If you were beaten as a child….

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you believe spanking is fine but feel the need to refer to it as "tapping" (I was spanked, no one ever "tapped" my butt -- they were hitting me), ask yourself why you feel the need to use an inaccurate euphemism to describe this thing you think is totally fine.

Spanking is hitting. If you spank, you are hitting your kids. You are using your hand or another object to strike your child. If you don't spank but you think it's okay if others do, you are saying it's okay for people to hit their kids.

I just think we should be very clear about what we are talking about. You don't get to advocate for spanking and then make it sound like a gentle caress. Spanking is hitting. If you want to defend spanking, you need to be willing to defend hitting kids.

Go ahead.

Different person. I spank and I don't care what you think. No one even knows I do.

Your kids know and they'll never forget it.

Are you an idiot? Several people on this thread have verified they were spanked and they love their parents.

I'm one of those people who was "spanked" and loved my parents. They were abusive at times and loving at times. Very confusing. What I'm not confused about is the fact that you are an abusive person. Look at your word choice in a thread written by someone who specified "being beaten in childhood". This question was posted for adults who were beaten in childhood, not for abusive people who continue the cycle of abuse. Piss. Off.

You are an idiot. Your experience is not my experience. I was not confused by it in the least bit. I also was never beaten. Bending over on someone's lap is not being beaten.

DP here… that pp was correct. You are an abusive person.

Seriously, then half the world is.

Now you’re on to something! Why do you think humans cause so much suffering in the world?

All because of spanking? Seriously, there are many other things that are causing suffering. I get what you're saying but spanking is not the leading cause of suffering in this world. If I spank my kids 3 times over the course of their childhood somehow that makes me an abuser? That's fine if you think so. CPS does not think so.

All because of trauma. One of which is definitely being beaten as a child.

This is so obvious and clear to so many of us that it is actually shocking to see so much confusion regarding this sort of cause/effect. Don’t you see how violent places like Afghanistan are? Culturally ingrained violence? Why is this not clearly related to how they treat their children?

So killing is the same as spanking. Ok. If it were it would be illegal. Come on. I don't spank but this is an extreme view. I am also pro-life and have a view that many would not agree with...

If you can’t see a direct line from being abused as a child to being an abusive and violent adult then you are beyond reason. No, that is not an “extreme” view.

I'm with you but what about the millions of people that were spanked and are not violent. Nobody is addressing that. My friends that were spanked and spank now aren't violent. This is very extreme to me.

If they spank their own kids then they ARE violent. Many kids who are abused do not abuse others but many do. Not sure what you think that proves.

Shut up Karen, you have ZERO clue what violence mean.

Educate yourself!

https://time.com/3387226/spanking-can-be-an-appropriate-form-of-child-discipline/

Look at the repeated rude and hostile comments by pro-spanking DCUMers! They call people names and bullying insults. Obvious connection on display right here.

PP, she called people violent for spanking.

I don't spank my kids, but I don't disagree with it. Same as Abortion.

So yes, I guess you need to educate yourself.

FYI, Virginia allows for, “Corporal Punishment.” That means that spanking and other forms of physical punishment is permitted. However, it is limited to “reasonable” physical punishment in “due moderation.”

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title22/agency40/chapter141/section150/

Did you read your link? Is this a test to see if we did? It links to laws governing foster homes, specifically Discipline of Children. It states, "There shall be no physical punishment, rough play or severe disciplinary action administered to the body such as, but not limited to, spanking, striking or hitting with a part of the body or an implement, pinching, pulling or roughly handling a child, shaking a child, forcing a child to assume an uncomfortable position (e.g., standing on one foot, keeping arms raised above or horizontal to the body), restraining to restrict movement through binding or tying, enclosing in a confined space, or using exercise as punishment."

I don't see what you are referring to about reasonable physical punishment in due moderation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yes. I actually do think some psychologists are on to something when they talk about grounding and punishments may not be helpful. There were so many times as a pre-teen and teen where I was "grounded" things like can't go to the movies, can't go to the mall that weekend, can't talk on the phone, cell phone taken away for a couple days after school. This is the stuff that had me boiling. And now that I think about it most of my friends also resented their parents for stuff like this and we were all spanked. I remember one friend committed suicide over one of her punishments which was she had to stay home that weekend. It's extreme but punishments really made me upset. It just lasted too long.

