He’s not a breadwinner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My boyfriend is an amazing man. He’s very smart, hilarious, gentle, kind, emotionally available, and very loving.

His one bad trait is that he’s not a breadwinner. His career is unorganized, he hates his job, is underemployed, and has no ambition.

We are mid-late 30s and want kids asap.

I have a good career and make pretty good money. I never planned to be the primary breadwinner though. I think I could financially swing it, if he remains supportive and I rev up my career more. if you’ve taken a similar path, any regrets?

Is he smoking hot too? Flip the sexes here and tons of guys would consider this partner to be excellent wife material. Amazing-smart-gentle-kind-loving people (who are excellent cooks no less) are going to rise to the parenting challenge. Lack of ambition is extremely common among many many excellent SAHMs, so why should it be a red flag here?

It is obvious. Because he’s a man. No one is interested in a smokin hot low/non earning MAN. Even for a night.😆

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't a simple answer.

My bff is a doctor married to a hs teacher. She has been so grateful that he was able to be there for their family and do heavy lifting with childcare, cooking, etc., while she was working a gazillion hours a week. At the same time, she also considers him a bit of beta and deeply resents the financial pressure she has been under the entire time they have been raising their family. His salary alone wouldn't have even gotten them a nice apartment in this area, let alone the house they live in. She also feels like he spends "her money" too easily (for example she recently was saying she wanted to go on vacay but didn't have the time/energy/inclination to do all of the planning and then said "DH loves doing it, but he'll pick a place that costs $1000 a night! He loves spending the money I work so hard for!").

I feel like this came up in another thread. People were asking how this happened and I thought this analogy was spot on, except "Jacks" rarely stay in amazing shape haha.

OP, be really careful about this.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/1174035.page

So it goes something like this. Larla is 25 and living in a big city. She has big professional dreams and has landed herself a job at McKinsey/Davis Polk/whatever. She would have loved to meet a nice ambitious guy in grad school, but it didn’t work out, and sometimes those are the breaks. She works long hours - often too long- and it’s hard to find a partner. But then she meets Jack. Wonderful, sweet Jack. Who cooks her breakfast in bed, doesn’t seem to get upset by her intense travel schedule, and genuinely seems like a solid guy. Sure, there are some signs he lacks ambition. He likes his job, but doesn’t love it. He sometimes talks about taking shortcuts at work, which he and Larla brush off with a laugh. Larla sees these things but thinks, Hey. No one gets everything. Plus, maybe I’ll prefer being with someone who helps me invest in my career and see how far I can go. Things are going along well and they get engaged two years later.

A decade later, Jack is in the same job. He likes it, but doesn’t love it, but is far too comfortable to change anything. Larla is now a partner at her big firm. It wasn’t what she expected, but she likes the job enough, is good enough at it, and it pays very well. Plus she knows no one will pay her this much money doing anything else. She begins to resent the hours and Jack himself. He loves her for sure, but isnt very ambitious and won’t kick it into high drive so she can take a step back. Unlike a lot of supporting husbands, Jack does his share (pick up, shopping, cooking, their cleaning lady, drop off) but somehow Larla still manages the nanny and has to keep track of school spirit week. To make matters worse, she and Jack see the partners’ wives at the annual firm dinner. She used to look down on these women - not smart enough to make partner, not driven even to get a job like hers, not much beyond a cute face. But she envies them. She knows their lives aren’t perfect, but gosh, she sort of wants to be taken care of just a little bit. She wants her career, but wants it to be secondary so she can be the super fit mom on the beach who wears a bikini while she plays with her kids. Instead, her expensive designer suits cover up the 15 pounds she never lost from her last pregnancy.

She knew who Jack was a decade ago, but she didn’t fully understand her choice by then. And as he works his chill job, stays in great shape, and takes a liking to 5 star hotels (that she pays for!) she is RESENTFUL.

Thats how it happens.

That’s seriously Larla’s problem of not knowing what she wanted. She looked down on those women for having to ask the husbands for tampons money and now she wants to be taken care of. She thinks she would lose 15 pounds if only her husband earned more money. You know the saying wherever you go there you are - this is Larla who would be resentful no matter what

100%. Larla is definitely responsible for her choices.

