When did you decide it was time for an affair and did it help your marriage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Slight tangent - is there value to forcing an explicit rejection to an initiation? Does that compel the low drive spouse to recognize the problem in a productive way that avoiding the initiation does not?

OP here. I think there is a huge value in explicit rejection, so long as it is met with more frequent acceptance. I think Dan Savage mentions this as the best way to navigate high v. low drive. If you are not in the mood, you can still spare some time to lovingly help your spouse get off, tell them how you can't wait for them to have sex with you later in the week, hold, touch, kiss, etc. Then really do go after it later in the week when you are in the mood. You can also reject on occasion if you have a headache, etc. The idea being that the high drive spouse can't demand full on sex everytime, but the low drive spouse can't insist on their frequency either, i.e. compromise. I don't think anyone has a problem with occasional rejection for legitimate reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So, how do you navigate that narrow passage. I flirt with my wife and get a stony, uninterested response that indicates, "aww crap, not this again." How do you know when pushing ahead will be unwelcome and, therefore, rapey versus when pushing ahead will be a well-received aggressive initiation. No means no, after all.

Anonymous wrote:
OP here. I don't know if my DW had every truly rejected a sexual advance, except when she was sick. I had a couple of episodes where I tried and continued to playfully initiate when she was clearly not in the mood. She relented, but it was pretty obvious she was annoyed to be having sex.

Let me assure you of something: there is a BIG difference between allowing your wife to be your sexual outlet even if she isn't in the mood when the outlet (blow jobs, quickies) comes from a place of love, i.e. she isn't in the mood but she really enjoys bringing her husband pleasure. Conversely, it is soul crushing to push for sex with someone who is clearly wishing you would just get off of her so she can get back to Real Housewives of _____" Surely you see the difference. While there are obviously better ways to initiate than others (playful flirtation vs. sulking demands) to suggest that the problem in high v. low drive marriages is merely that people don't initiate properly nonsense.

For what it's worth, when my DW suggested I just fuck her if I need it so bad, I tried to explain how humiliating that can be. Imagine if she was the high drive spouse, I had no desire: She comes to the living room, dressed sexy with a glass of wine. Flirts and touches me suggestively. I tell her to give me 20 minutes until SportsCenter is over, then go into the bedroom, pull down her pants, push a vibrator on her, seem totally distracted during her orgasm, and get up immediately after and go back to the couch. Would anyone here dare suggest my DW should just be fine that I allowed her to use me as an outlet when she initiated so what does she have to complain about?

Have you and wife discussed frequency? No? Well go do that!! Agree on a mutually acceptable "times per week" for sex.
Have you and wife discussed the best days/times for you to initiate sex (meaning when is she feeling most sexual and receptive)?
Have you and wife discussed the best way(s) for you to initiate?
Have you and wife discussed your preferred ways(s) for her to decline? Hint: rather than her just saying NO, she could suggest a specific time in the near future for you to try again

After you have all these answers, and you are both on the same page in these key areas, things are really quite simple.
You now will know exactly HOW and WHEN and HOW OFTEN to initiate sex, and if (despite all this good planning) she STILL happens to decline, well she will tell you exactly when to re-initiate.
All you need to do now is stay within these parameters. Not only will she never be "surprised" by your initiation, she may even begin to anticipate it (in a good way).

Please don't tell me you are one of these sexless marriage guys who insist that SHE initiate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm always baffled by the "I knew he was unhappy with our sex life, but I wish he'd let me know he was seriously unhappy" posts. If he's gotten to the point he is making you aware of his dissatisfaction, it's serious. Unless he's the kind of guy who whines generally.

I'm the long-winded poster above. There are lots of things people are unhappy about but willing to put up with, and lots if things people are unhappy about but they put up with temporarily because other stuff is taking precedent. I was unhappy (and let him know) that he wasn't helping with the kids at all, that he was angry most if time, unwilling to recognize my needs, etc. Not so much that I was willing to leave him or cheat (didn't really have time for either anyway). Took him having an affair to wake up to the validity if my needs too.

