He’s not a breadwinner

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't a simple answer.

My bff is a doctor married to a hs teacher. She has been so grateful that he was able to be there for their family and do heavy lifting with childcare, cooking, etc., while she was working a gazillion hours a week. At the same time, she also considers him a bit of beta and deeply resents the financial pressure she has been under the entire time they have been raising their family. His salary alone wouldn't have even gotten them a nice apartment in this area, let alone the house they live in. She also feels like he spends "her money" too easily (for example she recently was saying she wanted to go on vacay but didn't have the time/energy/inclination to do all of the planning and then said "DH loves doing it, but he'll pick a place that costs $1000 a night! He loves spending the money I work so hard for!").

I feel like this came up in another thread. People were asking how this happened and I thought this analogy was spot on, except "Jacks" rarely stay in amazing shape haha.

OP, be really careful about this.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/1174035.page

So it goes something like this. Larla is 25 and living in a big city. She has big professional dreams and has landed herself a job at McKinsey/Davis Polk/whatever. She would have loved to meet a nice ambitious guy in grad school, but it didn’t work out, and sometimes those are the breaks. She works long hours - often too long- and it’s hard to find a partner. But then she meets Jack. Wonderful, sweet Jack. Who cooks her breakfast in bed, doesn’t seem to get upset by her intense travel schedule, and genuinely seems like a solid guy. Sure, there are some signs he lacks ambition. He likes his job, but doesn’t love it. He sometimes talks about taking shortcuts at work, which he and Larla brush off with a laugh. Larla sees these things but thinks, Hey. No one gets everything. Plus, maybe I’ll prefer being with someone who helps me invest in my career and see how far I can go. Things are going along well and they get engaged two years later.

A decade later, Jack is in the same job. He likes it, but doesn’t love it, but is far too comfortable to change anything. Larla is now a partner at her big firm. It wasn’t what she expected, but she likes the job enough, is good enough at it, and it pays very well. Plus she knows no one will pay her this much money doing anything else. She begins to resent the hours and Jack himself. He loves her for sure, but isnt very ambitious and won’t kick it into high drive so she can take a step back. Unlike a lot of supporting husbands, Jack does his share (pick up, shopping, cooking, their cleaning lady, drop off) but somehow Larla still manages the nanny and has to keep track of school spirit week. To make matters worse, she and Jack see the partners’ wives at the annual firm dinner. She used to look down on these women - not smart enough to make partner, not driven even to get a job like hers, not much beyond a cute face. But she envies them. She knows their lives aren’t perfect, but gosh, she sort of wants to be taken care of just a little bit. She wants her career, but wants it to be secondary so she can be the super fit mom on the beach who wears a bikini while she plays with her kids. Instead, her expensive designer suits cover up the 15 pounds she never lost from her last pregnancy.

She knew who Jack was a decade ago, but she didn’t fully understand her choice by then. And as he works his chill job, stays in great shape, and takes a liking to 5 star hotels (that she pays for!) she is RESENTFUL.

Thats how it happens.

That’s seriously Larla’s problem of not knowing what she wanted. She looked down on those women for having to ask the husbands for tampons money and now she wants to be taken care of. She thinks she would lose 15 pounds if only her husband earned more money. You know the saying wherever you go there you are - this is Larla who would be resentful no matter what

100%. Larla is definitely responsible for her choices.

I think the broader point, and this relates to the charges of sexism above, is that it's really hard to "change the weather" when it comes to gender dynamics. Most women, no matter how low ambition or passive they are - want a man who is more ambitious than them, more assertive than them etc. So high achieving HBS alum Larla is fighting what some would say is a primal instinct to want HBS Chad. It's no different than men valuing beauty in women. Can't change the weather.

And I agree teaching is an honorable profession. But for everyone there who is working hard to change the world, there are some who are mostly there for the summers off and relatively low-performance expectations. I assume the PP with the doctor friend is moreso talking about that.

What's wrong with wanting summers off? Why does EVERYONE in DCUM land have to be so go go go all the time?

You don't think it's an issue when the DW is having to go go go all the time to pay the bills, including college tuition, to the extent that she feels resentful and exhausted and the DH is spending his summers off sitting in their basement playing World of Warcraft and watching Star Wars and re-reading LOTR for the fifth time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My cousin married the unambitious guy who while dating and before kids seemed like a great partner. He was good with kids, engaged and attentive, funny and a good time at social gatherings, and well liked all around. He had a decent job but did not have the desire to make more money or advance in his job. They talked about this and she was ok with it (at the time)

Fast forward 10 years. Turns out despite being good with kids he was not actually that good at fathering. He also slowly developed a video game addiction and some other socially acceptable habits become more addictions for him. She carried the labor or managing the household, finances and kids. His lack of ambition that was once just professional seemed to spread into all areas of his personal and home life.

