Guess inclusion isn’t viewed as favorably as haughtiness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me, the women I become friends with are those who are down to earth and 'real'. They go out without make-up, they don't care if I see their house a mess, they live imperfect lives. They are just themselves and don't take life too seriously. Sometimes those people have money, sometimes they don't. Some are quiet, some are outgoing. I am more attracted to the character / integrity of the person than anything else. I don't like always nice, always sweet, better than thou personaliities so my friends are more tell it like it is people. I am friendly to most everyone but the people I actually develop friendships with are a certain type.

Wtf?

Plenty of people are real and wear makeup. What a bizarre judgment.

You misunderstood. I didn't mean they never wear make-up, just that they are also fine going out without it. They have a this is the real me - and don't need to cover their face or hide their mess or get dressed up etc before going for coffee or whatever. They aren't about aesthetics or perfection or creating an image to show to the world. They are okay with who they really are.

[Anonymous]

Urban areas such as DC, NYC, LA, and SFO tend to attract the most highly status oriented and competitive people OP.

Talking about “inclusion” is just another status signifier to convey that you have the right high-status beliefs. Almost no one really believes in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a young woman I experienced a lot of situations where I was intentionally pushed out of social groups. It was painful and eye opening, and I vowed that I would always go out of my way to be inclusive, kind and outgoing as I could so that other women didn’t have to experience the same thing.

Fast forward to being a mom with elementary aged children. I had something of a glow up and confidence boost along the way and really love to see women support each other and have a ton of fun together in this new phase of our lives. For awhile things felt great.

But being in the soccer mom and PTA crowd these days just doesn’t feel good. It seems that socially a lot of women are more interested in moms that have something of a haughty or exclusive air about them. Being open and fun just isn’t what seems to give you social capital. I don’t even think it’s having the ability to offer your friends box seats or something like that. It seems like you just kind of need to be…a little catty be seen as important or worthy.

And no, I’m not annoying or obnoxious, because I know a lot of replies will go there immediately. I’m just trying to understand why a lot of women are attracted to this kind of dynamic. I thought we were all past that by now. Anyone else see or experience this?

Are the woman at your place of work different from the school moms?

?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was a young woman I experienced a lot of situations where I was intentionally pushed out of social groups. It was painful and eye opening, and I vowed that I would always go out of my way to be inclusive, kind and outgoing as I could so that other women didn’t have to experience the same thing.

Fast forward to being a mom with elementary aged children. I had something of a glow up and confidence boost along the way and really love to see women support each other and have a ton of fun together in this new phase of our lives. For awhile things felt great.

But being in the soccer mom and PTA crowd these days just doesn’t feel good. It seems that socially a lot of women are more interested in moms that have something of a haughty or exclusive air about them. Being open and fun just isn’t what seems to give you social capital. I don’t even think it’s having the ability to offer your friends box seats or something like that. It seems like you just kind of need to be…a little catty be seen as important or worthy.

And no, I’m not annoying or obnoxious, because I know a lot of replies will go there immediately. I’m just trying to understand why a lot of women are attracted to this kind of dynamic. I thought we were all past that by now. Anyone else see or experience this?

Are the woman at your place of work different from the school moms?

?

OP here. Yes, they are terrific.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s where’s you live. I moved to Northern California and it’s very inclusive here. Totally different.

Yes. The problem is this area.

Which area is "this" area ?

I mean, you’re literally on a Washington DC area forum.

Yeah, and SE DC, Bethesda, and Woodbridge are very different places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, in your story, you were not popular as a kid. And now you are not popular as an adult. You seem to have thought getting a makeover would make you popular as an adult.

The common denominator in these stories is you.

Also, neither children nor adults are required to be “inclusive” to random people if they don’t have a natural friendly connection with them.

It seems like you don’t understand how friends work.

+1

I think OP's social skills are not anywhere near par.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you had as much of a "glow up" as you think you did, and you are striving. You are going to want to say you aren't striving -- but your use of language, like "social capital" betrays a hyper-vigilance about the social strata. Like I said, you will claim you aren't striving like a 7th grader desperate to be in the popular crowd. But you are. You are just doing it with this ineffective "kind" and "open and fun" stuff, and criticizing what you identify as "haughtiness." There are hierarchies. The sooner you accept your place in them, the better for you.

Yeah, it's people like you that OP can't stand.

PP here.

Fine by me. I'll be in the corner with my "haughty" friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you had as much of a "glow up" as you think you did, and you are striving. You are going to want to say you aren't striving -- but your use of language, like "social capital" betrays a hyper-vigilance about the social strata. Like I said, you will claim you aren't striving like a 7th grader desperate to be in the popular crowd. But you are. You are just doing it with this ineffective "kind" and "open and fun" stuff, and criticizing what you identify as "haughtiness." There are hierarchies. The sooner you accept your place in them, the better for you.

