How do you drop the rope when you have SN kids?

[Anonymous]

I wish I knew you in real life so we could have coffee. Our situations sound similar except my DH doesn't seem to have the attitude yours does. I can imagine how infinitely worse it would be if he did.

I think you've got a couple of separate challenges - although there is a relationship between them:
1. How do you maintain your own well being while having a heavy load to carry
2. How to get your DH to be a better partner (notice, I didn't say, 'help', which implies it's YOUR responsibility instead of a shared one)

I agree with PPs that you need to shed those things that really don't really have to be done or that don't bring you value. For me, one of them was letting go of household standards. I still needed to have the kitchen and bathrooms clean but reduced the frequency that the floors were swept/mopped and furniture dusted. Another was I reduced my efforts to fix healthy meals and eat together. I let go of the guilt in putting the TV on so the kids could watch while I did something else. I did what was convenient and lightened my load. My kids ate a lot of nuggets, oatmeal, broccoli, spaghetti, etc. I continued to do those things that were 'for me'. Reading the newspaper first thing in the morning with a cup of coffee even though I had to get up 20 minutes earlier. Going for at least a 20 minute walk after the kids were in bed and listen to an audiobook. I didn't like what I had to do but, well, it's what I had to do.

As far as getting your DH to be a better partner, I really think this is something you should work out in counseling. From what you've said, I don't think it's something you can do on your own. My DH works well from a list (that I have to provide, of course) and recognizes how much more I do than he does but he still didn't get just how overwhelmed I was, how I really was drowning. Our relationship took a real hit because he was not being a partner and his obliviousness was crushing me. It was especially tough for us because we were financially unstable. Yet, I knew financially we'd be worse if we divorced. I had to spend money to save some money.

I'm further down the road than you are and, in many ways, life is a lot easier. While the burdens aren't as heavy, carrying a sustained load (even though it may have lightened) can crush you much as a much heavier one. It just takes longer to get smash. You need to develop supports early on. Don't take on the burden of doing it yourself, enlist a counselor. Hugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP - so you just do everything? How do you deal with the resentment and stay married? He told me the other day he’s so proud that he’s an amazing husband and father and I just stood there stunned that his bar for himself is apparently on the floor. I have contemplated divorce in the past but won’t because of the kids. I have told him multiple times how unfair I find all of this and how lonely and I guess he thinks that’s fine?

He gets this message outside the home - the bar IS low for men to be "good fathers" - they have to not leave and they win.

If I was you I would have started crying when he said that and explained that I'm drowning.

And, I did drop the rope with my SN kid. I'm not married to his dad, but my son moved to live with his dad who doesn't believe he has SN. I couldn't handle the co-parenting conflict anymore because it was seriously affecting my mental health (and on the advice of my therapist, took care of me by letting my child go). My child receives some of the required treatments, but not all, and he is unlikely to ever live fully independently, even though he could with the right supports.

I may regret allowing the change sometime in the future, but I don't right now. I couldn't do it anymore, it was going to kill me.

11:24 here. I wish I knew you, too, so we could have coffee. I'd definitely give you a hug. I know it's easy for me to say but you really do have to accept that you do the best you can at the time. Sure, we can ALL do better but at what cost? Your mental health should not be it. Hugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP - so you just do everything? How do you deal with the resentment and stay married? He told me the other day he’s so proud that he’s an amazing husband and father and I just stood there stunned that his bar for himself is apparently on the floor. I have contemplated divorce in the past but won’t because of the kids. I have told him multiple times how unfair I find all of this and how lonely and I guess he thinks that’s fine?

I’d be quick to call out this BS. I like the PPs idea of color coding everything. I’d also give him one job—make it a good one. Like following up on insurance claims. You know where you’re on hold for 45min and they finally pick up just as you are starting a meeting at work. I’d tell him what needs to happen with a deadline and the consequence of it not happening. Then I’d give him the stack of papers and let him know I’ll check in with him next week. It sucks but I’d manage him like I manage my staff.

At the very least I’d want acknowledgment of all that I do. I’d want to drive home the point that it is mentally taxing, tedious, and requires keeping track of multiple things. One thing I like to ask is if I was hit by a car tomorrow how would you continue to support our child. If the answer is I don’t know then he needs to step up and be a parent to his kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP - so you just do everything? How do you deal with the resentment and stay married? He told me the other day he’s so proud that he’s an amazing husband and father and I just stood there stunned that his bar for himself is apparently on the floor. I have contemplated divorce in the past but won’t because of the kids. I have told him multiple times how unfair I find all of this and how lonely and I guess he thinks that’s fine?

