Intimate after date night

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What "works"?

That depends on what the objective is.

OP has to decide what he is willing to live with and how much he is willing to sacrifice, and he basically needs to put his marriage on the line, since it already is, anyway.

Either he wants to live the rest of his years in a sexless marriage, with an indifferent spouse, or he doesn't. Only three other alternatives: divorce, open marriage, or she becomes more sexually open. The choice is really hers.

The choice to continue the status quo and do nothing about it is OP's, and he needs to stop complaining about it and actually do something.

Doing something doesn't mean more chore play, and it doesn't mean more ineffectual date nights.

It means setting forth very clearly what he wants sexually from his wife, and what he is going to do if she is unwilling to have sex with him on a reasonably regular basis.

If he's not willing to do anything, other than complain, and then reward her for the sexlessness by taking her out on more dates, and doing more chores, then in ten years he will be in the same place, except older, with fewer options.

The sad part is OP's wife is probably already cheating on him, or has cheated in the past, and carrying a torch for her lover. She has "fallen out of love" with OP and that generally doesn't happen unless there is another man in the picture.

This rabbit hole is deep and the only question is whether OP has the guts to go down and explore it, wherever that leads.

All you men who think you have to “lay down the law” and “take control” are so pathetic. Yes, it’s 2018 and if a woman isn’t turned on by you she doesn’t have to just to keep a roof over her head. I guess patriarchy was invented for insecure men like you.

— DW whose husband knows how to seduce (by which I mean all of me, body and soul)

If you're not turned on by your husband enough to have sex with him more than rarely, you shouldn't have gotten married to him in the first place. If you did, you're an idiot. If you're not turned on by your husband any longer, than please feel free to divorce him, or not, if you need to stay married for some reason, but then don't expect him to remain faithful.

As far as needing to "seduce" you, I assume if you were adequately attracted to your husband, he wouldn't have to play whatever mind games you mean by "seduction" just for you to want to have sex with him.

So maybe you should divorce him, unless you need that roof over your head.

LOL you sound like such a winner, PP. I bet the ladies love you.

As for seduction...my husband is not American. He takes a more playful approach to life. A conversation can be seduction. A look. Anything fun. It is about enjoying each other, the more you have fun and love the closer you feel.

This thread is a sad look into the mind of insecure masculinity. OP, take note — being insecure and dictating terms to your partner is not fun or sexy. Unless you have agreed to play that game, of course.

I'm glad you finally found someone, even if it was a green card thing, it's understandable if you couldn't attract an American that you would need to be very practical to land a man.

Lots of citizens aren’t culturally American. And many people get their green cards/citizenship through work. More to the point, not sure why you are so hung up on shame and criticism? You should try relaxing. Be grateful for life. No need to come on here and spread negativity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Not your first as in you were a virgin.

Your first as in your first long term relationship in which you obtained regular sex from your partner. You may have had lots of experience in terms of many short term sexual relationships. Since you were in your early 20s when you started with your wife, how many long term serious relationships had you been in prior to your wife.

You say she had some too "probably" meaning you don't really know. Which also means there was no disclosure of prior sexual histories before you got serious with her, or even right up to the present. So you don't really know what her history of relationships was either, because you never exchanged that information with her.

Many women slacken on wanting a lot of sex (or any sex, sometimes) when in pregnancy or for a while after giving birth.

But not for ten years. That has nothing to do with childbirth or pregnancy.

You didn't have to put up with this for 10 years. You chose to put up with it for ten years. You're still putting up with it.

It's really all about behavior modification. For whatever reason, your wife modified your behavior when she modified hers. She decided less sex--almost no sex, really--would be the new status quo, and you accepted it.

For ten years.

You accepted it for ten years because you were, and are, afraid of your wife. She dominates your relationship,and probably always has. Your fears may be justified to the extent you are afraid of divorce and loss of your assets. Whatever the reason for your fear--you FEAR your wife.

Maybe it's psychological. Maybe deep down you are afraid you couldn't find another woman to love you. Who knows.

It's tragic that you actually agreed to a vasectomy because you were so sex-starved you thought you had no alternative. This amounts to literal physical castration of a sort, as well as emotional castration.

Your wife, far from assuming you are or will cheat on her, KNOWS you will not. She knows you better than you know yourself. Or at least she doesn't think you capable of it. You are fantasizing about it, as anyone would.

