stubborn senior declaring she would rather die falling at home than go into a nursing home

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mom is 70 and fine living by herself, but we had this conversation about nursing homes. She said she won't sign a health care POA and would rather make her own decisions even when she loses mental capacity and doesn't want to live in a nursing home under any circumstances. Having recently visited a relative with dementia in a nursing home, I get where she's coming from, but don't think staying at home is a great option for someone who should be in a nursing home. There's not money for assisted living or home health aides, unfortunately. We live in different states, and she doesn't want to move. What advice do you have for me?

I think she’s made her choice and it’s not an unreasonable one. At a certain point it’s likely better to die at home than linger for years in a nursing home.

[Anonymous]

Sigh. I mean, here's the thing - if a fall killed her, that would be one thing. The problem is, often it doesn't kill but severely disables and then it's harder to care for the person.

That said, don't fool yourself that she can't fall in assisted living or a nursing home. Those places are not well staffed and plenty of the staffers are not very good. I watched staffers once deliberately drop my great uncle's roommate because he was being slightly ornery. it was awful.

So...I am not entirely sure I disagree with your mom.

[Anonymous]

Let her d it e that way then. What will actually happen us that she will go to the hospital for something and when it’s time to be discharged, she won’t be able to go home alone and she will go to a nursing home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. I mean, here's the thing - if a fall killed her, that would be one thing. The problem is, often it doesn't kill but severely disables and then it's harder to care for the person.

That said, don't fool yourself that she can't fall in assisted living or a nursing home. Those places are not well staffed and plenty of the staffers are not very good. I watched staffers once deliberately drop my great uncle's roommate because he was being slightly ornery. it was awful.


So...I am not entirely sure I disagree with your mom.

At a certain point there are literally no good answers. IMO better to die three months too early than two years too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, at least you know what she wants.

My anti-vax aunt came down with Covid last year, and insisted she did not want to consult a doctor or go to the hospital. She died in her sleep several days into her Covid illness. My mother felt a lot of resentful against my aunt's husband, who did not call an ambulance. On the other hand my aunt was adamant.

You might have some hard decisions in the future, OP. Ask her every now and then, just to check she hasn't changed her mind.

Your mother can feel whatever she wants, but I certainly hope she didn't say anything to your uncle. Your aunt made her wishes known and they were respected. Assuming she isn't seriously mentally ill of cognitively impaired her wishes should be respected.

Have you seen what the end looks like for many? It's a pretty awful tortuous ordeal. May we all be so fortunate as to pass in our sleep when the time comes.

Yeah I mean I think she is a dumbass for not getting vaccinated but depending on how old she was, dying in her sleep rather than living in poor condition for years is kind of a toss up as to which was the better decision.

[Anonymous]

If I were 70 and in good health and my kids were already pressing me about nursing homes I’d be pissed too.

Jesus Christ, OP give it a rest. Circle back to her in a few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, at least you know what she wants.

My anti-vax aunt came down with Covid last year, and insisted she did not want to consult a doctor or go to the hospital. She died in her sleep several days into her Covid illness. My mother felt a lot of resentful against my aunt's husband, who did not call an ambulance. On the other hand my aunt was adamant.

You might have some hard decisions in the future, OP. Ask her every now and then, just to check she hasn't changed her mind.

Your mother can feel whatever she wants, but I certainly hope she didn't say anything to your uncle. Your aunt made her wishes known and they were respected. Assuming she isn't seriously mentally ill of cognitively impaired her wishes should be respected.

Have you seen what the end looks like for many? It's a pretty awful tortuous ordeal. May we all be so fortunate as to pass in our sleep when the time comes.

Yeah, except that there's history there. My aunt and her husband were estranged (because he's gay), and she only came to his house to nurse HIM through HIS covid bout, and then caught it herself and died. Then at the funeral, which I did not attend because all this happened in a European country and I live here in the States, apparently he had some not very nice words to say about his deceased wife.

So. My mother thinks he just let her die conveniently because he couldn't wait to get rid of her.
I'm not interfering in any way. There's just a lot to unpack there and I know it's hard on my mother.

[Anonymous]

I’ve had two elderly relatives fall in nursing homes, one of which resulted in a head injury and death before anyone found her. Most are understaffed and care is lacking. I won’t put my mother in one unless her medical needs are beyond what I can handle when the time comes.

[Anonymous]

That's not a "stubborn senior" thing, it's just a person stating their own wishes for their future. It may not turn out to be feasible ultimately, but at least your mother opened a conversation that you can continue. She's right in that many residential facilities for the elderly are very substandard and most people do not want to live in them. Try taking her seriously, understanding her concerns, discussing options with her when she's in the mood to talk about it, and introduce your own issues relating to this future scenario gradually and tactfully since they do not apply now so aren't urgent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who just put her recently diagnosed with Alzheimer's mom into Assisted living and did all of the POA stuff my advice is to have her buy long-term care insurance. It's more expensive at her age, but AL is incredibly expensive and it's so worth it.

