If you were beaten as a child….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH. I was “beaten” as a child. And I beat my kids. 🙄

Here’s the deal. I’m a guy. There were basically two kinds of corporal punishment when I was a kid. One was the angry swat to your butt, or when you’re a smart ass 12 year old, a slap to your face. Those I don’t recommend, but totally understand that it happens.

The other kind, which I fully endorse, and have implemented, is the calm, old school, “you disobeyed/lied/were totally defiant/ignored two warnings, and now you’re going to go over my knee and get a spanking.” Those are extremely effective because you know that it’s based on your actions, not on your parents’ anger.

And because it’s effective, it’s not something that’s happening all the time by any means, like some people will suggest is necessary for other discipline.

Where do you get the idea that it’s effective? How do you factor in potential harm? What do you think of the idea that the American academy of pediatrics and other professional organizations say spanking is ineffective at best and harmful at worst?

I know it’s effective from experiencing it and using it, alongside other methods. I’ve experienced and witnessed its effects. I also know from experience that I actually think that for younger kids, longer punishments and all this talk of “not making good choices” can often be more harmful and painful. Spanking is over fast and has a clean slate effect to it.

The AAP is officially opposed because they fear that too many people will confuse an endorsement of spanking as an excuse for overly severe correction. Agencies and groups like that are much more comfortable with blanket statements; they’re terrified of nuance. But I live and understand nuance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH. I was “beaten” as a child. And I beat my kids. 🙄

Here’s the deal. I’m a guy. There were basically two kinds of corporal punishment when I was a kid. One was the angry swat to your butt, or when you’re a smart ass 12 year old, a slap to your face. Those I don’t recommend, but totally understand that it happens.

The other kind, which I fully endorse, and have implemented, is the calm, old school, “you disobeyed/lied/were totally defiant/ignored two warnings, and now you’re going to go over my knee and get a spanking.” Those are extremely effective because you know that it’s based on your actions, not on your parents’ anger.

And because it’s effective, it’s not something that’s happening all the time by any means, like some people will suggest is necessary for other discipline.

Continuing for some of the comments.

Yeah, it’s embarrassing to be turned over your parent’s knee and spanked, especially if it warranted a bare butt spanking.

It’s more than a “tap” and less than a full “hit.”

For some of us, in particular, who have perfectionist tendencies, other punishments were far worse, and carried more adverse side effects, if that makes sense, because they go on for a lot longer, so you’re living with the guilt and disappointment a lot longer. That was always my take on it, as a nine year old.

As a perfectionist I wished my parents went back to spanking because the grounding and punishment made me upset. It lasted way too long and everyone knew I was in trouble. And I loathed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to therapy and learned proper coping techniques and desensitized from triggers instilled in childhood.

Please tell me more. Was it a particular kind? I thought I was fine but my teenagers are bringing all the memories and triggers back.

Dp. I started therapy recently because of this. In telling the therapist my childhood experiences, I am able to make sense of it all as an adult. She helps me reframe things and talking about it takes the sting away and lessens their power to trigger me. It is a combo of CBT and general "talk" therapy.

[Anonymous]

I don't think physical force is necessary, but kids are not adults. We should absolutely care but no one ever provides real examples of how to actually discipline. Not for little ones doing silly things but real things like consistently lying in children 8-14. I struggle with this because I want to show love and care but I also need to convey why it's important not to lie and manipulate and disrespect elders

There are lots of approaches to discipline and teaching kids that don't involve hitting. Look up "authoritative parenting", which absolutely relies on consequences and setting firm boundaries for kids while also respecting their bodily autonomy and making it clear you love them. This is how I parent and I don't even find that hitting enters my parenting vocabulary because I don't think it would be effective. It would be so horrible for both my kids and I, and break the trust I have built with them, which would only make it harder for me to discipline and guide them. It's essential that they trust me and see me as a source of wisdom. Hitting them would make that harder.

Also, specific to the subject of lying: I strongly encourage you to read up on WHY kids lie. And also to understand that all kids lie, it's not something unique to your kids. This is a pretty good summary of it: https://www.pbs.org/parents/thrive/why-kids-lie-and-what-to-do-about-it

I think it's extra important to focus in on the idea that often kids in this age group (8-14) lie to avoid getting in trouble, or because they are afraid that admitting they did something bad is the same as admitting they are bad people. My observation of people is that many, many adults never outgrow these behaviors. I have met people in their 30s, 40s, and 50s who continue to lie about their behavior, or deny doing things, because they are afraid that if they admit they did it, it's like admitting they are bad people. People carry around a LOT of shame about stuff like this and it's to everyone's detriment.

