Betrayal trauma

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel really sad reading all of this. I have never been cheated on by my spouse that I know of. But it really feels like something is off with our society and probably women’s perceptions of their marriages as the be all, end all of their lives and worth.

I have a friend that once put it to me like this: “I love my husband with all my heart. But I’m not blind enough to think that one day he could cheat, or leave, or let me down in some way. Anyone could do this, even the ones that seem to be of solid character. But it’s my job as a woman and a friend to myself to know my worth, and to carry on if he lets me down.” Or something like that.

I’m not trying to blame women who were cheated on for how they feel. I just try to live my life thinking, my DH, despite my love for him, is human and fallible. Life takes all kinds of turns and we really have to be ready for them. To think that every man will remain faithful to every woman they made that promise to is obviously crazy. We know that as humans we simply can’t do this. Millions and millions of both women and men get cheated on, and millions and millions of women and men make themselves ill with worry and heartbreak.

I really think it’s time we compassionately allow ourselves to acknowledge that things won’t always work out, and that we will be ok in spite of it. The alternative is a heartbroken and ill half of the population. And that too much.

This comment is obnoxious in so many ways I don't know where to start.

It could have been written by my ex’s ex-AP. She hated her husband, hated her parents and was so self-centered she could not fathom why a person would be so upset about a long affair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel really sad reading all of this. I have never been cheated on by my spouse that I know of. But it really feels like something is off with our society and probably women’s perceptions of their marriages as the be all, end all of their lives and worth.

I have a friend that once put it to me like this: “I love my husband with all my heart. But I’m not blind enough to think that one day he could cheat, or leave, or let me down in some way. Anyone could do this, even the ones that seem to be of solid character. But it’s my job as a woman and a friend to myself to know my worth, and to carry on if he lets me down.” Or something like that.

I’m not trying to blame women who were cheated on for how they feel. I just try to live my life thinking, my DH, despite my love for him, is human and fallible. Life takes all kinds of turns and we really have to be ready for them. To think that every man will remain faithful to every woman they made that promise to is obviously crazy. We know that as humans we simply can’t do this. Millions and millions of both women and men get cheated on, and millions and millions of women and men make themselves ill with worry and heartbreak.

I really think it’s time we compassionately allow ourselves to acknowledge that things won’t always work out, and that we will be ok in spite of it. The alternative is a heartbroken and ill half of the population. And that too much.

This comment is obnoxious in so many ways I don't know where to start.

Not all of us want to wrap our worth and health around one single person who may or may not keep a promise they made to us years ago. Doesn’t make us obnoxious, just realists.

PP here and I am not a betrayed spouse. You are obnoxious, and not a realist, because if you were a realist you would know that life has a way of humbling you and it's foolhardy to think you would respond better than these women have.

+1, I'm not a betrayed spouse either but one of my pet peeves is when people who haven't experienced something tell people who have to feel differently about it. It's so obnoxious. People feel how they feel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You guys don't get it. It's not just the cheating. It's the lying, sneaking around. It's other people finding out before you do and talking about it behind your back while you walk around totally unaware and people say "wow she's so clueless" behind your back.

I can imagine a cheating scenario where it really is "just" cheating. A very discrete fling or a one night stand or even a series of one night stands, where no one else knows and you work through it as a couple and it hurts but doesn't upend your whole world.

But people on this thread aren't talking about that kind of infidelity. They are talking about betrayal. Like your DH had a three year affair with his ex-girlfriend who is now pregnant. That kind of betrayal. The kind you don't move on from quickly. The kind that results in you waking up like a year later and remembering a dinner party you went to and realizing that your host knew about the affair and the pregnancy and was so nice to you but also said nothing and you just sat their oblivious, looking like a total idiot.

The actual act of cheating is really just the half of it.

Yep

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel really sad reading all of this. I have never been cheated on by my spouse that I know of. But it really feels like something is off with our society and probably women’s perceptions of their marriages as the be all, end all of their lives and worth.

I have a friend that once put it to me like this: “I love my husband with all my heart. But I’m not blind enough to think that one day he could cheat, or leave, or let me down in some way. Anyone could do this, even the ones that seem to be of solid character. But it’s my job as a woman and a friend to myself to know my worth, and to carry on if he lets me down.” Or something like that.

I’m not trying to blame women who were cheated on for how they feel. I just try to live my life thinking, my DH, despite my love for him, is human and fallible. Life takes all kinds of turns and we really have to be ready for them. To think that every man will remain faithful to every woman they made that promise to is obviously crazy. We know that as humans we simply can’t do this. Millions and millions of both women and men get cheated on, and millions and millions of women and men make themselves ill with worry and heartbreak.