So where is this going? No punishment for misbehavior at all? You can't hit them, you can't ground them, you can't take their phone away... so what, exactly, do you do when your teen defies you or doesn't do their homework or chores or whatever?

And oh by the way "that had me boiling" was the point. Punishment is supposed to be punishing. Duh.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Here’s the deal. I am Black American. In my “culture” spankings and beatings are the norm. I still do not do it and know it is wrong. I was spanked and don’t want that for my kids. I don’t care that it is acceptable in other cultures. Female genitalia mutilation is acceptable in some cultures, but we are pretty comfortable blanket deciding that practice is wrong right? What about child brides? Some cultures find that practice acceptable. IMO this is an issue where there is a clear right side and wrong side.


Would you hit an adult who defies you or pisses you off in some way? And have that be an acceptable course of action with that person where they would be expected to continue having a normal relationship with you after being hit? If it is not ok, why are you claiming it is acceptable in any way to beat kids?

Oh please. Would you take a toy from an adult as punishment. Would you ask an adult to sit in a corner for a few minutes as punishment? Would you call an adult's mother if they misbehave at work?

I don't spank, but this rationale of treating kids as adults would categorize most forms of punishment as wrong.

It would depend on the cognitive capacities of the adult. If an adult I was in charge of caring for was using his toy to hit people or something I would absolutely take it away.

Exactly. Kids don't have the cognitive ability to be treated as adults. There are arguments against spanking but this " if it's not ok with an adult, the why do it with kids? " argument is weak sauce because kids are not adults.

Exactly. But many of these new methods think consequences are wrong. Which is wild.

Nobody is saying that consequences are wrong. Nobody. Where do you guys come up with such nonsense?

It’s like you just cannot convince a person who hits children that the alternative is not chaos and anarchy. They cannot fathom a parent who can controll their kid any other way.

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Seriously, there is a lot of guidance by psychologists that talking it out is better. I'm not saying it's right, but many of my friends don't believe it's right to have consequences for children. Spanking is wrong (ok sure makes sense), taking privileges away is wrong, have consequences doesn't help. So all I hear is to talk nicely and show empathy. I just don't understand how that leads to a respect for authority.

NP here.

You’re right that a lot of parents are way too permissive and don’t know how to set appropriate boundaries with their kids. But actually parents who spank can sometimes be like that too, and it’s not a new thing. It has always been the case that some parents don’t have the skills to be anything other than permissive.

For me, a respect for authority is not the goal. I want my kids to respect people, not authority (and anybody, authority figures included, can be undeserving of respect).

I am trying to focus on teaching my kids to regulate their emotions, to understand that their behavior has consequences for others, that it’s unacceptable to hurt others, and that they need to take accountability for their actions and the impacts of their actions. It’s hard to get there, but I just try to be firm and enforce boundaries while still being respectful. I don’t try to protect their feelings at the expense of important life lessons; their negative feelings are okay and can be useful.

Anyway, this is all really hard and it’s what I go for. And I’m so focused on that that it never crossed my mind to spank.

It's sad parents don't teach respect for authority. This is why kids are disrespectful to teachers, police officers, principals. Disgusting. And we wonder why crazy stuff is happening in the news.

Really? I’d rather have my kids be like the founding fathers who rebelled against their king because of taxes than like somebody who just blindly does what they’re told just because somebody had been endowed with authority.

Like I said, I want my kids to respect *people.* This includes authority figures. I would not be okay with my kid refusing to follow a teachers instructions to line up quietly , for instance. But I would also not want my kid to assume that you should always do what you’re told to do by a person in a position of power.

NP. You can respect people and not blindly follow. This statement is super ignorant.

DP It seems to me like the two of you agree that respect is good and blind obedience is bad. No need to be hostile.

Yes, but as a teacher I hate parents that believe they should not teach kids to respect authority. It makes our job so impossibly hard.

Real power is earned and not given based on job title or rank. That is a universal fact among human beings.

This is an odd statement considering for how long in human history power was based on physical dominance. Now that we are moving away from that, we need other ways to define power. Being the teacher in a classroom, is one way.

I don’t think you understand history very well. Hitler was not a big strong man. Neither was Napolean, or Kim Jong or Stalin or….

Power comes from persuasion, not brute strength.