So addressing lying at this age involves rewarding truth, which might mean choosing not to punish your kid if they come to you and admit to something -- you have to reward them for their honesty. That can be very hard for parents but if you are working on lying it's really important. My advice would be to do this with anything they do that doesn't hurt another person. So if they come to you and reveal that they didn't do an important homework assignment and now have a bad grade in a class, that's a good opportunity to thank them for telling the truth, praise their decision to own their behavior, and not offer a punishment. I also wouldn't try to rescue them from the bad grade, but you can tell them you are proud of them for coming to you and then talk about how they will avoid this kind of mistake in the future.

Another thing parents often have to work on is having calm reactions to misbehavior. This is NOT the same as no consequences or being permissive. It means learning to control your own emotions so when your kid does something really, really bad, you can respond calmly and in a measured way. Parents who scream and shout and get very worked up in these situations will induce more lying in their kids because humans will instinctively try to avoid that kind of elevated emotional behavior. It's scary and stressful. Again, I see this even in adults. If the response to the truth is often very big and negative, people learn to lie just to keep the calm. So you need to prove to your kid that you can stay calm even when them mess up really bad. Otherwise they'll never want to tell you.

Anyway, the point is that there are lots of ways to address lying (which is a typical, near-universal childhood behavior and not something unique to your kid) and none of them involve hitting. In fact, hitting is likely to increase lying because it's scary and kids will lie to avoid getting hit. It's simply unproductive to what you are trying to achieve.

Best of luck. Parenting is hard.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how we now make up what abuse is.

Says the child beating ahole.

I mean I don’t do that. But tapping a child on the bottom is not abuse.

Tapping a child on the bottom or slapping the hand is not spanking or beating.

So if your husband did that to you, it would be ok, right?

How is a husband the equivalent of a small child?

They are a human being, they are part of your family, they deserve to be treated with respect and kindness.

And they are. But tapping a toddlers butt is not abuse. Tapping there hand is not abuse.

“Tapping” is just a wishy washy way of saying “hit”. Yes, hitting is always abuse.

How did I ever get my kid to behave without “tapping” his butt? Is my kid special? Am I a parenting savant? Why do parents who abuse their children always claim that there was no other way yet I personally know countless families with normal kids who never had to hit them?

There are countless families I know with normal kids that were tapped a few times? Like abuse is not tapping on the butt a couple times in childhood. This really takes away from REAL abuse that people experience. You can call it that but you know tapping a butt which people do in sports and other things is not a form of abuse. Good day.

People are individuals who experience the world through their own lens. For some, tapping is no big deal. My mother tapped me and I found it funny. Her hand was soft and gentle. I learned nothing from it, other than it was preferable to my dad, who beat me with a belt and verbally humiliated me. Whether you admit it or not, being touched (tap, slap, spank, beating) in the name of punishment is HUMILIATING. If that is your goal, to humiliate your child, who you brought in this world, have at it. Just don't expect them to respect, honor or care for you in your golden years. Or, prepare yourself to experience the fruits of your punishments while they tend to you in your vulnerable state of advanced age or poor health. You will be vulnerable one day, hopefully your caregivers are kinder and more patient than you were with your children.

What punishment isn’t potentially “humiliating”?
My parents spanked me. I actually didn’t find it humiliating- but they taught me to see the action I did that warranted the punishment as the source of shame. I still love and care for my parents. They were great parents

We are trying to enlighten you to the reality that you can raise healthy well balanced kids without the threat of shame being the primary motivating factor. Wouldn’t you want to explore that a little bit if that were possible? Why raise kids with negativity when it is completely unnecessary?

A month or so ago, there was a really great post in the teens thread about getting very angry when your children have emotional needs that were never filled for you by your parents when you were a child. It was a lovely thoughtful post and I don't want to summarize because I won't do it justice.

At some level, I see some of these pro-spanking posts kind of in the similar vein. These posters faced shameful/humiliating circumstances and it causes them pain to acknowledge that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH. I was “beaten” as a child. And I beat my kids. 🙄

Here’s the deal. I’m a guy. There were basically two kinds of corporal punishment when I was a kid. One was the angry swat to your butt, or when you’re a smart ass 12 year old, a slap to your face. Those I don’t recommend, but totally understand that it happens.