I really think it’s time we compassionately allow ourselves to acknowledge that things won’t always work out, and that we will be ok in spite of it. The alternative is a heartbroken and ill half of the population. And that too much.

As an independent career woman who anyone that knows me has said I don’t put up with sh@t and they joke how I’d toss my husband out immediately….

Reality is so different when you go through this. It is absolutely nothing like you thought or would believe. NOTHING. Is not the “wife thing”, it’s not an identity problem it’s a wound a deep deep wound and your universe literally is upside down and you no longer trust those strong instincts of yours. You don’t believe anyone anymore—it makes you paranoid—even among friends.

Movies and books do not portray it. When you have kids to protect and think about it’s even harder. It’s like how you have zero idea what being a parent is like until you are in it,,,and you have had to deal with a heartbreaking diagnosis of a child or tried to protect them. You know as a non-parent what you think you would do: but you can’t fathom all the emotions, etc.

Anyone who says “I’ve never been cheated on, but..”, please, just stop right there. Don’t go on.[b] And, for the record, I was saying “I’ve never been cheated on” when I was actually being cheated on.

And I’ll add, betrayed by an ongoing affair in a marriage — not a ONS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel really sad reading all of this. I have never been cheated on by my spouse that I know of. But it really feels like something is off with our society and probably women’s perceptions of their marriages as the be all, end all of their lives and worth.

I have a friend that once put it to me like this: “I love my husband with all my heart. But I’m not blind enough to think that one day he could cheat, or leave, or let me down in some way. Anyone could do this, even the ones that seem to be of solid character. But it’s my job as a woman and a friend to myself to know my worth, and to carry on if he lets me down.” Or something like that.

I’m not trying to blame women who were cheated on for how they feel. I just try to live my life thinking, my DH, despite my love for him, is human and fallible. Life takes all kinds of turns and we really have to be ready for them. To think that every man will remain faithful to every woman they made that promise to is obviously crazy. We know that as humans we simply can’t do this. Millions and millions of both women and men get cheated on, and millions and millions of women and men make themselves ill with worry and heartbreak.

I really think it’s time we compassionately allow ourselves to acknowledge that things won’t always work out, and that we will be ok in spite of it. The alternative is a heartbroken and ill half of the population. And that too much.

As an independent career woman who anyone that knows me has said I don’t put up with sh@t and they joke how I’d toss my husband out immediately….

Reality is so different when you go through this. It is absolutely nothing like you thought or would believe. NOTHING. Is not the “wife thing”, it’s not an identity problem it’s a wound a deep deep wound and your universe literally is upside down and you no longer trust those strong instincts of yours. You don’t believe anyone anymore—it makes you paranoid—even among friends.

Movies and books do not portray it. When you have kids to protect and think about it’s even harder. It’s like how you have zero idea what being a parent is like until you are in it,,,and you have had to deal with a heartbreaking diagnosis of a child or tried to protect them. You know as a non-parent what you think you would do: but you can’t fathom all the emotions, etc.

Anyone who says “I’ve never been cheated on, but..”, please, just stop right there. Don’t go on. And, for the record, I was saying “I’ve never been cheated on” when I was actually being cheated on.

I’ve watched several close to me going through this lately and I am certain I don’t know all the truly awful details,, supporting role but very angry on their behalf. Friends and family feel a sort of betrayal too when these people pretend to be what they are not in front of all of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You guys don't get it. It's not just the cheating. It's the lying, sneaking around. It's other people finding out before you do and talking about it behind your back while you walk around totally unaware and people say "wow she's so clueless" behind your back.

I can imagine a cheating scenario where it really is "just" cheating. A very discrete fling or a one night stand or even a series of one night stands, where no one else knows and you work through it as a couple and it hurts but doesn't upend your whole world.

But people on this thread aren't talking about that kind of infidelity. They are talking about betrayal. Like your DH had a three year affair with his ex-girlfriend who is now pregnant. That kind of betrayal. The kind you don't move on from quickly. The kind that results in you waking up like a year later and remembering a dinner party you went to and realizing that your host knew about the affair and the pregnancy and was so nice to you but also said nothing and you just sat their oblivious, looking like a total idiot.

The actual act of cheating is really just the half of it.

So it's better if he has a two year affair but you know about it the whole time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys don't get it. It's not just the cheating. It's the lying, sneaking around. It's other people finding out before you do and talking about it behind your back while you walk around totally unaware and people say "wow she's so clueless" behind your back.