His lack of ambition at work developed into a sort of indifference and lack of integrity about the work he did and there were professional problems too.

Cousin ended up divorced.

I say be cautious of the man with no professional ambitions. This is not the same as the man who has passion, determination and a solid work ethic but just happens to be in work that will never be particularly high paying. The lack of integrity around work actually reveals a lack of integrity as a person and I don’t think it will end well to have such a person as a partner in life.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:rather be with a guy who is not super driven and support myself than a controlling psycho which sums up a lot of driven guys who aren't good parents or helpful around the house either.

Surely you know that these are not the only two options?

[Anonymous]

I am all for feminism and modernity. But a man who doesn’t earn a higher salary than his wife is not a man at all.

[Anonymous]

OP, look into becoming a SMC with bought donor sperm. Don’t tie yourself and your kid to a guy that has bigger issues than you want to admit. Divorce would be inevitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My boyfriend is an amazing man. He’s very smart, hilarious, gentle, kind, emotionally available, and very loving.

His one bad trait is that he’s not a breadwinner. His career is unorganized, he hates his job, is underemployed, and has no ambition.

We are mid-late 30s and want kids asap.

I have a good career and make pretty good money. I never planned to be the primary breadwinner though. I think I could financially swing it, if he remains supportive and I rev up my career more. if you’ve taken a similar path, any regrets?

Your problem is not that he is not a “breadwinner,” but rather the bolded. I am the breadwinner in our family and make multiples of what DH makes. But he is a hard worker and is dedicated to his profession. I respect him very much and also rely on him a lot for managing the household and the kids when I am busy.

OP: do not have kids with a lazy person! Run now.

[Anonymous]

Most SAHDs are bound to be cheated on because no woman respects a SAHD; they are certainly not attracted to SAHDs in “that” way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't a simple answer.

My bff is a doctor married to a hs teacher. She has been so grateful that he was able to be there for their family and do heavy lifting with childcare, cooking, etc., while she was working a gazillion hours a week. At the same time, she also considers him a bit of beta and deeply resents the financial pressure she has been under the entire time they have been raising their family. His salary alone wouldn't have even gotten them a nice apartment in this area, let alone the house they live in. She also feels like he spends "her money" too easily (for example she recently was saying she wanted to go on vacay but didn't have the time/energy/inclination to do all of the planning and then said "DH loves doing it, but he'll pick a place that costs $1000 a night! He loves spending the money I work so hard for!").

I feel like this came up in another thread. People were asking how this happened and I thought this analogy was spot on, except "Jacks" rarely stay in amazing shape haha.

OP, be really careful about this.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/1174035.page

So it goes something like this. Larla is 25 and living in a big city. She has big professional dreams and has landed herself a job at McKinsey/Davis Polk/whatever. She would have loved to meet a nice ambitious guy in grad school, but it didn’t work out, and sometimes those are the breaks. She works long hours - often too long- and it’s hard to find a partner. But then she meets Jack. Wonderful, sweet Jack. Who cooks her breakfast in bed, doesn’t seem to get upset by her intense travel schedule, and genuinely seems like a solid guy. Sure, there are some signs he lacks ambition. He likes his job, but doesn’t love it. He sometimes talks about taking shortcuts at work, which he and Larla brush off with a laugh. Larla sees these things but thinks, Hey. No one gets everything. Plus, maybe I’ll prefer being with someone who helps me invest in my career and see how far I can go. Things are going along well and they get engaged two years later.

A decade later, Jack is in the same job. He likes it, but doesn’t love it, but is far too comfortable to change anything. Larla is now a partner at her big firm. It wasn’t what she expected, but she likes the job enough, is good enough at it, and it pays very well. Plus she knows no one will pay her this much money doing anything else. She begins to resent the hours and Jack himself. He loves her for sure, but isnt very ambitious and won’t kick it into high drive so she can take a step back. Unlike a lot of supporting husbands, Jack does his share (pick up, shopping, cooking, their cleaning lady, drop off) but somehow Larla still manages the nanny and has to keep track of school spirit week. To make matters worse, she and Jack see the partners’ wives at the annual firm dinner. She used to look down on these women - not smart enough to make partner, not driven even to get a job like hers, not much beyond a cute face. But she envies them. She knows their lives aren’t perfect, but gosh, she sort of wants to be taken care of just a little bit. She wants her career, but wants it to be secondary so she can be the super fit mom on the beach who wears a bikini while she plays with her kids. Instead, her expensive designer suits cover up the 15 pounds she never lost from her last pregnancy.

She knew who Jack was a decade ago, but she didn’t fully understand her choice by then. And as he works his chill job, stays in great shape, and takes a liking to 5 star hotels (that she pays for!) she is RESENTFUL.

Thats how it happens.