You say you don't feel trapped, but it actually sounds like you are trapped, but don't want to admit it. You reserve to yourself the illusion that you are in control of the situation, that you could leave anytime.

You're not in control of the situation.

You're so not in control of the situation, you are so fearful of your wife, that you are terrified of demanding sexual fulfillment from your wife.

I am guessing you had a very domineering mother.

I am guessing you don’t get much, which is why you have so much pent up frustration against women/ your domineering mother. Please seek help from a therapist — these posts are very misogynistic. You are projecting a lot of darkness that simply isn’t there. This is all in your head.

Now, now. Just as soon as he gets a girlfriend he's going to have the most sex of any man ever.

I’m laughing, but honestly those posts are creeping me out! Getting a sick vibe from all this talk about control and fear. Jeez, lighten up. It’s sex, it’s supposed to be fun. Not like kidnap an underaged woman and lock her in your basement since the only way you can get a woman to spend time with you is with force.

Right because expecting one's spouse to have sex on a regular basis is exactly the same thing as kidnapping an underaged woman and raping her.

Got it, thanks for the tip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless husbands are total assholes I have trouble understanding women who don’t occasionally have sex even if they aren’t in the mood. My libido is lower than my DH’s, he’s a good partner and a great dad. Sometimes he’ll initiate and while I’m not in the mood I can “fake it till I make it.” I don’t fake orgasms but I can be an enthusiastic partner even if I’m not initially into it. I do it bc it’s important to him and I love him.

I've done that for a while and it didn't work. For the last couple of years in our marriage, I had sex with DH whenever he asked, regardless of how I felt. What happened was at the end of two years, I became utterly numb sexually. I orgasmed just fine with self-pleasure but DH's touch felt like nothing even when he tried. I guess that was because I came to think of myself as a provider of sexual pleasure and not its object.

So I stopped completely. Took a long break. Decided that I am never having sex again unless I feel like it. It doesn't have to be throat-clutching but if I don't feel even a tiny spark of desire, I don't hesitate to say no. It did wonders for my libido to be allowed to run free again.

In other words, you gave him a hall pass?
So in your marriage, a spouse does only what they themselves totally “feel like” doing. So now when you really want to “talk about your day” your husband listens for 24 seconds then turns on SportsCenter. Because why should he care about your needs if he’s just not totally into it.

Your husband obviously now turns on SportsCenter after

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Look, this board is all theory. If you are that curious, then give it a try. I suggest sex therapist (go by yourself if wife won’t go and see if you can get tips) and read a book about women’s sexuality like She Comes First. I suspect from the conversations that you have described that there are other communication issues in the marriage. Sexuality for women is often a big picture thing. If you’re having anger issues or money stress or other things that create tension in the relationship, that will impact your sex life.

No, in OP's case, it's clearly a control issue. This has been going on for 10 years. OP's wife has been using the denial of sex to control his behavior, and it's worked fine (at least from her perspective). He takes her out on date nights because he thinks he can get sex that way (but it never works). He even got his tubes tied, not because he really wanted to, but because she lied to him and said her lack of libido was due to taking birth control. A flat out lie since the sex didn't improve after he "got snipped" and presumably she went off the pill.

OP's wife doesn't really like OP very much. Just like many of the PPs on this board obviously don't like men very much.

There's no communication issue in the OP's marriage. OP's wife knows OP wants sex.

The problem isn't lack of communication, it's that OP hasn't imposed any boundaries or consequences in response to the lack of sex.

OP's wife has been given no reason to change, so she won't change.

She is in control of the status quo.

OP fantasizes about divorcing her, about cheating on her, about giving her an ultimatum, but won't do it. Instead OP thinks there is a book or a therapist or some form of words that he can use to talk her into having sex with him.

He's been trying to do that for 10 years and it hasn't worked.

This has nothing to do with being in the mood or health or seduction or chores or date nights.

It has to do with CONTROL. Until OP accepts that his wife uses denial of sex to control him, and to control the marriage, change is not possible.

All OP needs to do is sit his wife down and tell her as follows:

"Honey it's been ten years waiting and you still refuse to have sex with me on anything remotely resembling a satisfactory frequency. I still love you but can't live this way any longer. Therefore unless there is immediate change on your part, and by that I mean we must have some form of sexual activity at least 3 times per week, I will consider myself at liberty to look outside the marriage, with other people, for sexual gratification."

That's it.

That's all OP needs to say to her.

And then after saying it, he needs to follow through.

Not a threat.

