Guess inclusion isn’t viewed as favorably as haughtiness?

[Anonymous]

OP, what are you being excluded from?

The word inclusion has almost become weaponized.

Not everyone is obligated to include everyone in everything. Obligation to be polite—yes. Obligation to revolve her life around you? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to attribute that kind of unfriendly behavior in adults to a lack of social skills, and I never really encountered it until I had DCs and was obligated to interact with other parents at school and in other settings. I was PA president for a couple of years, and I was constantly dealing with people who didn't seem to understand that being arrogant or condescending straight out of the gate is not a good way to win friends and influence people.

All we have here is that OP feels like part of women supporting other women means she should be able to walk into PTA and be friendly and attractive and other women should want to be her friend, and it's not working. That's weird, and you don't need to be arrogant or condescending to not be into that.

It's not weird to make an effort to be friendly to other parents in a school setting where you presumably want to encourage a supportive community and model normal social skills for your kids. I'm not suggesting everyone needs to be friends and have fun together, but OP has described these women as catty and haughty. I would define the inability to be cordial to other people in a PTA meeting or soccer game, even if you don't want to be their friends, as a poor social skill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you had as much of a "glow up" as you think you did, and you are striving. You are going to want to say you aren't striving -- but your use of language, like "social capital" betrays a hyper-vigilance about the social strata. Like I said, you will claim you aren't striving like a 7th grader desperate to be in the popular crowd. But you are. You are just doing it with this ineffective "kind" and "open and fun" stuff, and criticizing what you identify as "haughtiness." There are hierarchies. The sooner you accept your place in them, the better for you.

There really aren’t actually. I guess perhaps you exist in a very insular wealthy suburb perhaps where women act like it’s 7th grade forever…but where I come from people are nice and nice folks gravitate towards one another to enjoy company and socializing. There is no hierarchy whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am grateful that early on I developed the ability to detect drama and bullsh*t from a mile away and I do not engage.

It's not just an ability to detect BS, it's an ability to be comfortably apart from it that matters. Those people can do their drama and BS thing and that's just fine, leave me out of it. I think I'm pleasant and reasonably friendly, but I'm not at all interested in who or what is popular among the mom crowd. Ironically, I suspect some might view me as standoffish lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to attribute that kind of unfriendly behavior in adults to a lack of social skills, and I never really encountered it until I had DCs and was obligated to interact with other parents at school and in other settings. I was PA president for a couple of years, and I was constantly dealing with people who didn't seem to understand that being arrogant or condescending straight out of the gate is not a good way to win friends and influence people.

All we have here is that OP feels like part of women supporting other women means she should be able to walk into PTA and be friendly and attractive and other women should want to be her friend, and it's not working. That's weird, and you don't need to be arrogant or condescending to not be into that.

It's not weird to make an effort to be friendly to other parents in a school setting where you presumably want to encourage a supportive community and model normal social skills for your kids. I'm not suggesting everyone needs to be friends and have fun together, but OP has described these women as catty and haughty. I would define the inability to be cordial to other people in a PTA meeting or soccer game, even if you don't want to be their friends, as a poor social skill.

OP didn't say they weren't being cordial at a PTA meeting, she said that she felt like being friendly wasn't making her interesting or giving her social capital.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am grateful that early on I developed the ability to detect drama and bullsh*t from a mile away and I do not engage.

It's not just an ability to detect BS, it's an ability to be comfortably apart from it that matters. Those people can do their drama and BS thing and that's just fine, leave me out of it. I think I'm pleasant and reasonably friendly, but I'm not at all interested in who or what is popular among the mom crowd. Ironically, I suspect some might view me as standoffish lol.

It’s amazing to me that moms want to continue this kind of social nonsense their whole lives. It was exhausting for like 2 years in middle school I cant imagine doing that forever. Just find people you get along with and enjoy each other. So much easier. Don’t worry about what status or hierarchy exists.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if this is partially due to where you live. I live in a very laid back community. No one cares about your box seats. I'm pretty shy at first and have trouble with the first bits of small talk when getting to know people. I felt very welcomed by the soccer moms and PTA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you had as much of a "glow up" as you think you did, and you are striving. You are going to want to say you aren't striving -- but your use of language, like "social capital" betrays a hyper-vigilance about the social strata. Like I said, you will claim you aren't striving like a 7th grader desperate to be in the popular crowd. But you are. You are just doing it with this ineffective "kind" and "open and fun" stuff, and criticizing what you identify as "haughtiness." There are hierarchies. The sooner you accept your place in them, the better for you.

How does it feel to be a POS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s where’s you live. I moved to Northern California and it’s very inclusive here. Totally different.

Yes. The problem is this area.

People who live here don’t realize how awful it is compared to places that are more about substance than appearance. IMO it’s worse than NYC or most of California (outside of being an actual actor or model in California).

[Anonymous]

I don’t even know what you’re prattling on about and I’m very glad for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have not experienced that in the American suburban school mom circles I've been part of. On the contrary, the friendly extroverts are sought after.

But... you could be describing my extended family in my native country in Europe. So incredibly uptight and haughty. Everyone has to glom on to the highest ranking person, and that person will always look down their nose at everyone else.

Which is why I'm here now

British?!
DHs family is like this too and they can literally find snobbery in everything - the way you decorate, your mannerisms, your word choice, right down to the bags you put your dog poop in - its crazy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, in your story, you were not popular as a kid. And now you are not popular as an adult. You seem to have thought getting a makeover would make you popular as an adult.

The common denominator in these stories is you.

Also, neither children nor adults are required to be “inclusive” to random people if they don’t have a natural friendly connection with them.

It seems like you don’t understand how friends work.

+1

And I'll add, it look me years to learn this about myself. I'm always going to be somewhere in the middle, friends with some, excluded by some, looked upto by some. I'm totally ok with it in my 40s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, in your story, you were not popular as a kid. And now you are not popular as an adult. You seem to have thought getting a makeover would make you popular as an adult.

The common denominator in these stories is you.

Also, neither children nor adults are required to be “inclusive” to random people if they don’t have a natural friendly connection with them.

It seems like you don’t understand how friends work.

I thought OP was saying that now she does have friends but she feels badly about it?

[Anonymous]

I’m low in the pecking order in our immigrant group. It used to sting but ever since I got therapy and learned to direct my thinking and behavior toward achieving my goals (basically focusing on myself), I stopped getting nearly as upset over the way I’m treated and my lack of social capital. I’m too busy focused on my job and my family. Being social is very important to me, but I try not to take it personally anymore.

[Anonymous]

OP, it sounds like you have a history of rejection from groups you want to be a part of that don’t want you.

It sounds like they are not nice people. Ask yourself why you want to be part of that particular group? A group can’t reject you if you aren’t trying to join it. Join the nice mom group instead, there are tons of us out there. We will welcome you. The Queen Bee groups aren’t going to change their ways now, and that’s OK. They can go be awful to each other and we can have fun and be supportive. There is nothing to be gained from seeking out “social capital” and those people never were who you imagined them to be.