Just don't really care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are 100% right that she can file for divorce. She will have cause to do so because the second he has sex with someone other than her without her agreement, he's CHEATING ON HER.

What the hell is wrong with you people? I never said that it was wonderful for the OP's wife to not have sex as often as he wants. I will point out again that according to him, the marriage isn't sexless. It doesn't have as much sex as he wants and he doesn't enjoy the sex that occurs for whatever reason, but the reality is that that is not what a sexless marriage is. Once a month and boring isn't sexless. It's just unsatisfying. I agree that it would be better if these two married adults would communicate with each other and try to meet each other's needs better than they are currently doing, but that doesn't mean that it's justified for the OP to go have an affair (your "open marriage") because he's not happy with what he's getting at home.

By that definition, anyone who is unhappy with their sex life for any reason could justify adultery by saying that they had declared the marriage open. It does not work that way, and I don't understand why you are so invested in claiming that it does.

The problem seems to be you don't understand the full gravity of 1 partner unilaterally declaring a marriage sexless. That is EXACTLY the same thing as the other partner unilaterally deciding to seek sex elsewhere. There is absolutely zero difference, and it is no less justified for him to declare the marriage Open as for her to declare it Sexless. I agree, neither is being a good partner, and I have no idea why she wants to stay married to a man she doesn't want sex with. I don't understand why you are so invested in allowing only 1 spouse to make unilateral decisions about sex in the marriage. That is not a defensible position at all.

There is PLENTY of difference between not having as much sex as your partner wants to have and having sex with someone other than your partner. If this marriage was actually sexless, I might be inclined to agree with you, but that's not what's happening here. Your entire premise is based on this marriage being sexless, which it's not. This man and his wife have sex once a month. The sex is, according to this man, not enjoyable for him and doesn't occur as often as he'd like. He wants better sex with his wife that happens more regularly than once a month. Those are understandable wants, and if I was the OP, I would want those things as well. They do not, however, equal a sexless marriage, just a marriage in which the OP is sexually frustrated. No matter how sexually frustrated he is, declaring that he intends to have sex with people other than her whether she agrees or not IS adultery, no matter how understandable you or I may find his desire to do so. Her unwillingness to have the kind of sex that he wants at the frequency that he wants, while you and I may find that to be a crappy way to treat the OP, is not the same as having an affair. In an affair, he is affirmatively putting his penis into another woman's body. During that act, he could father a child because as we all know, no birth control method is 100% effective. He would then be legally responsible for that child as well as the children he already has. He could also contract a sexually transmitted disease through this action, which he could then pass to his wife during their monthly bad sex. She would then need medical treatment as a consequence of his affirmative decision to have sex with someone else. None of that is true of what the OP's wife is doing, though I'm sure you'll be happy to list some very real consequences that the poor OP suffers as a result of his wife's unwillingness to have sex with him in the manner and frequency he prefers.

When does a marriage become "sexless"? If there was sex at least one time in the marriage can it never be sexless? If there is the prospect for sex at least one more time before one of them dies? Less than once a year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Alot of bitter angry men on this thread. It's not complicated, guys. Here is the 10 second fix to your sexless marriage: "Dear, we need to talk. While I am happy with you as a wife, I can not go on without a normal, regular sex life. You can decide where we go from here: regular sex; open marriage; an ex-husband."

With an open marriage, men need to be careful what they wish for. Any woman can attract hundreds of potential takers within minutes. If you are a potbellied man without good bank, well...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are 100% right that she can file for divorce. She will have cause to do so because the second he has sex with someone other than her without her agreement, he's CHEATING ON HER.

What the hell is wrong with you people? I never said that it was wonderful for the OP's wife to not have sex as often as he wants. I will point out again that according to him, the marriage isn't sexless. It doesn't have as much sex as he wants and he doesn't enjoy the sex that occurs for whatever reason, but the reality is that that is not what a sexless marriage is. Once a month and boring isn't sexless. It's just unsatisfying. I agree that it would be better if these two married adults would communicate with each other and try to meet each other's needs better than they are currently doing, but that doesn't mean that it's justified for the OP to go have an affair (your "open marriage") because he's not happy with what he's getting at home.

