stubborn senior declaring she would rather die falling at home than go into a nursing home

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. I mean, here's the thing - if a fall killed her, that would be one thing. The problem is, often it doesn't kill but severely disables and then it's harder to care for the person.

That said, don't fool yourself that she can't fall in assisted living or a nursing home. Those places are not well staffed and plenty of the staffers are not very good. I watched staffers once deliberately drop my great uncle's roommate because he was being slightly ornery. it was awful.


So...I am not entirely sure I disagree with your mom.

At a certain point there are literally no good answers. IMO better to die three months too early than two years too late.

+a million! With healthcare as good as it is today, I have seen too many loved ones' bodies kept alive for far longer than they should have been. It is sad.

[Anonymous]

Here's what happens in most cases:

1. Senior refuses help.
2. Senior has a series of accidents, and suddenly realizes they need help.
3. Family has to scramble to find it.

The people who claim they'll kill themselves when the time comes, NEVER DO. As posters have said, it's psychologically very challenging to go through with such an act. Only extreme pain and despair makes people want to die, and this is why assisted suicide laws exist (or should exist).

It's so predictable it's laughable. OP and myself and countless others cannot force our parents to plan for the future. Also, WE OURSELVES are likely to end up feeling independent long after we shouldn't, just because it's what our human brains do. It's very hard to give up independence. Most of us will have to be convinced to give it up. Let's all hope we can be reasonable when the time comes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I guess my question is would you try to respect the wishes of someone who clearly would rather live at home against medical advice than go to a nursing home when the time comes? No one lives close enough to her to help out (including me), and there's no money for aides, assisted living or long term care insurance. She's unlikely to change her mind, and she definitely has all her faculties at the moment.

She brought up the subject after we visited a relative in a nursing home.

Of course I would respect their wishes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 70 and I agree with your mom.

I run the dogs, muck out the stables, and ride my horse 6 days a week and I will do a swan dive off a cliff into the ocean before I'll go to a nursing home.

Okay, have you actually figured out how this will work when the time comes? Because when you are old and approaching infirmary, you’ve not going to have a lot of options. Is there a cliff near you? Or have you hoarded enough heroin to OD on? You better time it so you can still administer it. Your kids aren’t going to want to help you kill yourself, and if they did, they’d be opening themselves up to murder charges. If you wait until you have a stroke or something and can’t do it yourself, you’re SOL.

Bottom line: This all sounds good in theory, and I hear healthy people say it all the time but “when the time comes I’ll jump off a cliff” is not a plan. If you’re serious, make a real plan, and if you’re not or it makes you too uncomfortable, you’re leaving your kids in the same boat as everyone else: trying to manage end of life care for someone who stubbornly says “no nursing home for me!” but has no alternative. And it’s a sh*tty place to be.

I'm younger, but my plan is to go to a doctor and complain about panic attacks to get a good anti-anxiety med, and combine that with a bottle of tequila and a bath. I guess if I can't get the anti-anxiety meds, then a bottle of Zz-quil would work. This just doesn't seem that complicated...famous people seem to do it all the time.

My sister is a psychiatrist and she has told me most people actually don't manage to die when the try to kill themselves using pills.

ANd many people who jump just wind up disbaling themselves.

It's actually pretty challenging to deliberately die.

This!! OMG, pills are the least successful means of suicide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 70 and I agree with your mom.

I run the dogs, muck out the stables, and ride my horse 6 days a week and I will do a swan dive off a cliff into the ocean before I'll go to a nursing home.

Okay, have you actually figured out how this will work when the time comes? Because when you are old and approaching infirmary, you’ve not going to have a lot of options. Is there a cliff near you? Or have you hoarded enough heroin to OD on? You better time it so you can still administer it. Your kids aren’t going to want to help you kill yourself, and if they did, they’d be opening themselves up to murder charges. If you wait until you have a stroke or something and can’t do it yourself, you’re SOL.

Bottom line: This all sounds good in theory, and I hear healthy people say it all the time but “when the time comes I’ll jump off a cliff” is not a plan. If you’re serious, make a real plan, and if you’re not or it makes you too uncomfortable, you’re leaving your kids in the same boat as everyone else: trying to manage end of life care for someone who stubbornly says “no nursing home for me!” but has no alternative. And it’s a sh*tty place to be.

I'm younger, but my plan is to go to a doctor and complain about panic attacks to get a good anti-anxiety med, and combine that with a bottle of tequila and a bath. I guess if I can't get the anti-anxiety meds, then a bottle of Zz-quil would work. This just doesn't seem that complicated...famous people seem to do it all the time.

My sister is a psychiatrist and she has told me most people actually don't manage to die when the try to kill themselves using pills.

ANd many people who jump just wind up disbaling themselves.

It's actually pretty challenging to deliberately die.

This thread is morbidly interesting. What about fentanyl? The warnings that just a speck can kill.