How does it feel to be a POS?

Less lonely than it feels to be OP.

[Anonymous]

I haven't found really any kindred spirits at my children's schools or activities. Everything is too fraught with competition and people's need to elevate themselves and their child. My closest friends are a couple of neighbors who are 10-15 years older than I am, my sister-in-law, a grad school friend and a couple of wives of DH's work colleagues. I have nothing they want, and they have nothing I want. We just like each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tend to attribute that kind of unfriendly behavior in adults to a lack of social skills, and I never really encountered it until I had DCs and was obligated to interact with other parents at school and in other settings. I was PA president for a couple of years, and I was constantly dealing with people who didn't seem to understand that being arrogant or condescending straight out of the gate is not a good way to win friends and influence people.

All we have here is that OP feels like part of women supporting other women means she should be able to walk into PTA and be friendly and attractive and other women should want to be her friend, and it's not working. That's weird, and you don't need to be arrogant or condescending to not be into that.

Did the OP say she was attractive? No, she did not. See, this is where it becomes really clear that you’re super triggered here and are reading things into the OP’s post that aren’t there. It’s apparent that you’re one of the grown up mean girls who just wants to continue being arrogant and nasty because you cannot stand the thought of another woman being kind and beautiful.

She described herself as having had a "glow up" in the context of talking about why she was surprised and upset that other women didn't want to be her friend.

I'm actually someone who would never expect to be able to walk into a PTA and make friends. And that's totally fine, and I'm not judging anyone for not wanting to be my friend, because I'm a grown up and I can make friends in other places.

You’re so triggered. A glow up can refer to confidence or the way you perceive the world and relate to it. And she never once said other women don’t want to be her friend. She doesn’t understand why many people gravitate toward meanness over kindness. It actually sounds like she has plenty of friends and is more curious why some people are stuck in and attracted to unhealthy people.

No. No it doesn't. Not with this anxiety over her lack of "social capital."

[Anonymous]

Op maybe what you’re observing is just people trying harder with the tough nuts? I’m an extrovert who likes to get a laugh out of everybody. If I’m at a PTA event or a soccer practice and I see a parent who seems left out or aloof, I’ll probably work to bring them in or at least make sure they have the option. It’s not because I think they’re higher value, in fact I probably think they’re a stiff. I’m just trying to grease the wheels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For me, the women I become friends with are those who are down to earth and 'real'. They go out without make-up, they don't care if I see their house a mess, they live imperfect lives. They are just themselves and don't take life too seriously. Sometimes those people have money, sometimes they don't. Some are quiet, some are outgoing. I am more attracted to the character / integrity of the person than anything else. I don't like always nice, always sweet, better than thou personaliities so my friends are more tell it like it is people. I am friendly to most everyone but the people I actually develop friendships with are a certain type.

Wtf?

Plenty of people are real and wear makeup. What a bizarre judgment.

Yeah, wtf indeed. But it's not really a bizarre judgement -- it's a typical projection made by women who are not attractive and don't take care of themselves, and it arises out of insecurity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m low in the pecking order in our immigrant group. It used to sting but ever since I got therapy and learned to direct my thinking and behavior toward achieving my goals (basically focusing on myself), I stopped getting nearly as upset over the way I’m treated and my lack of social capital. I’m too busy focused on my job and my family. Being social is very important to me, but I try not to take it personally anymore.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you had as much of a "glow up" as you think you did, and you are striving. You are going to want to say you aren't striving -- but your use of language, like "social capital" betrays a hyper-vigilance about the social strata. Like I said, you will claim you aren't striving like a 7th grader desperate to be in the popular crowd. But you are. You are just doing it with this ineffective "kind" and "open and fun" stuff, and criticizing what you identify as "haughtiness." There are hierarchies. The sooner you accept your place in them, the better for you.

How does it feel to be a POS?

Less lonely than it feels to be OP.

Something tells me you will never have enough people around to make up for the loneliness and emptiness you feel inside. Hurt people hurt other people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think you had as much of a "glow up" as you think you did, and you are striving. You are going to want to say you aren't striving -- but your use of language, like "social capital" betrays a hyper-vigilance about the social strata. Like I said, you will claim you aren't striving like a 7th grader desperate to be in the popular crowd. But you are. You are just doing it with this ineffective "kind" and "open and fun" stuff, and criticizing what you identify as "haughtiness." There are hierarchies. The sooner you accept your place in them, the better for you.

How does it feel to be a POS?

Less lonely than it feels to be OP.

Something tells me you will never have enough people around to make up for the loneliness and emptiness you feel inside. Hurt people hurt other people.

And it will still be many more people than OP, or likely you, have "around."