By that definition, anyone who is unhappy with their sex life for any reason could justify adultery by saying that they had declared the marriage open. It does not work that way, and I don't understand why you are so invested in claiming that it does.

The problem seems to be you don't understand the full gravity of 1 partner unilaterally declaring a marriage sexless. That is EXACTLY the same thing as the other partner unilaterally deciding to seek sex elsewhere. There is absolutely zero difference, and it is no less justified for him to declare the marriage Open as for her to declare it Sexless. I agree, neither is being a good partner, and I have no idea why she wants to stay married to a man she doesn't want sex with. I don't understand why you are so invested in allowing only 1 spouse to make unilateral decisions about sex in the marriage. That is not a defensible position at all.

There is PLENTY of difference between not having as much sex as your partner wants to have and having sex with someone other than your partner. If this marriage was actually sexless, I might be inclined to agree with you, but that's not what's happening here. Your entire premise is based on this marriage being sexless, which it's not. This man and his wife have sex once a month. The sex is, according to this man, not enjoyable for him and doesn't occur as often as he'd like. He wants better sex with his wife that happens more regularly than once a month. Those are understandable wants, and if I was the OP, I would want those things as well. They do not, however, equal a sexless marriage, just a marriage in which the OP is sexually frustrated. No matter how sexually frustrated he is, declaring that he intends to have sex with people other than her whether she agrees or not IS adultery, no matter how understandable you or I may find his desire to do so. Her unwillingness to have the kind of sex that he wants at the frequency that he wants, while you and I may find that to be a crappy way to treat the OP, is not the same as having an affair. In an affair, he is affirmatively putting his penis into another woman's body. During that act, he could father a child because as we all know, no birth control method is 100% effective. He would then be legally responsible for that child as well as the children he already has. He could also contract a sexually transmitted disease through this action, which he could then pass to his wife during their monthly bad sex. She would then need medical treatment as a consequence of his affirmative decision to have sex with someone else. None of that is true of what the OP's wife is doing, though I'm sure you'll be happy to list some very real consequences that the poor OP suffers as a result of his wife's unwillingness to have sex with him in the manner and frequency he prefers.

When does a marriage become "sexless"? If there was sex at least one time in the marriage can it never be sexless? If there is the prospect for sex at least one more time before one of them dies? Less than once a year?

That's a very good question and I suspect it varies by individual preference. What would you consider a sexless marriage to be? People have posted here describing years without sex. Those people would laugh at the OP, who by his own admission has sex once a month. One number I heard was that if a year has gone by without sex, the marriage is sexless. My best friend, during her divorce, was told that she had to be apart from her ex for 1 year, including sexually, and that if they had sex even one time, it restarted the clock. So at least some individuals and states recognize one year as a significant number related to sexual contact.

But go ahead and keep being mad at ME because your spouse isn't satisfying YOU sexually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the thing is, you have limited options.

1) Leave her. The marriage doesn't feel like a marriage to you anymore, and that's not what you signed up for. Fine. So leave.

2) Have an affair. Will solve your sex problem but loses you the moral high ground, even if some people think it's justified based on the "lack of sex" (note: once a month meh sex isn't a lack of sex, but whatever, it's your d*ck).

3) Accept reality, make peace, and carry on with your life, simmering in resentment.

You don't like those options. Your current apathy will absolutely ferment into resentment and then contempt. Your wife will know. She won't be your friend anymore. Your kids will know. You will feel like crap because you will know you're setting a lousy example for them.

So then what?

4) Talk to your wife, honestly. Either do it on your own, or go to therapy and do it there. The crying and talking about how she's not good enough - that's legit. It's true. She probably doesn't feel great about doing things that make you feel sad. But it's also a dodge if it's being used to shut down a frank conversation about a problem. Do not let it shut the conversation down. Be clear about what you need. Be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for her. Ask her to be clear about what "putting in an effort" would look like for you. Then...

5) Follow up. Try whatever plan for a month or two. Then talk about it again. I get the feeling from your posts that you are using "just don't really care" as a dodge to avoid actually doing anything to solve this problem. You think you've done things, but apparently, they are not the right things. If you really and truly think that you've done everything you can to resolve it and nothing has changed, then I will refer you to options 1-3, because they are all that is left.