I don’t think you understand history very well. Dictators have other people use brute strength on their behalf. They don't need to be personally strong because they have armies and police. Their "power of persuasion" came from the knowledge that the dictator could have you shot if you got out of line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, but as a teacher I hate parents that believe they should not teach kids to respect authority. It makes our job so impossibly hard.

Respect has to be earned. If you're not earning it, that's on you. For example, my kids have noted that all their gym teachers are fat. It is impossible for them to respect health advice from someone who is obviously unhealthy.

[Anonymous]

I was spanked all the time as a child. I don’t spank my children ever. But I think there is a significant difference between abuse and 90s‘ parents spanking. The sort of senseless, random, rage-filled violence that abused children experience is very different from the if-you-do-x-then-you-get-a-spanking premeditated consequence my parents inflicted. I can’t get myself to spank my kids because it seems awful, but I wouldn’t characterize my parents‘ spankings as abusive or violent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was spanked all the time as a child. I don’t spank my children ever. But I think there is a significant difference between abuse and 90s‘ parents spanking. The sort of senseless, random, rage-filled violence that abused children experience is very different from the if-you-do-x-then-you-get-a-spanking premeditated consequence my parents inflicted. I can’t get myself to spank my kids because it seems awful, but I wouldn’t characterize my parents‘ spankings as abusive or violent.

Striking a person is violent. Striking a child is cruel. Of course you don't want to think of them as being abusive at times or violent. And yet you admit spanking is awful. Cognitive dissonance. I acknowledge that my parents' spanking me was abusive and damaged me. I comfort myself by thinking they did the best they could, which was better than they experienced. My kids will never be abused in their home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was spanked all the time as a child. I don’t spank my children ever. But I think there is a significant difference between abuse and 90s‘ parents spanking. The sort of senseless, random, rage-filled violence that abused children experience is very different from the if-you-do-x-then-you-get-a-spanking premeditated consequence my parents inflicted. I can’t get myself to spank my kids because it seems awful, but I wouldn’t characterize my parents‘ spankings as abusive or violent.

I got both kinds of spankings as a kid - dad did the senseless angry kind, mom did the premeditated consequence kind. There was no significant difference as far as I was concerned, other than with mom I could prepare myself by putting some newspapers in the back of my shorts before she went to work with the hairbrush or the wooden spoon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:….how do you manage not repeating this with you own kids?

FTR I don’t hit my kids. But I will admit to sometimes being so filled with rage when they are being especially difficult that I get overwhelmed with the urge to do what I experienced as a kid. I always manage to fight it off but it is hard. Harder than I think it should be.

Anyone else in similar shoes? If you were beaten (whatever your own definition of corporal punishment is and your own line of what’s acceptable) do you have a hard time avoiding a repeat of the past?

Kid is grown up now, but no. My memories of pretty severe physical punishment (IDK what people define as beaten, I know there are kids who have had it much worse, but even as a teen there were a few times when I had deep purple bruises) were pretty well seared into me, would never want to do to my kid.

There was a brief stretch when stuff we were doing wasn't working--kid was very high strong (a lot of neuropsych stuff going on) so time outs meant restraint, which seemed to make things worse for him. We actually discussed this with him (he was maybe 5) and he said he would prefer spanking. We did that a few times but it just felt awkward. I worked to find more ways to stave off issues on the front end.

FWIW physical punishment wasn't that common as I recall. Wasn't like getting a swat across the face if you lipped off. It was more like if my dad was really pissed off, it was his hand or the belt--for something that might have been disregarded other times. My mom really didn't do that stuff, although she would sometimes pinch--hard. She pinched me when I was 17 at my grandparents' house and I did not want to join in some really dumb game she was organizing, got a ferocious pinch on my upper arm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was spanked all the time as a child. I don’t spank my children ever. But I think there is a significant difference between abuse and 90s‘ parents spanking. The sort of senseless, random, rage-filled violence that abused children experience is very different from the if-you-do-x-then-you-get-a-spanking premeditated consequence my parents inflicted. I can’t get myself to spank my kids because it seems awful, but I wouldn’t characterize my parents‘ spankings as abusive or violent.

Striking a person is violent. Striking a child is cruel. Of course you don't want to think of them as being abusive at times or violent. And yet you admit spanking is awful. Cognitive dissonance. I acknowledge that my parents' spanking me was abusive and damaged me. I comfort myself by thinking they did the best they could, which was better than they experienced. My kids will never be abused in their home.

