Just don't really care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the thing is, you have limited options.

1) Leave her. The marriage doesn't feel like a marriage to you anymore, and that's not what you signed up for. Fine. So leave.

2) Have an affair. Will solve your sex problem but loses you the moral high ground, even if some people think it's justified based on the "lack of sex" (note: once a month meh sex isn't a lack of sex, but whatever, it's your d*ck).

3) Accept reality, make peace, and carry on with your life, simmering in resentment.

You don't like those options. Your current apathy will absolutely ferment into resentment and then contempt. Your wife will know. She won't be your friend anymore. Your kids will know. You will feel like crap because you will know you're setting a lousy example for them.

So then what?

4) Talk to your wife, honestly. Either do it on your own, or go to therapy and do it there. The crying and talking about how she's not good enough - that's legit. It's true. She probably doesn't feel great about doing things that make you feel sad. But it's also a dodge if it's being used to shut down a frank conversation about a problem. Do not let it shut the conversation down. Be clear about what you need. Be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for her. Ask her to be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for you. Then...

5) Follow up. Try whatever plan for a month or two. Then talk about it again. I get the feeling from your posts that you are using "just don't really care" as a dodge to avoid actually doing anything to solve this problem. You think you've done things, but apparently, they are not the right things. If you really and truly think that you've done everything you can to resolve it and nothing has changed, then I will refer you to options 1-3, because they are all that is left.

Declare Open Marriage. It's not an affair, it's a lifestyle choice. No loss of moral high ground at all.

PP here. Look, I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation to an extent, but that is NOT the way that an open marriage works. An open marriage is something that both spouses agree on. If he says "I Declare Open Marriage!" and she doesn't agree, then he's just cheating and trying to justify it. If he asks for an open marriage and she agrees, then the next step is to talk about the rules of that arrangement. If OP thinks that's something his wife will agree to, I'm happy to talk more about what some respectful rules for an open marriage might be as I have one good friend with an open marriage and learned a lot about it, but without consent from both spouses for that arrangement, it's just cheating. Saying otherwise makes you look like an asshole.

OP's wife did not come talk to him and ask him to agree to a sexless marriage. He is being an honorable man by giving her the choice between Open Marriage, or she can always divorce. It is not cheating, she is fully aware that their marriage is Open. She set the precedent for unilateral decisions about sex, he is only following the "new rules" that she herself established. He is no more an asshole than she is (for "declaring" sexless marriage without his prior agreement).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the thing is, you have limited options.

1) Leave her. The marriage doesn't feel like a marriage to you anymore, and that's not what you signed up for. Fine. So leave.

2) Have an affair. Will solve your sex problem but loses you the moral high ground, even if some people think it's justified based on the "lack of sex" (note: once a month meh sex isn't a lack of sex, but whatever, it's your d*ck).

3) Accept reality, make peace, and carry on with your life, simmering in resentment.

You don't like those options. Your current apathy will absolutely ferment into resentment and then contempt. Your wife will know. She won't be your friend anymore. Your kids will know. You will feel like crap because you will know you're setting a lousy example for them.

So then what?

4) Talk to your wife, honestly. Either do it on your own, or go to therapy and do it there. The crying and talking about how she's not good enough - that's legit. It's true. She probably doesn't feel great about doing things that make you feel sad. But it's also a dodge if it's being used to shut down a frank conversation about a problem. Do not let it shut the conversation down. Be clear about what you need. Be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for her. Ask her to be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for you. Then...

5) Follow up. Try whatever plan for a month or two. Then talk about it again. I get the feeling from your posts that you are using "just don't really care" as a dodge to avoid actually doing anything to solve this problem. You think you've done things, but apparently, they are not the right things. If you really and truly think that you've done everything you can to resolve it and nothing has changed, then I will refer you to options 1-3, because they are all that is left.

Declare Open Marriage. It's not an affair, it's a lifestyle choice. No loss of moral high ground at all.

PP here. Look, I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation to an extent, but that is NOT the way that an open marriage works. An open marriage is something that both spouses agree on. If he says "I Declare Open Marriage!" and she doesn't agree, then he's just cheating and trying to justify it. If he asks for an open marriage and she agrees, then the next step is to talk about the rules of that arrangement. If OP thinks that's something his wife will agree to, I'm happy to talk more about what some respectful rules for an open marriage might be as I have one good friend with an open marriage and learned a lot about it, but without consent from both spouses for that arrangement, it's just cheating. Saying otherwise makes you look like an asshole.

OP's wife did not come talk to him and ask him to agree to a sexless marriage. He is being an honorable man by giving her the choice between Open Marriage, or she can always divorce. It is not cheating, she is fully aware that their marriage is Open. She set the precedent for unilateral decisions about sex, he is only following the "new rules" that she herself established. He is no more an asshole than she is (for "declaring" sexless marriage without his prior agreement).

Nope. A person has a reasonable expectation that their spouse isn't sleeping with other people, regardless of how much sex they are or are not having with the person they married. When one spouse has sex with someone they're not married to without the explicit permission of the person they're married to, it's called cheating. It doesn't matter if you provided advance notice that you were gonna cheat or not. It's still cheating.

Anyway, this isn't a sexless marriage. By OP's own definition, they have crappy sex once a month and he doesn't enjoy it either. You don't get to suddenly say it's okay for you to cheat because your spouse isn't having exactly the kind of sex you want as often as you want to have it. I'm sure my husband would love to have anal more often than we do. My unwillingness to do that every time doesn't make it okay for him to seek it somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the thing is, you have limited options.