The other kind, which I fully endorse, and have implemented, is the calm, old school, “you disobeyed/lied/were totally defiant/ignored two warnings, and now you’re going to go over my knee and get a spanking.” Those are extremely effective because you know that it’s based on your actions, not on your parents’ anger.

And because it’s effective, it’s not something that’s happening all the time by any means, like some people will suggest is necessary for other discipline.

Continuing for some of the comments.

Yeah, it’s embarrassing to be turned over your parent’s knee and spanked, especially if it warranted a bare butt spanking.

It’s more than a “tap” and less than a full “hit.”

For some of us, in particular, who have perfectionist tendencies, other punishments were far worse, and carried more adverse side effects, if that makes sense, because they go on for a lot longer, so you’re living with the guilt and disappointment a lot longer. That was always my take on it, as a nine year old.

As a perfectionist I wished my parents went back to spanking because the grounding and punishment made me upset. It lasted way too long and everyone knew I was in trouble. And I loathed it.

Exactly. There were a few times I was not spanked and should have been, but the lectures and grounding instilled in me that “disappointment,” and I actually started exhibiting some anxiety tics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you believe spanking is fine but feel the need to refer to it as "tapping" (I was spanked, no one ever "tapped" my butt -- they were hitting me), ask yourself why you feel the need to use an inaccurate euphemism to describe this thing you think is totally fine.

Spanking is hitting. If you spank, you are hitting your kids. You are using your hand or another object to strike your child. If you don't spank but you think it's okay if others do, you are saying it's okay for people to hit their kids.

I just think we should be very clear about what we are talking about. You don't get to advocate for spanking and then make it sound like a gentle caress. Spanking is hitting. If you want to defend spanking, you need to be willing to defend hitting kids.

Go ahead.

Different person. I spank and I don't care what you think. No one even knows I do.

Your kids know and they'll never forget it.

Are you an idiot? Several people on this thread have verified they were spanked and they love their parents.

I'm one of those people who was "spanked" and loved my parents. They were abusive at times and loving at times. Very confusing. What I'm not confused about is the fact that you are an abusive person. Look at your word choice in a thread written by someone who specified "being beaten in childhood". This question was posted for adults who were beaten in childhood, not for abusive people who continue the cycle of abuse. Piss. Off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH. I was “beaten” as a child. And I beat my kids. 🙄

Here’s the deal. I’m a guy. There were basically two kinds of corporal punishment when I was a kid. One was the angry swat to your butt, or when you’re a smart ass 12 year old, a slap to your face. Those I don’t recommend, but totally understand that it happens.

The other kind, which I fully endorse, and have implemented, is the calm, old school, “you disobeyed/lied/were totally defiant/ignored two warnings, and now you’re going to go over my knee and get a spanking.” Those are extremely effective because you know that it’s based on your actions, not on your parents’ anger.

And because it’s effective, it’s not something that’s happening all the time by any means, like some people will suggest is necessary for other discipline.

Continuing for some of the comments.

Yeah, it’s embarrassing to be turned over your parent’s knee and spanked, especially if it warranted a bare butt spanking.

It’s more than a “tap” and less than a full “hit.”

For some of us, in particular, who have perfectionist tendencies, other punishments were far worse, and carried more adverse side effects, if that makes sense, because they go on for a lot longer, so you’re living with the guilt and disappointment a lot longer. That was always my take on it, as a nine year old.

As a perfectionist I wished my parents went back to spanking because the grounding and punishment made me upset. It lasted way too long and everyone knew I was in trouble. And I loathed it.

Exactly. There were a few times I was not spanked and should have been, but the lectures and grounding instilled in me that “disappointment,” and I actually started exhibiting some anxiety tics.

Yes. I actually do think some psychologists are on to something when they talk about grounding and punishments may not be helpful. There were so many times as a pre-teen and teen where I was "grounded" things like can't go to the movies, can't go to the mall that weekend, can't talk on the phone, cell phone taken away for a couple days after school. This is the stuff that had me boiling. And now that I think about it most of my friends also resented their parents for stuff like this and we were all spanked. I remember one friend committed suicide over one of her punishments which was she had to stay home that weekend. It's extreme but punishments really made me upset. It just lasted too long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think physical force is necessary, but kids are not adults. We should absolutely care but no one ever provides real examples of how to actually discipline. Not for little ones doing silly things but real things like consistently lying in children 8-14. I struggle with this because I want to show love and care but I also need to convey why it's important not to lie and manipulate and disrespect elders

There are lots of approaches to discipline and teaching kids that don't involve hitting. Look up "authoritative parenting", which absolutely relies on consequences and setting firm boundaries for kids while also respecting their bodily autonomy and making it clear you love them. This is how I parent and I don't even find that hitting enters my parenting vocabulary because I don't think it would be effective. It would be so horrible for both my kids and I, and break the trust I have built with them, which would only make it harder for me to discipline and guide them. It's essential that they trust me and see me as a source of wisdom. Hitting them would make that harder.

