I finally set a boundary with in laws and they made me feel bad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This is the weirdest thread
No wonder so many women feel depressed and overwhelmed and burned out
If you ever say no, if you ever put your needs first, if you ever say the phrase ‘mental health’ out loud you get excoriated. Not just by your family who may belittle your needs, but by strangers on the internet apparently
We are 2 years into a pandemic. As if working ft with 2 kids generally isn’t enough pressure
Women need to stop abusing each other by setting impossible expectations that if you don’t meet, you are a bad person. Everyone loses

Why host if you feel so much pressure? Sincere question.

The pandemic would have been the perfect excuse to just take the day off and rest.

I imagine if the mil gets angry about being asked to come in the afternoon on Xmas eve, not hosting was not on the table for op
I dont think hosting is the issue here. Is like saying ‘if you don’t want people to come 6 hours early then don’t have a birthday dinner’

Would MIL have beaten her up for not hosting? What does this mean?

MIL and FIl have been coming over earlier. OP sends a text a day before to change plans, and you and her are surprised that the message is not well received?

The issue is unreasonable expectations that OP has set for herself, her DH, her MIL etc(too little expectations for her DH and too much for herself and her MIL)

Op - there is no tradition of them coming over at a certain time on Christmas Eve. This is the first time they have ever stayed on xmas eve bc we never used to have the space
They just typically arrive several hours before dh has communicated to arrive at all times. Even if half way through the working day.
To me it’s really odd and inconsiderate. I figured it was a long standing miscommunication/ that dh hadn’t been clear ever. But experiencing it for myself what I found is they do hear but don’t want to be respectful of arrival times if not convenient for them.
I just fundamentally think that’s not fair, I would not do that to them

OP, I don't think you are asking for too much by telling them when to arrive.

But you are asking for too much by expecting them to be happy about it. It's not necessarily inconsiderate to want to come earlier to spend more time with you. Like you said, you have not told them before that it is unacceptable to come early. You are different from them, and that's ok.

This is about you meeting your needs. Full stop. Stop with all the "inconsiderate" "fundamentals" and "fairness".

The MIL can be unhappy about it without belittling OP. Mocking someone for taking care of their mental health needs is truly awful and malicious. Why are you so invested in justifying the MIL’s terrible behavior?

I am not justifying MIL's terrible behavior.

But I am not buying OP's victimhood mentality either.

MIl and FIL are inconsiderate to come earlier, MIL and FIL are making her feel bad. MIl and FIL don't help out. Please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op - I’m really not worried about them being rude. Honestly now I just feel guilty
This is the problem with ‘boundaries’. I really do want with the fire of a thousand suns to have one of my only days off from work/ opp to get things how I want them for Xmas not punctuated by my father in law watching loud tv all day and not helping while I prep stuff. I love him but I just needed a minute before they come. And I feel this way all the time bc they always show up literally like 5 hours early and I never say anything bc I know I will then worry about it. But is it worth it to then feel bad and weird? I do not know. I think maybe it is bc I am so so so relieved that I get to wake up tomorrow and get my s**t together in peace. But I guess not at the cost of hurting their feelings. I wish mil had just been like - that’s totally fine! I think actually if they were a little better about trading social cues we would have less of a disconnect overall.

It's not worth it. Just as you wish MIL would have said " thats totally fine, MIL wishes you would have asked her for help cooking .You need help prepping for Christmas. And instead of asking your FIL and MIL to chip in, you get rid of them while you are prepping. I can imagine your tone while you were going back and forth with them( yes, it's obvious from this statement about FIL watching loud TV while you are prepping).

It's unusual to tell close family members not to come too early. It's actually more common to ask them for help. In my family, everyone chips in with a meal or drinks or cleaning up,/prepping if they arrive when the food and hosts are not done.

Perhaps you are cooking more than you should. Perhaps your DH is a lazy bum. You should have tried making adjustments in these areas before pulling this option only to feel guilty and have your in laws feeling offended as well.

This is such horseshit. Close family can still ask each other what time the host would like others to arrive and then respect that. If you care about the host, that is what you do. You don’t just run roughshod over their needs and preferences based on your own preferences.

It's interesting how you phrased the bolded. Why not phrase it to say "host can ask". That's because deep down in you, you know that hosts rarely do insist on a particular time for Christmas/Christmas eve - if asked, they give one or suggests when food will be ready but they rarely insist on people coming over after a certain hour.