1) Leave her. The marriage doesn't feel like a marriage to you anymore, and that's not what you signed up for. Fine. So leave.

2) Have an affair. Will solve your sex problem but loses you the moral high ground, even if some people think it's justified based on the "lack of sex" (note: once a month meh sex isn't a lack of sex, but whatever, it's your d*ck).

3) Accept reality, make peace, and carry on with your life, simmering in resentment.

You don't like those options. Your current apathy will absolutely ferment into resentment and then contempt. Your wife will know. She won't be your friend anymore. Your kids will know. You will feel like crap because you will know you're setting a lousy example for them.

So then what?

4) Talk to your wife, honestly. Either do it on your own, or go to therapy and do it there. The crying and talking about how she's not good enough - that's legit. It's true. She probably doesn't feel great about doing things that make you feel sad. But it's also a dodge if it's being used to shut down a frank conversation about a problem. Do not let it shut the conversation down. Be clear about what you need. Be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for her. Ask her to be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for you. Then...

5) Follow up. Try whatever plan for a month or two. Then talk about it again. I get the feeling from your posts that you are using "just don't really care" as a dodge to avoid actually doing anything to solve this problem. You think you've done things, but apparently, they are not the right things. If you really and truly think that you've done everything you can to resolve it and nothing has changed, then I will refer you to options 1-3, because they are all that is left.

Declare Open Marriage. It's not an affair, it's a lifestyle choice. No loss of moral high ground at all.

PP here. Look, I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation to an extent, but that is NOT the way that an open marriage works. An open marriage is something that both spouses agree on. If he says "I Declare Open Marriage!" and she doesn't agree, then he's just cheating and trying to justify it. If he asks for an open marriage and she agrees, then the next step is to talk about the rules of that arrangement. If OP thinks that's something his wife will agree to, I'm happy to talk more about what some respectful rules for an open marriage might be as I have one good friend with an open marriage and learned a lot about it, but without consent from both spouses for that arrangement, it's just cheating. Saying otherwise makes you look like an asshole.

OP's wife did not come talk to him and ask him to agree to a sexless marriage. He is being an honorable man by giving her the choice between Open Marriage, or she can always divorce. It is not cheating, she is fully aware that their marriage is Open. She set the precedent for unilateral decisions about sex, he is only following the "new rules" that she herself established. He is no more an asshole than she is (for "declaring" sexless marriage without his prior agreement).

Nope. A person has a reasonable expectation that their spouse isn't sleeping with other people, regardless of how much sex they are or are not having with the person they married. When one spouse has sex with someone they're not married to without the explicit permission of the person they're married to, it's called cheating. It doesn't matter if you provided advance notice that you were gonna cheat or not. It's still cheating.

Anyway, this isn't a sexless marriage. By OP's own definition, they have crappy sex once a month and he doesn't enjoy it either. You don't get to suddenly say it's okay for you to cheat because your spouse isn't having exactly the kind of sex you want as often as you want to have it. I'm sure my husband would love to have anal more often than we do. My unwillingness to do that every time doesn't make it okay for him to seek it somewhere else.

No! It is NOT cheating if I inform my spouse that I will be going elsewhere for sex that he/she does not want. That is called an Open Marriage and this declaration is completely justified (and should be expected) if a spouse unilaterally decides to stop having sex. There is literally no difference in a spouse making either of choices. If it's "suddenly OK" to decide not to have sex, it is equally OK to decide to go elsewhere. The spouse on the receiving end of such a decision is free to decide if he/she wants to stay married. Nobody can force you to stay in an Open (or a sexless) marriage against your will.

As to your husband's desire for more anal: that is a different matter. Start a thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the thing is, you have limited options.

1) Leave her. The marriage doesn't feel like a marriage to you anymore, and that's not what you signed up for. Fine. So leave.

2) Have an affair. Will solve your sex problem but loses you the moral high ground, even if some people think it's justified based on the "lack of sex" (note: once a month meh sex isn't a lack of sex, but whatever, it's your d*ck).

3) Accept reality, make peace, and carry on with your life, simmering in resentment.

You don't like those options. Your current apathy will absolutely ferment into resentment and then contempt. Your wife will know. She won't be your friend anymore. Your kids will know. You will feel like crap because you will know you're setting a lousy example for them.

So then what?

4) Talk to your wife, honestly. Either do it on your own, or go to therapy and do it there. The crying and talking about how she's not good enough - that's legit. It's true. She probably doesn't feel great about doing things that make you feel sad. But it's also a dodge if it's being used to shut down a frank conversation about a problem. Do not let it shut the conversation down. Be clear about what you need. Be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for her. Ask her to be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for you. Then...

5) Follow up. Try whatever plan for a month or two. Then talk about it again. I get the feeling from your posts that you are using "just don't really care" as a dodge to avoid actually doing anything to solve this problem. You think you've done things, but apparently, they are not the right things. If you really and truly think that you've done everything you can to resolve it and nothing has changed, then I will refer you to options 1-3, because they are all that is left.

Declare Open Marriage. It's not an affair, it's a lifestyle choice. No loss of moral high ground at all.

PP here. Look, I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation to an extent, but that is NOT the way that an open marriage works. An open marriage is something that both spouses agree on. If he says "I Declare Open Marriage!" and she doesn't agree, then he's just cheating and trying to justify it. If he asks for an open marriage and she agrees, then the next step is to talk about the rules of that arrangement. If OP thinks that's something his wife will agree to, I'm happy to talk more about what some respectful rules for an open marriage might be as I have one good friend with an open marriage and learned a lot about it, but without consent from both spouses for that arrangement, it's just cheating. Saying otherwise makes you look like an asshole.

