I'm amazed by all the "social engineering" on here

[Anonymous]

^^^ involved not invoke

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The invite everyone poster is off her rocker.
We’re not “open to growth”? Lady, you must have a rough time in life.

There is no invite everyone poster .

There are people saying leaving 1 person from s group out on purpose is rude.

There are people saying purposeful social isolation is wrong.

Just because they don't include someone doesn't make it purpose social isolation. If they proactively try to get someone excluded when someone else wants to include them, then that's purposeful social isolation. I have a teen who isn't always included. One of my best friend's DD is in the same grade as my DD and they are in classes together. Her DD is socially "popular" but doesn't include my DD despite knowing her for years. That doesn't upset me. They've had plenty of opportunities to be around each other and they don't really bond. I know if I ask my friend to include my DD she would, but as we can't force her DD to actually click with my DD, it would just be awkward for all invoked. I didnt get invited to things in high school and managed to turn out just fine. I wasn't like the other kids. I didn't know how to make small talk and just wasn't good at interacting in social settings. Why is that someone else's responsibility? We all want to protect our kids and give them the best life, but we shouldn't expect others to include someone they don't really get along with. If your child feels loved within your family, you've given them a great foundation to deal with not being included.

This is a very rational and normal post. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was growing up our parents did not care who you liked or did not like, you invited everybody and you did not leave somebody out. You got over it and learned to be a gracious host.

You can't invite everyone. I'm sure you are exaggerating and left people out. Or were you inviting over 200 people to your parties?

There were not 200 girls in my class, there were 30 kids so 15 girls.

In high school, sure there were groups but everybody had a group. If there was a girls without a "group" somebody brought her into the fold. Nobody had nowhere to go on Halloween or on the weekends.

I went to a school with 100 girls per grade though.

What you describe is not the norm--there are always people who are outside of social groups. Was this a deeply evangelical Christian community where you lived, where everyone needs to be saved perhaps?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was growing up our parents did not care who you liked or did not like, you invited everybody and you did not leave somebody out. You got over it and learned to be a gracious host.

You can't invite everyone. I'm sure you are exaggerating and left people out. Or were you inviting over 200 people to your parties?

There were not 200 girls in my class, there were 30 kids so 15 girls.

In high school, sure there were groups but everybody had a group. If there was a girls without a "group" somebody brought her into the fold. Nobody had nowhere to go on Halloween or on the weekends.

I went to a school with 100 girls per grade though.

What you describe is not the norm--there are always people who are outside of social groups. Was this a deeply evangelical Christian community where you lived, where everyone needs to be saved perhaps?

God no. I guess we were just nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
While some parents make mountains out of molehills, you need to remember that there are some manipulative teens out there, and also that this isn't your generation - this one is dealing with the reverb effects of social media, which is merciless because it shows all the other people having fun without you. Adults suffer from this as well.

This. The PP is right.

OP, I'm older (kid in college) and while I agree with you that some DCUM posters seem to go too far in wringing their hands over specific invitations sometimes...there are also other interactions and more serious exclusions that today can turn far more damaging than back in the day when spats or BFF dramas could just die out over a comparatively short time, or manipulative teens/tweens would just move on to another thing. Now, social media can keep drama alive, spread it to a nearly school-wide circle of kids, and amplify its effects greatly. Parents need to be aware of this and not dismiss it.

What’s bonkers is that parents spend a huge mount of time dealing with issues that are caused by or at least exacerbated by social media instead of doing the actual parenting of not giving their kids smartphones. There truly is NO REASON your teen needs a smart phone or social media. None.

I would rather my kids learn how to use social media properly rather than take it away completely and I think that’s good parenting.

Agree 100%.

I get a kick out of the “there is absolutely no reason to have a smartphone or social media! None!” people. How about communication? Social interaction? Keeping up with their friends? Watching videos for FUN (oh, the horror!)? My daughter uses hers as her alarm. And a phone to call her friends. And to text. And to check out her friends Instagram. And to look up fun art projects. And to binge watch Friends on Netflix.

You may not like the reasons, but that’s on you. There are plenty of reasons in this day and age to have a smartphone and social media. I just monitor my daughters phone when necessary and talk about stuff that comes up as needed.

You do realize that they can do these things on your phone. Or many of them on an ipad that is used only at home/under supervision or on a home computer, again supervised. Or They don't need THEIR OWN PHONE to do these things.

Right. Because I want to give my phone to my kids (I have 2 - I can’t imaging the fights over my phone) to my kids for hours at a time. Or have them fight over our 1 home computer because my 13 year old wants to listen to her music but my 10 year old is playing a video game.

Like I said - there are valid reasons for kids to have smartphones - you just don’t like them.

LOL, no. I just think they are bad reasons, or not actually reasons. You don't know how to manage your kids and your children don't know how to go through life without being an entitled ass if they fight over the phone, video games, music, etc. I can only imagine how your kid will react if they have a roommate at college.