Additionally, in this case, there has alrleady been an established time - they have been arriving earlier for years. I wouldn't have responded the way her MIL responded.. However OP telling them to come later for her sanity(OP's words) after years of coming early is strange to them. They have no idea that OP had been putting up with them for years. They thought she enjoyed their presence there as much as they enjoyed being there.

But you are right: OP has the right to her preferences. However, she cannot make people feel the way she wants them to feel about her preferences, epecially given the way she presented them and that those preferences seem new. MIL will come around with time, but this particular Christmas will be awkward thanks to OP and MIL both putting their feelings first.

No, it’s because the host is the one doing all the work of hosting, so common decency says you do what you reasonably can to help the host, including not demanding to arrive before the host is ready for you.

I mean really, were some of you raised in a barn?

Why is the host doing all the work?

I was raised on a barn and still live on one. On that barn, we all do the work. The host does more of course, but we all chip in to reduce the stress and enjoy each other's company.

NP. “Help” means different things to different people, and is also dependent on how actually helpful all the players are. My sister thrives in chaos and doesn’t mind having extra people around. My cousin is more of an introvert and likes to take her time and do things in her own way and on her own time. I’m more in the middle, where I like to have people help, but I kind of have a general plan in mind. None of these hosting preferences are “right” or “wrong,” they’re just different.

Likewise, not all guests are helpful. For example, my mom will “counter-offer” until you land on something she actually wants to do. So she’ll be like “I’m here! How can I help?” And if I ask her to do something actually helpful, like peeling potatoes or watching the kids to keep them out of the kitchen, she’ll suggest that she do X, Y, or Z instead. Fine, whatever, but not helpful. Whereas my MIL will do whatever is asked of her. My dad is helpful to a point, but tires quickly and doesn’t do well around the kids too long—that’s fine. I can plan for that. FIL thrives in chaos and starts 10 projects, finishes none, and abandons all “help” to start drinking early and talking people’s ears off while they work—not helpful.

There is no one size fits all, no right way, especially with different personalities and strengths at play for both hosts and visitors. The best thing any guest can do is listen and do what is asked, if they really want to help. The best thing any host can do is be as flexible as possible, but not to the point of making extra work for yourself or stressing yourself out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op - I’m really not worried about them being rude. Honestly now I just feel guilty
This is the problem with ‘boundaries’. I really do want with the fire of a thousand suns to have one of my only days off from work/ opp to get things how I want them for Xmas not punctuated by my father in law watching loud tv all day and not helping while I prep stuff. I love him but I just needed a minute before they come. And I feel this way all the time bc they always show up literally like 5 hours early and I never say anything bc I know I will then worry about it. But is it worth it to then feel bad and weird? I do not know. I think maybe it is bc I am so so so relieved that I get to wake up tomorrow and get my s**t together in peace. But I guess not at the cost of hurting their feelings. I wish mil had just been like - that’s totally fine! I think actually if they were a little better about trading social cues we would have less of a disconnect overall.

It's not worth it. Just as you wish MIL would have said " thats totally fine, MIL wishes you would have asked her for help cooking .You need help prepping for Christmas. And instead of asking your FIL and MIL to chip in, you get rid of them while you are prepping. I can imagine your tone while you were going back and forth with them( yes, it's obvious from this statement about FIL watching loud TV while you are prepping).

It's unusual to tell close family members not to come too early. It's actually more common to ask them for help. In my family, everyone chips in with a meal or drinks or cleaning up,/prepping if they arrive when the food and hosts are not done.

Perhaps you are cooking more than you should. Perhaps your DH is a lazy bum. You should have tried making adjustments in these areas before pulling this option only to feel guilty and have your in laws feeling offended as well.

This is such horseshit. Close family can still ask each other what time the host would like others to arrive and then respect that. If you care about the host, that is what you do. You don’t just run roughshod over their needs and preferences based on your own preferences.

It's interesting how you phrased the bolded. Why not phrase it to say "host can ask". That's because deep down in you, you know that hosts rarely do insist on a particular time for Christmas/Christmas eve - if asked, they give one or suggests when food will be ready but they rarely insist on people coming over after a certain hour.