Do you know how to get fentanyl? I don’t.

Know someone who is dealing with major pain -- my BIL had fentanyl patches for end-stage cancer pain.

Or buy some meth on the street. Good chance it's laced with fentanyl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 70 and I agree with your mom.

I run the dogs, muck out the stables, and ride my horse 6 days a week and I will do a swan dive off a cliff into the ocean before I'll go to a nursing home.

Okay, have you actually figured out how this will work when the time comes? Because when you are old and approaching infirmary, you’ve not going to have a lot of options. Is there a cliff near you? Or have you hoarded enough heroin to OD on? You better time it so you can still administer it. Your kids aren’t going to want to help you kill yourself, and if they did, they’d be opening themselves up to murder charges. If you wait until you have a stroke or something and can’t do it yourself, you’re SOL.

Bottom line: This all sounds good in theory, and I hear healthy people say it all the time but “when the time comes I’ll jump off a cliff” is not a plan. If you’re serious, make a real plan, and if you’re not or it makes you too uncomfortable, you’re leaving your kids in the same boat as everyone else: trying to manage end of life care for someone who stubbornly says “no nursing home for me!” but has no alternative. And it’s a sh*tty place to be.

I'm younger, but my plan is to go to a doctor and complain about panic attacks to get a good anti-anxiety med, and combine that with a bottle of tequila and a bath. I guess if I can't get the anti-anxiety meds, then a bottle of Zz-quil would work. This just doesn't seem that complicated...famous people seem to do it all the time.

My sister is a psychiatrist and she has told me most people actually don't manage to die when the try to kill themselves using pills.

ANd many people who jump just wind up disbaling themselves.

It's actually pretty challenging to deliberately die.

This!! OMG, pills are the least successful means of suicide.

My mom was completely successful using pills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm 70 and I agree with your mom.

I run the dogs, muck out the stables, and ride my horse 6 days a week and I will do a swan dive off a cliff into the ocean before I'll go to a nursing home.

Okay, have you actually figured out how this will work when the time comes? Because when you are old and approaching infirmary, you’ve not going to have a lot of options. Is there a cliff near you? Or have you hoarded enough heroin to OD on? You better time it so you can still administer it. Your kids aren’t going to want to help you kill yourself, and if they did, they’d be opening themselves up to murder charges. If you wait until you have a stroke or something and can’t do it yourself, you’re SOL.

Bottom line: This all sounds good in theory, and I hear healthy people say it all the time but “when the time comes I’ll jump off a cliff” is not a plan. If you’re serious, make a real plan, and if you’re not or it makes you too uncomfortable, you’re leaving your kids in the same boat as everyone else: trying to manage end of life care for someone who stubbornly says “no nursing home for me!” but has no alternative. And it’s a sh*tty place to be.

I'm younger, but my plan is to go to a doctor and complain about panic attacks to get a good anti-anxiety med, and combine that with a bottle of tequila and a bath. I guess if I can't get the anti-anxiety meds, then a bottle of Zz-quil would work. This just doesn't seem that complicated...famous people seem to do it all the time.

My sister is a psychiatrist and she has told me most people actually don't manage to die when the try to kill themselves using pills.

ANd many people who jump just wind up disbaling themselves.

It's actually pretty challenging to deliberately die.

This!! OMG, pills are the least successful means of suicide.

But isn’t that because most people don’t take enough because they don’t really want to die? I did that once as a teen. I really don’t see how one could survive a bottle of sleeping pills with a large glass of tequila taken in a bath. Even if the pills didn’t work, seems like falling asleep in a bathtub would do it. I’ve seen people say OMG it’s not that easy but I really don’t understand how this could possibly fail. I feel like it would probably even work with about 15 shots of tequila. My moms in her 90s and I’ll support her as long as she wants but if she wanted to do this, I’d be fine with it. It’s not far off from how hospice killed my grandmother—they told us to take her off her heart medicine and just give her a ton of anti-anxiety meds.

But I ageee with PP the real problem is that most people aren’t rational and don’t make rational choices. I had another elderly relative in dementia who agreed to a life saving jintruaive surgery. I loved him a lot but thought it was a terrible idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She is 70. That’s not very old, OP.

My advice is to leave her alone and tend to the relationship.

No, OP is right.

You aren't going to KNOW the moment when you need POA. I started pressing my parents, mostly my mom because of my dad's progressing Parkinsons (meaning he is not able to be her poa for cognitive reasons) when she was in her early 70's. She finally did it around age 74 to make me poa for them both and her poa for him.

Less than two years later, I got the call that she was in the ambulance after a bad fall (dad fell with her and he also had to be hospitalized) and in an instant, I needed that POA and I'm so grateful I had it! As the child, I'm the one they called, I'm the one who the doctor asked about DNR for the hip surgery, I'm the one who had to get them placed in a rehab, I'm the one who had to pay their bills while they were in rehab for 6 weeks after so they would have power and water at home.I needed and used that POA then.

