S/O Elder care for parents who didn't provide child care

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately with people like that, they'll probably spend any and all money that comes their way right away, even when they earn it.

But life has unpredictable twists and turns, and it seems premature to get so stressed out about something that hasn't even happened yet.

I'm curious what your husband/their son thinks? He should be the one dealing with it.

[Anonymous]

I don't think you would be happy with your MIL as childcare provider the way you talk about her. And it would only make your relationship more tense. Stop telling her how she should live or spend her money. You and you're DH will need to consider your options if/when the times comes when either MIL/FIL can no longer care or live by themselves. You cannot predict the kind of care or length of care they will need, or what stage you'll be in your own life at that time to decide how you will handle it. That decision should be completely separate from your judgments on how they lived their life or spent there money. Even if it's frustrating that in your judgement they didn't plan better, the decision you will make re: elder care should not be thought of as punishment for those choices. Just tell your MIL when she makes comments like that that you do not know how you to what extent you will be able to support them at that stage in their life and please make long term care and retirement plans outside of your financial or social support (what if one or both of you guys died first)? Lots of people care for parents who didn't care for them or who were even abusive. You are not alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't owe your parents elder care IN EXCHANGE for them doing your childcare. You owe it to them because they gave birth to you, wiped your bum when you soiled yourself, got up in the middle of the night for you when you cried, taught you to read and write, held your hand when you crossed the road, helped you take your first step and cared for your every single need at the expense of their own need when you were a child and unable to do anything for yourself. Your debt to them started accumulating the day you were born and grew with every diaper change.

For all that, I owe it to my parents to take care of them when THEY are no longer able to do things for themselves.

I agree with this vis-a-vis the exchange of services.

That said, in the United States in the 21st century and certainly in the DC area, for most people taking care of their parents' needs would entail sacrificing their children's needs. It is virtually impossible for most middle-class people to care for their parents, care for their children, put away money for their own retirement (so as not to put their children in the same situation in the future), and save for college, all while keeping a roof over everyone's heads and food on the table and working. Pretty much impossible.

We do not live in a society that is set up to enable us to handle so many responsibilities at the same time.

For this reason I am very grateful to my parents for having planned and saved for their retirement. I care for them as feasible, but am not responsible for them to the nth degree.

Exactly. People are reacting to this post as if OP's family has unlimited resources that they would prefer to withhold from MIL and FIL out of spite or for personal indulgences.
MIL may not OWE childcare, but I can see why OP would feel like "WTF" when MIL is insensitive to the huge cost of childcare coupled with looking after aging parents in a very expensive location.
How would MIL feel if she was getting paid for the childcare instead of a third party provider? Then, she and her husband could build up more of a nest egg. I'm surprised I haven't seen that suggested yet.

Unbeknownst to me, DH actually offered to pay MIL for childcare. He saw it as a way to foster closeness between her and our daughter, and also ensure our daughter is in the care of someone loving while helping his parents out a bit. MIL responded that if he had that kind of money then he should just give it to her as a loving son. Convo ended there because DH knows I would have his balls if he just wrote a check to her.

DH is really disappointed in his mother because both his grandmothers helped take care of him even though MIL was a SAHM. I've long pegged MIL as a lazy mooch, so I am not disappointed or surprised. I have kept my opinion to myself and just let time show DH who his mother is. His father is not a great guy either. I know he knows MIL is initiating conversations with us and I am sure he is encouraging her to put out feelers. All this time, they have been saying that FIL has no plans to retire ever, but now that his friends are retiring, DH says that FIL wants to retire too.

Our budget for living expenses, child care, retirement savings and college savings is going to tie up every last penny we have. I have told DH that I will never sacrifice our daughter's college fund or enjoy a lower quality of life so that his parents can be bailed out. He is really worried about his parents but agrees our family comes first. It really pisses me off that DH has to worry about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't owe your parents elder care IN EXCHANGE for them doing your childcare. You owe it to them because they gave birth to you, wiped your bum when you soiled yourself, got up in the middle of the night for you when you cried, taught you to read and write, held your hand when you crossed the road, helped you take your first step and cared for your every single need at the expense of their own need when you were a child and unable to do anything for yourself. Your debt to them started accumulating the day you were born and grew with every diaper change.

For all that, I owe it to my parents to take care of them when THEY are no longer able to do things for themselves.

I agree with this vis-a-vis the exchange of services.