I can imagine a cheating scenario where it really is "just" cheating. A very discrete fling or a one night stand or even a series of one night stands, where no one else knows and you work through it as a couple and it hurts but doesn't upend your whole world.

But people on this thread aren't talking about that kind of infidelity. They are talking about betrayal. Like your DH had a three year affair with his ex-girlfriend who is now pregnant. That kind of betrayal. The kind you don't move on from quickly. The kind that results in you waking up like a year later and remembering a dinner party you went to and realizing that your host knew about the affair and the pregnancy and was so nice to you but also said nothing and you just sat their oblivious, looking like a total idiot.

The actual act of cheating is really just the half of it.

So it's better if he has a two year affair but you know about it the whole time?

Is it really an affair if you know about it and do anything?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys don't get it. It's not just the cheating. It's the lying, sneaking around. It's other people finding out before you do and talking about it behind your back while you walk around totally unaware and people say "wow she's so clueless" behind your back.

I can imagine a cheating scenario where it really is "just" cheating. A very discrete fling or a one night stand or even a series of one night stands, where no one else knows and you work through it as a couple and it hurts but doesn't upend your whole world.

But people on this thread aren't talking about that kind of infidelity. They are talking about betrayal. Like your DH had a three year affair with his ex-girlfriend who is now pregnant. That kind of betrayal. The kind you don't move on from quickly. The kind that results in you waking up like a year later and remembering a dinner party you went to and realizing that your host knew about the affair and the pregnancy and was so nice to you but also said nothing and you just sat their oblivious, looking like a total idiot.

The actual act of cheating is really just the half of it.

So it's better if he has a two year affair but you know about it the whole time?

Yes 100% this would be better because if you know you can make choices. I'm not saying that would be great or I'd like it, but for these commenters saying that OP or PPs are being overly dramatic when they say they still haven't recovered many years later, what they are missing is that the lying and sneaking around is central to the betrayal, not incidental.

This is also why emotional affairs can be so damaging. The act of actually having s*x with another person when you've promised not to is hurtful, but for many people the part that hurts the most is the emotional betrayal and the lying, being made an outsider or even an interloper in your own marriage.

I think the emotional response to this might be biological coded and trigger the fear that humans once felt about being on the outside of a tribe. Humans are pack animals and we form families and communities in large part because we are weak, vulnerability animals whose needs are best met in a group. A spouse is often your most concrete, reliable community tie. If that person lies to you as they form a bond with someone else, I think it triggers a hormonal fear response, like you've been pushed to the fringes of the tribe and are now more vulnerable to predatory animals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel really sad reading all of this. I have never been cheated on by my spouse that I know of. But it really feels like something is off with our society and probably women’s perceptions of their marriages as the be all, end all of their lives and worth.

I have a friend that once put it to me like this: “I love my husband with all my heart. But I’m not blind enough to think that one day he could cheat, or leave, or let me down in some way. Anyone could do this, even the ones that seem to be of solid character. But it’s my job as a woman and a friend to myself to know my worth, and to carry on if he lets me down.” Or something like that.

I’m not trying to blame women who were cheated on for how they feel. I just try to live my life thinking, my DH, despite my love for him, is human and fallible. Life takes all kinds of turns and we really have to be ready for them. To think that every man will remain faithful to every woman they made that promise to is obviously crazy. We know that as humans we simply can’t do this. Millions and millions of both women and men get cheated on, and millions and millions of women and men make themselves ill with worry and heartbreak.

I really think it’s time we compassionately allow ourselves to acknowledge that things won’t always work out, and that we will be ok in spite of it. The alternative is a heartbroken and ill half of the population. And that too much.

I agree, my mom died this summer and everybody was like "oh i'm so sorry, my mom died and I think of her every day" and I'm like moms die get over it. I can't imagine being so attached to a mom that her death is on your mind every day.

The alternative is a heartbroken and ill whole population... everybody's mom is going to die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel really sad reading all of this. I have never been cheated on by my spouse that I know of. But it really feels like something is off with our society and probably women’s perceptions of their marriages as the be all, end all of their lives and worth.

I have a friend that once put it to me like this: “I love my husband with all my heart. But I’m not blind enough to think that one day he could cheat, or leave, or let me down in some way. Anyone could do this, even the ones that seem to be of solid character. But it’s my job as a woman and a friend to myself to know my worth, and to carry on if he lets me down.” Or something like that.