FWIW, my mom did fall alone in her apartment and nearly died as a result. Fortunately, the neighbors heard her screaming. After an all day reconstructive surgery and a month and a half in hospital/rehab, my condition was that she go to AL in order to stay where she was living (she's also in another state and refused to move).
I had to do a lot of guilt tripping (you almost died- please don't put me through that again etc...) I was able to easily get her to sign a POA because it's far too confusing for her to manage her doctors appointments/ meds etc (2 or 3 years ago she would have thrown an absolute fit about it).
I wouldn't wish what we went through on anyone. For now, get your mom to buy long term care insurance and watch her closely for signs that she is struggling to care for herself (bruises from falls, memory issues etc). Things change.

I would not think lt care insurance is an option at 70. How much odes it cost a month?

[Anonymous]

Question: if your mom doesn't have any money, how would she pay for the nursing home? Unless you are thinking she needs to be in a Medicaid funded nursing home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm 70 and I agree with your mom.

I run the dogs, muck out the stables, and ride my horse 6 days a week and I will do a swan dive off a cliff into the ocean before I'll go to a nursing home.

Okay, have you actually figured out how this will work when the time comes? Because when you are old and approaching infirmary, you’ve not going to have a lot of options. Is there a cliff near you? Or have you hoarded enough heroin to OD on? You better time it so you can still administer it. Your kids aren’t going to want to help you kill yourself, and if they did, they’d be opening themselves up to murder charges. If you wait until you have a stroke or something and can’t do it yourself, you’re SOL.

Bottom line: This all sounds good in theory, and I hear healthy people say it all the time but “when the time comes I’ll jump off a cliff” is not a plan. If you’re serious, make a real plan, and if you’re not or it makes you too uncomfortable, you’re leaving your kids in the same boat as everyone else: trying to manage end of life care for someone who stubbornly says “no nursing home for me!” but has no alternative. And it’s a sh*tty place to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 70 and I agree with your mom.

I run the dogs, muck out the stables, and ride my horse 6 days a week and I will do a swan dive off a cliff into the ocean before I'll go to a nursing home.

Okay, have you actually figured out how this will work when the time comes? Because when you are old and approaching infirmary, you’ve not going to have a lot of options. Is there a cliff near you? Or have you hoarded enough heroin to OD on? You better time it so you can still administer it. Your kids aren’t going to want to help you kill yourself, and if they did, they’d be opening themselves up to murder charges. If you wait until you have a stroke or something and can’t do it yourself, you’re SOL.

Bottom line: This all sounds good in theory, and I hear healthy people say it all the time but “when the time comes I’ll jump off a cliff” is not a plan. If you’re serious, make a real plan, and if you’re not or it makes you too uncomfortable, you’re leaving your kids in the same boat as everyone else: trying to manage end of life care for someone who stubbornly says “no nursing home for me!” but has no alternative. And it’s a sh*tty place to be.

I'm younger, but my plan is to go to a doctor and complain about panic attacks to get a good anti-anxiety med, and combine that with a bottle of tequila and a bath. I guess if I can't get the anti-anxiety meds, then a bottle of Zz-quil would work. This just doesn't seem that complicated...famous people seem to do it all the time.

[Anonymous]

She's 70 so there is time to revisit this. Sounds like she's fine at home for now and she may not see the point in discussing all of it right now. I'm not saying I agree with that approach (I'm a planner) but a healthy 70 year old may have many years ahead of them.

We are currently dealing with this situation except it's my grandmother and she's 96. She lives alone in a close-knit community of (younger) friends who regularly get together to go to the pool, to dinner, card games, and church. They all take care of each other, and one of my uncles lives nearby and pops over to bring food and spend time with her. She's remarkably healthy for her age but she has fallen twice in the last 2 years and gotten pretty hurt both times (somehow avoided breaking any bones, so in her mind, she's "fine"). She is as stubborn and self-sufficient as they come but has FINALLY started to accept that she probably needs to go into assisted living. Ten years ago she would never have entertained the notion and steadfastly refused to wear a medical alert. It's really frustrating, but she wasn't ready to give up her freedom and her friends--and still isn't. She has gotten quite depressed at the thought of going into assisted living. Yet she also refuses to live with one of her children because she doesn't want to "burden" them. It's really hard--it's getting too difficult for her to live on her own and we all worry about her, and while she seems open to assisted living, I fear her will to live will be affected if she is no longer able to live life on her terms.

OP, I would revisit this issue with your mom every few years and certainly if a medical issue arises. Her feelings may change as she gets older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I were 70 and in good health and my kids were already pressing me about nursing homes I’d be pissed too.

Jesus Christ, OP give it a rest. Circle back to her in a few years.

Okay. If you had a stroke, or a fall and broke your hip, or some other catastrophic health event, you would be expecting to handle the time after discharge care and possibly needing assistance all on your own, is that right?

Because if the plan is to have your kids drop the rope on their lives and come figure things out for you, then they kind of have a right to ask a few questions about that in advance.