Also, specific to the subject of lying: I strongly encourage you to read up on WHY kids lie. And also to understand that all kids lie, it's not something unique to your kids. This is a pretty good summary of it: https://www.pbs.org/parents/thrive/why-kids-lie-and-what-to-do-about-it

I think it's extra important to focus in on the idea that often kids in this age group (8-14) lie to avoid getting in trouble, or because they are afraid that admitting they did something bad is the same as admitting they are bad people. My observation of people is that many, many adults never outgrow these behaviors. I have met people in their 30s, 40s, and 50s who continue to lie about their behavior, or deny doing things, because they are afraid that if they admit they did it, it's like admitting they are bad people. People carry around a LOT of shame about stuff like this and it's to everyone's detriment.

So addressing lying at this age involves rewarding truth, which might mean choosing not to punish your kid if they come to you and admit to something -- you have to reward them for their honesty. That can be very hard for parents but if you are working on lying it's really important. My advice would be to do this with anything they do that doesn't hurt another person. So if they come to you and reveal that they didn't do an important homework assignment and now have a bad grade in a class, that's a good opportunity to thank them for telling the truth, praise their decision to own their behavior, and not offer a punishment. I also wouldn't try to rescue them from the bad grade, but you can tell them you are proud of them for coming to you and then talk about how they will avoid this kind of mistake in the future.

Another thing parents often have to work on is having calm reactions to misbehavior. This is NOT the same as no consequences or being permissive. It means learning to control your own emotions so when your kid does something really, really bad, you can respond calmly and in a measured way. Parents who scream and shout and get very worked up in these situations will induce more lying in their kids because humans will instinctively try to avoid that kind of elevated emotional behavior. It's scary and stressful. Again, I see this even in adults. If the response to the truth is often very big and negative, people learn to lie just to keep the calm. So you need to prove to your kid that you can stay calm even when them mess up really bad. Otherwise they'll never want to tell you.

Anyway, the point is that there are lots of ways to address lying (which is a typical, near-universal childhood behavior and not something unique to your kid) and none of them involve hitting. In fact, hitting is likely to increase lying because it's scary and kids will lie to avoid getting hit. It's simply unproductive to what you are trying to achieve.

Best of luck. Parenting is hard.

I hear you but this is concerning. Sometimes lying has serious consequences. I was rewarded for the truth but I agree people lie at any age. It just makes me nervous that one lie could really be detrimental. I've seen people get fired or get in trouble with the police. Parenting is hard and I am seeing there is just no right answer to this. Especially when teenagers go off to college...integrity is just so crucial.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Here’s the deal. I am Black American. In my “culture” spankings and beatings are the norm. I still do not do it and know it is wrong. I was spanked and don’t want that for my kids. I don’t care that it is acceptable in other cultures. Female genitalia mutilation is acceptable in some cultures, but we are pretty comfortable blanket deciding that practice is wrong right? What about child brides? Some cultures find that practice acceptable. IMO this is an issue where there is a clear right side and wrong side.


Would you hit an adult who defies you or pisses you off in some way? And have that be an acceptable course of action with that person where they would be expected to continue having a normal relationship with you after being hit? If it is not ok, why are you claiming it is acceptable in any way to beat kids?

Oh please. Would you take a toy from an adult as punishment. Would you ask an adult to sit in a corner for a few minutes as punishment? Would you call an adult's mother if they misbehave at work?

I don't spank, but this rationale of treating kids as adults would categorize most forms of punishment as wrong.

It would depend on the cognitive capacities of the adult. If an adult I was in charge of caring for was using his toy to hit people or something I would absolutely take it away.

Exactly. Kids don't have the cognitive ability to be treated as adults. There are arguments against spanking but this " if it's not ok with an adult, the why do it with kids? " argument is weak sauce because kids are not adults.

Exactly. But many of these new methods think consequences are wrong. Which is wild.