OP's wife did not come talk to him and ask him to agree to a sexless marriage. He is being an honorable man by giving her the choice between Open Marriage, or she can always divorce. It is not cheating, she is fully aware that their marriage is Open. She set the precedent for unilateral decisions about sex, he is only following the "new rules" that she herself established. He is no more an asshole than she is (for "declaring" sexless marriage without his prior agreement).

Nope. A person has a reasonable expectation that their spouse isn't sleeping with other people, regardless of how much sex they are or are not having with the person they married. When one spouse has sex with someone they're not married to without the explicit permission of the person they're married to, it's called cheating. It doesn't matter if you provided advance notice that you were gonna cheat or not. It's still cheating.

Anyway, this isn't a sexless marriage. By OP's own definition, they have crappy sex once a month and he doesn't enjoy it either. You don't get to suddenly say it's okay for you to cheat because your spouse isn't having exactly the kind of sex you want as often as you want to have it. I'm sure my husband would love to have anal more often than we do. My unwillingness to do that every time doesn't make it okay for him to seek it somewhere else.

No! It is NOT cheating if I inform my spouse that I will be going elsewhere for sex that he/she does not want. That is called an Open Marriage and this declaration is completely justified (and should be expected) if a spouse unilaterally decides to stop having sex. There is literally no difference in a spouse making either of choices. If it's "suddenly OK" to decide not to have sex, it is equally OK to decide to go elsewhere. The spouse on the receiving end of such a decision is free to decide if he/she wants to stay married. Nobody can force you to stay in an Open (or a sexless) marriage against your will.

As to your husband's desire for more anal: that is a different matter. Start a thread.

Total bologna. Get divorced and date if she doesn't want a open marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the thing is, you have limited options.

1) Leave her. The marriage doesn't feel like a marriage to you anymore, and that's not what you signed up for. Fine. So leave.

2) Have an affair. Will solve your sex problem but loses you the moral high ground, even if some people think it's justified based on the "lack of sex" (note: once a month meh sex isn't a lack of sex, but whatever, it's your d*ck).

3) Accept reality, make peace, and carry on with your life, simmering in resentment.

You don't like those options. Your current apathy will absolutely ferment into resentment and then contempt. Your wife will know. She won't be your friend anymore. Your kids will know. You will feel like crap because you will know you're setting a lousy example for them.

So then what?

4) Talk to your wife, honestly. Either do it on your own, or go to therapy and do it there. The crying and talking about how she's not good enough - that's legit. It's true. She probably doesn't feel great about doing things that make you feel sad. But it's also a dodge if it's being used to shut down a frank conversation about a problem. Do not let it shut the conversation down. Be clear about what you need. Be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for her. Ask her to be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for you. Then...

5) Follow up. Try whatever plan for a month or two. Then talk about it again. I get the feeling from your posts that you are using "just don't really care" as a dodge to avoid actually doing anything to solve this problem. You think you've done things, but apparently, they are not the right things. If you really and truly think that you've done everything you can to resolve it and nothing has changed, then I will refer you to options 1-3, because they are all that is left.

Declare Open Marriage. It's not an affair, it's a lifestyle choice. No loss of moral high ground at all.

PP here. Look, I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation to an extent, but that is NOT the way that an open marriage works. An open marriage is something that both spouses agree on. If he says "I Declare Open Marriage!" and she doesn't agree, then he's just cheating and trying to justify it. If he asks for an open marriage and she agrees, then the next step is to talk about the rules of that arrangement. If OP thinks that's something his wife will agree to, I'm happy to talk more about what some respectful rules for an open marriage might be as I have one good friend with an open marriage and learned a lot about it, but without consent from both spouses for that arrangement, it's just cheating. Saying otherwise makes you look like an asshole.

OP's wife did not come talk to him and ask him to agree to a sexless marriage. He is being an honorable man by giving her the choice between Open Marriage, or she can always divorce. It is not cheating, she is fully aware that their marriage is Open. She set the precedent for unilateral decisions about sex, he is only following the "new rules" that she herself established. He is no more an asshole than she is (for "declaring" sexless marriage without his prior agreement).

Nope. A person has a reasonable expectation that their spouse isn't sleeping with other people, regardless of how much sex they are or are not having with the person they married. When one spouse has sex with someone they're not married to without the explicit permission of the person they're married to, it's called cheating. It doesn't matter if you provided advance notice that you were gonna cheat or not. It's still cheating.

Anyway, this isn't a sexless marriage. By OP's own definition, they have crappy sex once a month and he doesn't enjoy it either. You don't get to suddenly say it's okay for you to cheat because your spouse isn't having exactly the kind of sex you want as often as you want to have it. I'm sure my husband would love to have anal more often than we do. My unwillingness to do that every time doesn't make it okay for him to seek it somewhere else.

No! It is NOT cheating if I inform my spouse that I will be going elsewhere for sex that he/she does not want. That is called an Open Marriage and this declaration is completely justified (and should be expected) if a spouse unilaterally decides to stop having sex. There is literally no difference in a spouse making either of choices. If it's "suddenly OK" to decide not to have sex, it is equally OK to decide to go elsewhere. The spouse on the receiving end of such a decision is free to decide if he/she wants to stay married. Nobody can force you to stay in an Open (or a sexless) marriage against your will.