I think the broader point, and this relates to the charges of sexism above, is that it's really hard to "change the weather" when it comes to gender dynamics. Most women, no matter how low ambition or passive they are - want a man who is more ambitious than them, more assertive than them etc. So high achieving HBS alum Larla is fighting what some would say is a primal instinct to want HBS Chad. It's no different than men valuing beauty in women. Can't change the weather.

And I agree teaching is an honorable profession. But for everyone there who is working hard to change the world, there are some who are mostly there for the summers off and relatively low-performance expectations. I assume the PP with the doctor friend is moreso talking about that.

What's wrong with wanting summers off? Why does EVERYONE in DCUM land have to be so go go go all the time?

You don't think it's an issue when the DW is having to go go go all the time to pay the bills, including college tuition, to the extent that she feels resentful and exhausted and the DH is spending his summers off sitting in their basement playing World of Warcraft and watching Star Wars and re-reading LOTR for the fifth time?

If OP’s boyfriend is this kind of guy she needs to put her desperation aside and keep looking. It’s ridiculous to get married and have kids when you know there’s major flaws that you will not put up with later.

I think there’s a bait and switch on both sides with these couples-the lazy guy who probably doesn’t care about kids but wants a wife to care of him forever and the ambitious but probably unpleasant woman who settles last minute and does marriage and kids with someone she criticizes constantly 10 years later. Both sides knew deep down what they were getting into and want to act like the victim years after the fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is not a man unless he can support you. All you boy moms pay attention.

No woman respects a man who can’t even earn more.

What is wrong with women on DCUM?

My DH makes75K/yr as a golf instructor, and he only works nine weeks per year. I make 1.5M/yr in tech sales, and I am perfectly happy with this arrangement. DH takes very good care of the children so that I can focus on making money. DH was a tall and very handsome professional golfer when we first met, and he is still tall and very handsome today. I could not have asked for a better person in my life than DH. My lifestyle is not going to change if I marry a law firm partner who makes 1M+/year. I do not need more money. If DH leaves me tomorrow, he would NOT have any problem finding someone who can make more than me. In terms of physical attractiveness, DH is a 12 out of 10.

Not true. He is older now and high earning women would not touch him.

FALSE...

I am a tennis instructor at a high-end country club, and I've slept with so many high-earning women who are also my students. One divorced woman is a partner at a law firm, and she makes twenty times what I make, and she wanted me to move in with her. She said that I am much better looking than her fat and alcoholic husband, who is also a law firm partner. Just saying.

[Anonymous]

“He’s very smart, hilarious, gentle, kind, emotionally available, and very loving.”

You’re describing my first grade son. Adults contribute to the workforce and their community, and take pride in supporting themselves and their families. But if you think his kind and gentle disposition will overcome all of the downsides of a deadbeat father, welll…eff around and find out.

[Anonymous]

Don't do it. You'll regret shouldering a lot at home plus being the major paycheck. I'm 28 years into a marriage like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin married the unambitious guy who while dating and before kids seemed like a great partner. He was good with kids, engaged and attentive, funny and a good time at social gatherings, and well liked all around. He had a decent job but did not have the desire to make more money or advance in his job. They talked about this and she was ok with it (at the time)

Fast forward 10 years. Turns out despite being good with kids he was not actually that good at fathering. He also slowly developed a video game addiction and some other socially acceptable habits become more addictions for him. She carried the labor or managing the household, finances and kids. His lack of ambition that was once just professional seemed to spread into all areas of his personal and home life.

His lack of ambition at work developed into a sort of indifference and lack of integrity about the work he did and there were professional problems too.

Cousin ended up divorced.

I say be cautious of the man with no professional ambitions. This is not the same as the man who has passion, determination and a solid work ethic but just happens to be in work that will never be particularly high paying. The lack of integrity around work actually reveals a lack of integrity as a person and I don’t think it will end well to have such a person as a partner in life.

+100

A good father would be building some type of solid career to be able to support future kids. He’s saying ALL the things you want to hear bc he wants a meal ticket OP. It won’t last.

[Anonymous]

Tell us about his family and friends, OP.