Nobody is saying that consequences are wrong. Nobody. Where do you guys come up with such nonsense?

It’s like you just cannot convince a person who hits children that the alternative is not chaos and anarchy. They cannot fathom a parent who can controll their kid any other way.

s

Seriously, there is a lot of guidance by psychologists that talking it out is better. I'm not saying it's right, but many of my friends don't believe it's right to have consequences for children. Spanking is wrong (ok sure makes sense), taking privileges away is wrong, have consequences doesn't help. So all I hear is to talk nicely and show empathy. I just don't understand how that leads to a respect for authority.

NP here.

You’re right that a lot of parents are way too permissive and don’t know how to set appropriate boundaries with their kids. But actually parents who spank can sometimes be like that too, and it’s not a new thing. It has always been the case that some parents don’t have the skills to be anything other than permissive.

For me, a respect for authority is not the goal. I want my kids to respect people, not authority (and anybody, authority figures included, can be undeserving of respect).

I am trying to focus on teaching my kids to regulate their emotions, to understand that their behavior has consequences for others, that it’s unacceptable to hurt others, and that they need to take accountability for their actions and the impacts of their actions. It’s hard to get there, but I just try to be firm and enforce boundaries while still being respectful. I don’t try to protect their feelings at the expense of important life lessons; their negative feelings are okay and can be useful.

Anyway, this is all really hard and it’s what I go for. And I’m so focused on that that it never crossed my mind to spank.

It's sad parents don't teach respect for authority. This is why kids are disrespectful to teachers, police officers, principals. Disgusting. And we wonder why crazy stuff is happening in the news.

Really? I’d rather have my kids be like the founding fathers who rebelled against their king because of taxes than like somebody who just blindly does what they’re told just because somebody had been endowed with authority.

Like I said, I want my kids to respect *people.* This includes authority figures. I would not be okay with my kid refusing to follow a teachers instructions to line up quietly , for instance. But I would also not want my kid to assume that you should always do what you’re told to do by a person in a position of power.

NP. You can respect people and not blindly follow. This statement is super ignorant.

DP It seems to me like the two of you agree that respect is good and blind obedience is bad. No need to be hostile.

Yes, but as a teacher I hate parents that believe they should not teach kids to respect authority. It makes our job so impossibly hard.

Real power is earned and not given based on job title or rank. That is a universal fact among human beings.

This is an odd statement considering for how long in human history power was based on physical dominance. Now that we are moving away from that, we need other ways to define power. Being the teacher in a classroom, is one way.

I don’t think you understand history very well. Hitler was not a big strong man. Neither was Napolean, or Kim Jong or Stalin or….

Power comes from persuasion, not brute strength.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Here’s the deal. I am Black American. In my “culture” spankings and beatings are the norm. I still do not do it and know it is wrong. I was spanked and don’t want that for my kids. I don’t care that it is acceptable in other cultures. Female genitalia mutilation is acceptable in some cultures, but we are pretty comfortable blanket deciding that practice is wrong right? What about child brides? Some cultures find that practice acceptable. IMO this is an issue where there is a clear right side and wrong side.


Would you hit an adult who defies you or pisses you off in some way? And have that be an acceptable course of action with that person where they would be expected to continue having a normal relationship with you after being hit? If it is not ok, why are you claiming it is acceptable in any way to beat kids?

Oh please. Would you take a toy from an adult as punishment. Would you ask an adult to sit in a corner for a few minutes as punishment? Would you call an adult's mother if they misbehave at work?

I don't spank, but this rationale of treating kids as adults would categorize most forms of punishment as wrong.

It would depend on the cognitive capacities of the adult. If an adult I was in charge of caring for was using his toy to hit people or something I would absolutely take it away.

Exactly. Kids don't have the cognitive ability to be treated as adults. There are arguments against spanking but this " if it's not ok with an adult, the why do it with kids? " argument is weak sauce because kids are not adults.

Exactly. But many of these new methods think consequences are wrong. Which is wild.

Nobody is saying that consequences are wrong. Nobody. Where do you guys come up with such nonsense?

It’s like you just cannot convince a person who hits children that the alternative is not chaos and anarchy. They cannot fathom a parent who can controll their kid any other way.

s

Seriously, there is a lot of guidance by psychologists that talking it out is better. I'm not saying it's right, but many of my friends don't believe it's right to have consequences for children. Spanking is wrong (ok sure makes sense), taking privileges away is wrong, have consequences doesn't help. So all I hear is to talk nicely and show empathy. I just don't understand how that leads to a respect for authority.