Thanks for responding. There was a lot of value in your post above. I didn't have the time to write anything more extensive than what I put in the PP, so my apologies if I was dismissive.

When I've expressed unhappiness about our sex life, my wife has raised issues of, for example, being tired from all the work around the house or needing help with the kids. No problem. I step up my efforts with the kids. I step up my efforts with the housework. I've been patient -- eventually the kids went to school full time. She expressed a need, I made an effort to address them. You think that moved the needle on our sex life a bit? Nope. So, even though she was probably sincere when she said those were things killing her sex drive, I'm just left feeling like a manipulated chump. I make her life easier. So, does she spend her extra leisure time thinking of ways to make our sex life better? Nope. She just fills up her hours with extra hobbies and tasks.

So, your post makes me wonder if it takes some over-the-top, unconscionable asshole move like an affair to wake her the fuck up to the fact that our sex life sucks, and after years of patience and heart-to-heart talking and trying to meet the preconditions she throws in the way, I'm starting to despair and come to the conclusion that our sex life will never, ever get better.

I'm a wife in your position. Did counseling and the improvements lasted about 6 weeks. Bottom line: sex will never be materially better for me, because my H is just not that interested. Our kids are older now but like your wife, my H finds other things, including sleeping 10 hours a night, to do to avoid sex. Low drive people are just low drive people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Have you and wife discussed frequency? No? Well go do that!! Agree on a mutually acceptable "times per week" for sex.
Have you and wife discussed the best days/times for you to initiate sex (meaning when is she feeling most sexual and receptive)?
Have you and wife discussed the best way(s) for you to initiate?
Have you and wife discussed your preferred ways(s) for her to decline? Hint: rather than her just saying NO, she could suggest a specific time in the near future for you to try again

After you have all these answers, and you are both on the same page in these key areas, things are really quite simple.
You now will know exactly HOW and WHEN and HOW OFTEN to initiate sex, and if (despite all this good planning) she STILL happens to decline, well she will tell you exactly when to re-initiate.
All you need to do now is stay within these parameters. Not only will she never be "surprised" by your initiation, she may even begin to anticipate it (in a good way).

Please don't tell me you are one of these sexless marriage guys who insist that SHE initiate?

All of this assumes that her intellectual thoughts about sex line up with her body's feelings about sex and that she actually knows what she wants. Times per week? Intellectually, she thinks once a week would be good. Her body is probably in the mood once a month. Result is sex twice a month, one of which is any good. I ask her what turns her on. She says she doesn't know. She "wants to want to have sex."

I initiate more than she does, but we pretty much only have sex the times she initiates. Results in me initiating a lot less.

[Anonymous]

Here is a novel idea OP, she doesn't want sex with you because she is bored with sex with you. Its just that simple. Your days of being the new shiny toy are long over

[Anonymous]

All of this assumes that her intellectual thoughts about sex line up with her body's feelings about sex and that she actually knows what she wants. Times per week? Intellectually, she thinks once a week would be good. Her body is probably in the mood once a month. Result is sex twice a month, one of which is any good. I ask her what turns her on. She says she doesn't know. She "wants to want to have sex."

I initiate more than she does, but we pretty much only have sex the times she initiates. Results in me initiating a lot less.

So you asked her directly about frequency and she answered once per week?
Are you OK with that number? This is a very important point that you must both agree on.

You did not really answer my questions.
If course if you have already "checked out" there is not much point.
But on the off chance that you'd rather have a satisfying sexlife with your current wife, please go back and re-read my post then answer the questions. I have some relevant experience with this topic, but I'd rather not waste my time if you don't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

All of this assumes that her intellectual thoughts about sex line up with her body's feelings about sex and that she actually knows what she wants. Times per week? Intellectually, she thinks once a week would be good. Her body is probably in the mood once a month. Result is sex twice a month, one of which is any good. I ask her what turns her on. She says she doesn't know. She "wants to want to have sex."