That’s seriously Larla’s problem of not knowing what she wanted. She looked down on those women for having to ask the husbands for tampons money and now she wants to be taken care of. She thinks she would lose 15 pounds if only her husband earned more money. You know the saying wherever you go there you are - this is Larla who would be resentful no matter what

100%. Larla is definitely responsible for her choices.

I think the broader point, and this relates to the charges of sexism above, is that it's really hard to "change the weather" when it comes to gender dynamics. Most women, no matter how low ambition or passive they are - want a man who is more ambitious than them, more assertive than them etc. So high achieving HBS alum Larla is fighting what some would say is a primal instinct to want HBS Chad. It's no different than men valuing beauty in women. Can't change the weather.

And I agree teaching is an honorable profession. But for everyone there who is working hard to change the world, there are some who are mostly there for the summers off and relatively low-performance expectations. I assume the PP with the doctor friend is moreso talking about that.

What's wrong with wanting summers off? Why does EVERYONE in DCUM land have to be so go go go all the time?

You don't think it's an issue when the DW is having to go go go all the time to pay the bills, including college tuition, to the extent that she feels resentful and exhausted and the DH is spending his summers off sitting in their basement playing World of Warcraft and watching Star Wars and re-reading LOTR for the fifth time?

Sorry but this is the real world. If women want to equality you will have to actually do what men do including the resentment of carrying your spouse who does not provide. Man up!

[Anonymous]

If DCUM has taught me anything, it’s that’s the women who marry the breadwinner—the “real men”—often end up pretty miserable after a while, too. People change in all sorts of directions as they age. Just ask yourself if this is someone you want by your side as both your and his bodies, minds, and priorities change.

The emotional connection you cite, OP, is worth a lot. It used to be enough, before the internet and social media brought on this never ending FOMO and comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If DCUM has taught me anything, it’s that’s the women who marry the breadwinner—the “real men”—often end up pretty miserable after a while, too. People change in all sorts of directions as they age. Just ask yourself if this is someone you want by your side as both your and his bodies, minds, and priorities change.

The emotional connection you cite, OP, is worth a lot. It used to be enough, before the internet and social media brought on this never ending FOMO and comparison.

Bet it changes once she puts a ring on it and kids complicate his life. If you want to play Wendy to his Peter Pan, OP, don’t drag kids into it. 🧚

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't a simple answer.

My bff is a doctor married to a hs teacher. She has been so grateful that he was able to be there for their family and do heavy lifting with childcare, cooking, etc., while she was working a gazillion hours a week. At the same time, she also considers him a bit of beta and deeply resents the financial pressure she has been under the entire time they have been raising their family. His salary alone wouldn't have even gotten them a nice apartment in this area, let alone the house they live in. She also feels like he spends "her money" too easily (for example she recently was saying she wanted to go on vacay but didn't have the time/energy/inclination to do all of the planning and then said "DH loves doing it, but he'll pick a place that costs $1000 a night! He loves spending the money I work so hard for!").

I feel like this came up in another thread. People were asking how this happened and I thought this analogy was spot on, except "Jacks" rarely stay in amazing shape haha.

OP, be really careful about this.

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/1174035.page

So it goes something like this. Larla is 25 and living in a big city. She has big professional dreams and has landed herself a job at McKinsey/Davis Polk/whatever. She would have loved to meet a nice ambitious guy in grad school, but it didn’t work out, and sometimes those are the breaks. She works long hours - often too long- and it’s hard to find a partner. But then she meets Jack. Wonderful, sweet Jack. Who cooks her breakfast in bed, doesn’t seem to get upset by her intense travel schedule, and genuinely seems like a solid guy. Sure, there are some signs he lacks ambition. He likes his job, but doesn’t love it. He sometimes talks about taking shortcuts at work, which he and Larla brush off with a laugh. Larla sees these things but thinks, Hey. No one gets everything. Plus, maybe I’ll prefer being with someone who helps me invest in my career and see how far I can go. Things are going along well and they get engaged two years later.

A decade later, Jack is in the same job. He likes it, but doesn’t love it, but is far too comfortable to change anything. Larla is now a partner at her big firm. It wasn’t what she expected, but she likes the job enough, is good enough at it, and it pays very well. Plus she knows no one will pay her this much money doing anything else. She begins to resent the hours and Jack himself. He loves her for sure, but isnt very ambitious and won’t kick it into high drive so she can take a step back. Unlike a lot of supporting husbands, Jack does his share (pick up, shopping, cooking, their cleaning lady, drop off) but somehow Larla still manages the nanny and has to keep track of school spirit week. To make matters worse, she and Jack see the partners’ wives at the annual firm dinner. She used to look down on these women - not smart enough to make partner, not driven even to get a job like hers, not much beyond a cute face. But she envies them. She knows their lives aren’t perfect, but gosh, she sort of wants to be taken care of just a little bit. She wants her career, but wants it to be secondary so she can be the super fit mom on the beach who wears a bikini while she plays with her kids. Instead, her expensive designer suits cover up the 15 pounds she never lost from her last pregnancy.

