen (falls, hospital stays, house in disarray, money wasted on ridiculous things). Keep tabs on her. And when things are at the stage where the hospital says she can't go home and live by herself... that's when you can put her in a home close to you, if you want, and sell the house (there are companies that specialize in selling contents then selling the house itself). Inquire as to waitlist time and price for memory care homes. Spend her money, then when it's all spent down, Medicare will do the rest. Do not spend your money apart from travel and incidentals.

BUT UNDERSTAND THAT HER ANGER IS NOT PERSONAL - IT'S HER DEMENTIA. A majority of elders in the US will have a form of dementia before they die. It can happen to you, or your husband, or any of us. You need to emotionally detach and care for her physical envelope without caring in the least what she thinks or says about you. Or just abandon her, but whatever you decide, just know that right now, her brain is terminally unwell.

Thank you for this advice, especially for reminding me that it’s the dementia talking. That is for sure the most difficult part of this for me. She was always so unpredictable when I was a child, and I’m sure she had some sort of undiagnosed and untreated mental illness her whole life. She was always sweet and kind in public, but could be a terror in private. I realized the other day (as I was shaking after she flipped out once again) that the reason her attacks are so hard for me is that it is exactly how it was when I was a kid. Sweet, and then an unexpected verbal (and often physical) outburst—seemingly out of nowhere. I had stuffed all of that trauma way, way down, and moved 600 miles away as soon as I graduated from college just to avoid it. As long as my father was alive, he bore the brunt of her outbursts (and protected me if he was around). Now that he’s gone, I’m it. I’m working on detaching, but it’s really, really hard, when this is exactly how I remember being treated as a child.

DP. Then you can pretty much leave her be. Just make sure she doesn’t squander the money. What an awful woman she was.

The thing is, she wasn’t _always_ awful. She could be (and was always, in public) such a sweet, nice person. I have many good memories. She was always kind to my friends. My dad and I were the only ones who ever saw the other side of her. But frankly, I can’t help but wonder if it might have been easier if she had just been awful all the time. It’s the unpredictability—then, and now—that’s so hard to deal with.

My mother was mentally ill, and it was very hard for me to reconcile the two sides of her - the mom who gave her it all, and the crazy witch that made my life so hard.
Realizing that she didn’t hate me but was ill (depressed and anxious, and a hoarder) made me feel much better.
For years I didn’t realize she wasn’t well.
Honestly I am happy she passed. It’s been such a relief, and now I can put her picture up where she is holding me as a baby and pretend that I had a normal, loving mother.
I hope you find peace eventually too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That is classic dementia, OP. Your mother is in the combative stage. There is not much you can do that won't aggravate her.

If you want to organize a memorial for your father, go ahead.

Until she reaches the stage where she's non-functional and not as aggressive, you can retreat a little, and let whatever happens happen (falls, hospital stays, house in disarray, money wasted on ridiculous things). Keep tabs on her. And when things are at the stage where the hospital says she can't go home and live by herself... that's when you can put her in a home close to you, if you want, and sell the house (there are companies that specialize in selling contents then selling the house itself). Inquire as to waitlist time and price for memory care homes. Spend her money, then when it's all spent down, Medicare will do the rest. Do not spend your money apart from travel and incidentals.

BUT UNDERSTAND THAT HER ANGER IS NOT PERSONAL - IT'S HER DEMENTIA. A majority of elders in the US will have a form of dementia before they die. It can happen to you, or your husband, or any of us. You need to emotionally detach and care for her physical envelope without caring in the least what she thinks or says about you. Or just abandon her, but whatever you decide, just know that right now, her brain is terminally unwell.

Thank you for this advice, especially for reminding me that it’s the dementia talking. That is for sure the most difficult part of this for me. She was always so unpredictable when I was a child, and I’m sure she had some sort of undiagnosed and untreated mental illness her whole life. She was always sweet and kind in public, but could be a terror in private. I realized the other day (as I was shaking after she flipped out once again) that the reason her attacks are so hard for me is that it is exactly how it was when I was a kid. Sweet, and then an unexpected verbal (and often physical) outburst—seemingly out of nowhere. I had stuffed all of that trauma way, way down, and moved 600 miles away as soon as I graduated from college just to avoid it. As long as my father was alive, he bore the brunt of her outbursts (and protected me if he was around). Now that he’s gone, I’m it. I’m working on detaching, but it’s really, really hard, when this is exactly how I remember being treated as a child.

DP. Then you can pretty much leave her be. Just make sure she doesn’t squander the money. What an awful woman she was.

