Guess inclusion isn’t viewed as favorably as haughtiness?

[Anonymous]

When I was a young woman I experienced a lot of situations where I was intentionally pushed out of social groups. It was painful and eye opening, and I vowed that I would always go out of my way to be inclusive, kind and outgoing as I could so that other women didn’t have to experience the same thing.

Fast forward to being a mom with elementary aged children. I had something of a glow up and confidence boost along the way and really love to see women support each other and have a ton of fun together in this new phase of our lives. For awhile things felt great.

But being in the soccer mom and PTA crowd these days just doesn’t feel good. It seems that socially a lot of women are more interested in moms that have something of a haughty or exclusive air about them. Being open and fun just isn’t what seems to give you social capital. I don’t even think it’s having the ability to offer your friends box seats or something like that. It seems like you just kind of need to be…a little catty be seen as important or worthy.

And no, I’m not annoying or obnoxious, because I know a lot of replies will go there immediately. I’m just trying to understand why a lot of women are attracted to this kind of dynamic. I thought we were all past that by now. Anyone else see or experience this?

[Anonymous]

People are attracted to:

1) People who are like them (interests, hobbies, morals)

2) People with power and status (looks, rank, etc.)

3) To have status at all, somebody has to be lower-ranked/lesser

These are innate to humanity/primates

I'm a grownup and I'm frequently the lesser/uncool one

I don't care much but it is hard to find people to hang out with or to share goals with

[Anonymous]

I'm a helper. When people need help they love me. If they don't need help, I might as well be a doormat.

I have yet to figure out the balance.

[Anonymous]

Yes. I have absolutely seen this. I have made a group of friends only to realize that in order to be friends with them, you can’t really be friends with anyone who doesn’t have much money or isn’t attractive or is overly religious.

I decided not to be friends with them. It’s too much work, and it makes me uncomfortable when they talk about other women (or their children).

I will caution you not to swing too far the other way. Some people are really difficult and their lives are a mess and they don’t have many friends because of this. They need professional help, and that isn’t for you to provide.

[Anonymous]

I don't think you had as much of a "glow up" as you think you did, and you are striving. You are going to want to say you aren't striving -- but your use of language, like "social capital" betrays a hyper-vigilance about the social strata. Like I said, you will claim you aren't striving like a 7th grader desperate to be in the popular crowd. But you are. You are just doing it with this ineffective "kind" and "open and fun" stuff, and criticizing what you identify as "haughtiness." There are hierarchies. The sooner you accept your place in them, the better for you.

[Anonymous]

Think like a 6th grader, act like a 6th grader, and you will be treated like a 6th grader.

[Anonymous]

I have not experienced that in the American suburban school mom circles I've been part of. On the contrary, the friendly extroverts are sought after.

But... you could be describing my extended family in my native country in Europe. So incredibly uptight and haughty. Everyone has to glom on to the highest ranking person, and that person will always look down their nose at everyone else.

Which is why I'm here now

[Anonymous]

Yup, I get it OP. I'm a friendly, helpful person. especially in any setting involving kids because I'm trying to model good behavior for my kid and I just think when you're thrown together with people in that way, being pleasant goes a long way.

Most of the people in the PTA or at my kids' activities are standoffish and a lot of people seem to prefer this approach. I think it's weird. I do think there's a weird psychology where the harder someone seems to please, the more important and worthwhile others view them.

I don't have energy for those games. So I've just stuck with friendly/helpful and have let go of the idea that I will develop lasting friendships with these people. Our kids will eventually not be together (or will be older and more independent).

I already have friends from my pre-kids life and I love hanging with my family so this isn't devastating. It does seem like a missed opportunity to build some community but you can't go that alone so oh well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was a young woman I experienced a lot of situations where I was intentionally pushed out of social groups. It was painful and eye opening, and I vowed that I would always go out of my way to be inclusive, kind and outgoing as I could so that other women didn’t have to experience the same thing.

Fast forward to being a mom with elementary aged children. I had something of a glow up and confidence boost along the way and really love to see women support each other and have a ton of fun together in this new phase of our lives. For awhile things felt great.

But being in the soccer mom and PTA crowd these days just doesn’t feel good. It seems that socially a lot of women are more interested in moms that have something of a haughty or exclusive air about them. Being open and fun just isn’t what seems to give you social capital. I don’t even think it’s having the ability to offer your friends box seats or something like that. It seems like you just kind of need to be…a little catty be seen as important or worthy.

And no, I’m not annoying or obnoxious, because I know a lot of replies will go there immediately. I’m just trying to understand why a lot of women are attracted to this kind of dynamic. I thought we were all past that by now. Anyone else see or experience this?

It seems like women in their 30s and maybe early 40s who have kids this age get caught in this hs like dynamic again. But then when the crap hits the fan as kids get older and problems get bigger/real, then authenticity emerges. Or maybe it just that in your 40s you really start to not GAF.

[Anonymous]

It's hard to tell why someone doesn't vibe with you and it's a mistake to try to guess. But there are lots of other people to make friends with if the PTA isn't working out for you.

[Anonymous]

Yeah. It’s weird that people are still like this. Their kids are mean too. Like mean-girl middle school stuff starting at six or seven years old.

[Anonymous]

It’s where’s you live. I moved to Northern California and it’s very inclusive here. Totally different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah. It’s weird that people are still like this. Their kids are mean too. Like mean-girl middle school stuff starting at six or seven years old.

Still like *what*? Having preferences about who to be friends with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was a young woman I experienced a lot of situations where I was intentionally pushed out of social groups. It was painful and eye opening, and I vowed that I would always go out of my way to be inclusive, kind and outgoing as I could so that other women didn’t have to experience the same thing.

Fast forward to being a mom with elementary aged children. I had something of a glow up and confidence boost along the way and really love to see women support each other and have a ton of fun together in this new phase of our lives. For awhile things felt great.

But being in the soccer mom and PTA crowd these days just doesn’t feel good. It seems that socially a lot of women are more interested in moms that have something of a haughty or exclusive air about them. Being open and fun just isn’t what seems to give you social capital. I don’t even think it’s having the ability to offer your friends box seats or something like that. It seems like you just kind of need to be…a little catty be seen as important or worthy.

And no, I’m not annoying or obnoxious, because I know a lot of replies will go there immediately. I’m just trying to understand why a lot of women are attracted to this kind of dynamic. I thought we were all past that by now. Anyone else see or experience this?

Are the woman at your place of work different from the school moms?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s where’s you live. I moved to Northern California and it’s very inclusive here. Totally different.

Yes. The problem is this area.