What is his living situation like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My boyfriend is an amazing man. He’s very smart, hilarious, gentle, kind, emotionally available, and very loving.

His one bad trait is that he’s not a breadwinner. His career is unorganized, he hates his job, is underemployed, and has no ambition.

We are mid-late 30s and want kids asap.

I have a good career and make pretty good money. I never planned to be the primary breadwinner though. I think I could financially swing it, if he remains supportive and I rev up my career more. if you’ve taken a similar path, any regrets?

At his age, what are his plans re retirement savings?

Does he stand to inherit a large sum?

Do you live in DMV or another high COL area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you be thinking about marrying and having kids with him if you were 6-10 years younger?

It’s okay if the answer is no and you do it anyway. But be honest with yourself about it, because he isn’t going to change.

OP here. This is a good question. I think I’d still consider it. We have a strong emotional connection and I find that hard to come by.

To add more info. He’s a great cook, frugal shopper, and does take out the trash (he takes out my trash without me asking and we don’t live together). I think he can be depended upon to shuttle kids around and get them to their appointments.

When I say he’s not ambitious I mean in his career. He has no plan for achieving career goals, and doesn’t seem to be passionate about his career.

I wouldn’t want him to be a SAHD. I’m envisioning him continuing to work but picking the slack up with kids, because I will have to be in overdrive to earn more.

What conversations have you had with him about HIS expectations? Would he sign a prenup so you can protect your future kids? Are you in a state where you may owe him alimony?

What are his parents and siblings like? Has he had long term relationships? Does he live with family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is not a man unless he can support you. All you boy moms pay attention.

No woman respects a man who can’t even earn more.

What is wrong with women on DCUM?

My DH makes75K/yr as a golf instructor, and he only works nine weeks per year. I make 1.5M/yr in tech sales, and I am perfectly happy with this arrangement. DH takes very good care of the children so that I can focus on making money. DH was a tall and very handsome professional golfer when we first met, and he is still tall and very handsome today. I could not have asked for a better person in my life than DH. My lifestyle is not going to change if I marry a law firm partner who makes 1M+/year. I do not need more money. If DH leaves me tomorrow, he would NOT have any problem finding someone who can make more than me. In terms of physical attractiveness, DH is a 12 out of 10.

Not true. He is older now and high earning women would not touch him.

FALSE...

I am a tennis instructor at a high-end country club, and I've slept with so many high-earning women who are also my students. One divorced woman is a partner at a law firm, and she makes twenty times what I make, and she wanted me to move in with her. She said that I am much better looking than her fat and alcoholic husband, who is also a law firm partner. Just saying.

Sure you did, Jan. 😂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't a simple answer.

My bff is a doctor married to a hs teacher. She has been so grateful that he was able to be there for their family and do heavy lifting with childcare, cooking, etc., while she was working a gazillion hours a week. At the same time, she also considers him a bit of beta and deeply resents the financial pressure she has been under the entire time they have been raising their family. His salary alone wouldn't have even gotten them a nice apartment in this area, let alone the house they live in. She also feels like he spends "her money" too easily (for example she recently was saying she wanted to go on vacay but didn't have the time/energy/inclination to do all of the planning and then said "DH loves doing it, but he'll pick a place that costs $1000 a night! He loves spending the money I work so hard for!").

I feel like this came up in another thread. People were asking how this happened and I thought this analogy was spot on, except "Jacks" rarely stay in amazing shape haha.

OP, be really careful about this.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/1174035.page

So it goes something like this. Larla is 25 and living in a big city. She has big professional dreams and has landed herself a job at McKinsey/Davis Polk/whatever. She would have loved to meet a nice ambitious guy in grad school, but it didn’t work out, and sometimes those are the breaks. She works long hours - often too long- and it’s hard to find a partner. But then she meets Jack. Wonderful, sweet Jack. Who cooks her breakfast in bed, doesn’t seem to get upset by her intense travel schedule, and genuinely seems like a solid guy. Sure, there are some signs he lacks ambition. He likes his job, but doesn’t love it. He sometimes talks about taking shortcuts at work, which he and Larla brush off with a laugh. Larla sees these things but thinks, Hey. No one gets everything. Plus, maybe I’ll prefer being with someone who helps me invest in my career and see how far I can go. Things are going along well and they get engaged two years later.