As to your husband's desire for more anal: that is a different matter. Start a thread.

Nope. Still cheating to have sex with someone other than the person you're married to without your spouse's consent. You can thrash about talking about how there's no difference all you want. Doesn't make you correct. No one can force you to stay in the marriage if you're not getting what you need, you're right about that. But if the OP tells his wife that the marriage is open and she says no and he goes out and sleeps with someone else anyway, that's grounds for a divorce in most jurisdictions. The other thing, not so much. Fortunately, since most jurisdictions have some kind of no-fault divorce, the OP is at perfect liberty to leave a marriage that isn't working for him! See option 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi,

DH here. Typical DCUM story, married 8 years, three kids, sex dried up. Been like once a month for a few years. I consider myself to be a pretty good husband, good father, do lots around the house, do lots of the kid stuff etc. I have a bit of a dad bod but not hideous (I don't think). We have a good relationship minus the sex.

Done lots of "date nights" gone out of my way to try to make her feel special etc. This isn't about sexless marriage per se, but I find that I am at the point where I just don't really care about her as a wife anymore. I don't dislike her, she is a good mom and does lots to make the household run, but I just don't really care that much for her anymore and find it difficult/annoying to be around her. I don't care to hear about her day and I generally don't want to spend time with her really, I would just rather do my own thing at this point. Mostly I look forward to when she falls asleep so I can watch the shows I want that she doesn't like. The lack of any response to me, or to me working towards having a marital relationship with her has kind of finally just emptied my tank for her.

I don't want a divorce, because I love my family and I really don't want anyone else other than her, but I am finding it hard to have any real engagement with her outside of kid/house stuff. She's not a bitch and we don't fight much , overall its a pleasant home.

Not really sure of the point of this post but has anyone been in this situation before have any advice about how to manage this dynamic. Not really about how to change it/up the sex, but I don't want to totally lose the marriage

Man here. In a similar boat, only 15 years of marriage and 2 kids (two teenagers).

It's funny because I remember the moment I gave up. Just like I remember the moment I decided to propose. They're kind of like bookends in a life phase. But I recognize everything you say: Making the effort, being the equal partner, carrying MORE than half the load of child rearing and holding down the full time job while she continues to stay at home after kids entered school, rarely rising before 10 a.m. because I was always the one getting them out the door. Sex kind of went from trickling off to let's schedule to me feeling insecure. There were medical issues, so I was more than patient. Over time, I, too, just began to feel bad about myself. And I became tired of feeling rejected.

But. I'm not the type to cheat. I know a divorce would be devastating financially. And I don't have the energy. The kids are in 7th and 9th grade. The relationship with the spouse is civil but we sleep in different rooms. I do have a short tolerance for her need to "talk" at me that's grown shorter over time, and I've learned to just ignore her annoyance when I don't drop what I'm doing during my actual workday to "talk" since I've learned that her asking for 2 minutes really means I'm about to be subjected to a 45-minute rant about something.

I don't have an answer. I, too, just try to do my own thing. I have my own hobbies. I engage with the kids. Eventually, I hope the wife and I will be closer again, but I don't really think that will happen. I have decided I'm responsible for my own happiness. So, I try to do more things I enjoy. I'm not hostile to her, but I'm also probably not as available to her anymore. Because she stopped being available to me years ago.

The kids aren't stupid, BTW. They know. They see it. I'm sure it scars them a bit. They also know I'm the default parent. And that pisses my wife off. But, it sort of is what it is. She made her bed and literally lies in it all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the thing is, you have limited options.

1) Leave her. The marriage doesn't feel like a marriage to you anymore, and that's not what you signed up for. Fine. So leave.

2) Have an affair. Will solve your sex problem but loses you the moral high ground, even if some people think it's justified based on the "lack of sex" (note: once a month meh sex isn't a lack of sex, but whatever, it's your d*ck).

3) Accept reality, make peace, and carry on with your life, simmering in resentment.

You don't like those options. Your current apathy will absolutely ferment into resentment and then contempt. Your wife will know. She won't be your friend anymore. Your kids will know. You will feel like crap because you will know you're setting a lousy example for them.

So then what?

4) Talk to your wife, honestly. Either do it on your own, or go to therapy and do it there. The crying and talking about how she's not good enough - that's legit. It's true. She probably doesn't feel great about doing things that make you feel sad. But it's also a dodge if it's being used to shut down a frank conversation about a problem. Do not let it shut the conversation down. Be clear about what you need. Be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for her. Ask her to be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for you. Then...

5) Follow up. Try whatever plan for a month or two. Then talk about it again. I get the feeling from your posts that you are using "just don't really care" as a dodge to avoid actually doing anything to solve this problem. You think you've done things, but apparently, they are not the right things. If you really and truly think that you've done everything you can to resolve it and nothing has changed, then I will refer you to options 1-3, because they are all that is left.

Declare Open Marriage. It's not an affair, it's a lifestyle choice. No loss of moral high ground at all.

PP here. Look, I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation to an extent, but that is NOT the way that an open marriage works. An open marriage is something that both spouses agree on. If he says "I Declare Open Marriage!" and she doesn't agree, then he's just cheating and trying to justify it. If he asks for an open marriage and she agrees, then the next step is to talk about the rules of that arrangement. If OP thinks that's something his wife will agree to, I'm happy to talk more about what some respectful rules for an open marriage might be as I have one good friend with an open marriage and learned a lot about it, but without consent from both spouses for that arrangement, it's just cheating. Saying otherwise makes you look like an asshole.