Not an ultimatum.

A statement of fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Not your first as in you were a virgin.

Your first as in your first long term relationship in which you obtained regular sex from your partner. You may have had lots of experience in terms of many short term sexual relationships. Since you were in your early 20s when you started with your wife, how many long term serious relationships had you been in prior to your wife.

You say she had some too "probably" meaning you don't really know. Which also means there was no disclosure of prior sexual histories before you got serious with her, or even right up to the present. So you don't really know what her history of relationships was either, because you never exchanged that information with her.

Many women slacken on wanting a lot of sex (or any sex, sometimes) when in pregnancy or for a while after giving birth.

But not for ten years. That has nothing to do with childbirth or pregnancy.

You didn't have to put up with this for 10 years. You chose to put up with it for ten years. You're still putting up with it.

It's really all about behavior modification. For whatever reason, your wife modified your behavior when she modified hers. She decided less sex--almost no sex, really--would be the new status quo, and you accepted it.

For ten years.

You accepted it for ten years because you were, and are, afraid of your wife. She dominates your relationship,and probably always has. Your fears may be justified to the extent you are afraid of divorce and loss of your assets. Whatever the reason for your fear--you FEAR your wife.

Maybe it's psychological. Maybe deep down you are afraid you couldn't find another woman to love you. Who knows.

It's tragic that you actually agreed to a vasectomy because you were so sex-starved you thought you had no alternative. This amounts to literal physical castration of a sort, as well as emotional castration.

Your wife, far from assuming you are or will cheat on her, KNOWS you will not. She knows you better than you know yourself. Or at least she doesn't think you capable of it. You are fantasizing about it, as anyone would.

You say you don't feel trapped, but it actually sounds like you are trapped, but don't want to admit it. You reserve to yourself the illusion that you are in control of the situation, that you could leave anytime.

You're not in control of the situation.

You're so not in control of the situation, you are so fearful of your wife, that you are terrified of demanding sexual fulfillment from your wife.

I am guessing you had a very domineering mother.

I am guessing you don’t get much, which is why you have so much pent up frustration against women/ your domineering mother. Please seek help from a therapist — these posts are very misogynistic. You are projecting a lot of darkness that simply isn’t there. This is all in your head.

Right because never getting to have sex with the woman you married (Op's problem) makes every day sunny, fun filled with unicorns and rainbows.

ESPECIALLY when you thought getting your masculinity surgically altered would finally get you sex with your wife, but didn't.

The only misogynist is someone who believes that wives should be told that they shouldn't have regular sex with their husbands. You must really hate OP's wife, and hence be a misogynist, if you believe she deserves a sexless life.

So many misconceptions here. Where do we start. Birth control, interesting topic. Men don’t give birth. A vasectomy is a very simple procedure compared to vaginal or cesarean birth. Many men choose to do an uncomplicated and reversible in-office procedure rather than putting their wife through tying tubes or years of hormonal birth control and its attendant risks (cancer, blood clot, etc.). If you call that tragic I guess you have a lot of trouble reading about what birth is like for women.

Feminism is about each woman’s experience and truth. I couldn’t presume to speak for the OP’s wife, or for the OP. The work of exploring their own lives and feelings is up to them. I hope they can both find more pleasure in the process. Loading it up with someone else’s baggage isn’t going to be very helpful, don’t you think?

Finally, sex isn’t about “getting.” It’s about giving and sharing. This is fundamentally about how their relationship is going, and relationship means give and take — two way street. You can’t really address something so intimate by taking one person’s perspective on it, radically reducing and oversimplifying it, and then telling them to just force an ultimatum on someone else. Sure, toddlers and preschoolers do that, but you’re supposed to grow out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Look, this board is all theory. If you are that curious, then give it a try. I suggest sex therapist (go by yourself if wife won’t go and see if you can get tips) and read a book about women’s sexuality like She Comes First. I suspect from the conversations that you have described that there are other communication issues in the marriage. Sexuality for women is often a big picture thing. If you’re having anger issues or money stress or other things that create tension in the relationship, that will impact your sex life.

No, in OP's case, it's clearly a control issue. This has been going on for 10 years. OP's wife has been using the denial of sex to control his behavior, and it's worked fine (at least from her perspective). He takes her out on date nights because he thinks he can get sex that way (but it never works). He even got his tubes tied, not because he really wanted to, but because she lied to him and said her lack of libido was due to taking birth control. A flat out lie since the sex didn't improve after he "got snipped" and presumably she went off the pill.