If you have already contemplated divorce, then you probably have a lot of large issues. And this equity issue is just a symptom of larger disrespect, etc. So, I think this is tough to navigate when you likely have larger issues.

That said, we outsource A LOT. If you can afford it, throw money at the problem. If you are shuffling kids to every therapy appointment, let a sitter do that. You go once a month or every six weeks to hear what is going on. If more medical stuff, we gave a healthcare POA to our nanny. Our kid did 16 months of chemo. We went for chemo, but the finger pricks on Week 1 and 3 were never very important and she handled them. We kept a nanny through all of elementary to handle a ton of this stuff. She cooked, etc while
Kids were at school. She made phone calls, filled out paperwork, etc.

What does your husband say when you discuss this? Does he even see an issue? Do you copy him on every email, text, etc? I have a husband who does a ton of the doing while I handle the planning. He is on copy for EVERYTHING so my work has a not invisible to him. “Oh, I spent an hour filling out paperwork today for Kid 1” is part of my description when he asks “how was your day?” He definitely sometimes feels he does more — cleaning, changing diapers, etc. He isn’t exactly wrong. And I then smile and say “and what about that magical fairy who makes your life comfortable and easy without you even knowing it” and we both either laugh or roll our eyes (depending on the day) and move on.

Our one truly major issue was overnight wakeups. I was really miserable about this for 18 months —
Note that our child will never, ever sleep through the night so my 18 month period started after she was 8 years old. I was taking the bulk of them and he just could not see that he had to step up. So, I told him I was going to rent a studio to sleep in every other night and started apartment hunting. I wasn’t going to be mad anymore, didn’t want to separate, etc. I wanted to sleep. And I could not at our house. When he saw I was serious, we went to an every other night schedule.

[Anonymous]

I dropped the rope on everything that wasn’t important - things either didn’t get done, got outsourced or got done at a much lower quality - food shopping, cooking, cleaning, house, etc.

I also stopped doing things for DH - except for making family dinner - his laundry, anything to do with his car, his administrative life, his family and friends, his career, etc. I only kept on top of his finances to the extent that it was a joint obligation - house payment, bill paying account, taxes. The rest, I kept an eye on so it wouldn’t sink me.

I realized that DH was never going to be reliable about anything, so I kept the things I cared about that would have a long term impact on my well-being - the kids medical care, diagnoses and therapy, their education, and their social relationships. I did not consult or inform DH about any of that. I just did what I thought was right.

I maintained my own family relationships, some core friendships and some semblance of paid work, although not my original career, which was impossible under the circumstances. Whatever support, encouragement and happiness I needed I sought and received it from friends and family, not him.

It was not at all the life or family I imagined for myself. It is unfair, but life isn’t fair.

Ultimately, I severed pretty much my entire relationship with their Dad over time - first divorcing, then by MS/HS years cutting way back on coparenting and moving to a parallel parenting model with limited in person contact that pretty much consisted of grey-rocking. I ended up with de facto full physical custody. I did not invest any energy in his relationship with the kids - that was his job. What he put in, he got out. I didn’t want to divorce, but, I mean, who wants to live like that? - I would rather be alone than have to live with a partner who contributes so little and is a loose cannon that could bring me down at any time. It was like living under the sword of Damocles.

FWIW, the kids learned how to manage their SNs and are in reasonably successful in college and the workplace. I don’t believe that would have happened had I stayed with their Dad or devoted any more energy to him. They have a somewhat positive relationship with their Dad, but his neglect of them and of his parenting responsibilities made a (negative) impression on them. I know he thinks of himself as a great Dad, but, sadly, it’s clear to me that the kids realized he was irresponsible and neglectful.

At various times the kids and I have had individual therapy, which has been helpful for all of us.

Dropping the rope was the best of the (all bad) choices available. Sometimes that’s our job - to make the least worst choice when there are no good choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree, cut anything unnecessary and outsource what you can.

The most important thing for my mental health, is deciding that I was not going to divorce my husband over the unequal workload and therefore resentment over it is counterproductive. It’s his complete inability to see the amount of mental work that goes into coordinating everything that drives me crazy. I acknowledge it to myself and then move on. In practice, sometimes my resentment bubbles out and I pick a fight, but that’s only like 3-4 times a year. When the kids were younger, I could feel us slipping into an affectionless marriage, and I didn’t want that.

I try to set up regular appointments in the late afternoons early evenings where either of us can cover. And set up a routine where my husband is the default for some of them. Since he genuinely thinks that he does an equal share of the parenting, I gently point out that having me cover 80% of appointments is not fair, and he’ll step up.

