Thanksgiving 'dynamic' and how to prevent/deal with it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your MIL is probably having a hard time not being in her usual, respected, family head role. She's probably spent her life cooking, hostessing, takeing care of people. And now she is shunted aside. Not your fault, OP, but it probably hurts her deeply. And she probably resents that her house was fine and homey for all those years, and now that you have a bigger, fancier one...you get to host. Again, not your fault, not yours to fix, but do have some empathy. Look, when my brother and sister in law bought a big beautiful house all of the sudden it became "Oh, we'll host! We have room, and it will be so much more comfortable." We'd been doing holidays at my modest house for years and years and it was cozy and lovely and warm. Its fine to do holidays at different houses, to rotate and share around...but please never make it about "we have more/bigger/nicer, so we'll host." It just makes people with less than you feel like crap.

How has OP not shown empathy?! She's trying to navigate tricky waters and save face/feelings. She seems to go out of her way to accommodate. She seems to have tons of empathy!

Being asked to be a guest instead of hostess for completely legit reasons (pregnancy and to save other family members significant travel time) does not = "shunting someone aside."

OP's hosting has *nothing to do* with having the bigger house, though clearly people seem to be more comfortable there.

Drama queen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love it if you would "work around" everything as you've described/PPs suggested, but do this one thing...

Ask her directly why she is sitting in your place.

Just to see what she could possibly say to justify that behavior.

Does she even know it's OP's place? We dont do this 'hostessing chair' thing. At all. You sit where you are comfortable. I would probably accidentally use OP's place too.

It is common knowledge that the head and "foot" of a table--seats at the short ends opposite from one another--are the host and hostess seats. Anyone who knows anything about hosting and etiquette would know that. It sounds like OP's MIL knows this full well, if she is a "coffee after dessert" type of old-school person.

[Anonymous]

You should always defer to your elders, OP. If you truly had "manners" and are a "good hostess," you would know that.

[Anonymous]

She always asks about things like "will there be coffee after dessert" when it's already set up because I KNOW they like coffee with dessert; I've never not served that.

You're doing it wrong. No wonder she asks.

(I don't actually care if it's after or with, but traditionally, it's served after dessert.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

She always asks about things like "will there be coffee after dessert" when it's already set up because I KNOW they like coffee with dessert; I've never not served that.

You're doing it wrong. No wonder she asks.

(I don't actually care if it's after or with, but traditionally, it's served after dessert.)

OP here; I mistyped. I brew the coffee while we're eating dessert, but I do serve it after.

That being said, this isn't the Four Seasons; it's my home. So even if I was "doing it wrong," as long as there is both dessert and coffee available, relax and enjoy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should always defer to your elders, OP. If you truly had "manners" and are a "good hostess," you would know that.

[Anonymous]

Ha, ha, I love that you thought of place cards, good idea. I would warn you though that she may rearrange them while you are busy in the kitchen (my relatives have done this).

I second the idea of giving her a specific job or two to keep her busy.

You have a great attitude, OP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love it if you would "work around" everything as you've described/PPs suggested, but do this one thing...

Ask her directly why she is sitting in your place.

Just to see what she could possibly say to justify that behavior.

Does she even know it's OP's place? We dont do this 'hostessing chair' thing. At all. You sit where you are comfortable. I would probably accidentally use OP's place too.

It is common knowledge that the head and "foot" of a table--seats at the short ends opposite from one another--are the host and hostess seats. Anyone who knows anything about hosting and etiquette would know that. It sounds like OP's MIL knows this full well, if she is a "coffee after dessert" type of old-school person.

Let me rephrase. It isn't that I am not aware of the host and hostess seat. It is that I would never have this level of formality with my closest relatives so I would not think - oh, better not use that chair, it's for the hostess. Especially with kids - I tend to sit so I or my husband can help them if needed. If someone said, oh that's my chair, it would be different and of course I would not sit there. However, the thought would not enter my mind unprompted. I also would think that an adult would mention I was sitting in her seat if she found this important. However, I do like coffee after dessert!

[Anonymous]

she e-mailed the family members who would be attending in OCTOBER and told them what dates to arrive and depart, without consulting us

Boundaries people! You hit reply all and make the correction - "We are the hosts, so this is the information you need to know" something along those lines. The precise words are not nearly as important as firmly taking charge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love it if you would "work around" everything as you've described/PPs suggested, but do this one thing...

Ask her directly why she is sitting in your place.