NP here.

You’re right that a lot of parents are way too permissive and don’t know how to set appropriate boundaries with their kids. But actually parents who spank can sometimes be like that too, and it’s not a new thing. It has always been the case that some parents don’t have the skills to be anything other than permissive.

For me, a respect for authority is not the goal. I want my kids to respect people, not authority (and anybody, authority figures included, can be undeserving of respect).

I am trying to focus on teaching my kids to regulate their emotions, to understand that their behavior has consequences for others, that it’s unacceptable to hurt others, and that they need to take accountability for their actions and the impacts of their actions. It’s hard to get there, but I just try to be firm and enforce boundaries while still being respectful. I don’t try to protect their feelings at the expense of important life lessons; their negative feelings are okay and can be useful.

Anyway, this is all really hard and it’s what I go for. And I’m so focused on that that it never crossed my mind to spank.

It's sad parents don't teach respect for authority. This is why kids are disrespectful to teachers, police officers, principals. Disgusting. And we wonder why crazy stuff is happening in the news.

Really? I’d rather have my kids be like the founding fathers who rebelled against their king because of taxes than like somebody who just blindly does what they’re told just because somebody had been endowed with authority.

Like I said, I want my kids to respect *people.* This includes authority figures. I would not be okay with my kid refusing to follow a teachers instructions to line up quietly , for instance. But I would also not want my kid to assume that you should always do what you’re told to do by a person in a position of power.

NP. You can respect people and not blindly follow. This statement is super ignorant.

DP It seems to me like the two of you agree that respect is good and blind obedience is bad. No need to be hostile.

Yes, but as a teacher I hate parents that believe they should not teach kids to respect authority. It makes our job so impossibly hard.

Real power is earned and not given based on job title or rank. That is a universal fact among human beings.

This is an odd statement considering for how long in human history power was based on physical dominance. Now that we are moving away from that, we need other ways to define power. Being the teacher in a classroom, is one way.

I don’t think you understand history very well. Hitler was not a big strong man. Neither was Napolean, or Kim Jong or Stalin or….

Power comes from persuasion, not brute strength.

Ummm without the physical part what did he really have though? You sound stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you believe spanking is fine but feel the need to refer to it as "tapping" (I was spanked, no one ever "tapped" my butt -- they were hitting me), ask yourself why you feel the need to use an inaccurate euphemism to describe this thing you think is totally fine.

Spanking is hitting. If you spank, you are hitting your kids. You are using your hand or another object to strike your child. If you don't spank but you think it's okay if others do, you are saying it's okay for people to hit their kids.

I just think we should be very clear about what we are talking about. You don't get to advocate for spanking and then make it sound like a gentle caress. Spanking is hitting. If you want to defend spanking, you need to be willing to defend hitting kids.

Go ahead.

Different person. I spank and I don't care what you think. No one even knows I do.

Your kids know and they'll never forget it.

Are you an idiot? Several people on this thread have verified they were spanked and they love their parents.

I'm one of those people who was "spanked" and loved my parents. They were abusive at times and loving at times. Very confusing. What I'm not confused about is the fact that you are an abusive person. Look at your word choice in a thread written by someone who specified "being beaten in childhood". This question was posted for adults who were beaten in childhood, not for abusive people who continue the cycle of abuse. Piss. Off.

You are an idiot. Your experience is not my experience. I was not confused by it in the least bit. I also was never beaten. Bending over on someone's lap is not being beaten.

DP here… that pp was correct. You are an abusive person.

Seriously, then half the world is.

Or way more than half.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/05/millennials-like-to-spank-their-kids-just-as-much-as-their-parents-did/

But ignore these posters. “Abuse” has legal criteria, and normal spanking does not qualify. That’s not a matter of opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think physical force is necessary, but kids are not adults. We should absolutely care but no one ever provides real examples of how to actually discipline. Not for little ones doing silly things but real things like consistently lying in children 8-14. I struggle with this because I want to show love and care but I also need to convey why it's important not to lie and manipulate and disrespect elders

There are lots of approaches to discipline and teaching kids that don't involve hitting. Look up "authoritative parenting", which absolutely relies on consequences and setting firm boundaries for kids while also respecting their bodily autonomy and making it clear you love them. This is how I parent and I don't even find that hitting enters my parenting vocabulary because I don't think it would be effective. It would be so horrible for both my kids and I, and break the trust I have built with them, which would only make it harder for me to discipline and guide them. It's essential that they trust me and see me as a source of wisdom. Hitting them would make that harder.