Declare Open Marriage. It's not an affair, it's a lifestyle choice. No loss of moral high ground at all.

PP here. Look, I'm sympathetic to the OP's situation to an extent, but that is NOT the way that an open marriage works. An open marriage is something that both spouses agree on. If he says "I Declare Open Marriage!" and she doesn't agree, then he's just cheating and trying to justify it. If he asks for an open marriage and she agrees, then the next step is to talk about the rules of that arrangement. If OP thinks that's something his wife will agree to, I'm happy to talk more about what some respectful rules for an open marriage might be as I have one good friend with an open marriage and learned a lot about it, but without consent from both spouses for that arrangement, it's just cheating. Saying otherwise makes you look like an asshole.

OP's wife did not come talk to him and ask him to agree to a sexless marriage. He is being an honorable man by giving her the choice between Open Marriage, or she can always divorce. It is not cheating, she is fully aware that their marriage is Open. She set the precedent for unilateral decisions about sex, he is only following the "new rules" that she herself established. He is no more an asshole than she is (for "declaring" sexless marriage without his prior agreement).

Nope. A person has a reasonable expectation that their spouse isn't sleeping with other people, regardless of how much sex they are or are not having with the person they married. When one spouse has sex with someone they're not married to without the explicit permission of the person they're married to, it's called cheating. It doesn't matter if you provided advance notice that you were gonna cheat or not. It's still cheating.

Anyway, this isn't a sexless marriage. By OP's own definition, they have crappy sex once a month and he doesn't enjoy it either. You don't get to suddenly say it's okay for you to cheat because your spouse isn't having exactly the kind of sex you want as often as you want to have it. I'm sure my husband would love to have anal more often than we do. My unwillingness to do that every time doesn't make it okay for him to seek it somewhere else.

No! It is NOT cheating if I inform my spouse that I will be going elsewhere for sex that he/she does not want. That is called an Open Marriage and this declaration is completely justified (and should be expected) if a spouse unilaterally decides to stop having sex. There is literally no difference in a spouse making either of choices. If it's "suddenly OK" to decide not to have sex, it is equally OK to decide to go elsewhere. The spouse on the receiving end of such a decision is free to decide if he/she wants to stay married. Nobody can force you to stay in an Open (or a sexless) marriage against your will.

As to your husband's desire for more anal: that is a different matter. Start a thread.

You can't unilaterally decided to open up a marriage without the other partners input or ground rules and then claim it's not cheating. It's analogous to telling someone you're going to steal their French fry off their plate without letting them say yes or no

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Alot of bitter angry men on this thread. It's not complicated, guys. Here is the 10 second fix to your sexless marriage: "Dear, we need to talk. While I am happy with you as a wife, I can not go on without a normal, regular sex life. You can decide where we go from here: regular sex; open marriage; an ex-husband."

With an open marriage, men need to be careful what they wish for. Any woman can attract hundreds of potential takers within minutes. If you are a potbellied man without good bank, well...

True that most women can find sex much easier than any man. Thing is, they won’t because they don’t have the sex drive to put in even that minimal effort. Whereas the man, despite it being 100 times more effort, is driven to pursue sex at all costs. In the end, he gets more sex because he’s motivated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

That's a very good question and I suspect it varies by individual preference. What would you consider a sexless marriage to be? People have posted here describing years without sex. Those people would laugh at the OP, who by his own admission has sex once a month. One number I heard was that if a year has gone by without sex, the marriage is sexless. My best friend, during her divorce, was told that she had to be apart from her ex for 1 year, including sexually, and that if they had sex even one time, it restarted the clock. So at least some individuals and states recognize one year as a significant number related to sexual contact.

But go ahead and keep being mad at ME because your spouse isn't satisfying YOU sexually.