Just to see what she could possibly say to justify that behavior.

Does she even know it's OP's place? We dont do this 'hostessing chair' thing. At all. You sit where you are comfortable. I would probably accidentally use OP's place too.

It is common knowledge that the head and "foot" of a table--seats at the short ends opposite from one another--are the host and hostess seats. Anyone who knows anything about hosting and etiquette would know that. It sounds like OP's MIL knows this full well, if she is a "coffee after dessert" type of old-school person.

Let me rephrase. It isn't that I am not aware of the host and hostess seat. It is that I would never have this level of formality with my closest relatives so I would not think - oh, better not use that chair, it's for the hostess. Especially with kids - I tend to sit so I or my husband can help them if needed. If someone said, oh that's my chair, it would be different and of course I would not sit there. However, the thought would not enter my mind unprompted. I also would think that an adult would mention I was sitting in her seat if she found this important. However, I do like coffee after dessert!

There's a reason why those seats are where they are. The hostess seat is traditionally closest to the kitchen, and with both of her sides unencumbered, she can more easily serve/pass/assist. The host seat also has both sides unencumbered, so he has more room to carve/pass/assist. Yes, it's "traditional," but there is logic/function behind it...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

she e-mailed the family members who would be attending in OCTOBER and told them what dates to arrive and depart, without consulting us

Boundaries people! You hit reply all and make the correction - "We are the hosts, so this is the information you need to know" something along those lines. The precise words are not nearly as important as firmly taking charge.

+1 Maybe not that exact phrasing, but a clear message that--as the hosts--info/logistics will be shared by the hosts, not the MIL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

she e-mailed the family members who would be attending in OCTOBER and told them what dates to arrive and depart, without consulting us

Boundaries people! You hit reply all and make the correction - "We are the hosts, so this is the information you need to know" something along those lines. The precise words are not nearly as important as firmly taking charge.

+1 Maybe not that exact phrasing, but a clear message that--as the hosts--info/logistics will be shared by the hosts, not the MIL.

Here's how I'd do it:

"Thanks to Janice for getting the ball rolling for Thanksgiving planning! We're actually going to eat at around X and the food assignments are as follows:..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love it if you would "work around" everything as you've described/PPs suggested, but do this one thing...

Ask her directly why she is sitting in your place.

Just to see what she could possibly say to justify that behavior.

Does she even know it's OP's place? We dont do this 'hostessing chair' thing. At all. You sit where you are comfortable. I would probably accidentally use OP's place too.

It is common knowledge that the head and "foot" of a table--seats at the short ends opposite from one another--are the host and hostess seats. Anyone who knows anything about hosting and etiquette would know that. It sounds like OP's MIL knows this full well, if she is a "coffee after dessert" type of old-school person.

Let me rephrase. It isn't that I am not aware of the host and hostess seat. It is that I would never have this level of formality with my closest relatives so I would not think - oh, better not use that chair, it's for the hostess. Especially with kids - I tend to sit so I or my husband can help them if needed. If someone said, oh that's my chair, it would be different and of course I would not sit there. However, the thought would not enter my mind unprompted. I also would think that an adult would mention I was sitting in her seat if she found this important. However, I do like coffee after dessert!

There's a reason why those seats are where they are. The hostess seat is traditionally closest to the kitchen, and with both of her sides unencumbered, she can more easily serve/pass/assist. The host seat also has both sides unencumbered, so he has more room to carve/pass/assist. Yes, it's "traditional," but there is logic/function behind it...

I'm sure you're right. What I am suggesting to you (and OP) is that perhaps not everyone cares about this and therefore, perhaps not everyone thinks about this, and therefore, perhaps OP should speak up about her wishes prior to getting irritated about this. Perhaps she has, but I didn't read it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love it if you would "work around" everything as you've described/PPs suggested, but do this one thing...

Ask her directly why she is sitting in your place.

Just to see what she could possibly say to justify that behavior.

Does she even know it's OP's place? We dont do this 'hostessing chair' thing. At all. You sit where you are comfortable. I would probably accidentally use OP's place too.

It is common knowledge that the head and "foot" of a table--seats at the short ends opposite from one another--are the host and hostess seats. Anyone who knows anything about hosting and etiquette would know that. It sounds like OP's MIL knows this full well, if she is a "coffee after dessert" type of old-school person.