Additionally, in this case, there has alrleady been an established time - they have been arriving earlier for years. I wouldn't have responded the way her MIL responded.. However OP telling them to come later for her sanity(OP's words) after years of coming early is strange to them. They have no idea that OP had been putting up with them for years. They thought she enjoyed their presence there as much as they enjoyed being there.

But you are right: OP has the right to her preferences. However, she cannot make people feel the way she wants them to feel about her preferences, epecially given the way she presented them and that those preferences seem new. MIL will come around with time, but this particular Christmas will be awkward thanks to OP and MIL both putting their feelings first.

No, it’s because the host is the one doing all the work of hosting, so common decency says you do what you reasonably can to help the host, including not demanding to arrive before the host is ready for you.

I mean really, were some of you raised in a barn?

Why is the host doing all the work?

I was raised on a barn and still live on one. On that barn, we all do the work. The host does more of course, but we all chip in to reduce the stress and enjoy each other's company.

NP. “Help” means different things to different people, and is also dependent on how actually helpful all the players are. My sister thrives in chaos and doesn’t mind having extra people around. My cousin is more of an introvert and likes to take her time and do things in her own way and on her own time. I’m more in the middle, where I like to have people help, but I kind of have a general plan in mind. None of these hosting preferences are “right” or “wrong,” they’re just different.

Likewise, not all guests are helpful. For example, my mom will “counter-offer” until you land on something she actually wants to do. So she’ll be like “I’m here! How can I help?” And if I ask her to do something actually helpful, like peeling potatoes or watching the kids to keep them out of the kitchen, she’ll suggest that she do X, Y, or Z instead. Fine, whatever, but not helpful. Whereas my MIL will do whatever is asked of her. My dad is helpful to a point, but tires quickly and doesn’t do well around the kids too long—that’s fine. I can plan for that. FIL thrives in chaos and starts 10 projects, finishes none, and abandons all “help” to start drinking early and talking people’s ears off while they work—not helpful.

There is no one size fits all, no right way, especially with different personalities and strengths at play for both hosts and visitors. The best thing any guest can do is listen and do what is asked, if they really want to help. The best thing any host can do is be as flexible as possible, but not to the point of making extra work for yourself or stressing yourself out.

If "help" is not really helpful, why make a point of mentioning that the OP is doing all the work? As you can see my response is to that statement.

There is no one size fits all. True. In that same light, it's hurtful to some people to tell them that their coming earlier for Christmas celebration affects your sanity. Why are you shocked when they overeact and are rude in return? If your sanity is that fragile, you should keep it simple: order out, and have MIL and FIl order some/bring some of the dishes. Or don't host.

If one size does not fit all, don't put your issues on others and then act hurt when they insult you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op - I’m really not worried about them being rude. Honestly now I just feel guilty
This is the problem with ‘boundaries’. I really do want with the fire of a thousand suns to have one of my only days off from work/ opp to get things how I want them for Xmas not punctuated by my father in law watching loud tv all day and not helping while I prep stuff. I love him but I just needed a minute before they come. And I feel this way all the time bc they always show up literally like 5 hours early and I never say anything bc I know I will then worry about it. But is it worth it to then feel bad and weird? I do not know. I think maybe it is bc I am so so so relieved that I get to wake up tomorrow and get my s**t together in peace. But I guess not at the cost of hurting their feelings. I wish mil had just been like - that’s totally fine! I think actually if they were a little better about trading social cues we would have less of a disconnect overall.

It's not worth it. Just as you wish MIL would have said " thats totally fine, MIL wishes you would have asked her for help cooking .You need help prepping for Christmas. And instead of asking your FIL and MIL to chip in, you get rid of them while you are prepping. I can imagine your tone while you were going back and forth with them( yes, it's obvious from this statement about FIL watching loud TV while you are prepping).

It's unusual to tell close family members not to come too early. It's actually more common to ask them for help. In my family, everyone chips in with a meal or drinks or cleaning up,/prepping if they arrive when the food and hosts are not done.

Perhaps you are cooking more than you should. Perhaps your DH is a lazy bum. You should have tried making adjustments in these areas before pulling this option only to feel guilty and have your in laws feeling offended as well.

This is such horseshit. Close family can still ask each other what time the host would like others to arrive and then respect that. If you care about the host, that is what you do. You don’t just run roughshod over their needs and preferences based on your own preferences.