She knew who Jack was a decade ago, but she didn’t fully understand her choice by then. And as he works his chill job, stays in great shape, and takes a liking to 5 star hotels (that she pays for!) she is RESENTFUL.

Thats how it happens.

That’s seriously Larla’s problem of not knowing what she wanted. She looked down on those women for having to ask the husbands for tampons money and now she wants to be taken care of. She thinks she would lose 15 pounds if only her husband earned more money. You know the saying wherever you go there you are - this is Larla who would be resentful no matter what

100%. Larla is definitely responsible for her choices.

I think the broader point, and this relates to the charges of sexism above, is that it's really hard to "change the weather" when it comes to gender dynamics. Most women, no matter how low ambition or passive they are - want a man who is more ambitious than them, more assertive than them etc. So high achieving HBS alum Larla is fighting what some would say is a primal instinct to want HBS Chad. It's no different than men valuing beauty in women. Can't change the weather.

And I agree teaching is an honorable profession. But for everyone there who is working hard to change the world, there are some who are mostly there for the summers off and relatively low-performance expectations. I assume the PP with the doctor friend is moreso talking about that.

What's wrong with wanting summers off? Why does EVERYONE in DCUM land have to be so go go go all the time?

You don't think it's an issue when the DW is having to go go go all the time to pay the bills, including college tuition, to the extent that she feels resentful and exhausted and the DH is spending his summers off sitting in their basement playing World of Warcraft and watching Star Wars and re-reading LOTR for the fifth time?

My DH is a teacher and we are empty nesters now with adult kids, but when our kids were young he cared for them all summer. They did day trips, science projects, outings with friends, learned to cook, participated in swim team, the list goes on. DH made dinner for everyone every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My boyfriend is an amazing man. He’s very smart, hilarious, gentle, kind, emotionally available, and very loving.

His one bad trait is that he’s not a breadwinner. His career is unorganized, he hates his job, is underemployed, and has no ambition.

We are mid-late 30s and want kids asap.

I have a good career and make pretty good money. I never planned to be the primary breadwinner though. I think I could financially swing it, if he remains supportive and I rev up my career more. if you’ve taken a similar path, any regrets?

Your problem is not that he is not a “breadwinner,” but rather the bolded. I am the breadwinner in our family and make multiples of what DH makes. But he is a hard worker and is dedicated to his profession. I respect him very much and also rely on him a lot for managing the household and the kids when I am busy.

OP: do not have kids with a lazy person! Run now.

Exactly this. Not being a breadwinner is very different than being lazy, disorganized, hating your job and having no ambition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is not a man unless he can support you. All you boy moms pay attention.

No woman respects a man who can’t even earn more.

What is wrong with women on DCUM?

My DH makes75K/yr as a golf instructor, and he only works nine weeks per year. I make 1.5M/yr in tech sales, and I am perfectly happy with this arrangement. DH takes very good care of the children so that I can focus on making money. DH was a tall and very handsome professional golfer when we first met, and he is still tall and very handsome today. I could not have asked for a better person in my life than DH. My lifestyle is not going to change if I marry a law firm partner who makes 1M+/year. I do not need more money. If DH leaves me tomorrow, he would NOT have any problem finding someone who can make more than me. In terms of physical attractiveness, DH is a 12 out of 10.

Not true. He is older now and high earning women would not touch him.

[Anonymous]

Why does either of you need to be a breadwinner if you can each contribute?

(And yes I’m a parent)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin married the unambitious guy who while dating and before kids seemed like a great partner. He was good with kids, engaged and attentive, funny and a good time at social gatherings, and well liked all around. He had a decent job but did not have the desire to make more money or advance in his job. They talked about this and she was ok with it (at the time)

Fast forward 10 years. Turns out despite being good with kids he was not actually that good at fathering. He also slowly developed a video game addiction and some other socially acceptable habits become more addictions for him. She carried the labor or managing the household, finances and kids. His lack of ambition that was once just professional seemed to spread into all areas of his personal and home life.

His lack of ambition at work developed into a sort of indifference and lack of integrity about the work he did and there were professional problems too.

Cousin ended up divorced.

I say be cautious of the man with no professional ambitions. This is not the same as the man who has passion, determination and a solid work ethic but just happens to be in work that will never be particularly high paying. The lack of integrity around work actually reveals a lack of integrity as a person and I don’t think it will end well to have such a person as a partner in life.

+100

Agree, this is very well said. Despite your age, do not settle for this guy. If you’re concerned about fertility, maybe look into freezing your eggs.