I initiate more than she does, but we pretty much only have sex the times she initiates. Results in me initiating a lot less.

So you asked her directly about frequency and she answered once per week?
Are you OK with that number? This is a very important point that you must both agree on.

You did not really answer my questions.
If course if you have already "checked out" there is not much point.
But on the off chance that you'd rather have a satisfying sexlife with your current wife, please go back and re-read my post then answer the questions. I have some relevant experience with this topic, but I'd rather not waste my time if you don't care.

Not the OP. I've had the frequency conversation with my wife. She answered once a week. I'm happy enough with that number if it actually happened. I've asked her what I can do to make her enjoy sex more. She says she doesn't know. She won't do morning sex, and she won't do sex until after the kids are in bed. She doesn't like being woken up for anything. That leaves me an initiation window of about 9-10:30. That window is only open while she is awake (she falls asleep on the couch a lot) and if she doesn't preemptively announce that she's tired, bloated, or otherwise not feeling good. That window will also close if I inadvertently do something to make her unhappy in the preceding 12 hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is a novel idea OP, she doesn't want sex with you because she is bored with sex with you. Its just that simple. Your days of being the new shiny toy are long over

OP here, I agree with you to some extent. I don't take it personally, I get lots of outside sexual attention from other women. I think it is common for a lot of women. Difference being that I have daily sexual urges regardless of whether I am single or married. Like a lot of women with small kids, the feeling of wanting sex doesn't come naturally for DW, but I am sure if she had a new man in her life her desire would fire back up.

I am totally willing to negotiate non-monogamy. She isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

All of this assumes that her intellectual thoughts about sex line up with her body's feelings about sex and that she actually knows what she wants. Times per week? Intellectually, she thinks once a week would be good. Her body is probably in the mood once a month. Result is sex twice a month, one of which is any good. I ask her what turns her on. She says she doesn't know. She "wants to want to have sex."

I initiate more than she does, but we pretty much only have sex the times she initiates. Results in me initiating a lot less.

So you asked her directly about frequency and she answered once per week?
Are you OK with that number? This is a very important point that you must both agree on.

You did not really answer my questions.
If course if you have already "checked out" there is not much point.
But on the off chance that you'd rather have a satisfying sexlife with your current wife, please go back and re-read my post then answer the questions. I have some relevant experience with this topic, but I'd rather not waste my time if you don't care.

Not the OP. I've had the frequency conversation with my wife. She answered once a week. I'm happy enough with that number if it actually happened. I've asked her what I can do to make her enjoy sex more. She says she doesn't know. She won't do morning sex, and she won't do sex until after the kids are in bed. She doesn't like being woken up for anything. That leaves me an initiation window of about 9-10:30. That window is only open while she is awake (she falls asleep on the couch a lot) and if she doesn't preemptively announce that she's tired, bloated, or otherwise not feeling good. That window will also close if I inadvertently do something to make her unhappy in the preceding 12 hours.

Sorry to hear this. I have been in this situation too. There is nothing worse than being in a relationship where there is a big sexual imbalance AND the low drive person makes zero effort to get in the mood or tell their partner what they need from them to get in the mood.

You are a saint if you have remained faithful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Have you and wife discussed frequency? No? Well go do that!! Agree on a mutually acceptable "times per week" for sex.
Have you and wife discussed the best days/times for you to initiate sex (meaning when is she feeling most sexual and receptive)?
Have you and wife discussed the best way(s) for you to initiate?
Have you and wife discussed your preferred ways(s) for her to decline? Hint: rather than her just saying NO, she could suggest a specific time in the near future for you to try again

After you have all these answers, and you are both on the same page in these key areas, things are really quite simple.
You now will know exactly HOW and WHEN and HOW OFTEN to initiate sex, and if (despite all this good planning) she STILL happens to decline, well she will tell you exactly when to re-initiate.
All you need to do now is stay within these parameters. Not only will she never be "surprised" by your initiation, she may even begin to anticipate it (in a good way).

Please don't tell me you are one of these sexless marriage guys who insist that SHE initiate?