It's interesting how you phrased the bolded. Why not phrase it to say "host can ask". That's because deep down in you, you know that hosts rarely do insist on a particular time for Christmas/Christmas eve - if asked, they give one or suggests when food will be ready but they rarely insist on people coming over after a certain hour.

Additionally, in this case, there has alrleady been an established time - they have been arriving earlier for years. I wouldn't have responded the way her MIL responded.. However OP telling them to come later for her sanity(OP's words) after years of coming early is strange to them. They have no idea that OP had been putting up with them for years. They thought she enjoyed their presence there as much as they enjoyed being there.

But you are right: OP has the right to her preferences. However, she cannot make people feel the way she wants them to feel about her preferences, epecially given the way she presented them and that those preferences seem new. MIL will come around with time, but this particular Christmas will be awkward thanks to OP and MIL both putting their feelings first.

No, it’s because the host is the one doing all the work of hosting, so common decency says you do what you reasonably can to help the host, including not demanding to arrive before the host is ready for you.

I mean really, were some of you raised in a barn?

Why is the host doing all the work?

I was raised on a barn and still live on one. On that barn, we all do the work. The host does more of course, but we all chip in to reduce the stress and enjoy each other's company.

The help OP asked for was that her guests give her time earlier in the day to prepare her part so she isn’t stressed out during their visit. Instead of being willing to give that help graciously, her MIL threw a tantrum.

I wouldn’t expect any other “help” from the in-laws to be any more constructive than that.

A tantrum, really? I guess you have to get creative to make your point since that's not what OP said at all. Did you read the OP?

Yes, I did read the original post where the MIL degraded OP for taking care of herself.

She made one comment, but carry on rewriting history. And we still don't know how long the ILs have to travel or what their reasons are for wanting to be early, beyond the darkness. It's telling OP ignores those questions.

DP.

Yep. It's telling that OP does not say how long they are travelling. It's also telling that OP does not see how them arriving at 2:30 instead of 5:30 to visit children during the week makes sense given traffic conditions around 5:30pm.

OP and her MIL are birds of a feather. And so are her DH and FIL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op - I’m really not worried about them being rude. Honestly now I just feel guilty
This is the problem with ‘boundaries’. I really do want with the fire of a thousand suns to have one of my only days off from work/ opp to get things how I want them for Xmas not punctuated by my father in law watching loud tv all day and not helping while I prep stuff. I love him but I just needed a minute before they come. And I feel this way all the time bc they always show up literally like 5 hours early and I never say anything bc I know I will then worry about it. But is it worth it to then feel bad and weird? I do not know. I think maybe it is bc I am so so so relieved that I get to wake up tomorrow and get my s**t together in peace. But I guess not at the cost of hurting their feelings. I wish mil had just been like - that’s totally fine! I think actually if they were a little better about trading social cues we would have less of a disconnect overall.

It's not worth it. Just as you wish MIL would have said " thats totally fine, MIL wishes you would have asked her for help cooking .You need help prepping for Christmas. And instead of asking your FIL and MIL to chip in, you get rid of them while you are prepping. I can imagine your tone while you were going back and forth with them( yes, it's obvious from this statement about FIL watching loud TV while you are prepping).

It's unusual to tell close family members not to come too early. It's actually more common to ask them for help. In my family, everyone chips in with a meal or drinks or cleaning up,/prepping if they arrive when the food and hosts are not done.

Perhaps you are cooking more than you should. Perhaps your DH is a lazy bum. You should have tried making adjustments in these areas before pulling this option only to feel guilty and have your in laws feeling offended as well.

This is such horseshit. Close family can still ask each other what time the host would like others to arrive and then respect that. If you care about the host, that is what you do. You don’t just run roughshod over their needs and preferences based on your own preferences.

It's interesting how you phrased the bolded. Why not phrase it to say "host can ask". That's because deep down in you, you know that hosts rarely do insist on a particular time for Christmas/Christmas eve - if asked, they give one or suggests when food will be ready but they rarely insist on people coming over after a certain hour.

Additionally, in this case, there has alrleady been an established time - they have been arriving earlier for years. I wouldn't have responded the way her MIL responded.. However OP telling them to come later for her sanity(OP's words) after years of coming early is strange to them. They have no idea that OP had been putting up with them for years. They thought she enjoyed their presence there as much as they enjoyed being there.