Your children can have a great social life and be safe with a phone that makes calls and texts. We all go through without smartphones and they can too. And yes, of course your children will be exposed to harmful things when you're not around... the difference is that they won't have access 24/7 to a device that is bad for their mental health. They can't turn it off. Just look at the adults walking around heads buried in their phones while life goes on around them. When I go to a show, 50% of people are experiencing the thing through their phones. I mean, WTF. WAKE UP! Let your children live life with eyes wide open to the world around them! Don't give them a portal for bullies and pedos. You're spoiling your children.

+1

The parents who say their kid will miss out on socializing if they don't give them a phone...you are part of the reason for that. You give in to this new idea that "kids these days" have to socialize using a phone. No, they don't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The invite everyone poster is off her rocker.
We’re not “open to growth”? Lady, you must have a rough time in life.

There is no invite everyone poster .

There are people saying leaving 1 person from s group out on purpose is rude.

There are people saying purposeful social isolation is wrong.

Just because they don't include someone doesn't make it purpose social isolation. If they proactively try to get someone excluded when someone else wants to include them, then that's purposeful social isolation. I have a teen who isn't always included. One of my best friend's DD is in the same grade as my DD and they are in classes together. Her DD is socially "popular" but doesn't include my DD despite knowing her for years. That doesn't upset me. They've had plenty of opportunities to be around each other and they don't really bond. I know if I ask my friend to include my DD she would, but as we can't force her DD to actually click with my DD, it would just be awkward for all invoked. I didnt get invited to things in high school and managed to turn out just fine. I wasn't like the other kids. I didn't know how to make small talk and just wasn't good at interacting in social settings. Why is that someone else's responsibility? We all want to protect our kids and give them the best life, but we shouldn't expect others to include someone they don't really get along with. If your child feels loved within your family, you've given them a great foundation to deal with not being included.

We are not talking about that situation. If you daughter and she played BB together and she invited the whole team except your daughter that would be rude.

Most people don’t cross pollinate their social groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the parents who get involved in social engineering are the ones who have kids who struggle socially. It’s all fine and good to not mind if your kids get excluded if your kids have tons of friends otherwise. It’s a different story when your kid isn’t liked too much. It hurts—both your child and you. Parents just want to help their children.

That’s fine for elementary school, but by the time they are teenagers parents need to step back.

+1

DP.
And for some kids, when they're teens the parents need to pay more attention, not less, and listen even more carefully, and be more observant during middle and high school.

I'm not talking about arranging a teen's social life or asking others to include a teen in some activity etc.

I'm talking about knowing your own child well enough that you know whether he or she is struggling. So many DCUM posters say to step back when they hit middle and high school. Of course they need to navigate most things themselves--but if they aren't talking to you about their lives at all, there may be bigger issues going on. Issues a teen should not have to try to deal with alone.

So much "advice" here is generalized yet presented as stern gospel truth. Step away or your teen is bring coddled! How about: Know your kid and have a relationship where your kid will talk to you in the teen years.

My friend who is a school counselor says she despairs over parents who think HS is the time to check out in the name of "not bring a helicopter parent."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the parents who get involved in social engineering are the ones who have kids who struggle socially. It’s all fine and good to not mind if your kids get excluded if your kids have tons of friends otherwise. It’s a different story when your kid isn’t liked too much. It hurts—both your child and you. Parents just want to help their children.

That’s fine for elementary school, but by the time they are teenagers parents need to step back.

+1

DP.
And for some kids, when they're teens the parents need to pay more attention, not less, and listen even more carefully, and be more observant during middle and high school.

I'm not talking about arranging a teen's social life or asking others to include a teen in some activity etc.

I'm talking about knowing your own child well enough that you know whether he or she is struggling. So many DCUM posters say to step back when they hit middle and high school. Of course they need to navigate most things themselves--but if they aren't talking to you about their lives at all, there may be bigger issues going on. Issues a teen should not have to try to deal with alone.

So much "advice" here is generalized yet presented as stern gospel truth. Step away or your teen is bring coddled! How about: Know your kid and have a relationship where your kid will talk to you in the teen years.

My friend who is a school counselor says she despairs over parents who think HS is the time to check out in the name of "not bring a helicopter parent."

No one is suggesting that parents don't listen to their children or be attentive at home. That's different from actively getting involved in a tween/teen's social life, engineering their interactions or disparaging other kids/their parents as mean, simply because natural friend groups are forming and changing and evolving.

[Anonymous]

To summarize all the posts:

parents of kids who are left out feel:

-kids who don’t always include all other friends are mean and their parents are also mean;

- it is okay for a left out kid to ask to join an already planned get together


u]parents of kids who are not left out feel: [/u]

- kids can elect who to invite somewhere when their family or kid is planning the event and this isn’t mean or exclusionary but more a preference who to hang out with

- by the 6th grade + timeframe, kids largely plan their social activities and parents don’t need to micromanage.