A decade later, Jack is in the same job. He likes it, but doesn’t love it, but is far too comfortable to change anything. Larla is now a partner at her big firm. It wasn’t what she expected, but she likes the job enough, is good enough at it, and it pays very well. Plus she knows no one will pay her this much money doing anything else. She begins to resent the hours and Jack himself. He loves her for sure, but isnt very ambitious and won’t kick it into high drive so she can take a step back. Unlike a lot of supporting husbands, Jack does his share (pick up, shopping, cooking, their cleaning lady, drop off) but somehow Larla still manages the nanny and has to keep track of school spirit week. To make matters worse, she and Jack see the partners’ wives at the annual firm dinner. She used to look down on these women - not smart enough to make partner, not driven even to get a job like hers, not much beyond a cute face. But she envies them. She knows their lives aren’t perfect, but gosh, she sort of wants to be taken care of just a little bit. She wants her career, but wants it to be secondary so she can be the super fit mom on the beach who wears a bikini while she plays with her kids. Instead, her expensive designer suits cover up the 15 pounds she never lost from her last pregnancy.

She knew who Jack was a decade ago, but she didn’t fully understand her choice by then. And as he works his chill job, stays in great shape, and takes a liking to 5 star hotels (that she pays for!) she is RESENTFUL.

Thats how it happens.

That’s seriously Larla’s problem of not knowing what she wanted. She looked down on those women for having to ask the husbands for tampons money and now she wants to be taken care of. She thinks she would lose 15 pounds if only her husband earned more money. You know the saying wherever you go there you are - this is Larla who would be resentful no matter what

100%. Larla is definitely responsible for her choices.

I think the broader point, and this relates to the charges of sexism above, is that it's really hard to "change the weather" when it comes to gender dynamics. Most women, no matter how low ambition or passive they are - want a man who is more ambitious than them, more assertive than them etc. So high achieving HBS alum Larla is fighting what some would say is a primal instinct to want HBS Chad. It's no different than men valuing beauty in women. Can't change the weather.

And I agree teaching is an honorable profession. But for everyone there who is working hard to change the world, there are some who are mostly there for the summers off and relatively low-performance expectations. I assume the PP with the doctor friend is moreso talking about that.

What's wrong with wanting summers off? Why does EVERYONE in DCUM land have to be so go go go all the time?

You don't think it's an issue when the DW is having to go go go all the time to pay the bills, including college tuition, to the extent that she feels resentful and exhausted and the DH is spending his summers off sitting in their basement playing World of Warcraft and watching Star Wars and re-reading LOTR for the fifth time?

Sorry but this is the real world. If women want to equality you will have to actually do what men do including the resentment of carrying your spouse who does not provide. Man up!

And when will men do what women do and take all the risks and financial hits of having kids.

Equality means bringing equal value to the table. The kids count for part of the woman’s contribution and the man needs to make it up somewhere— most men make it up in financials some make it up in doing more with the house and kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't a simple answer.

My bff is a doctor married to a hs teacher. She has been so grateful that he was able to be there for their family and do heavy lifting with childcare, cooking, etc., while she was working a gazillion hours a week. At the same time, she also considers him a bit of beta and deeply resents the financial pressure she has been under the entire time they have been raising their family. His salary alone wouldn't have even gotten them a nice apartment in this area, let alone the house they live in. She also feels like he spends "her money" too easily (for example she recently was saying she wanted to go on vacay but didn't have the time/energy/inclination to do all of the planning and then said "DH loves doing it, but he'll pick a place that costs $1000 a night! He loves spending the money I work so hard for!").

I feel like this came up in another thread. People were asking how this happened and I thought this analogy was spot on, except "Jacks" rarely stay in amazing shape haha.