The thing is, she wasn’t _always_ awful. She could be (and was always, in public) such a sweet, nice person. I have many good memories. She was always kind to my friends. My dad and I were the only ones who ever saw the other side of her. But frankly, I can’t help but wonder if it might have been easier if she had just been awful all the time. It’s the unpredictability—then, and now—that’s so hard to deal with.

Same poster that talked about therapy and has the alcoholic dad. That is the thing about bad behavior — it often only comes out in private. It doesn’t mean they weren’t pretty terrible people. And you have to work with a third party to reconcile this and how to proceed.

People LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my dad. He was essentially a local celebrity my whole life. He is charming and charismatic. He had a very successful career. 99.9% of people would be shocked that he drove his kids around drunk, cussed us out, etc.

While I plan to do virtually nothing for him, I am also not particularly demonizing him either. He did the best he could under circumstances where he grew up in terrible poverty and sports was his only exit option. He is desperately insecure and always trying to overcompensate. He was raised by an alcoholic dad himself. I am mostly just sort of neutral to him. I spend very little bandwidth thinking about him — he just isn’t worth it. As an example, he has decided to get sober in his mid-70s (finally got a DUI) and I just sort of don’t care. It is certainly better for the world not to have a drunk driver out there, but I don’t care what he does. It is his life. I’m not invested in whether or not he drinks himself to death. I cannot fix it and I don’t try. I see him in limited doses (like a few hours) a 5 or 6 times a year.

You have to find your own path with your mom. But you don’t have to sacrifice yourself on the altar of her needs — this would be true even if she were the best mom in the world. You have to step back, try to assess the situation for what it actually is and then decide how much emotional, time and financial bandwidth you want to expend on this person. Each person comes to their own conclusion on this stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That is classic dementia, OP. Your mother is in the combative stage. There is not much you can do that won't aggravate her.

If you want to organize a memorial for your father, go ahead.

Until she reaches the stage where she's non-functional and not as aggressive, you can retreat a little, and let whatever happens happen (falls, hospital stays, house in disarray, money wasted on ridiculous things). Keep tabs on her. And when things are at the stage where the hospital says she can't go home and live by herself... that's when you can put her in a home close to you, if you want, and sell the house (there are companies that specialize in selling contents then selling the house itself). Inquire as to waitlist time and price for memory care homes. Spend her money, then when it's all spent down, Medicare will do the rest. Do not spend your money apart from travel and incidentals.

BUT UNDERSTAND THAT HER ANGER IS NOT PERSONAL - IT'S HER DEMENTIA. A majority of elders in the US will have a form of dementia before they die. It can happen to you, or your husband, or any of us. You need to emotionally detach and care for her physical envelope without caring in the least what she thinks or says about you. Or just abandon her, but whatever you decide, just know that right now, her brain is terminally unwell.

Thank you for this advice, especially for reminding me that it’s the dementia talking. That is for sure the most difficult part of this for me. She was always so unpredictable when I was a child, and I’m sure she had some sort of undiagnosed and untreated mental illness her whole life. She was always sweet and kind in public, but could be a terror in private. I realized the other day (as I was shaking after she flipped out once again) that the reason her attacks are so hard for me is that it is exactly how it was when I was a kid. Sweet, and then an unexpected verbal (and often physical) outburst—seemingly out of nowhere. I had stuffed all of that trauma way, way down, and moved 600 miles away as soon as I graduated from college just to avoid it. As long as my father was alive, he bore the brunt of her outbursts (and protected me if he was around). Now that he’s gone, I’m it. I’m working on detaching, but it’s really, really hard, when this is exactly how I remember being treated as a child.

DP. Then you can pretty much leave her be. Just make sure she doesn’t squander the money. What an awful woman she was.

The thing is, she wasn’t _always_ awful. She could be (and was always, in public) such a sweet, nice person. I have many good memories. She was always kind to my friends. My dad and I were the only ones who ever saw the other side of her. But frankly, I can’t help but wonder if it might have been easier if she had just been awful all the time. It’s the unpredictability—then, and now—that’s so hard to deal with.

My mother was mentally ill, and it was very hard for me to reconcile the two sides of her - the mom who gave her it all, and the crazy witch that made my life so hard.
Realizing that she didn’t hate me but was ill (depressed and anxious, and a hoarder) made me feel much better.
For years I didn’t realize she wasn’t well.
Honestly I am happy she passed. It’s been such a relief, and now I can put her picture up where she is holding me as a baby and pretend that I had a normal, loving mother.
I hope you find peace eventually too.