That said, in the United States in the 21st century and certainly in the DC area, for most people taking care of their parents' needs would entail sacrificing their children's needs. It is virtually impossible for most middle-class people to care for their parents, care for their children, put away money for their own retirement (so as not to put their children in the same situation in the future), and save for college, all while keeping a roof over everyone's heads and food on the table and working. Pretty much impossible.

We do not live in a society that is set up to enable us to handle so many responsibilities at the same time.

For this reason I am very grateful to my parents for having planned and saved for their retirement. I care for them as feasible, but am not responsible for them to the nth degree.

Exactly. People are reacting to this post as if OP's family has unlimited resources that they would prefer to withhold from MIL and FIL out of spite or for personal indulgences.
MIL may not OWE childcare, but I can see why OP would feel like "WTF" when MIL is insensitive to the huge cost of childcare coupled with looking after aging parents in a very expensive location.
How would MIL feel if she was getting paid for the childcare instead of a third party provider? Then, she and her husband could build up more of a nest egg. I'm surprised I haven't seen that suggested yet.

Unbeknownst to me, DH actually offered to pay MIL for childcare. He saw it as a way to foster closeness between her and our daughter, and also ensure our daughter is in the care of someone loving while helping his parents out a bit. MIL responded that if he had that kind of money then he should just give it to her as a loving son. Convo ended there because DH knows I would have his balls if he just wrote a check to her.

DH is really disappointed in his mother because both his grandmothers helped take care of him even though MIL was a SAHM. I've long pegged MIL as a lazy mooch, so I am not disappointed or surprised. I have kept my opinion to myself and just let time show DH who his mother is. His father is not a great guy either. I know he knows MIL is initiating conversations with us and I am sure he is encouraging her to put out feelers. All this time, they have been saying that FIL has no plans to retire ever, but now that his friends are retiring, DH says that FIL wants to retire too.

Our budget for living expenses, child care, retirement savings and college savings is going to tie up every last penny we have. I have told DH that I will never sacrifice our daughter's college fund or enjoy a lower quality of life so that his parents can be bailed out. He is really worried about his parents but agrees our family comes first. It really pisses me off that DH has to worry about this.

Does she have a brain? Because that would mean you wouldn't have the money available to pay someone else for childcare.

Again, sorry OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You buried the real time bomb at the end, OP:

"I think DH will go along with what I decide."

And so what happens when the time comes, or MIL or FIL suddenly gets ill or has an accident or there's no money coming in and...your DH tells you, "They need us so they're going to live here"--?

The whole post was focused on your resentment of how they live their lives and especially how they did not provide the free child care you feel was your due. But nothing about how DH regards the situation other than "He'll do what I want." Maybe he does agree with you 100 percent. Maybe he agrees now, but will cave to guilt if they need to move in with you or need you to provide money so they can NOT move in with you. Maybe he actually doesn't feel the same as you but is so cowed by your anger and resentment and sense of entitlement that he won't say so to your face. No way to tell from your post.

If you don't want them living with you, you and he should say so point-blank now. If you will never give them a dime, you and he should say so point-blank now. And he, as their child, should do the telling.

I think Op is frustrated because these reasonably young people are eyeing HER - a person with a full time job, a child and her own retirement to save for - as their financial ticket. If they need that kind of help, if MIL is really not employable why aren't they willing to take the financial burden of daycare off of OP so that Op could set aside some of that money for them?

It is a thankless job to help people who aren't even willing to help themselves. Op is seeing that coming down that pike at her and she resents them for it. I also think that she is being premature with her resentment because they haven't actually asked anything of Op. How does Op know that they even will ask?

+1

MIL is being very, very selfish. She isn't contributing to the family system in the slightest but is making some huge demands on it. Eff that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP:

Tell her when she is ready to "retire" you will buy her new drapes for her double-wide.

I would like to have a double-wide out in the country when I retire. It sounds great. (A new double-wide can be pretty nice, BTW.)

[Anonymous]

For everyone saying that this is premature, it is not premature. The official story has been that FIL will work until he can't any more, but DH just told me that the reason why his mother has been so aggressive about initiating conversations with us recently is because FIL now wants to retire at 67. That is just a year away. FIL isn't being direct about that and has been putting his wife up to asking if they can move in with us.

DH says his mom freaked out at my answer and now both FIL and MIL want to meet with DH alone. They told him to tell me that he is going on a work trip but in reality, he is supposed to spend the day with them figuring out what to do. Considering that they asked him to lie to me, I have no doubt that they hope they can influence him when I am not there and get him to agree to some crazy level of support. DH refused to lie to me and came straight to tell me. If I was annoyed before, I am now officially hostile to any assistance going their way.

-OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For everyone saying that this is premature, it is not premature. The official story has been that FIL will work until he can't any more, but DH just told me that the reason why his mother has been so aggressive about initiating conversations with us recently is because FIL now wants to retire at 67. That is just a year away. FIL isn't being direct about that and has been putting his wife up to asking if they can move in with us.

DH says his mom freaked out at my answer and now both FIL and MIL want to meet with DH alone. They told him to tell me that he is going on a work trip but in reality, he is supposed to spend the day with them figuring out what to do. Considering that they asked him to lie to me, I have no doubt that they hope they can influence him when I am not there and get him to agree to some crazy level of support. DH refused to lie to me and came straight to tell me. If I was annoyed before, I am now officially hostile to any assistance going their way.

-OP

You must be part of that in-person conversation. It is half your money, half your time, half your house, half your decision as a parent. How dare they think they could ask him to lie to you and to have such an important conversation without you?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't owe your parents elder care IN EXCHANGE for them doing your childcare. You owe it to them because they gave birth to you, wiped your bum when you soiled yourself, got up in the middle of the night for you when you cried, taught you to read and write, held your hand when you crossed the road, helped you take your first step and cared for your every single need at the expense of their own need when you were a child and unable to do anything for yourself. Your debt to them started accumulating the day you were born and grew with every diaper change.

For all that, I owe it to my parents to take care of them when THEY are no longer able to do things for themselves.

I agree with this vis-a-vis the exchange of services.

That said, in the United States in the 21st century and certainly in the DC area, for most people taking care of their parents' needs would entail sacrificing their children's needs. It is virtually impossible for most middle-class people to care for their parents, care for their children, put away money for their own retirement (so as not to put their children in the same situation in the future), and save for college, all while keeping a roof over everyone's heads and food on the table and working. Pretty much impossible.

We do not live in a society that is set up to enable us to handle so many responsibilities at the same time.

For this reason I am very grateful to my parents for having planned and saved for their retirement. I care for them as feasible, but am not responsible for them to the nth degree.

Exactly. People are reacting to this post as if OP's family has unlimited resources that they would prefer to withhold from MIL and FIL out of spite or for personal indulgences.
MIL may not OWE childcare, but I can see why OP would feel like "WTF" when MIL is insensitive to the huge cost of childcare coupled with looking after aging parents in a very expensive location.
How would MIL feel if she was getting paid for the childcare instead of a third party provider? Then, she and her husband could build up more of a nest egg. I'm surprised I haven't seen that suggested yet.

Unbeknownst to me, DH actually offered to pay MIL for childcare. He saw it as a way to foster closeness between her and our daughter, and also ensure our daughter is in the care of someone loving while helping his parents out a bit. MIL responded that if he had that kind of money then he should just give it to her as a loving son. Convo ended there because DH knows I would have his balls if he just wrote a check to her.

DH is really disappointed in his mother because both his grandmothers helped take care of him even though MIL was a SAHM. I've long pegged MIL as a lazy mooch, so I am not disappointed or surprised. I have kept my opinion to myself and just let time show DH who his mother is. His father is not a great guy either. I know he knows MIL is initiating conversations with us and I am sure he is encouraging her to put out feelers. All this time, they have been saying that FIL has no plans to retire ever, but now that his friends are retiring, DH says that FIL wants to retire too.

Our budget for living expenses, child care, retirement savings and college savings is going to tie up every last penny we have. I have told DH that I will never sacrifice our daughter's college fund or enjoy a lower quality of life so that his parents can be bailed out. He is really worried about his parents but agrees our family comes first. It really pisses me off that DH has to worry about this.

Oh come on. Your story gets more and more over the top. You expect us to believe that she wanted your husband to hand over his childcare money just because he's a loving son? And now the FIL that wanted to work until he dropped dead wants to retire? And he's telling the MIL to put out feelers to you? You need to get a second job writing fiction.

Just have your husband use all the good advice upthread and tell them in no uncertain terms that they won't be coming to live with you and knock off all the theatrics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For everyone saying that this is premature, it is not premature. The official story has been that FIL will work until he can't any more, but DH just told me that the reason why his mother has been so aggressive about initiating conversations with us recently is because FIL now wants to retire at 67. That is just a year away. FIL isn't being direct about that and has been putting his wife up to asking if they can move in with us.

DH says his mom freaked out at my answer and now both FIL and MIL want to meet with DH alone. They told him to tell me that he is going on a work trip but in reality, he is supposed to spend the day with them figuring out what to do. Considering that they asked him to lie to me, I have no doubt that they hope they can influence him when I am not there and get him to agree to some crazy level of support. DH refused to lie to me and came straight to tell me. If I was annoyed before, I am now officially hostile to any assistance going their way.