I keep every appointment on my calendar, even if he says that he’s going to cover it. If I absolutely need him to cover something, I remind him relentlessly. We have a shared electronic calendar I put everything into it.

Finally, I have totally mommy-tracked my job. I’m lucky that I can flex around appointments were needed. I have also been here long enough that I have leave to burn when I don’t have the energy to flex my time.

This is OP - thank you for writing. I think I have tried to take this approach (divorce is not really an option, and not what I want) most of the time. I have my weaknesses, of course, though I try to do what I can to work on them so they don’t affect the people I love). I think at the moment I am intellectually aware that we are at a difficult and intense period that won’t remain this bad (went through something similar when my oldest was being diagnosed, but diagnoses are very different so there’s a ton that’s new). I’m trying to keep myself from doing something I will regret later like quitting my job since I also have a mommy tracked job, that I like and is important to me and I have spent years proving myself to the point I CAN get away with just disappearing on people the way I do. At one point a few years ago during a similar low point I felt tempted to cheat for honesty the only time in my life. I felt ignored and unimportant to my husband and someone attractive at work was giving me a lot of attention. It was terrifying even though I intellectually understood what was happening and I don’t really think I would ever have done anything. But honestly I periodically get reminded that there are apparently limits to what I can accept.

This mostly plays out when he does something unrelated but infuriating and I lose my shit - maybe this is what your 3-4 times a year fight looks like too. Recently he made two decisions in rapid succession that affected me and the kids without consulting me and he basically defended himself by saying that it wasn’t malicious, he just didn’t think about me at all when he made those decisions (despite being things I have very much had an opinion on in the past). And I started to wonder if my acceptance of doing everything is sending more of a signal that I will just go along with whatever he does in general which I am not ok with.

So I am not sure just accepting this is how it’s going to be and losing it a couple times a year is a good plan. But the few times I have made a stink and spent energy on it nothing changes. Or he’s like ok spend a ton of time figuring out how to make something easy and not in anyway inconvenient and of course I’ll do it. And that makes me want to throw things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP - so you just do everything? How do you deal with the resentment and stay married? He told me the other day he’s so proud that he’s an amazing husband and father and I just stood there stunned that his bar for himself is apparently on the floor. I have contemplated divorce in the past but won’t because of the kids. I have told him multiple times how unfair I find all of this and how lonely and I guess he thinks that’s fine?

What do you mean by everything? Coordinating school, medical appointments and therapy while I’m working. Yes. And like you, my husband occasionally takes our SN or NT kid to an appointment but it’s rare. I had lots of resentment for years and then we had a few major situations in the teen years that threw us into crisis mode. I kind of realized how I want to be the one with the primary control on all of this. While I want him helping more, it’s really hard when you aren’t at something, you don’t know what’s going on and you are trying to give an update to determine if hospitalization is needed.

So you do what you can, you let a lot slide, outsource everything you can afford and realize some things can be let go and life will be okay.

I think I suck at outsourcing. I have tried a variety of things and they just don’t work. I can’t seem to find a way to send out laundry that works and stuff comes back ok. We’ve tried a couple times. I have tried getting more child care but it’s such a struggle to get one child to accept a new caregiver that they tend to be unwilling to work through it. I have at times hired babysitters for the one child who will tolerate it. I should do that more now that both kids have a ton going on. But it doesn’t help with the random appointment at 11:15 on a Wednesday 30 minutes away that gets scheduled because one kid needs an urgent adjustment to medical equipment and you have to take the first appointment you can get. It’s that stuff that’s killing me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP - so you just do everything? How do you deal with the resentment and stay married? He told me the other day he’s so proud that he’s an amazing husband and father and I just stood there stunned that his bar for himself is apparently on the floor. I have contemplated divorce in the past but won’t because of the kids. I have told him multiple times how unfair I find all of this and how lonely and I guess he thinks that’s fine?

I’d be quick to call out this BS. I like the PPs idea of color coding everything. I’d also give him one job—make it a good one. Like following up on insurance claims. You know where you’re on hold for 45min and they finally pick up just as you are starting a meeting at work. I’d tell him what needs to happen with a deadline and the consequence of it not happening. Then I’d give him the stack of papers and let him know I’ll check in with him next week. It sucks but I’d manage him like I manage my staff.

At the very least I’d want acknowledgment of all that I do. I’d want to drive home the point that it is mentally taxing, tedious, and requires keeping track of multiple things. One thing I like to ask is if I was hit by a car tomorrow how would you continue to support our child. If the answer is I don’t know then he needs to step up and be a parent to his kid.