I’m not trying to blame women who were cheated on for how they feel. I just try to live my life thinking, my DH, despite my love for him, is human and fallible. Life takes all kinds of turns and we really have to be ready for them. To think that every man will remain faithful to every woman they made that promise to is obviously crazy. We know that as humans we simply can’t do this. Millions and millions of both women and men get cheated on, and millions and millions of women and men make themselves ill with worry and heartbreak.

I really think it’s time we compassionately allow ourselves to acknowledge that things won’t always work out, and that we will be ok in spite of it. The alternative is a heartbroken and ill half of the population. And that too much.

I agree, my mom died this summer and everybody was like "oh i'm so sorry, my mom died and I think of her every day" and I'm like moms die get over it. I can't imagine being so attached to a mom that her death is on your mind every day.

The alternative is a heartbroken and ill whole population... everybody's mom is going to die.

What are your diagnoses? I'm curious

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel really sad reading all of this. I have never been cheated on by my spouse that I know of. But it really feels like something is off with our society and probably women’s perceptions of their marriages as the be all, end all of their lives and worth.

I have a friend that once put it to me like this: “I love my husband with all my heart. But I’m not blind enough to think that one day he could cheat, or leave, or let me down in some way. Anyone could do this, even the ones that seem to be of solid character. But it’s my job as a woman and a friend to myself to know my worth, and to carry on if he lets me down.” Or something like that.

I’m not trying to blame women who were cheated on for how they feel. I just try to live my life thinking, my DH, despite my love for him, is human and fallible. Life takes all kinds of turns and we really have to be ready for them. To think that every man will remain faithful to every woman they made that promise to is obviously crazy. We know that as humans we simply can’t do this. Millions and millions of both women and men get cheated on, and millions and millions of women and men make themselves ill with worry and heartbreak.

I really think it’s time we compassionately allow ourselves to acknowledge that things won’t always work out, and that we will be ok in spite of it. The alternative is a heartbroken and ill half of the population. And that too much.

I agree, my mom died this summer and everybody was like "oh i'm so sorry, my mom died and I think of her every day" and I'm like moms die get over it. I can't imagine being so attached to a mom that her death is on your mind every day.

The alternative is a heartbroken and ill whole population... everybody's mom is going to die.

PP my mom was abusive and I sort of feel the way you do (moms die) but I think it's totally normal for someone who had a loving parent to grieve them for years. The lack of empathy in your comment is a bit disturbing.

Also, I think one reason we have so much depression and other mental illness in our society is because so many people are heartbroken or grieving over one thing or another, and instead of loving and supporting each other through it, we have this attitude that people should just get over it and never discuss it again. I think it's keeping it inside and pretending everything is fine that actually harms people.

Just my two cents.

[Anonymous]

I experienced complex PTSD from betrayal trauma in a relationship in which my then DH cheated on me with a wide variety of other women, while I was pregnant no less.

The PTSD came from the repeated lying over time about what he was doing.

I couldn't begin to get over it until I was out of the relationship with him, and even then I couldn't fully get over it until the point when my youngest kid was in HS and basically old enough that I didn't have to be in touch with exDH for anything. Since his behavior was pathological lying being in touch with him and being the recipient of more lies and unreliability was just like a new trauma every time.

Now that I can grey-rock him and not answer his calls, I am much better. But, in another sense I will never heal or recover, because I will never have trust like that in people again, particularly not men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel really sad reading all of this. I have never been cheated on by my spouse that I know of. But it really feels like something is off with our society and probably women’s perceptions of their marriages as the be all, end all of their lives and worth.

I have a friend that once put it to me like this: “I love my husband with all my heart. But I’m not blind enough to think that one day he could cheat, or leave, or let me down in some way. Anyone could do this, even the ones that seem to be of solid character. But it’s my job as a woman and a friend to myself to know my worth, and to carry on if he lets me down.” Or something like that.

I’m not trying to blame women who were cheated on for how they feel. I just try to live my life thinking, my DH, despite my love for him, is human and fallible. Life takes all kinds of turns and we really have to be ready for them. To think that every man will remain faithful to every woman they made that promise to is obviously crazy. We know that as humans we simply can’t do this. Millions and millions of both women and men get cheated on, and millions and millions of women and men make themselves ill with worry and heartbreak.

I really think it’s time we compassionately allow ourselves to acknowledge that things won’t always work out, and that we will be ok in spite of it. The alternative is a heartbroken and ill half of the population. And that too much.

As an independent career woman who anyone that knows me has said I don’t put up with sh@t and they joke how I’d toss my husband out immediately….

Reality is so different when you go through this. It is absolutely nothing like you thought or would believe. NOTHING. Is not the “wife thing”, it’s not an identity problem it’s a wound a deep deep wound and your universe literally is upside down and you no longer trust those strong instincts of yours. You don’t believe anyone anymore—it makes you paranoid—even among friends.