But you are right: OP has the right to her preferences. However, she cannot make people feel the way she wants them to feel about her preferences, epecially given the way she presented them and that those preferences seem new. MIL will come around with time, but this particular Christmas will be awkward thanks to OP and MIL both putting their feelings first.

No, it’s because the host is the one doing all the work of hosting, so common decency says you do what you reasonably can to help the host, including not demanding to arrive before the host is ready for you.

I mean really, were some of you raised in a barn?

Why is the host doing all the work?

I was raised on a barn and still live on one. On that barn, we all do the work. The host does more of course, but we all chip in to reduce the stress and enjoy each other's company.

NP. “Help” means different things to different people, and is also dependent on how actually helpful all the players are. My sister thrives in chaos and doesn’t mind having extra people around. My cousin is more of an introvert and likes to take her time and do things in her own way and on her own time. I’m more in the middle, where I like to have people help, but I kind of have a general plan in mind. None of these hosting preferences are “right” or “wrong,” they’re just different.

Likewise, not all guests are helpful. For example, my mom will “counter-offer” until you land on something she actually wants to do. So she’ll be like “I’m here! How can I help?” And if I ask her to do something actually helpful, like peeling potatoes or watching the kids to keep them out of the kitchen, she’ll suggest that she do X, Y, or Z instead. Fine, whatever, but not helpful. Whereas my MIL will do whatever is asked of her. My dad is helpful to a point, but tires quickly and doesn’t do well around the kids too long—that’s fine. I can plan for that. FIL thrives in chaos and starts 10 projects, finishes none, and abandons all “help” to start drinking early and talking people’s ears off while they work—not helpful.

There is no one size fits all, no right way, especially with different personalities and strengths at play for both hosts and visitors. The best thing any guest can do is listen and do what is asked, if they really want to help. The best thing any host can do is be as flexible as possible, but not to the point of making extra work for yourself or stressing yourself out.

If "help" is not really helpful, why make a point of mentioning that the OP is doing all the work? As you can see my response is to that statement.

There is no one size fits all. True. In that same light, it's hurtful to some people to tell them that their coming earlier for Christmas celebration affects your sanity. Why are you shocked when they overeact and are rude in return? If your sanity is that fragile, you should keep it simple: order out, and have MIL and FIl order some/bring some of the dishes. Or don't host.

If one size does not fit all, don't put your issues on others and then act hurt when they insult you.

As I clearly stated, I am an “NP,” which stands for “New Poster.” So I did not “make a point of mentioning that the OP is doing all the work.” I never said that. I am a New Poster making a New Point—that you can’t just act like “guests should be invited to help and that’s that,” because not all guests are actually helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op - I’m really not worried about them being rude. Honestly now I just feel guilty
This is the problem with ‘boundaries’. I really do want with the fire of a thousand suns to have one of my only days off from work/ opp to get things how I want them for Xmas not punctuated by my father in law watching loud tv all day and not helping while I prep stuff. I love him but I just needed a minute before they come. And I feel this way all the time bc they always show up literally like 5 hours early and I never say anything bc I know I will then worry about it. But is it worth it to then feel bad and weird? I do not know. I think maybe it is bc I am so so so relieved that I get to wake up tomorrow and get my s**t together in peace. But I guess not at the cost of hurting their feelings. I wish mil had just been like - that’s totally fine! I think actually if they were a little better about trading social cues we would have less of a disconnect overall.

It's not worth it. Just as you wish MIL would have said " thats totally fine, MIL wishes you would have asked her for help cooking .You need help prepping for Christmas. And instead of asking your FIL and MIL to chip in, you get rid of them while you are prepping. I can imagine your tone while you were going back and forth with them( yes, it's obvious from this statement about FIL watching loud TV while you are prepping).

It's unusual to tell close family members not to come too early. It's actually more common to ask them for help. In my family, everyone chips in with a meal or drinks or cleaning up,/prepping if they arrive when the food and hosts are not done.

Perhaps you are cooking more than you should. Perhaps your DH is a lazy bum. You should have tried making adjustments in these areas before pulling this option only to feel guilty and have your in laws feeling offended as well.

This is such horseshit. Close family can still ask each other what time the host would like others to arrive and then respect that. If you care about the host, that is what you do. You don’t just run roughshod over their needs and preferences based on your own preferences.