OP's wife doesn't really like OP very much. Just like many of the PPs on this board obviously don't like men very much.

There's no communication issue in the OP's marriage. OP's wife knows OP wants sex.

The problem isn't lack of communication, it's that OP hasn't imposed any boundaries or consequences in response to the lack of sex.

OP's wife has been given no reason to change, so she won't change.

She is in control of the status quo.

OP fantasizes about divorcing her, about cheating on her, about giving her an ultimatum, but won't do it. Instead OP thinks there is a book or a therapist or some form of words that he can use to talk her into having sex with him.

He's been trying to do that for 10 years and it hasn't worked.

This has nothing to do with being in the mood or health or seduction or chores or date nights.

It has to do with CONTROL. Until OP accepts that his wife uses denial of sex to control him, and to control the marriage, change is not possible.

All OP needs to do is sit his wife down and tell her as follows:

"Honey it's been ten years waiting and you still refuse to have sex with me on anything remotely resembling a satisfactory frequency. I still love you but can't live this way any longer. Therefore unless there is immediate change on your part, and by that I mean we must have some form of sexual activity at least 3 times per week, I will consider myself at liberty to look outside the marriage, with other people, for sexual gratification."

That's it.

That's all OP needs to say to her.

And then after saying it, he needs to follow through.

Not a threat.

Not an ultimatum.

A statement of fact.

Ugh. Start your own thread if you want to unpack your baggage. Writing a novel with OP as your protagonist makes for riveting reading, but it’s not helpful.

[Anonymous]

That's the problem isn't it though?

OP's wife has no interest in "giving and sharing" in a sexual manner as befits a real marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Not your first as in you were a virgin.

Your first as in your first long term relationship in which you obtained regular sex from your partner. You may have had lots of experience in terms of many short term sexual relationships. Since you were in your early 20s when you started with your wife, how many long term serious relationships had you been in prior to your wife.

You say she had some too "probably" meaning you don't really know. Which also means there was no disclosure of prior sexual histories before you got serious with her, or even right up to the present. So you don't really know what her history of relationships was either, because you never exchanged that information with her.

Many women slacken on wanting a lot of sex (or any sex, sometimes) when in pregnancy or for a while after giving birth.

But not for ten years. That has nothing to do with childbirth or pregnancy.

You didn't have to put up with this for 10 years. You chose to put up with it for ten years. You're still putting up with it.

It's really all about behavior modification. For whatever reason, your wife modified your behavior when she modified hers. She decided less sex--almost no sex, really--would be the new status quo, and you accepted it.

For ten years.

You accepted it for ten years because you were, and are, afraid of your wife. She dominates your relationship,and probably always has. Your fears may be justified to the extent you are afraid of divorce and loss of your assets. Whatever the reason for your fear--you FEAR your wife.

Maybe it's psychological. Maybe deep down you are afraid you couldn't find another woman to love you. Who knows.

It's tragic that you actually agreed to a vasectomy because you were so sex-starved you thought you had no alternative. This amounts to literal physical castration of a sort, as well as emotional castration.

Your wife, far from assuming you are or will cheat on her, KNOWS you will not. She knows you better than you know yourself. Or at least she doesn't think you capable of it. You are fantasizing about it, as anyone would.

You say you don't feel trapped, but it actually sounds like you are trapped, but don't want to admit it. You reserve to yourself the illusion that you are in control of the situation, that you could leave anytime.

You're not in control of the situation.

You're so not in control of the situation, you are so fearful of your wife, that you are terrified of demanding sexual fulfillment from your wife.

I am guessing you had a very domineering mother.

I am guessing you don’t get much, which is why you have so much pent up frustration against women/ your domineering mother. Please seek help from a therapist — these posts are very misogynistic. You are projecting a lot of darkness that simply isn’t there. This is all in your head.

Now, now. Just as soon as he gets a girlfriend he's going to have the most sex of any man ever.

I’m laughing, but honestly those posts are creeping me out! Getting a sick vibe from all this talk about control and fear. Jeez, lighten up. It’s sex, it’s supposed to be fun. Not like kidnap an underaged woman and lock her in your basement since the only way you can get a woman to spend time with you is with force.

Right because expecting one's spouse to have sex on a regular basis is exactly the same thing as kidnapping an underaged woman and raping her.

Got it, thanks for the tip.