OP's wife did not come talk to him and ask him to agree to a sexless marriage. He is being an honorable man by giving her the choice between Open Marriage, or she can always divorce. It is not cheating, she is fully aware that their marriage is Open. She set the precedent for unilateral decisions about sex, he is only following the "new rules" that she herself established. He is no more an asshole than she is (for "declaring" sexless marriage without his prior agreement).

Nope. A person has a reasonable expectation that their spouse isn't sleeping with other people, regardless of how much sex they are or are not having with the person they married. When one spouse has sex with someone they're not married to without the explicit permission of the person they're married to, it's called cheating. It doesn't matter if you provided advance notice that you were gonna cheat or not. It's still cheating.

Anyway, this isn't a sexless marriage. By OP's own definition, they have crappy sex once a month and he doesn't enjoy it either. You don't get to suddenly say it's okay for you to cheat because your spouse isn't having exactly the kind of sex you want as often as you want to have it. I'm sure my husband would love to have anal more often than we do. My unwillingness to do that every time doesn't make it okay for him to seek it somewhere else.

No! It is NOT cheating if I inform my spouse that I will be going elsewhere for sex that he/she does not want. That is called an Open Marriage and this declaration is completely justified (and should be expected) if a spouse unilaterally decides to stop having sex. There is literally no difference in a spouse making either of choices. If it's "suddenly OK" to decide not to have sex, it is equally OK to decide to go elsewhere. The spouse on the receiving end of such a decision is free to decide if he/she wants to stay married. Nobody can force you to stay in an Open (or a sexless) marriage against your will.

As to your husband's desire for more anal: that is a different matter. Start a thread.

Yep, if he said he no longer wanted to have sex with her, so he wanted an open marriage, that would be one thing and I could see the argument for that being cheating-akin to the anal statement. He is saying he wants to have a sex life with her and she is saying no. She is the one creating the open marriage, not him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the thing is, you have limited options.

1) Leave her. The marriage doesn't feel like a marriage to you anymore, and that's not what you signed up for. Fine. So leave.

2) Have an affair. Will solve your sex problem but loses you the moral high ground, even if some people think it's justified based on the "lack of sex" (note: once a month meh sex isn't a lack of sex, but whatever, it's your d*ck).

3) Accept reality, make peace, and carry on with your life, simmering in resentment.

You don't like those options. Your current apathy will absolutely ferment into resentment and then contempt. Your wife will know. She won't be your friend anymore. Your kids will know. You will feel like crap because you will know you're setting a lousy example for them.

So then what?

4) Talk to your wife, honestly. Either do it on your own, or go to therapy and do it there. The crying and talking about how she's not good enough - that's legit. It's true. She probably doesn't feel great about doing things that make you feel sad. But it's also a dodge if it's being used to shut down a frank conversation about a problem. Do not let it shut the conversation down. Be clear about what you need. Be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for her. Ask her to be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for you. Then...

5) Follow up. Try whatever plan for a month or two. Then talk about it again. I get the feeling from your posts that you are using "just don't really care" as a dodge to avoid actually doing anything to solve this problem. You think you've done things, but apparently, they are not the right things. If you really and truly think that you've done everything you can to resolve it and nothing has changed, then I will refer you to options 1-3, because they are all that is left.

Declare Open Marriage. It's not an affair, it's a lifestyle choice. No loss of moral high ground at all.

PP here. Look, I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation to an extent, but that is NOT the way that an open marriage works. An open marriage is something that both spouses agree on. If he says "I Declare Open Marriage!" and she doesn't agree, then he's just cheating and trying to justify it. If he asks for an open marriage and she agrees, then the next step is to talk about the rules of that arrangement. If OP thinks that's something his wife will agree to, I'm happy to talk more about what some respectful rules for an open marriage might be as I have one good friend with an open marriage and learned a lot about it, but without consent from both spouses for that arrangement, it's just cheating. Saying otherwise makes you look like an asshole.

OP's wife did not come talk to him and ask him to agree to a sexless marriage. He is being an honorable man by giving her the choice between Open Marriage, or she can always divorce. It is not cheating, she is fully aware that their marriage is Open. She set the precedent for unilateral decisions about sex, he is only following the "new rules" that she herself established. He is no more an asshole than she is (for "declaring" sexless marriage without his prior agreement).

Nope. A person has a reasonable expectation that their spouse isn't sleeping with other people, regardless of how much sex they are or are not having with the person they married. When one spouse has sex with someone they're not married to without the explicit permission of the person they're married to, it's called cheating. It doesn't matter if you provided advance notice that you were gonna cheat or not. It's still cheating.

Anyway, this isn't a sexless marriage. By OP's own definition, they have crappy sex once a month and he doesn't enjoy it either. You don't get to suddenly say it's okay for you to cheat because your spouse isn't having exactly the kind of sex you want as often as you want to have it. I'm sure my husband would love to have anal more often than we do. My unwillingness to do that every time doesn't make it okay for him to seek it somewhere else.

No! It is NOT cheating if I inform my spouse that I will be going elsewhere for sex that he/she does not want. That is called an Open Marriage and this declaration is completely justified (and should be expected) if a spouse unilaterally decides to stop having sex. There is literally no difference in a spouse making either of choices. If it's "suddenly OK" to decide not to have sex, it is equally OK to decide to go elsewhere. The spouse on the receiving end of such a decision is free to decide if he/she wants to stay married. Nobody can force you to stay in an Open (or a sexless) marriage against your will.