I've heard it bandied about that the "clinical definition" is less than 10x per year. Which doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Sure, you can argue that there is sex so it's not "sexless." But I think this ignores that when people use the term "sexless," it's a shorthand for "sex is rare enough to cause problems or signify something problematic in most marriages." There can absolutely be couples who are content with sex once a year. And maybe it's unfair to call their marriage "sexless." In most marriages, I think less than 10x per year goes beyond personal preference and reasonable accommodation into territory where one or both spouses would be acting reasonably if they're unhappy with that frequency. (This is not the case, for example, with the spouse who is unhappy with his or her wife because they only do it twice a day. That unhappy spouse is being unreasonable.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You can't unilaterally decided to open up a marriage without the other partners input or ground rules and then claim it's not cheating. It's analogous to telling someone you're going to steal their French fry off their plate without letting them say yes or no

You must have missed the fact she unilaterally decided to not have a normal sex life. What’s fair for her, is fair for him too. She changed the sexual rules first to allow one partner to make selfish unloving decisions without the other partners input.

[Anonymous]

She’s f^cking someone else, just FYI.

[Anonymous]

You say she is a good mom, you love your kids, it’s pleasant at home. You don’t want to leave.

So what is the problem here? Why can’t this be enough for you?

[Anonymous]

Maybe she’s not attracted to you anymore and doesn’t want to force herself to have sex with someone who kind of repulses her.

I don’t know what you mean want. You gain 20-30 lbs. and expect us to not notice? Dad bod is kind of a cute funny phrase but let’s be honest, it’s not attractive. No one wants to f@ck Dad.

Get thee to the gym and lose some weight then see what happens.

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure OP really wants help...but rather affirmation? Just reading through his responses I am thinking that his wife likely has a very different picture of their marriage than how he says- really claims- she feels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When does a marriage become "sexless"? If there was sex at least one time in the marriage can it never be sexless? If there is the prospect for sex at least one more time before one of them dies? Less than once a year?

That's a very good question and I suspect it varies by individual preference. What would you consider a sexless marriage to be? People have posted here describing years without sex. Those people would laugh at the OP, who by his own admission has sex once a month. One number I heard was that if a year has gone by without sex, the marriage is sexless. My best friend, during her divorce, was told that she had to be apart from her ex for 1 year, including sexually, and that if they had sex even one time, it restarted the clock. So at least some individuals and states recognize one year as a significant number related to sexual contact.

But go ahead and keep being mad at ME because your spouse isn't satisfying YOU sexually.

A widely accepted definition is 10 times per year (see wikipedia and many other sources). OP has posted: Op here, terrible sex like once every two months. Initiate and get shut down whenever I do. Last time we did I almost told her to stop because honestly it was less enjoyable than doing it myself but I knew that would hurt her a lot. Therefore, OP is in a sexless marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You can't unilaterally decided to open up a marriage without the other partners input or ground rules and then claim it's not cheating. It's analogous to telling someone you're going to steal their French fry off their plate without letting them say yes or no

You must have missed the fact she unilaterally decided to not have a normal sex life. What’s fair for her, is fair for him too. She changed the sexual rules first to allow one partner to make selfish unloving decisions without the other partners input.

I don't get your point. What is the benefit of declaring "I am going to cheat from now on" (which is identical to declaring an open marriage)? To get the spouse to file because you don't have the guts yourself, so you can tell yourself (and others) that you wanted to preserve the marriage but the spouse didn't?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She’s f^cking someone else, just FYI.

I think that's a huge possibility. If she doesn't then she is getting there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You can't unilaterally decided to open up a marriage without the other partners input or ground rules and then claim it's not cheating. It's analogous to telling someone you're going to steal their French fry off their plate without letting them say yes or no

You must have missed the fact she unilaterally decided to not have a normal sex life. What’s fair for her, is fair for him too. She changed the sexual rules first to allow one partner to make selfish unloving decisions without the other partners input.

I don't get your point. What is the benefit of declaring "I am going to cheat from now on" (which is identical to declaring an open marriage)? To get the spouse to file because you don't have the guts yourself, so you can tell yourself (and others) that you wanted to preserve the marriage but the spouse didn't?

What is the point in staying married to somebody you don't want sex with? Is that just a selfish attempt to force your normal libido spouse into filing for divorce because you don't have the guts yourself?

Basically any and everything you might say about a spouse declaring Open Marriage, I can reverse your words and say the exact same thing about a spouse declaring Sexless marriage. Because these are 100% equivalent, despicable, unloving acts. If anything, the sexless marriage declaration is far WORSE because that comes unprompted. At least the Open Marriage is a justified response to the spouse who struck first with the sexless marriage declaration.