Movies and books do not portray it. When you have kids to protect and think about it’s even harder. It’s like how you have zero idea what being a parent is like until you are in it,,,and you have had to deal with a heartbreaking diagnosis of a child or tried to protect them. You know as a non-parent what you think you would do: but you can’t fathom all the emotions, etc.

Anyone who says “I’ve never been cheated on, but..”, please, just stop right there. Don’t go on.[b] And, for the record, I was saying “I’ve never been cheated on” when I was actually being cheated on.

And I’ll add, betrayed by an ongoing affair in a marriage — not a ONS.

PP here and you’re mistaking the entire sentiment of my post. I never once said anything from the perspective of whether a cheating victim should stay or go. What I’m saying is that far too many people, both men and women, base their happiness and worth on the actions and commitment of their spouse. With so many humans demonstrating that they simply can’t or won’t remain faithful, I am opining why we as a society continue to have this hard expectation that others will honor us in the way we think they should. We’ve seen that many spouses don’t. And for this reason, I am making the statement that perhaps we should go into relationships with our eyes open that sometimes, and even frequently, those we love and who love us do unfortunately let us down. I am and always have been prepared, just like my friend shared many years ago, to take a different path in life if I find myself in that position. I’ve always been more of the mindset of the impermanence of all things. The Buddhists say the attachment to outcomes is what causes us pain. I’m a Christian woman, FWIW, who just has a different perspective I suppose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel really sad reading all of this. I have never been cheated on by my spouse that I know of. But it really feels like something is off with our society and probably women’s perceptions of their marriages as the be all, end all of their lives and worth.

I have a friend that once put it to me like this: “I love my husband with all my heart. But I’m not blind enough to think that one day he could cheat, or leave, or let me down in some way. Anyone could do this, even the ones that seem to be of solid character. But it’s my job as a woman and a friend to myself to know my worth, and to carry on if he lets me down.” Or something like that.

I’m not trying to blame women who were cheated on for how they feel. I just try to live my life thinking, my DH, despite my love for him, is human and fallible. Life takes all kinds of turns and we really have to be ready for them. To think that every man will remain faithful to every woman they made that promise to is obviously crazy. We know that as humans we simply can’t do this. Millions and millions of both women and men get cheated on, and millions and millions of women and men make themselves ill with worry and heartbreak.

I really think it’s time we compassionately allow ourselves to acknowledge that things won’t always work out, and that we will be ok in spite of it. The alternative is a heartbroken and ill half of the population. And that too much.

As an independent career woman who anyone that knows me has said I don’t put up with sh@t and they joke how I’d toss my husband out immediately….

Reality is so different when you go through this. It is absolutely nothing like you thought or would believe. NOTHING. Is not the “wife thing”, it’s not an identity problem it’s a wound a deep deep wound and your universe literally is upside down and you no longer trust those strong instincts of yours. You don’t believe anyone anymore—it makes you paranoid—even among friends.

Movies and books do not portray it. When you have kids to protect and think about it’s even harder. It’s like how you have zero idea what being a parent is like until you are in it,,,and you have had to deal with a heartbreaking diagnosis of a child or tried to protect them. You know as a non-parent what you think you would do: but you can’t fathom all the emotions, etc.

Anyone who says “I’ve never been cheated on, but..”, please, just stop right there. Don’t go on.[b] And, for the record, I was saying “I’ve never been cheated on” when I was actually being cheated on.

And I’ll add, betrayed by an ongoing affair in a marriage — not a ONS.

PP here and you’re mistaking the entire sentiment of my post. I never once said anything from the perspective of whether a cheating victim should stay or go. What I’m saying is that far too many people, both men and women, base their happiness and worth on the actions and commitment of their spouse. With so many humans demonstrating that they simply can’t or won’t remain faithful, I am opining why we as a society continue to have this hard expectation that others will honor us in the way we think they should. We’ve seen that many spouses don’t. And for this reason, I am making the statement that perhaps we should go into relationships with our eyes open that sometimes, and even frequently, those we love and who love us do unfortunately let us down. I am and always have been prepared, just like my friend shared many years ago, to take a different path in life if I find myself in that position. I’ve always been more of the mindset of the impermanence of all things. The Buddhists say the attachment to outcomes is what causes us pain. I’m a Christian woman, FWIW, who just has a different perspective I suppose.

You don't actually have a different perspective, you just don't understand what these commenters are saying.

[Anonymous]

Is this another way of saying your husband cheated?