OP, be really careful about this.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/1174035.page

So it goes something like this. Larla is 25 and living in a big city. She has big professional dreams and has landed herself a job at McKinsey/Davis Polk/whatever. She would have loved to meet a nice ambitious guy in grad school, but it didn’t work out, and sometimes those are the breaks. She works long hours - often too long- and it’s hard to find a partner. But then she meets Jack. Wonderful, sweet Jack. Who cooks her breakfast in bed, doesn’t seem to get upset by her intense travel schedule, and genuinely seems like a solid guy. Sure, there are some signs he lacks ambition. He likes his job, but doesn’t love it. He sometimes talks about taking shortcuts at work, which he and Larla brush off with a laugh. Larla sees these things but thinks, Hey. No one gets everything. Plus, maybe I’ll prefer being with someone who helps me invest in my career and see how far I can go. Things are going along well and they get engaged two years later.

A decade later, Jack is in the same job. He likes it, but doesn’t love it, but is far too comfortable to change anything. Larla is now a partner at her big firm. It wasn’t what she expected, but she likes the job enough, is good enough at it, and it pays very well. Plus she knows no one will pay her this much money doing anything else. She begins to resent the hours and Jack himself. He loves her for sure, but isnt very ambitious and won’t kick it into high drive so she can take a step back. Unlike a lot of supporting husbands, Jack does his share (pick up, shopping, cooking, their cleaning lady, drop off) but somehow Larla still manages the nanny and has to keep track of school spirit week. To make matters worse, she and Jack see the partners’ wives at the annual firm dinner. She used to look down on these women - not smart enough to make partner, not driven even to get a job like hers, not much beyond a cute face. But she envies them. She knows their lives aren’t perfect, but gosh, she sort of wants to be taken care of just a little bit. She wants her career, but wants it to be secondary so she can be the super fit mom on the beach who wears a bikini while she plays with her kids. Instead, her expensive designer suits cover up the 15 pounds she never lost from her last pregnancy.

She knew who Jack was a decade ago, but she didn’t fully understand her choice by then. And as he works his chill job, stays in great shape, and takes a liking to 5 star hotels (that she pays for!) she is RESENTFUL.

Thats how it happens.

That’s seriously Larla’s problem of not knowing what she wanted. She looked down on those women for having to ask the husbands for tampons money and now she wants to be taken care of. She thinks she would lose 15 pounds if only her husband earned more money. You know the saying wherever you go there you are - this is Larla who would be resentful no matter what

Are you 20 years old or something? What we want can change. And does.

Of course, it can and does. But the f your wants changed, it’s on you to figure out how to adjust the rest of your life to match them.

[Anonymous]

Statistically, husbands who under earn their wives wre more likely to divorce specifically by cheating on them and often these wives will then paying child support to them. So it’s a big risk. I think frankly society is hard on guys who try this route and often their ego just can’t take the hit of not being the ‘provider.’ Plus in very important ways moms will always be primary caregivers no matter how much your husband takes on. If you take on this spouse you need to downgrade your lifestyle such that if he is the breadwinner you could still get by. If you are willing to do that then go for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Statistically, husbands who under earn their wives wre more likely to divorce specifically by cheating on them and often these wives will then paying child support to them. So it’s a big risk. I think frankly society is hard on guys who try this route and often their ego just can’t take the hit of not being the ‘provider.’ Plus in very important ways moms will always be primary caregivers no matter how much your husband takes on. If you take on this spouse you need to downgrade your lifestyle such that if he is the breadwinner you could still get by. If you are willing to do that then go for it.

He doesn’t want that life. If he thought it was really on the table he would find another sugar mama to offer his emotional connection and fancy meals to is my guess.

He may also be the kind of man child who will be jealous and resentful when you pay attention to kids.

At a certain point he will be so off course in normal adult life that he won’t have a career where ramping up is possible. That is when you may owe for alimony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Statistically, husbands who under earn their wives wre more likely to divorce specifically by cheating on them and often these wives will then paying child support to them. So it’s a big risk. I think frankly society is hard on guys who try this route and often their ego just can’t take the hit of not being the ‘provider.’ Plus in very important ways moms will always be primary caregivers no matter how much your husband takes on. If you take on this spouse you need to downgrade your lifestyle such that if he is the breadwinner you could still get by. If you are willing to do that then go for it.

OP could you imagine trusting him to be the provider?