Also, specific to the subject of lying: I strongly encourage you to read up on WHY kids lie. And also to understand that all kids lie, it's not something unique to your kids. This is a pretty good summary of it: https://www.pbs.org/parents/thrive/why-kids-lie-and-what-to-do-about-it

I think it's extra important to focus in on the idea that often kids in this age group (8-14) lie to avoid getting in trouble, or because they are afraid that admitting they did something bad is the same as admitting they are bad people. My observation of people is that many, many adults never outgrow these behaviors. I have met people in their 30s, 40s, and 50s who continue to lie about their behavior, or deny doing things, because they are afraid that if they admit they did it, it's like admitting they are bad people. People carry around a LOT of shame about stuff like this and it's to everyone's detriment.

So addressing lying at this age involves rewarding truth, which might mean choosing not to punish your kid if they come to you and admit to something -- you have to reward them for their honesty. That can be very hard for parents but if you are working on lying it's really important. My advice would be to do this with anything they do that doesn't hurt another person. So if they come to you and reveal that they didn't do an important homework assignment and now have a bad grade in a class, that's a good opportunity to thank them for telling the truth, praise their decision to own their behavior, and not offer a punishment. I also wouldn't try to rescue them from the bad grade, but you can tell them you are proud of them for coming to you and then talk about how they will avoid this kind of mistake in the future.

Another thing parents often have to work on is having calm reactions to misbehavior. This is NOT the same as no consequences or being permissive. It means learning to control your own emotions so when your kid does something really, really bad, you can respond calmly and in a measured way. Parents who scream and shout and get very worked up in these situations will induce more lying in their kids because humans will instinctively try to avoid that kind of elevated emotional behavior. It's scary and stressful. Again, I see this even in adults. If the response to the truth is often very big and negative, people learn to lie just to keep the calm. So you need to prove to your kid that you can stay calm even when them mess up really bad. Otherwise they'll never want to tell you.

Anyway, the point is that there are lots of ways to address lying (which is a typical, near-universal childhood behavior and not something unique to your kid) and none of them involve hitting. In fact, hitting is likely to increase lying because it's scary and kids will lie to avoid getting hit. It's simply unproductive to what you are trying to achieve.

Best of luck. Parenting is hard.

I hear you but this is concerning. Sometimes lying has serious consequences. I was rewarded for the truth but I agree people lie at any age. It just makes me nervous that one lie could really be detrimental. I've seen people get fired or get in trouble with the police. Parenting is hard and I am seeing there is just no right answer to this. Especially when teenagers go off to college...integrity is just so crucial.

That's fine but do you see how spanking/hitting will not make your child learn to tell the truth? It will have the opposite effect. Hitting kids for lying just teaches them they need to learn to lie more effectively. It does not make them want to come to you with the truth, especially if the truth is bad.

Yes, it's a tricky situation but hitting is NOT the answer. The idea that hitting is the only way to deal with lying is very, very poor parenting. Please understand this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you believe spanking is fine but feel the need to refer to it as "tapping" (I was spanked, no one ever "tapped" my butt -- they were hitting me), ask yourself why you feel the need to use an inaccurate euphemism to describe this thing you think is totally fine.

Spanking is hitting. If you spank, you are hitting your kids. You are using your hand or another object to strike your child. If you don't spank but you think it's okay if others do, you are saying it's okay for people to hit their kids.

I just think we should be very clear about what we are talking about. You don't get to advocate for spanking and then make it sound like a gentle caress. Spanking is hitting. If you want to defend spanking, you need to be willing to defend hitting kids.

Go ahead.

Different person. I spank and I don't care what you think. No one even knows I do.

Your kids know and they'll never forget it.

Are you an idiot? Several people on this thread have verified they were spanked and they love their parents.

I'm one of those people who was "spanked" and loved my parents. They were abusive at times and loving at times. Very confusing. What I'm not confused about is the fact that you are an abusive person. Look at your word choice in a thread written by someone who specified "being beaten in childhood". This question was posted for adults who were beaten in childhood, not for abusive people who continue the cycle of abuse. Piss. Off.

You are an idiot. Your experience is not my experience. I was not confused by it in the least bit. I also was never beaten. Bending over on someone's lap is not being beaten.