Thank you. This is exactly what I’m going through. I thought my childhood was normal—it was all I knew and outwardly I had a charmed life. She’s so devastated by the loss of my father and is already saying her life is over, she has no one, and she wants to die. As far as I’m concerned she’s already gone and I’m clearly of no comfort to whomever this person is now, so it will indeed be a relief when this is over. She’s in excellent physical health and her dad lived to 91, brother to 90, and mom to 108, so it could be a long haul. None of them exhibited anything like this.

[Anonymous]

Haven't read all the responses, but it's also time to talk to aging professionals about exploring residential places where they can ensure she is medicated and safe. My mother was just abusive toward me mostly, but when I stepped back more she was abusive toward others. You cannot take advantage of the kindness of others. They want to help assuming she will be a kind and appreciative old lady and you get that warm fizzy feeling. Nobody should be put in harms way. You al least need to warn them about the behaviors for their own safety.

She needs to be evaluated and medicated. Beware of the age in place agencies that sell you the moon and instead find an aging expert to help you find a residential match and that person can help ease her into the idea.Otherwise the behaviors will get worse and while you can't always protect them from thelselves, you must protect others from them. Also, someone needs to be checking on her reflexes, etc periodically to make sure she continues to be safe to drive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That is classic dementia, OP. Your mother is in the combative stage. There is not much you can do that won't aggravate her.

If you want to organize a memorial for your father, go ahead.

Until she reaches the stage where she's non-functional and not as aggressive, you can retreat a little, and let whatever happens happen (falls, hospital stays, house in disarray, money wasted on ridiculous things). Keep tabs on her. And when things are at the stage where the hospital says she can't go home and live by herself... that's when you can put her in a home close to you, if you want, and sell the house (there are companies that specialize in selling contents then selling the house itself). Inquire as to waitlist time and price for memory care homes. Spend her money, then when it's all spent down, Medicare will do the rest. Do not spend your money apart from travel and incidentals.

BUT UNDERSTAND THAT HER ANGER IS NOT PERSONAL - IT'S HER DEMENTIA. A majority of elders in the US will have a form of dementia before they die. It can happen to you, or your husband, or any of us. You need to emotionally detach and care for her physical envelope without caring in the least what she thinks or says about you. Or just abandon her, but whatever you decide, just know that right now, her brain is terminally unwell.

Thank you for this advice, especially for reminding me that it’s the dementia talking. That is for sure the most difficult part of this for me. She was always so unpredictable when I was a child, and I’m sure she had some sort of undiagnosed and untreated mental illness her whole life. She was always sweet and kind in public, but could be a terror in private. I realized the other day (as I was shaking after she flipped out once again) that the reason her attacks are so hard for me is that it is exactly how it was when I was a kid. Sweet, and then an unexpected verbal (and often physical) outburst—seemingly out of nowhere. I had stuffed all of that trauma way, way down, and moved 600 miles away as soon as I graduated from college just to avoid it. As long as my father was alive, he bore the brunt of her outbursts (and protected me if he was around). Now that he’s gone, I’m it. I’m working on detaching, but it’s really, really hard, when this is exactly how I remember being treated as a child.

OP I posted about finding residential, but I also wanted to say I relate to you so much from the mom with undiagnosed mental illness growing up who is not combative when aging to always being polite and gracious as people give suggestions even when people miss the mark. I get it and sadly with us it isn't the dementia talking. It's a worsening of an abusive personality that was always there and well hidden for the outside world. For me it took my own family emergency to learn to detach and just make sure she was properly cared for and not get sucked into any dysfunction. Because I truly could not take another second of an abusive outburst from her with everything else going on, I set the most rigid and firm verbal boundaries that absolutely no outbursts were allowed-no insults, no physical aggression, no yelling. I put her on notice if she physically lashed out police would be called right away and if she tantrumed I would leave and have APS check on her or the social worker I hired. Some say that is insane with someone in early dementia. She tested me and I followed through and she learned what the kids these days say "F around and find out." She has enough cognitive ability to still be able to manage herself. It's exhausting and she tests me, but I am done with bad behavior. Sometimes she punishes me by not speaking to me for months. I simply make sure the professionals are making sure she is OK. She is assessed for reflexes etc to make sure driving is safe. Meds help her behave and when she goes off them of her own accord she lashes out at me, I call her social worker to check on her and the social worker can usually convince her to go back on. You have to save yourself. You don't have to be her punching bag. You just make sure she is as safe as you make her when she has free will and you do your best to make sure she never harms anyone else. My mom is losing her ability to turn it on for others so they are getting a small glimpse of what I have dealt with my whole life.