-OP

You must be part of that in-person conversation. It is half your money, half your time, half your house, half your decision as a parent. How dare they think they could ask him to lie to you and to have such an important conversation without you?!

Damn they have balls. I would ask them how much they're going to put towards your mortgage?

I love my parents and in laws, but no way could they live with us. Especially when they're still so young. You could easily have 30 years ahead with them in your house. 7/8 of our grandparents are still alive right now in their 90s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't owe your parents elder care IN EXCHANGE for them doing your childcare. You owe it to them because they gave birth to you, wiped your bum when you soiled yourself, got up in the middle of the night for you when you cried, taught you to read and write, held your hand when you crossed the road, helped you take your first step and cared for your every single need at the expense of their own need when you were a child and unable to do anything for yourself. Your debt to them started accumulating the day you were born and grew with every diaper change.

For all that, I owe it to my parents to take care of them when THEY are no longer able to do things for themselves.

I agree with this vis-a-vis the exchange of services.

That said, in the United States in the 21st century and certainly in the DC area, for most people taking care of their parents' needs would entail sacrificing their children's needs. It is virtually impossible for most middle-class people to care for their parents, care for their children, put away money for their own retirement (so as not to put their children in the same situation in the future), and save for college, all while keeping a roof over everyone's heads and food on the table and working. Pretty much impossible.

We do not live in a society that is set up to enable us to handle so many responsibilities at the same time.

For this reason I am very grateful to my parents for having planned and saved for their retirement. I care for them as feasible, but am not responsible for them to the nth degree.

Exactly. People are reacting to this post as if OP's family has unlimited resources that they would prefer to withhold from MIL and FIL out of spite or for personal indulgences.
MIL may not OWE childcare, but I can see why OP would feel like "WTF" when MIL is insensitive to the huge cost of childcare coupled with looking after aging parents in a very expensive location.
How would MIL feel if she was getting paid for the childcare instead of a third party provider? Then, she and her husband could build up more of a nest egg. I'm surprised I haven't seen that suggested yet.

Unbeknownst to me, DH actually offered to pay MIL for childcare. He saw it as a way to foster closeness between her and our daughter, and also ensure our daughter is in the care of someone loving while helping his parents out a bit. MIL responded that if he had that kind of money then he should just give it to her as a loving son. Convo ended there because DH knows I would have his balls if he just wrote a check to her.

DH is really disappointed in his mother because both his grandmothers helped take care of him even though MIL was a SAHM. I've long pegged MIL as a lazy mooch, so I am not disappointed or surprised. I have kept my opinion to myself and just let time show DH who his mother is. His father is not a great guy either. I know he knows MIL is initiating conversations with us and I am sure he is encouraging her to put out feelers. All this time, they have been saying that FIL has no plans to retire ever, but now that his friends are retiring, DH says that FIL wants to retire too.

Our budget for living expenses, child care, retirement savings and college savings is going to tie up every last penny we have. I have told DH that I will never sacrifice our daughter's college fund or enjoy a lower quality of life so that his parents can be bailed out. He is really worried about his parents but agrees our family comes first. It really pisses me off that DH has to worry about this.

Oh come on. Your story gets more and more over the top. You expect us to believe that she wanted your husband to hand over his childcare money just because he's a loving son? And now the FIL that wanted to work until he dropped dead wants to retire? And he's telling the MIL to put out feelers to you? You need to get a second job writing fiction.

Just have your husband use all the good advice upthread and tell them in no uncertain terms that they won't be coming to live with you and knock off all the theatrics.

Believe what you want. I actually did heed the advice in this thread from well intentioned people by sitting my husband down instead of being quietly resentful. The conversation was helpful and I learned more about what has been going on. (Thank you to those who made this suggestion. It seems obvious and hindsight, but initiating awkward talks is pretty hard.) DH confirmed that I am not offbase here and MIL does not want to help. He told me about his offer of money and what she said. I am peeved that he did not run that by me, but I am going to let it go because no money changed hands.

You think it is unbelievable that she just asked for the money, but DH used to give her money just to make her happy. I crashed that party, ha. I have always felt FIL wasn't really going to work until death. That is just what FIL was saying to get DH out of his business when DH wanted to discuss retirement planning. Hard work doesn't run on that side of the family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For everyone saying that this is premature, it is not premature. The official story has been that FIL will work until he can't any more, but DH just told me that the reason why his mother has been so aggressive about initiating conversations with us recently is because FIL now wants to retire at 67. That is just a year away. FIL isn't being direct about that and has been putting his wife up to asking if they can move in with us.