All of this assumes that her intellectual thoughts about sex line up with her body's feelings about sex and that she actually knows what she wants. Times per week? Intellectually, she thinks once a week would be good. Her body is probably in the mood once a month. Result is sex twice a month, one of which is any good. I ask her what turns her on. She says she doesn't know. She "wants to want to have sex."

I initiate more than she does, but we pretty much only have sex the times she initiates. Results in me initiating a lot less.

Was she more into sex before marriage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Have you and wife discussed frequency? No? Well go do that!! Agree on a mutually acceptable "times per week" for sex.
Have you and wife discussed the best days/times for you to initiate sex (meaning when is she feeling most sexual and receptive)?
Have you and wife discussed the best way(s) for you to initiate?
Have you and wife discussed your preferred ways(s) for her to decline? Hint: rather than her just saying NO, she could suggest a specific time in the near future for you to try again

After you have all these answers, and you are both on the same page in these key areas, things are really quite simple.
You now will know exactly HOW and WHEN and HOW OFTEN to initiate sex, and if (despite all this good planning) she STILL happens to decline, well she will tell you exactly when to re-initiate.
All you need to do now is stay within these parameters. Not only will she never be "surprised" by your initiation, she may even begin to anticipate it (in a good way).

Please don't tell me you are one of these sexless marriage guys who insist that SHE initiate?

All of this assumes that her intellectual thoughts about sex line up with her body's feelings about sex and that she actually knows what she wants. Times per week? Intellectually, she thinks once a week would be good. Her body is probably in the mood once a month. Result is sex twice a month, one of which is any good. I ask her what turns her on. She says she doesn't know. She "wants to want to have sex."

I initiate more than she does, but we pretty much only have sex the times she initiates. Results in me initiating a lot less.

Was she more into sex before marriage?

Our drives were pretty well balanced until the second kid came along - once or twice a week; neither of us had terrifically high drives. But, after the birth of the second - that's when the wheels came off (or, I suppose during the second pregnancy, but pregnancy is such a tough time in my mind it "didn't count." Kids are 9 & 10 now. I didn't really speak up about my dissatisfaction until 2 or 3 years ago. I was waiting out the infant & toddler years, hoping things would get better when the kids went to school and my wife had more kid-free time. My patience ended during a period when we went 2 months without sex. Since then, we've had a few discussions. The discussions always end up with her crying because she feels like a bad wife and she wants to want to have sex but just doesn't. That's followed by a period where the relationship is awkward because of the hurt feelings from the sex talk but also where we have more sex because we're making it more of a priority.

The only time during the past few years where the sex was notably good was when she read the 50 Shades series. During that period, she responded favorably to my initiations, and, consequently, I initiated more aggressively and more frequently. After that, I suggested she read more erotica. She agreed that it helped but for some reason hasn't made the effort to read any more erotic novels and the like.

[Anonymous]

Have you tried weekend trips or overnight stays? We take a random weekday off so that we can spend the whole day together. Sometimes even date nights are hard if you've been dealing with children all day and need to tend to them after getting home. Do the kids ever go on sleep overs at the same time? If you don't like the 'window' of time you have to work with than try to be more creative about how to get quality time in with your spouse. I would think it's pretty unromantic and difficult to get in the mood when you have 1.5 hours to seal the deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Have you and wife discussed frequency? No? Well go do that!! Agree on a mutually acceptable "times per week" for sex.
Have you and wife discussed the best days/times for you to initiate sex (meaning when is she feeling most sexual and receptive)?
Have you and wife discussed the best way(s) for you to initiate?
Have you and wife discussed your preferred ways(s) for her to decline? Hint: rather than her just saying NO, she could suggest a specific time in the near future for you to try again

After you have all these answers, and you are both on the same page in these key areas, things are really quite simple.
You now will know exactly HOW and WHEN and HOW OFTEN to initiate sex, and if (despite all this good planning) she STILL happens to decline, well she will tell you exactly when to re-initiate.
All you need to do now is stay within these parameters. Not only will she never be "surprised" by your initiation, she may even begin to anticipate it (in a good way).