So I laughed when I read this because this is one of the things I have asked him to do. Guess what? It just doesn’t happen. We have not been reimbursed thousands and thousands of dollars we are entitled to. Because we are comfortable financially and it doesn’t actually affect the kids I just try not to think about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP - so you just do everything? How do you deal with the resentment and stay married? He told me the other day he’s so proud that he’s an amazing husband and father and I just stood there stunned that his bar for himself is apparently on the floor. I have contemplated divorce in the past but won’t because of the kids. I have told him multiple times how unfair I find all of this and how lonely and I guess he thinks that’s fine?

Have sex with him. Wait six weeks. Congratulate yourself on how you keep your sex life amazing? And how lucky he is? lol maybe not!

But I would say to him you are a good dad but I don’t think you realize how much I am carrying and it is really weighing me down. I can’t keep up this much longer. There’s more things I need your help with. Have a list of things that are concrete that he could do to make your life easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP - so you just do everything? How do you deal with the resentment and stay married? He told me the other day he’s so proud that he’s an amazing husband and father and I just stood there stunned that his bar for himself is apparently on the floor. I have contemplated divorce in the past but won’t because of the kids. I have told him multiple times how unfair I find all of this and how lonely and I guess he thinks that’s fine?

I’d be quick to call out this BS. I like the PPs idea of color coding everything. I’d also give him one job—make it a good one. Like following up on insurance claims. You know where you’re on hold for 45min and they finally pick up just as you are starting a meeting at work. I’d tell him what needs to happen with a deadline and the consequence of it not happening. Then I’d give him the stack of papers and let him know I’ll check in with him next week. It sucks but I’d manage him like I manage my staff.

At the very least I’d want acknowledgment of all that I do. I’d want to drive home the point that it is mentally taxing, tedious, and requires keeping track of multiple things. One thing I like to ask is if I was hit by a car tomorrow how would you continue to support our child. If the answer is I don’t know then he needs to step up and be a parent to his kid.

So I laughed when I read this because this is one of the things I have asked him to do. Guess what? It just doesn’t happen. We have not been reimbursed thousands and thousands of dollars we are entitled to. Because we are comfortable financially and it doesn’t actually affect the kids I just try not to think about it.

I thought that too. Men need straightforward tasks. They aren’t good at multithreaded complex much like sorting out insurance claims. Honestly, neither are a lot of women. Most people just pay insurance companies what they want because it’s such a hassle. I got so sick of this I changed healthcare systems to university ones that are usually have better billing practices.

Anyway, give you husband simple, straightforward tasks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You may need to think about what your priorities are here. Do you want acknowledgment of the work you do, or do you need to do less work? Or something else?

Until our child's diagnosis, I definitely had the 'big career' in our family. We earned about the same amount, but I was in the high-prestige job that had required us to move to DC in the first place, required regular travel, etc. My husband is in a well-compensated industry, but had prioritized work-life balance over chasing fancy jobs. We'd definitely prioritized my career in our family choices.

Now, several years after diagnosis, I am in the same job, but have leaned way out. I won't get fired, but I'm not going to get promoted anytime soon either. I've scaled my career ambitions way, way down. Meanwhile, my husband did a job search and increased his comp by 50%. We've used that money to hire a full time nanny who also functions as a house manager while my kid is in school. This means that, even though I'm definitely doing more of the household & childcare stuff (for example, I am the one who attends all the medical appointments), it's manageable because I can delegate a fair amount of stuff to our nanny (for example, she takes our kid to therapy appointments that don't require parental involvement).

Frankly, this is not the life that either of us would have picked. If it worked financial, we'd both have preferred for my husband to scale back instead. But given our career paths, I was never going to earn enough money to be able to afford the help we need.

Anyway, this is a long way of saying that I think you just have to be very pragmatic about what options are available to you, and what your priorities are. If it's acknowledgment, then maybe couples counseling could help. If you need help, then you may need to let the acknowledgment go and focus on pragmatic steps to lessen the workload, which may not look like your husband actually stepping up.

This was us. I had the ambitious career which was curtailed by having a SN baby. I tried to go back to work but DH asked me not too. He laid out his plan to replace my income so I wouldn’t have to work again.

It was a few rough years. I had hard feelings about walking away from my career. But the plan worked and we are satisfied with it. It’s not what either of us wanted and we had to deal with those feelings too. We eventually adapted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP - so you just do everything? How do you deal with the resentment and stay married? He told me the other day he’s so proud that he’s an amazing husband and father and I just stood there stunned that his bar for himself is apparently on the floor. I have contemplated divorce in the past but won’t because of the kids. I have told him multiple times how unfair I find all of this and how lonely and I guess he thinks that’s fine?