As to your husband's desire for more anal: that is a different matter. Start a thread.

Nope. Still cheating to have sex with someone other than the person you're married to without your spouse's consent. You can thrash about talking about how there's no difference all you want. Doesn't make you correct. No one can force you to stay in the marriage if you're not getting what you need, you're right about that. But if the OP tells his wife that the marriage is open and she says no and he goes out and sleeps with someone else anyway, that's grounds for a divorce in most jurisdictions. The other thing, not so much. Fortunately, since most jurisdictions have some kind of no-fault divorce, the OP is at perfect liberty to leave a marriage that isn't working for him! See option 1.

Not cheating if you have informed your spouse of your intention to Open the marriage as justified by the spouse's unilateral decision to stop having sex. What are you talking about "grounds for divorce" nobody cares about that anymore. If you want a divorce, just go get a divorce. You don't need any grounds. Heck if you want to get all technical, some jurisdictions have Abandonment of Affection as a "legal grounds" for divorce. That means declaring your marriage sexless is the exact same thing as declaring it Open.

Apparently, some people think their "marriage is fine except for the lack of sex". OP's wife is like that. Maybe OP prefers to stay married and get his normal sexual needs met elsewhere. He can choose to do that, if she's not happy, she can easily file for divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the thing is, you have limited options.

1) Leave her. The marriage doesn't feel like a marriage to you anymore, and that's not what you signed up for. Fine. So leave.

2) Have an affair. Will solve your sex problem but loses you the moral high ground, even if some people think it's justified based on the "lack of sex" (note: once a month meh sex isn't a lack of sex, but whatever, it's your d*ck).

3) Accept reality, make peace, and carry on with your life, simmering in resentment.

You don't like those options. Your current apathy will absolutely ferment into resentment and then contempt. Your wife will know. She won't be your friend anymore. Your kids will know. You will feel like crap because you will know you're setting a lousy example for them.

So then what?

4) Talk to your wife, honestly. Either do it on your own, or go to therapy and do it there. The crying and talking about how she's not good enough - that's legit. It's true. She probably doesn't feel great about doing things that make you feel sad. But it's also a dodge if it's being used to shut down a frank conversation about a problem. Do not let it shut the conversation down. Be clear about what you need. Be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for her. Ask her to be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for you. Then...

5) Follow up. Try whatever plan for a month or two. Then talk about it again. I get the feeling from your posts that you are using "just don't really care" as a dodge to avoid actually doing anything to solve this problem. You think you've done things, but apparently, they are not the right things. If you really and truly think that you've done everything you can to resolve it and nothing has changed, then I will refer you to options 1-3, because they are all that is left.

Declare Open Marriage. It's not an affair, it's a lifestyle choice. No loss of moral high ground at all.

PP here. Look, I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation to an extent, but that is NOT the way that an open marriage works. An open marriage is something that both spouses agree on. If he says "I Declare Open Marriage!" and she doesn't agree, then he's just cheating and trying to justify it. If he asks for an open marriage and she agrees, then the next step is to talk about the rules of that arrangement. If OP thinks that's something his wife will agree to, I'm happy to talk more about what some respectful rules for an open marriage might be as I have one good friend with an open marriage and learned a lot about it, but without consent from both spouses for that arrangement, it's just cheating. Saying otherwise makes you look like an asshole.

OP's wife did not come talk to him and ask him to agree to a sexless marriage. He is being an honorable man by giving her the choice between Open Marriage, or she can always divorce. It is not cheating, she is fully aware that their marriage is Open. She set the precedent for unilateral decisions about sex, he is only following the "new rules" that she herself established. He is no more an asshole than she is (for "declaring" sexless marriage without his prior agreement).

Nope. A person has a reasonable expectation that their spouse isn't sleeping with other people, regardless of how much sex they are or are not having with the person they married. When one spouse has sex with someone they're not married to without the explicit permission of the person they're married to, it's called cheating. It doesn't matter if you provided advance notice that you were gonna cheat or not. It's still cheating.

Anyway, this isn't a sexless marriage. By OP's own definition, they have crappy sex once a month and he doesn't enjoy it either. You don't get to suddenly say it's okay for you to cheat because your spouse isn't having exactly the kind of sex you want as often as you want to have it. I'm sure my husband would love to have anal more often than we do. My unwillingness to do that every time doesn't make it okay for him to seek it somewhere else.

No! It is NOT cheating if I inform my spouse that I will be going elsewhere for sex that he/she does not want. That is called an Open Marriage and this declaration is completely justified (and should be expected) if a spouse unilaterally decides to stop having sex. There is literally no difference in a spouse making either of choices. If it's "suddenly OK" to decide not to have sex, it is equally OK to decide to go elsewhere. The spouse on the receiving end of such a decision is free to decide if he/she wants to stay married. Nobody can force you to stay in an Open (or a sexless) marriage against your will.

As to your husband's desire for more anal: that is a different matter. Start a thread.

Nope. Still cheating to have sex with someone other than the person you're married to without your spouse's consent. You can thrash about talking about how there's no difference all you want. Doesn't make you correct. No one can force you to stay in the marriage if you're not getting what you need, you're right about that. But if the OP tells his wife that the marriage is open and she says no and he goes out and sleeps with someone else anyway, that's grounds for a divorce in most jurisdictions. The other thing, not so much. Fortunately, since most jurisdictions have some kind of no-fault divorce, the OP is at perfect liberty to leave a marriage that isn't working for him! See option 1.