DH says his mom freaked out at my answer and now both FIL and MIL want to meet with DH alone. They told him to tell me that he is going on a work trip but in reality, he is supposed to spend the day with them figuring out what to do. Considering that they asked him to lie to me, I have no doubt that they hope they can influence him when I am not there and get him to agree to some crazy level of support. DH refused to lie to me and came straight to tell me. If I was annoyed before, I am now officially hostile to any assistance going their way.

-OP

You must be part of that in-person conversation. It is half your money, half your time, half your house, half your decision as a parent. How dare they think they could ask him to lie to you and to have such an important conversation without you?!

Damn they have balls. I would ask them how much they're going to put towards your mortgage?

I love my parents and in laws, but no way could they live with us. Especially when they're still so young. You could easily have 30 years ahead with them in your house. 7/8 of our grandparents are still alive right now in their 90s.

I am washing my hands of all of this. I told DH he can go meet with them privately if that's what they want. As long as they don't show me the respect of including me in talks about MY family and household, they aren't going to get anywhere with DH. I have a good husband, that I know. Plus, I make most of the money. They can forget about laying a hand on a penny.

I blame DH a little for this because when we first got together, he used to have these little side discussions with them. They still believe they can use him to lay the third degree on me to do what they want to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't owe your parents elder care IN EXCHANGE for them doing your childcare. You owe it to them because they gave birth to you, wiped your bum when you soiled yourself, got up in the middle of the night for you when you cried, taught you to read and write, held your hand when you crossed the road, helped you take your first step and cared for your every single need at the expense of their own need when you were a child and unable to do anything for yourself. Your debt to them started accumulating the day you were born and grew with every diaper change.

For all that, I owe it to my parents to take care of them when THEY are no longer able to do things for themselves.

I agree with this vis-a-vis the exchange of services.

That said, in the United States in the 21st century and certainly in the DC area, for most people taking care of their parents' needs would entail sacrificing their children's needs. It is virtually impossible for most middle-class people to care for their parents, care for their children, put away money for their own retirement (so as not to put their children in the same situation in the future), and save for college, all while keeping a roof over everyone's heads and food on the table and working. Pretty much impossible.

We do not live in a society that is set up to enable us to handle so many responsibilities at the same time.

For this reason I am very grateful to my parents for having planned and saved for their retirement. I care for them as feasible, but am not responsible for them to the nth degree.

Exactly. People are reacting to this post as if OP's family has unlimited resources that they would prefer to withhold from MIL and FIL out of spite or for personal indulgences.
MIL may not OWE childcare, but I can see why OP would feel like "WTF" when MIL is insensitive to the huge cost of childcare coupled with looking after aging parents in a very expensive location.
How would MIL feel if she was getting paid for the childcare instead of a third party provider? Then, she and her husband could build up more of a nest egg. I'm surprised I haven't seen that suggested yet.

Unbeknownst to me, DH actually offered to pay MIL for childcare. He saw it as a way to foster closeness between her and our daughter, and also ensure our daughter is in the care of someone loving while helping his parents out a bit. MIL responded that if he had that kind of money then he should just give it to her as a loving son. Convo ended there because DH knows I would have his balls if he just wrote a check to her.

DH is really disappointed in his mother because both his grandmothers helped take care of him even though MIL was a SAHM. I've long pegged MIL as a lazy mooch, so I am not disappointed or surprised. I have kept my opinion to myself and just let time show DH who his mother is. His father is not a great guy either. I know he knows MIL is initiating conversations with us and I am sure he is encouraging her to put out feelers. All this time, they have been saying that FIL has no plans to retire ever, but now that his friends are retiring, DH says that FIL wants to retire too.

Our budget for living expenses, child care, retirement savings and college savings is going to tie up every last penny we have. I have told DH that I will never sacrifice our daughter's college fund or enjoy a lower quality of life so that his parents can be bailed out. He is really worried about his parents but agrees our family comes first. It really pisses me off that DH has to worry about this.

I totally understand your resentment. But these ARE your dh's parents. He IS going to worry about this. It IS going to affect your family in one way or another. You need to step back, calm down and figure out what you can do to help them within reason (you know what is not doable. But what is doable?). All this hostility that you're feeling is just going to rip you to shreds if you let it.

[Anonymous]

Marriage counseling.

[Anonymous]

What ethnicity are your inlaws?

The more you post, the more they sound a lot like Asian inlaws. Am I right?