It's interesting how you phrased the bolded. Why not phrase it to say "host can ask". That's because deep down in you, you know that hosts rarely do insist on a particular time for Christmas/Christmas eve - if asked, they give one or suggests when food will be ready but they rarely insist on people coming over after a certain hour.

Additionally, in this case, there has alrleady been an established time - they have been arriving earlier for years. I wouldn't have responded the way her MIL responded.. However OP telling them to come later for her sanity(OP's words) after years of coming early is strange to them. They have no idea that OP had been putting up with them for years. They thought she enjoyed their presence there as much as they enjoyed being there.

But you are right: OP has the right to her preferences. However, she cannot make people feel the way she wants them to feel about her preferences, epecially given the way she presented them and that those preferences seem new. MIL will come around with time, but this particular Christmas will be awkward thanks to OP and MIL both putting their feelings first.

No, it’s because the host is the one doing all the work of hosting, so common decency says you do what you reasonably can to help the host, including not demanding to arrive before the host is ready for you.

I mean really, were some of you raised in a barn?

Why is the host doing all the work?

I was raised on a barn and still live on one. On that barn, we all do the work. The host does more of course, but we all chip in to reduce the stress and enjoy each other's company.

The help OP asked for was that her guests give her time earlier in the day to prepare her part so she isn’t stressed out during their visit. Instead of being willing to give that help graciously, her MIL threw a tantrum.

I wouldn’t expect any other “help” from the in-laws to be any more constructive than that.

A tantrum, really? I guess you have to get creative to make your point since that's not what OP said at all. Did you read the OP?

Yes, I did read the original post where the MIL degraded OP for taking care of herself.

She made one comment, but carry on rewriting history. And we still don't know how long the ILs have to travel or what their reasons are for wanting to be early, beyond the darkness. It's telling OP ignores those questions.

DP.

Yep. It's telling that OP does not say how long they are travelling. It's also telling that OP does not see how them arriving at 2:30 instead of 5:30 to visit children during the week makes sense given traffic conditions around 5:30pm.

OP and her MIL are birds of a feather. And so are her DH and FIL.

You know what's telling? That you are ignoring the fact that OP is working from home and that having her in-laws in the house, including her FIL putting the tv on at high volume, interferes with her ability to work. If the in-laws do not want to arrive after the work day is done and the kids are home from daycare, they are free to not come visit during the work week and instead wait for a weekend that works for everyone.

But I get it, you have zero respect for OP, or for working mothers generally who are balancing an enormous amount of shit during this pandemic. It's all about you and what you want, the rest of the world can go screw.

[Anonymous]

Yes, NP.

And you cannot just act like telling your PIL that their time of arrival at your house on Christmas eve affects your sanity is normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, NP.

And you cannot just act like telling your PIL that their time of arrival at your house on Christmas eve affects your sanity is normal.

NP again. Yes, you can. “I’ve been finishing up a ton of projects at work, and Jim and I haven’t had a chance to get the house in order. I can’t wait to celebrate with you, but I don’t feel good about the state of the house, and won’t be ready for guests until 5 p.m. Oh, of course, I didn’t think about the daylight factor while driving—how about arriving at 4 p.m., it’s definitely still light by then. Thank you for understanding that I need some extra time to get ready. By the time we sit down to dinner on Christmas Eve, I’ll be ready to go into holiday mode, especially since you are bringing yummy pies!”

I’ve had conversations just like this with my mom and MIL, who both were thankfully working moms themselves who get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op - I’m really not worried about them being rude. Honestly now I just feel guilty
This is the problem with ‘boundaries’. I really do want with the fire of a thousand suns to have one of my only days off from work/ opp to get things how I want them for Xmas not punctuated by my father in law watching loud tv all day and not helping while I prep stuff. I love him but I just needed a minute before they come. And I feel this way all the time bc they always show up literally like 5 hours early and I never say anything bc I know I will then worry about it. But is it worth it to then feel bad and weird? I do not know. I think maybe it is bc I am so so so relieved that I get to wake up tomorrow and get my s**t together in peace. But I guess not at the cost of hurting their feelings. I wish mil had just been like - that’s totally fine! I think actually if they were a little better about trading social cues we would have less of a disconnect overall.

It's not worth it. Just as you wish MIL would have said " thats totally fine, MIL wishes you would have asked her for help cooking .You need help prepping for Christmas. And instead of asking your FIL and MIL to chip in, you get rid of them while you are prepping. I can imagine your tone while you were going back and forth with them( yes, it's obvious from this statement about FIL watching loud TV while you are prepping).