Not cheating if you have informed your spouse of your intention to Open the marriage as justified by the spouse's unilateral decision to stop having sex. What are you talking about "grounds for divorce" nobody cares about that anymore. If you want a divorce, just go get a divorce. You don't need any grounds. Heck if you want to get all technical, some jurisdictions have Abandonment of Affection as a "legal grounds" for divorce. That means declaring your marriage sexless is the exact same thing as declaring it Open.

Apparently, some people think their "marriage is fine except for the lack of sex". OP's wife is like that. Maybe OP prefers to stay married and get his normal sexual needs met elsewhere. He can choose to do that, if she's not happy, she can easily file for divorce.

You are 100% right that she can file for divorce. She will have cause to do so because the second he has sex with someone other than her without her agreement, he's CHEATING ON HER.

What the hell is wrong with you people? I never said that it was wonderful for the OP's wife to not have sex as often as he wants. I will point out again that according to him, the marriage isn't sexless. It doesn't have as much sex as he wants and he doesn't enjoy the sex that occurs for whatever reason, but the reality is that that is not what a sexless marriage is. Once a month and boring isn't sexless. It's just unsatisfying. I agree that it would be better if these two married adults would communicate with each other and try to meet each other's needs better than they are currently doing, but that doesn't mean that it's justified for the OP to go have an affair (your "open marriage") because he's not happy with what he's getting at home.

By that definition, anyone who is unhappy with their sex life for any reason could justify adultery by saying that they had declared the marriage open. It does not work that way, and I don't understand why you are so invested in claiming that it does.

[Anonymous]

The "declare open marriage" people are tedious. That's not how any of this works. You can call it a logically perfect argument but it's still creepy, weird, and not how people do things in the real world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are 100% right that she can file for divorce. She will have cause to do so because the second he has sex with someone other than her without her agreement, he's CHEATING ON HER.

What the hell is wrong with you people? I never said that it was wonderful for the OP's wife to not have sex as often as he wants. I will point out again that according to him, the marriage isn't sexless. It doesn't have as much sex as he wants and he doesn't enjoy the sex that occurs for whatever reason, but the reality is that that is not what a sexless marriage is. Once a month and boring isn't sexless. It's just unsatisfying. I agree that it would be better if these two married adults would communicate with each other and try to meet each other's needs better than they are currently doing, but that doesn't mean that it's justified for the OP to go have an affair (your "open marriage") because he's not happy with what he's getting at home.

By that definition, anyone who is unhappy with their sex life for any reason could justify adultery by saying that they had declared the marriage open. It does not work that way, and I don't understand why you are so invested in claiming that it does.

The problem seems to be you don't understand the full gravity of 1 partner unilaterally declaring a marriage sexless. That is EXACTLY the same thing as the other partner unilaterally deciding to seek sex elsewhere. There is absolutely zero difference, and it is no less justified for him to declare the marriage Open as for her to declare it Sexless. I agree, neither is being a good partner, and I have no idea why she wants to stay married to a man she doesn't want sex with. I don't understand why you are so invested in allowing only 1 spouse to make unilateral decisions about sex in the marriage. That is not a defensible position at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "declare open marriage" people are tedious. That's not how any of this works. You can call it a logically perfect argument but it's still creepy, weird, and not how people do things in the real world.

The sexless marriage (I want to stay married but not sleep with my spouse) people are far more tedious and creepy. Especially when they then expect their normal libido partner to not go have sex elsewhere. That's not how it works in the real world. Declaring open marriage is the honorable thing to do. Cheating, well that would be dishonest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are 100% right that she can file for divorce. She will have cause to do so because the second he has sex with someone other than her without her agreement, he's CHEATING ON HER.

What the hell is wrong with you people? I never said that it was wonderful for the OP's wife to not have sex as often as he wants. I will point out again that according to him, the marriage isn't sexless. It doesn't have as much sex as he wants and he doesn't enjoy the sex that occurs for whatever reason, but the reality is that that is not what a sexless marriage is. Once a month and boring isn't sexless. It's just unsatisfying. I agree that it would be better if these two married adults would communicate with each other and try to meet each other's needs better than they are currently doing, but that doesn't mean that it's justified for the OP to go have an affair (your "open marriage") because he's not happy with what he's getting at home.

By that definition, anyone who is unhappy with their sex life for any reason could justify adultery by saying that they had declared the marriage open. It does not work that way, and I don't understand why you are so invested in claiming that it does.

The problem seems to be you don't understand the full gravity of 1 partner unilaterally declaring a marriage sexless. That is EXACTLY the same thing as the other partner unilaterally deciding to seek sex elsewhere. There is absolutely zero difference, and it is no less justified for him to declare the marriage Open as for her to declare it Sexless. I agree, neither is being a good partner, and I have no idea why she wants to stay married to a man she doesn't want sex with. I don't understand why you are so invested in allowing only 1 spouse to make unilateral decisions about sex in the marriage. That is not a defensible position at all.

NP but you keep calling this marriage sexless when it is not, by OP's own description. Also I've been involved in an open marriage (as an outside partner) and you have no idea what you're talking about with your "I Declare This Marriage Open" nonsense. That's some fever dream you had one time, it's nothing to do with the reality of actual relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are 100% right that she can file for divorce. She will have cause to do so because the second he has sex with someone other than her without her agreement, he's CHEATING ON HER.