If OP's mom is not married (sounded like she wasn't) and OP is the one who would do those things, then yes, she needs to be made POA now. Mom can make it so that it is in effect if Mom is 'incapacitated' . That's what I have, my mom is mostly recovered now so she is Dad's poa right now and I'm not excercizing any poa at this time.

I’m guessing the OP’s mother isn’t feeling good about giving POA to OP. After all, OP frames this as “stubborn senior” and is saying “should I respect her wishes?” I mean, come on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were 70 and in good health and my kids were already pressing me about nursing homes I’d be pissed too.

Jesus Christ, OP give it a rest. Circle back to her in a few years.

Okay. If you had a stroke, or a fall and broke your hip, or some other catastrophic health event, you would be expecting to handle the time after discharge care and possibly needing assistance all on your own, is that right?

Because if the plan is to have your kids drop the rope on their lives and come figure things out for you, then they kind of have a right to ask a few questions about that in advance.

You sound like a real peach.

I do notice that you did not answer the question.

There’s nothing to answer. In my particular case, I got plenty of money to fund whatever care I need when I’m older. I also have a great relationship with my kids and don’t worry about any of this. But, should it turn out that nobody wants to help me out, well, then I guess I spend their inheritance.

[Anonymous]

Within 3 months of moving into assisted living, my parents had rewritten the history: It was their idea, always had been their idea and was a great idea. four adult children were very happy that they were so happy but they really had put us through it. Reasonable, loving people but I think elders are just usually very challenging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mom is 70 and fine living by herself, but we had this conversation about nursing homes. She said she won't sign a health care POA and would rather make her own decisions even when she loses mental capacity and doesn't want to live in a nursing home under any circumstances. Having recently visited a relative with dementia in a nursing home, I get where she's coming from, but don't think staying at home is a great option for someone who should be in a nursing home. There's not money for assisted living or home health aides, unfortunately. We live in different states, and she doesn't want to move. What advice do you have for me?

It is legal for her to live on her own. Let it go. Don't borrow troubles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mom is 70 and fine living by herself, but we had this conversation about nursing homes. She said she won't sign a health care POA and would rather make her own decisions even when she loses mental capacity and doesn't want to live in a nursing home under any circumstances. Having recently visited a relative with dementia in a nursing home, I get where she's coming from, but don't think staying at home is a great option for someone who should be in a nursing home. There's not money for assisted living or home health aides, unfortunately. We live in different states, and she doesn't want to move. What advice do you have for me?

i honored my moms wishes as much as i could until the state forced my hand. i let them stay at home out of state until their dementia (wandering, hallucinations) caused them to piss off the neighbors, who called adult protective services, who with the police hauled them to a hospital for evaluation, who declared that they could no longer live on their own and placed them in a nursing home.

fortunately i did have poa for my dad, so i was able to sell their house and get them moved to a better care facility near me.

[Anonymous]

Would she consider independent living in a senior community (55+)? My parents are still fairly healthy and independent but are starting to fail. We were able to convince them to move into an independent living community that can advance to assisted living if need be. It is by no means a nursing home. Those residents are way more active than a lot of middle aged people. Would she consider that? There are variations. It doesn't have to be home or nursing home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I were 70 and in good health and my kids were already pressing me about nursing homes I’d be pissed too.

Jesus Christ, OP give it a rest. Circle back to her in a few years.

Okay. If you had a stroke, or a fall and broke your hip, or some other catastrophic health event, you would be expecting to handle the time after discharge care and possibly needing assistance all on your own, is that right?

Because if the plan is to have your kids drop the rope on their lives and come figure things out for you, then they kind of have a right to ask a few questions about that in advance.

You sound like a real peach.

I do notice that you did not answer the question.

There’s nothing to answer. In my particular case, I got plenty of money to fund whatever care I need when I’m older. I also have a great relationship with my kids and don’t worry about any of this. But, should it turn out that nobody wants to help me out, well, then I guess I spend their inheritance.

Oh, you gave the answer, but you just didn't acknowledge it. The question was: "Okay. If you had a stroke, or a fall and broke your hip, or some other catastrophic health event, you would be expecting to handle the time after discharge care and possibly needing assistance all on your own, is that right?"

Your answer appears to be "That's right." Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I guess my question is would you try to respect the wishes of someone who clearly would rather live at home against medical advice than go to a nursing home when the time comes? No one lives close enough to her to help out (including me), and there's no money for aides, assisted living or long term care insurance. She's unlikely to change her mind, and she definitely has all her faculties at the moment.

She brought up the subject after we visited a relative in a nursing home.

Living in a long term care medicaid nursing home is horrible. Few places take the medicaid and there are so few caregivers needs don't get met and ripe for abuse. I'd rather drop dead. Watching my inlaw suffer for years in one was enough to convince me. Its easy when you've never been through it to think its ok but I'd rather be dead.