It's unusual to tell close family members not to come too early. It's actually more common to ask them for help. In my family, everyone chips in with a meal or drinks or cleaning up,/prepping if they arrive when the food and hosts are not done.

Perhaps you are cooking more than you should. Perhaps your DH is a lazy bum. You should have tried making adjustments in these areas before pulling this option only to feel guilty and have your in laws feeling offended as well.

This is such horseshit. Close family can still ask each other what time the host would like others to arrive and then respect that. If you care about the host, that is what you do. You don’t just run roughshod over their needs and preferences based on your own preferences.

It's interesting how you phrased the bolded. Why not phrase it to say "host can ask". That's because deep down in you, you know that hosts rarely do insist on a particular time for Christmas/Christmas eve - if asked, they give one or suggests when food will be ready but they rarely insist on people coming over after a certain hour.

Additionally, in this case, there has alrleady been an established time - they have been arriving earlier for years. I wouldn't have responded the way her MIL responded.. However OP telling them to come later for her sanity(OP's words) after years of coming early is strange to them. They have no idea that OP had been putting up with them for years. They thought she enjoyed their presence there as much as they enjoyed being there.

But you are right: OP has the right to her preferences. However, she cannot make people feel the way she wants them to feel about her preferences, epecially given the way she presented them and that those preferences seem new. MIL will come around with time, but this particular Christmas will be awkward thanks to OP and MIL both putting their feelings first.

No, it’s because the host is the one doing all the work of hosting, so common decency says you do what you reasonably can to help the host, including not demanding to arrive before the host is ready for you.

I mean really, were some of you raised in a barn?

Why is the host doing all the work?

I was raised on a barn and still live on one. On that barn, we all do the work. The host does more of course, but we all chip in to reduce the stress and enjoy each other's company.

The help OP asked for was that her guests give her time earlier in the day to prepare her part so she isn’t stressed out during their visit. Instead of being willing to give that help graciously, her MIL threw a tantrum.

I wouldn’t expect any other “help” from the in-laws to be any more constructive than that.

A tantrum, really? I guess you have to get creative to make your point since that's not what OP said at all. Did you read the OP?

Yes, I did read the original post where the MIL degraded OP for taking care of herself.

She made one comment, but carry on rewriting history. And we still don't know how long the ILs have to travel or what their reasons are for wanting to be early, beyond the darkness. It's telling OP ignores those questions.

DP.

Yep. It's telling that OP does not say how long they are travelling. It's also telling that OP does not see how them arriving at 2:30 instead of 5:30 to visit children during the week makes sense given traffic conditions around 5:30pm.

OP and her MIL are birds of a feather. And so are her DH and FIL.

You know what's telling? That you are ignoring the fact that OP is working from home and that having her in-laws in the house, including her FIL putting the tv on at high volume, interferes with her ability to work. If the in-laws do not want to arrive after the work day is done and the kids are home from daycare, they are free to not come visit during the work week and instead wait for a weekend that works for everyone.

But I get it, you have zero respect for OP, or for working mothers generally who are balancing an enormous amount of shit during this pandemic. It's all about you and what you want, the rest of the world can go screw.

OP can use her mouth to express that. Why should mother in law empathize with her if she cannot empathize with MIL? Both are lacking empathy.

Again, birds of a feather ...

[Anonymous]

The entire reason not to insist on arriving at someone’s home five hours before being invited is always mental health of your host. They don’t want you to come at that time they want you to come later. If you come long before you are invited they will be less happy than if you come later. No one who is an adult should be insulted by this obvious fact

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the weirdest thread
No wonder so many women feel depressed and overwhelmed and burned out
If you ever say no, if you ever put your needs first, if you ever say the phrase ‘mental health’ out loud you get excoriated. Not just by your family who may belittle your needs, but by strangers on the internet apparently
We are 2 years into a pandemic. As if working ft with 2 kids generally isn’t enough pressure
Women need to stop abusing each other by setting impossible expectations that if you don’t meet, you are a bad person. Everyone loses

Why host if you feel so much pressure? Sincere question.

The pandemic would have been the perfect excuse to just take the day off and rest.