What the hell is wrong with you people? I never said that it was wonderful for the OP's wife to not have sex as often as he wants. I will point out again that according to him, the marriage isn't sexless. It doesn't have as much sex as he wants and he doesn't enjoy the sex that occurs for whatever reason, but the reality is that that is not what a sexless marriage is. Once a month and boring isn't sexless. It's just unsatisfying. I agree that it would be better if these two married adults would communicate with each other and try to meet each other's needs better than they are currently doing, but that doesn't mean that it's justified for the OP to go have an affair (your "open marriage") because he's not happy with what he's getting at home.

By that definition, anyone who is unhappy with their sex life for any reason could justify adultery by saying that they had declared the marriage open. It does not work that way, and I don't understand why you are so invested in claiming that it does.

The problem seems to be you don't understand the full gravity of 1 partner unilaterally declaring a marriage sexless. That is EXACTLY the same thing as the other partner unilaterally deciding to seek sex elsewhere. There is absolutely zero difference, and it is no less justified for him to declare the marriage Open as for her to declare it Sexless. I agree, neither is being a good partner, and I have no idea why she wants to stay married to a man she doesn't want sex with. I don't understand why you are so invested in allowing only 1 spouse to make unilateral decisions about sex in the marriage. That is not a defensible position at all.

There is PLENTY of difference between not having as much sex as your partner wants to have and having sex with someone other than your partner. If this marriage was actually sexless, I might be inclined to agree with you, but that's not what's happening here. Your entire premise is based on this marriage being sexless, which it's not. This man and his wife have sex once a month. The sex is, according to this man, not enjoyable for him and doesn't occur as often as he'd like. He wants better sex with his wife that happens more regularly than once a month. Those are understandable wants, and if I was the OP, I would want those things as well. They do not, however, equal a sexless marriage, just a marriage in which the OP is sexually frustrated. No matter how sexually frustrated he is, declaring that he intends to have sex with people other than her whether she agrees or not IS adultery, no matter how understandable you or I may find his desire to do so. Her unwillingness to have the kind of sex that he wants at the frequency that he wants, while you and I may find that to be a crappy way to treat the OP, is not the same as having an affair. In an affair, he is affirmatively putting his penis into another woman's body. During that act, he could father a child because as we all know, no birth control method is 100% effective. He would then be legally responsible for that child as well as the children he already has. He could also contract a sexually transmitted disease through this action, which he could then pass to his wife during their monthly bad sex. She would then need medical treatment as a consequence of his affirmative decision to have sex with someone else. None of that is true of what the OP's wife is doing, though I'm sure you'll be happy to list some very real consequences that the poor OP suffers as a result of his wife's unwillingness to have sex with him in the manner and frequency he prefers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi,

DH here. Typical DCUM story, married 8 years, three kids, sex dried up. Been like once a month for a few years. I consider myself to be a pretty good husband, good father, do lots around the house, do lots of the kid stuff etc. I have a bit of a dad bod but not hideous (I don't think). We have a good relationship minus the sex.

Done lots of "date nights" gone out of my way to try to make her feel special etc. This isn't about sexless marriage per se, but I find that I am at the point where I just don't really care about her as a wife anymore. I don't dislike her, she is a good mom and does lots to make the household run, but I just don't really care that much for her anymore and find it difficult/annoying to be around her. I don't care to hear about her day and I generally don't want to spend time with her really, I would just rather do my own thing at this point. Mostly I look forward to when she falls asleep so I can watch the shows I want that she doesn't like. The lack of any response to me, or to me working towards having a marital relationship with her has kind of finally just emptied my tank for her.

I don't want a divorce, because I love my family and I really don't want anyone else other than her, but I am finding it hard to have any real engagement with her outside of kid/house stuff. She's not a bitch and we don't fight much , overall its a pleasant home.

Not really sure of the point of this post but has anyone been in this situation before have any advice about how to manage this dynamic. Not really about how to change it/up the sex, but I don't want to totally lose the marriage

Man here. In a similar boat, only 15 years of marriage and 2 kids (two teenagers).

It's funny because I remember the moment I gave up. Just like I remember the moment I decided to propose. They're kind of like bookends in a life phase. But I recognize everything you say: Making the effort, being the equal partner, carrying MORE than half the load of child rearing and holding down the full time job while she continues to stay at home after kids entered school, rarely rising before 10 a.m. because I was always the one getting them out the door. Sex kind of went from trickling off to let's schedule to me feeling insecure. There were medical issues, so I was more than patient. Over time, I, too, just began to feel bad about myself. And I became tired of feeling rejected.

But. I'm not the type to cheat. I know a divorce would be devastating financially. And I don't have the energy. The kids are in 7th and 9th grade. The relationship with the spouse is civil but we sleep in different rooms. I do have a short tolerance for her need to "talk" at me that's grown shorter over time, and I've learned to just ignore her annoyance when I don't drop what I'm doing during my actual workday to "talk" since I've learned that her asking for 2 minutes really means I'm about to be subjected to a 45-minute rant about something.

I don't have an answer. I, too, just try to do my own thing. I have my own hobbies. I engage with the kids. Eventually, I hope the wife and I will be closer again, but I don't really think that will happen. I have decided I'm responsible for my own happiness. So, I try to do more things I enjoy. I'm not hostile to her, but I'm also probably not as available to her anymore. Because she stopped being available to me years ago.

The kids aren't stupid, BTW. They know. They see it. I'm sure it scars them a bit. They also know I'm the default parent. And that pisses my wife off. But, it sort of is what it is. She made her bed and literally lies in it all the time.

So sorry. Is she depressed?