That’s it in a nutshell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why do you care? If you don’t want to read it, then don’t read it.
I’ve asked questions on here. It doesn’t mean I’m obsessed about it. I like to see others point of view on situations.

Because it's really weird! I'm curious about how these people justify such weird behavior to themselves. You know you are making things worse when you reach out to the other parents right?

The type of people who are raising mean girls and bullies are most likely not going to be responsive to your concerns.

Except sometimes kids are treated poorly by kids who are just kids, not sociopaths. When my son started MS he made friends easily. His buddy starting the same school did not, and in fact turned a lot of kids off with his behavior. It all kept escalating until there was unkindness on both sides. It did not help at first when his parents stepped in and started accusing everyone else of bullying, but it did slowly open the door to some honest conversations between adults and between kids and adults that were helpful. The adults did a little social engineering (like a small group was strongly encouraged to hang out with this kid, go to his birthday, etc., my son was encouraged to give him space) and I think the boy saw a counselor a few times though Im not sure. By the start of the next year a lot of the social conflict has was gone and friendships were formed.

I don’t think without adult involvement the toxic pattern would have ended so positively. The kid needed help to change his behavior and the “friend group” needed help to be a little more inclusive and understanding. All the grown ups involved had compassion about the situation.

Wow - that is wonderful.

[Anonymous]

Agree 100%.

I get a kick out of the “there is absolutely no reason to have a smartphone or social media! None!” people. How about communication? Social interaction? Keeping up with their friends? Watching videos for FUN (oh, the horror!)? My daughter uses hers as her alarm. And a phone to call her friends. And to text. And to check out her friends Instagram. And to look up fun art projects. And to binge watch Friends on Netflix.

You may not like the reasons, but that’s on you. There are plenty of reasons in this day and age to have a smartphone and social media. I just monitor my daughters phone when necessary and talk about stuff that comes up as needed.

How old is your daughter? At sixteen, maybe. At eleven and twelve? Unnecessary. My 12yo daughter has an actual alarm. She calls her friend on our landline which we got for that purpose. She creates art projects that she thinks up using her own imagination, and she watches Netflix on a real television. She doesn’t text except from my phone occasionally and she doesn’t look at her friends’ Instagrams which is good because they shouldn’t even have them.

Your reasons why your child needs a smartphone are ridiculous. She doesn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Agree 100%.

I get a kick out of the “there is absolutely no reason to have a smartphone or social media! None!” people. How about communication? Social interaction? Keeping up with their friends? Watching videos for FUN (oh, the horror!)? My daughter uses hers as her alarm. And a phone to call her friends. And to text. And to check out her friends Instagram. And to look up fun art projects. And to binge watch Friends on Netflix.

You may not like the reasons, but that’s on you. There are plenty of reasons in this day and age to have a smartphone and social media. I just monitor my daughters phone when necessary and talk about stuff that comes up as needed.

How old is your daughter? At sixteen, maybe. At eleven and twelve? Unnecessary. My 12yo daughter has an actual alarm. She calls her friend on our landline which we got for that purpose. She creates art projects that she thinks up using her own imagination, and she watches Netflix on a real television. She doesn’t text except from my phone occasionally and she doesn’t look at her friends’ Instagrams which is good because they shouldn’t even have them.

Your reasons why your child needs a smartphone are ridiculous. She doesn’t.

Ha. Ok lady.

[Anonymous]

There is no reason why an 11 or 12 year old should have an Instagram account. No way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no reason why an 11 or 12 year old should have an Instagram account. No way.

Just because you don’t like it or don’t allow it doesn’t mean there aren’t reasons. Its not nearly as big a deal as you’re making it out to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Agree 100%.

I get a kick out of the “there is absolutely no reason to have a smartphone or social media! None!” people. How about communication? Social interaction? Keeping up with their friends? Watching videos for FUN (oh, the horror!)? My daughter uses hers as her alarm. And a phone to call her friends. And to text. And to check out her friends Instagram. And to look up fun art projects. And to binge watch Friends on Netflix.

You may not like the reasons, but that’s on you. There are plenty of reasons in this day and age to have a smartphone and social media. I just monitor my daughters phone when necessary and talk about stuff that comes up as needed.

How old is your daughter? At sixteen, maybe. At eleven and twelve? Unnecessary. My 12yo daughter has an actual alarm. She calls her friend on our landline which we got for that purpose. She creates art projects that she thinks up using her own imagination, and she watches Netflix on a real television. She doesn’t text except from my phone occasionally and she doesn’t look at her friends’ Instagrams which is good because they shouldn’t even have them.

Your reasons why your child needs a smartphone are ridiculous. She doesn’t.

Ha. Ok lady.

No, the lady is correct. Parents should not open up this world to elementary and middle school kids. Teens are a different story. If your elementary or middle school child needs a phone to call or text you, get them a flip phone. They don't need a smartphone. They don't need to watch videos on a phone, play games on a phone and they really really shouldn't be on social media much if at all at this age, and certainly not have access to that when they are not supervised.