I imagine if the mil gets angry about being asked to come in the afternoon on Xmas eve, not hosting was not on the table for op
I dont think hosting is the issue here. Is like saying ‘if you don’t want people to come 6 hours early then don’t have a birthday dinner’

Would MIL have beaten her up for not hosting? What does this mean?

MIL and FIl have been coming over earlier. OP sends a text a day before to change plans, and you and her are surprised that the message is not well received?

The issue is unreasonable expectations that OP has set for herself, her DH, her MIL etc(too little expectations for her DH and too much for herself and her MIL)

Op - there is no tradition of them coming over at a certain time on Christmas Eve. This is the first time they have ever stayed on xmas eve bc we never used to have the space
They just typically arrive several hours before dh has communicated to arrive at all times. Even if half way through the working day.
To me it’s really odd and inconsiderate. I figured it was a long standing miscommunication/ that dh hadn’t been clear ever. But experiencing it for myself what I found is they do hear but don’t want to be respectful of arrival times if not convenient for them.
I just fundamentally think that’s not fair, I would not do that to them

OP, I don't think you are asking for too much by telling them when to arrive.

But you are asking for too much by expecting them to be happy about it. It's not necessarily inconsiderate to want to come earlier to spend more time with you. Like you said, you have not told them before that it is unacceptable to come early. You are different from them, and that's ok.

This is about you meeting your needs. Full stop. Stop with all the "inconsiderate" "fundamentals" and "fairness".

The MIL can be unhappy about it without belittling OP. Mocking someone for taking care of their mental health needs is truly awful and malicious. Why are you so invested in justifying the MIL’s terrible behavior?

I am not justifying MIL's terrible behavior.

But I am not buying OP's victimhood mentality either.

MIl and FIL are inconsiderate to come earlier, MIL and FIL are making her feel bad. MIl and FIL don't help out. Please.

A "victim mentality" would be not setting any boundaries at all and then whining about it. OP's in-laws may have many wonderful qualities, but it sounds like they are not very considerate guests. Rather than be a victim of it, OP is setting the limits she needs. That she is frustrated by her MIL's poor behavior in response does not make her a "victim."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, NP.

And you cannot just act like telling your PIL that their time of arrival at your house on Christmas eve affects your sanity is normal.

NP again. Yes, you can. “I’ve been finishing up a ton of projects at work, and Jim and I haven’t had a chance to get the house in order. I can’t wait to celebrate with you, but I don’t feel good about the state of the house, and won’t be ready for guests until 5 p.m. Oh, of course, I didn’t think about the daylight factor while driving—how about arriving at 4 p.m., it’s definitely still light by then. Thank you for understanding that I need some extra time to get ready. By the time we sit down to dinner on Christmas Eve, I’ll be ready to go into holiday mode, especially since you are bringing yummy pies!”

I’ve had conversations just like this with my mom and MIL, who both were thankfully working moms themselves who get it.

Well, maybe you should give OP some lessons in communication.

I am a working mother too, and I would never tell my MIL that her coming earlier will help me with my sanity. I have been known to cook one dish for Christmas and then buy other stuff. Everyone is still happy with what I cook. My aunts are known to cook a million dishes, and everyone is still happy. Nobody has ever missed Christmas at my house because I don't cook as much or as well as my aunts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, NP.

And you cannot just act like telling your PIL that their time of arrival at your house on Christmas eve affects your sanity is normal.

Dear lord, it's a figure of speech, not OP saying she will literally end up in a mental institution if her in-laws arrive before 4:00.

Some people are really contorting themselves to excuse the in-laws poor behavior. Is it because they are similarly badly behaved toward others, or are they such doormats that they would never stand up for their own needs and need to attack others for doing so to avoid admitting they bring it on themselves? Because they sure are projecting something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The entire reason not to insist on arriving at someone’s home five hours before being invited is always mental health of your host. They don’t want you to come at that time they want you to come later. If you come long before you are invited they will be less happy than if you come later. No one who is an adult should be insulted by this obvious fact

Not everyone understands these basic manners, it seems.

[Anonymous]

In a lot of ways, holidays actually suck for working moms and never more than in a pandemic. Some of your only time off gets taken up doing yet another job. So you scrounge for the scraps of ‘break’. I think most working moms are totally fried at this point and prob at least half of them wish the Holidays were cancelled and they didn’t have to host or buy gifts or do anything