DP here… that pp was correct. You are an abusive person.

Seriously, then half the world is.

Now you’re on to something! Why do you think humans cause so much suffering in the world?

All because of spanking? Seriously, there are many other things that are causing suffering. I get what you're saying but spanking is not the leading cause of suffering in this world. If I spank my kids 3 times over the course of their childhood somehow that makes me an abuser? That's fine if you think so. CPS does not think so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think physical force is necessary, but kids are not adults. We should absolutely care but no one ever provides real examples of how to actually discipline. Not for little ones doing silly things but real things like consistently lying in children 8-14. I struggle with this because I want to show love and care but I also need to convey why it's important not to lie and manipulate and disrespect elders

There are lots of approaches to discipline and teaching kids that don't involve hitting. Look up "authoritative parenting", which absolutely relies on consequences and setting firm boundaries for kids while also respecting their bodily autonomy and making it clear you love them. This is how I parent and I don't even find that hitting enters my parenting vocabulary because I don't think it would be effective. It would be so horrible for both my kids and I, and break the trust I have built with them, which would only make it harder for me to discipline and guide them. It's essential that they trust me and see me as a source of wisdom. Hitting them would make that harder.

Also, specific to the subject of lying: I strongly encourage you to read up on WHY kids lie. And also to understand that all kids lie, it's not something unique to your kids. This is a pretty good summary of it: https://www.pbs.org/parents/thrive/why-kids-lie-and-what-to-do-about-it

I think it's extra important to focus in on the idea that often kids in this age group (8-14) lie to avoid getting in trouble, or because they are afraid that admitting they did something bad is the same as admitting they are bad people. My observation of people is that many, many adults never outgrow these behaviors. I have met people in their 30s, 40s, and 50s who continue to lie about their behavior, or deny doing things, because they are afraid that if they admit they did it, it's like admitting they are bad people. People carry around a LOT of shame about stuff like this and it's to everyone's detriment.

So addressing lying at this age involves rewarding truth, which might mean choosing not to punish your kid if they come to you and admit to something -- you have to reward them for their honesty. That can be very hard for parents but if you are working on lying it's really important. My advice would be to do this with anything they do that doesn't hurt another person. So if they come to you and reveal that they didn't do an important homework assignment and now have a bad grade in a class, that's a good opportunity to thank them for telling the truth, praise their decision to own their behavior, and not offer a punishment. I also wouldn't try to rescue them from the bad grade, but you can tell them you are proud of them for coming to you and then talk about how they will avoid this kind of mistake in the future.

Another thing parents often have to work on is having calm reactions to misbehavior. This is NOT the same as no consequences or being permissive. It means learning to control your own emotions so when your kid does something really, really bad, you can respond calmly and in a measured way. Parents who scream and shout and get very worked up in these situations will induce more lying in their kids because humans will instinctively try to avoid that kind of elevated emotional behavior. It's scary and stressful. Again, I see this even in adults. If the response to the truth is often very big and negative, people learn to lie just to keep the calm. So you need to prove to your kid that you can stay calm even when them mess up really bad. Otherwise they'll never want to tell you.

Anyway, the point is that there are lots of ways to address lying (which is a typical, near-universal childhood behavior and not something unique to your kid) and none of them involve hitting. In fact, hitting is likely to increase lying because it's scary and kids will lie to avoid getting hit. It's simply unproductive to what you are trying to achieve.

Best of luck. Parenting is hard.

I hear you but this is concerning. Sometimes lying has serious consequences. I was rewarded for the truth but I agree people lie at any age. It just makes me nervous that one lie could really be detrimental. I've seen people get fired or get in trouble with the police. Parenting is hard and I am seeing there is just no right answer to this. Especially when teenagers go off to college...integrity is just so crucial.

That's fine but do you see how spanking/hitting will not make your child learn to tell the truth? It will have the opposite effect. Hitting kids for lying just teaches them they need to learn to lie more effectively. It does not make them want to come to you with the truth, especially if the truth is bad.

Yes, it's a tricky situation but hitting is NOT the answer. The idea that hitting is the only way to deal with lying is very, very poor parenting. Please understand this.

Oh no! I'm not saying spanking is the answer especially for older kids. I am saying that either way this behavior is inevitable. You said it yourself. People lie at any age. I honestly don't know how to combat pathological or habitual liars. I personally think I can correct, but ultimately sometimes hard lessons have to happen. I just have many friends that will defend their teen that lies which is super problematic.