Let me rephrase. It isn't that I am not aware of the host and hostess seat. It is that I would never have this level of formality with my closest relatives so I would not think - oh, better not use that chair, it's for the hostess. Especially with kids - I tend to sit so I or my husband can help them if needed. If someone said, oh that's my chair, it would be different and of course I would not sit there. However, the thought would not enter my mind unprompted. I also would think that an adult would mention I was sitting in her seat if she found this important. However, I do like coffee after dessert!

There's a reason why those seats are where they are. The hostess seat is traditionally closest to the kitchen, and with both of her sides unencumbered, she can more easily serve/pass/assist. The host seat also has both sides unencumbered, so he has more room to carve/pass/assist. Yes, it's "traditional," but there is logic/function behind it...

I'm sure you're right. What I am suggesting to you (and OP) is that perhaps not everyone cares about this and therefore, perhaps not everyone thinks about this, and therefore, perhaps OP should speak up about her wishes prior to getting irritated about this. Perhaps she has, but I didn't read it.

She already said in the original post that she plans on using place cards this year to indicate where everyone should sit...sounds like MIL will probably just sit wherever she wants, anyway...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I are about to host Thanksgiving for my husband's family; MIL, FIL, and my husband's aunt and two teenage cousins. They'll all be staying in our house for a few days. I've hosted many events/guests before with my husband, and I think we do a nice job of decorating our home, preparing for guests, and making really good food. I think of even really small and personal details, and try to go out of my way to make every guest feel welcome and comfortable.

I also go out of my way to include others who want to help, and let them know that their contributions are much appreciated. For example, the aunt likes to bring appetizers, so we always ask her to do so. MIL likes to bring desserts, so we always ask her to do so. If someone volunteers to help out, I give them things to do, and always say "thank you." When we celebrate with my husband's family, I try to make their must-have dishes/traditions the focus, and do slip in a few of my own, but do try to celebrate the holiday "their way."

However, my MIL always acts like SHE is the hostess, and tries to take over everything. For example, last year for Christmas (even though it was at our home), she e-mailed the family members who would be attending in OCTOBER and told them what dates to arrive and depart, without consulting us. She "assigned" dishes to family members who had already indicated to me they couldn't make it that year. When she arrives, she always brings TONS more food than we previously discussed, and then gets put out when there's not a lot of room for it/not an opportunity to serve it because the menus have already been planned out, and the tables and serving dishes are already overflowing. She always "announces" when we're going to serve the meal, when we'll serve the dessert, and when it's time to clean up. She even sits in the "hostess chair" at the head of the table, opposite of my husband. She always asks about things like "will there be coffee after dessert" when it's already set up because I KNOW they like coffee with dessert; I've never not served that. She always offers to bring china dishes, even though she knows I have a full set of not only "regular" wedding china, but also a full set of holiday china that my mother gave to me.

All of my husband's family are good people, and for the most part I like their visits; and I appreciate the time and attention they give to my toddler. Look, in the grand scheme of things, I know these are small things. But it's not so much each individual "thing," it's the sense that she is acting like hostess in MY home when I already am a very good hostess. She doesn't need to "fill in gaps" that I am leaving. I'm a good cook, I use nice china and silver and linen, my home is spotlessly clean, each guest has a nice place to sleep, and towels, etc. She doesn't need to "run the show," I've got it covered. And her taking over causes confusion for the other guests, when I'm the one who should be coordinating arrival dates, and when I already have info about who is not coming that year, etc.

So my question is: How do I avoid this dynamic occurring, and how do I deal with it if (and likely when) it pops up this year?
Things I've done/am planning to do:
1) Send an e-mail clarifying logistics/food "assignments"
2) Use place cards and make it clear that I'm sitting in the hostess seat
3) Make extra room in freeze and fridge, and "just deal" with the extra food dynamic as far as storage goes

This is not a MIL vent, this is a known problem that I want to work on finding a good way to address/avoid. I do like her, and I don't need to be told that she raised my DH/I should be grateful/I'll be the MIL someday. Thank you!

This IS a vent, you already seem like you know what to do, so do it. And these are all such small things. You really need some perspective. Dare I say it? She's family, she raised your son, and if she wants to sit in your chair, why is that a big deal?

Those are NOT small things. She is taking over OP's house. She is taking over the planning of OP's Thanksgiving. She is physically pushing OP out of her chair and position as DH's wife. She is no longer the center of DH's life. She is no longer the head of family holidays. Someone else is doing the work of being hostess. It's time for her to step aside and retire the hostess role.