Please don't tell me you are one of these sexless marriage guys who insist that SHE initiate?

All of this assumes that her intellectual thoughts about sex line up with her body's feelings about sex and that she actually knows what she wants. Times per week? Intellectually, she thinks once a week would be good. Her body is probably in the mood once a month. Result is sex twice a month, one of which is any good. I ask her what turns her on. She says she doesn't know. She "wants to want to have sex."

I initiate more than she does, but we pretty much only have sex the times she initiates. Results in me initiating a lot less.

Was she more into sex before marriage?

Our drives were pretty well balanced until the second kid came along - once or twice a week; neither of us had terrifically high drives. But, after the birth of the second - that's when the wheels came off (or, I suppose during the second pregnancy, but pregnancy is such a tough time in my mind it "didn't count." Kids are 9 & 10 now. I didn't really speak up about my dissatisfaction until 2 or 3 years ago. I was waiting out the infant & toddler years, hoping things would get better when the kids went to school and my wife had more kid-free time. My patience ended during a period when we went 2 months without sex. Since then, we've had a few discussions. The discussions always end up with her crying because she feels like a bad wife and she wants to want to have sex but just doesn't. That's followed by a period where the relationship is awkward because of the hurt feelings from the sex talk but also where we have more sex because we're making it more of a priority.

The only time during the past few years where the sex was notably good was when she read the 50 Shades series. During that period, she responded favorably to my initiations, and, consequently, I initiated more aggressively and more frequently. After that, I suggested she read more erotica. She agreed that it helped but for some reason hasn't made the effort to read any more erotic novels and the like.

Wow, not the OP or the PP but I could have written this about my DW to the letter. I ended up having a brief affair. I didn't feel bad about it. Amazing to see what I was missing, life with sexual passion is so much more worth living.

Good luck, sorry to hear your wives aren't willing to make an effort. You sound like good men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried weekend trips or overnight stays? We take a random weekday off so that we can spend the whole day together. Sometimes even date nights are hard if you've been dealing with children all day and need to tend to them after getting home. Do the kids ever go on sleep overs at the same time? If you don't like the 'window' of time you have to work with than try to be more creative about how to get quality time in with your spouse. I would think it's pretty unromantic and difficult to get in the mood when you have 1.5 hours to seal the deal.

I am not the poster you are addressing. I think weekend trips are nice, and for those with family in the area or who are weathy enough to get a weekend babysitter (us) it is great to getaway and rekindle for a couple weekends a year. But to expect that one should be happy with good sex 2-4 weekends a year and otherwise be left wanting the other 90% isn't a workable compromise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I cannot imagine what you are dealing with BUT I will tell you this.

Get some goddamn balls and talk to your wife. 1) go to counseling if you want to stay married or 2) divorce. If your wide has no clue how serious you are about an affair or divorce TELLING HER might help your cause.

Why cant you people talk to one another. If it doesnt change then leave. I cannot stand these affair threads. You all are spineless.

OP here. Talking it out again is good in theory, but does it actually work? I mean, are there honestly people who have low libidos that had no idea their spouse was deeply unhappy with 1-2x per month sex despite multpile conversations in the past about it? Do you really want your spouse telling you "I will divorce you if you won't have more sex"? I can't imagine her low drive is going to naturally respond to the pressure of sex vs. divorce.

I am not trying to be flippant, she knows I am deeply unhappy about it, but probably doesn't realize I am seriously considering divorce. But if you know of someone who actually talked their way into a better sexual relationship, I am all ears.

NP here. Yes. I am a wife with a low sex drive. I really didn't get how important it was to DH. After a long conversation with him, I am working on it -- seriously smut novels and other stuff helps. I am also talking to my doctor.

I think there is always misunderstanding on both sides. I thought sex was like dessert - nice, but no big deal to miss. He feels like he is missing out on a whole meal. Craves it. We're both learning to find somewhere in between.