PP here: I don’t know what to tell you, other than that parents since the beginning of time have swatted, switched and spanked their offspring (and others!). That we collectively decided to make it unlawful is actually very modern and unorthodox. Ironically, children are wildly more disobedient than ever. I don’t spank my children because I can’t stomach it (a modern parent am I!). But I witness children on a daily basis that are so irritating and disrespectful to adults that I wonder if our generation should be so smug in our gentle parenting approach. Parents have lost all will to punish so they uselessly beg Larlo to stop irritating the entire world around him until they lose it and yell. But sure, spanking was worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was spanked all the time as a child. I don’t spank my children ever. But I think there is a significant difference between abuse and 90s‘ parents spanking. The sort of senseless, random, rage-filled violence that abused children experience is very different from the if-you-do-x-then-you-get-a-spanking premeditated consequence my parents inflicted. I can’t get myself to spank my kids because it seems awful, but I wouldn’t characterize my parents‘ spankings as abusive or violent.

Striking a person is violent. Striking a child is cruel. Of course you don't want to think of them as being abusive at times or violent. And yet you admit spanking is awful. Cognitive dissonance. I acknowledge that my parents' spanking me was abusive and damaged me. I comfort myself by thinking they did the best they could, which was better than they experienced. My kids will never be abused in their home.

PP here: I don’t know what to tell you, other than that parents since the beginning of time have swatted, switched and spanked their offspring (and others!). That we collectively decided to make it unlawful is actually very modern and unorthodox. Ironically, children are wildly more disobedient than ever. I don’t spank my children because I can’t stomach it (a modern parent am I!). But I witness children on a daily basis that are so irritating and disrespectful to adults that I wonder if our generation should be so smug in our gentle parenting approach. Parents have lost all will to punish so they uselessly beg Larlo to stop irritating the entire world around him until they lose it and yell. But sure, spanking was worse.

Enslavement has also been around through the beginning of time and only in modern times has it been unlawful.

[Anonymous]

From experience, violence begets violence. And spanking is violence. By spanking you teach children than hitting is an acceptable form of handling problems and stress. And the cycle continues because then when they act out with violence, they get spanked again, and get angrier and angrier. It doesn’t work. I’ve never spanked my kids, and it’s not because they’re easy. Every personality is different and often the most challenging child is actually highly sensitive and most harmed by spanking. If your frustration levels are high, please seek counseling to learn how to cut those triggers and past examples of abuse, and break that cycle.

[Anonymous]

I got spanked as a child, and honest to goodness do not resent my mother for it. DH was also spanked growing up and he’s very close to his mom. Neither of us are violent, Andre people, and never were. We live happy, fulfilled lives. Neither of us feel like we’re emotionally damaged from our experiences.

Outside of DCUM-land, I suspect there are tons of people who feel the way we do.

And no, we don’t condone spanking as appropriate punishment.

[Anonymous]

I was "spanked" as a child and also treated horribly. To parent, I simply do the opposite of what my parents did and I'm a pretty good parent but do yell. I can't be perfect. I also tell them how poor I was. They don't like that. For example, just yesterday my 8 yr old ask the best thing my mom ever did for me....I drew a blank. She gave me 1 vacation my entire childhood and one necklace and that's it. I had already told my kid about that so she was unimpressed and asked for other examples. It broke my heart to say there were no other examples and to see how sad she got. Sucks. But at least I'm an excellent parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Enslavement has also been around through the beginning of time and only in modern times has it been unlawful.

Banning that was a mistake, too, tbh.

What the hell?!?!

Anyone else have anything to say about this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I got spanked as a child, and honest to goodness do not resent my mother for it. DH was also spanked growing up and he’s very close to his mom. Neither of us are violent, Andre people, and never were. We live happy, fulfilled lives. Neither of us feel like we’re emotionally damaged from our experiences.

Outside of DCUM-land, I suspect there are tons of people who feel the way we do.

And no, we don’t condone spanking as appropriate punishment.

Then you are blind to the experience of so many others who keep explaining it to you. Violence creates violence and physical punishment is not necessary in order to raise healthy and responsible human beings. Those are facts. Your anecdotes are missing the point completely.