I’d be quick to call out this BS. I like the PPs idea of color coding everything. I’d also give him one job—make it a good one. Like following up on insurance claims. You know where you’re on hold for 45min and they finally pick up just as you are starting a meeting at work. I’d tell him what needs to happen with a deadline and the consequence of it not happening. Then I’d give him the stack of papers and let him know I’ll check in with him next week. It sucks but I’d manage him like I manage my staff.

At the very least I’d want acknowledgment of all that I do. I’d want to drive home the point that it is mentally taxing, tedious, and requires keeping track of multiple things. One thing I like to ask is if I was hit by a car tomorrow how would you continue to support our child. If the answer is I don’t know then he needs to step up and be a parent to his kid.

So I laughed when I read this because this is one of the things I have asked him to do. Guess what? It just doesn’t happen. We have not been reimbursed thousands and thousands of dollars we are entitled to. Because we are comfortable financially and it doesn’t actually affect the kids I just try not to think about it.

If you can afford to not worry about thousands in reimbursement, you need to figure out outsourcing. You need to hire a wife — this is what I did. I’m the poster that kept a nanny for years and years. Pay a premium and pay for full time even if you only have 20 hours of work a week for them. Teach them all the particulars of how you want your laundry done, errands run, etc. It will be worth the up front time you spend on training. They can be there even when you are there as a second set of hands.

[Anonymous]

I am a woman in a same-sex relationship, and I compassionately say that I would never stand for this crap. Speak up for what you want! You wrote:

And I started to wonder if my acceptance of doing everything is sending more of a signal that I will just go along with whatever he does in general which I am not ok with.

__
I would tell him you want to have a sit-down and be very specific with him about what you want. Imagine you're guiding an employee at work. Tell him how his non-work affects you and the specific things you want to see changed and that you'll be sitting down with him in 3 weeks for a check-in. Say that your mental health is really suffering and you need this from him, and so does your kid(s). Ask him if he sees any barriers in the things you're asking him to do. Affirm that he's great in some areas but there are areas where you need help.

I would not sacrifice my life to someone else's misperception of theirs. I don't want you to, either.

[Anonymous]

I’m wondering how many PP have a spouse who works considerably more than 40 hours a week? If so (and they are really in need of 8 hours of sleep a night to not be horrible to be around, does that change your answer? He’s mostly working and asking how high whenever anyone senior says jump. I strongly suspect he could get away with less but obviously suggestions to that effect have not been well taken. He is also unwilling to apply for other jobs where things would be significantly better (because he will not do anything that could be seen as a step down in prestige). So he always says he’s busy and maybe he is. However he will find time to waste on some random house project that was bothering only him if he wants to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP - so you just do everything? How do you deal with the resentment and stay married? He told me the other day he’s so proud that he’s an amazing husband and father and I just stood there stunned that his bar for himself is apparently on the floor. I have contemplated divorce in the past but won’t because of the kids. I have told him multiple times how unfair I find all of this and how lonely and I guess he thinks that’s fine?

I’d be quick to call out this BS. I like the PPs idea of color coding everything. I’d also give him one job—make it a good one. Like following up on insurance claims. You know where you’re on hold for 45min and they finally pick up just as you are starting a meeting at work. I’d tell him what needs to happen with a deadline and the consequence of it not happening. Then I’d give him the stack of papers and let him know I’ll check in with him next week. It sucks but I’d manage him like I manage my staff.

At the very least I’d want acknowledgment of all that I do. I’d want to drive home the point that it is mentally taxing, tedious, and requires keeping track of multiple things. One thing I like to ask is if I was hit by a car tomorrow how would you continue to support our child. If the answer is I don’t know then he needs to step up and be a parent to his kid.

So I laughed when I read this because this is one of the things I have asked him to do. Guess what? It just doesn’t happen. We have not been reimbursed thousands and thousands of dollars we are entitled to. Because we are comfortable financially and it doesn’t actually affect the kids I just try not to think about it.

I thought that too. Men need straightforward tasks. They aren’t good at multithreaded complex much like sorting out insurance claims. Honestly, neither are a lot of women. Most people just pay insurance companies what they want because it’s such a hassle. I got so sick of this I changed healthcare systems to university ones that are usually have better billing practices.

Anyway, give you husband simple, straightforward tasks.

Can you give examples? I would find that really helpful. They can’t need to be done during the workday (or before 7 really)