You do you. If expecting your spouse to do XYZ regularly makes for a happy marriage for you, then more power to you. It may not work for others, though, so let’s accept that other people might have different ways of experiencing life and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Look, this board is all theory. If you are that curious, then give it a try. I suggest sex therapist (go by yourself if wife won’t go and see if you can get tips) and read a book about women’s sexuality like She Comes First. I suspect from the conversations that you have described that there are other communication issues in the marriage. Sexuality for women is often a big picture thing. If you’re having anger issues or money stress or other things that create tension in the relationship, that will impact your sex life.

No, in OP's case, it's clearly a control issue. This has been going on for 10 years. OP's wife has been using the denial of sex to control his behavior, and it's worked fine (at least from her perspective). He takes her out on date nights because he thinks he can get sex that way (but it never works). He even got his tubes tied, not because he really wanted to, but because she lied to him and said her lack of libido was due to taking birth control. A flat out lie since the sex didn't improve after he "got snipped" and presumably she went off the pill.

OP's wife doesn't really like OP very much. Just like many of the PPs on this board obviously don't like men very much.

There's no communication issue in the OP's marriage. OP's wife knows OP wants sex.

The problem isn't lack of communication, it's that OP hasn't imposed any boundaries or consequences in response to the lack of sex.

OP's wife has been given no reason to change, so she won't change.

She is in control of the status quo.

OP fantasizes about divorcing her, about cheating on her, about giving her an ultimatum, but won't do it. Instead OP thinks there is a book or a therapist or some form of words that he can use to talk her into having sex with him.

He's been trying to do that for 10 years and it hasn't worked.

This has nothing to do with being in the mood or health or seduction or chores or date nights.

It has to do with CONTROL. Until OP accepts that his wife uses denial of sex to control him, and to control the marriage, change is not possible.

All OP needs to do is sit his wife down and tell her as follows:

"Honey it's been ten years waiting and you still refuse to have sex with me on anything remotely resembling a satisfactory frequency. I still love you but can't live this way any longer. Therefore unless there is immediate change on your part, and by that I mean we must have some form of sexual activity at least 3 times per week, I will consider myself at liberty to look outside the marriage, with other people, for sexual gratification."

That's it.

That's all OP needs to say to her.

And then after saying it, he needs to follow through.

Not a threat.

Not an ultimatum.

A statement of fact.

Ugh. Start your own thread if you want to unpack your baggage. Writing a novel with OP as your protagonist makes for riveting reading, but it’s not helpful.

I'm trying to help the OP.

You're not.

You're trying to make him believe he's at fault for his wife's lack of sexuality.

I would think ten years of little or no sex, ten years of frustration, is novel-worthy.

Women such as yourself have every excuse in the world to justify lack of sex in a marriage.

OP isn't looking for excuses to justify his wife's lack of interest in marital sex.

You do understand that he's already heard plenty of those from the horse's mouth, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That's the problem isn't it though?

OP's wife has no interest in "giving and sharing" in a sexual manner as befits a real marriage.

Good, so it’s a question of improving their relationship. I think there are people who are trained to help with that, and if OP is really interested he can ask them. Just as if you really want to fix your car you don’t start posting on a message board to see if anyone can tell what’s wrong with it based on some pictures. For sure at least one kook on there will say that cars were made by the devil and he should throw it away. If you want to fix it, go to the best mechanic you can find. And get a second opinion while you’re at it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Look, this board is all theory. If you are that curious, then give it a try. I suggest sex therapist (go by yourself if wife won’t go and see if you can get tips) and read a book about women’s sexuality like She Comes First. I suspect from the conversations that you have described that there are other communication issues in the marriage. Sexuality for women is often a big picture thing. If you’re having anger issues or money stress or other things that create tension in the relationship, that will impact your sex life.

No, in OP's case, it's clearly a control issue. This has been going on for 10 years. OP's wife has been using the denial of sex to control his behavior, and it's worked fine (at least from her perspective). He takes her out on date nights because he thinks he can get sex that way (but it never works). He even got his tubes tied, not because he really wanted to, but because she lied to him and said her lack of libido was due to taking birth control. A flat out lie since the sex didn't improve after he "got snipped" and presumably she went off the pill.

OP's wife doesn't really like OP very much. Just like many of the PPs on this board obviously don't like men very much.

There's no communication issue in the OP's marriage. OP's wife knows OP wants sex.

The problem isn't lack of communication, it's that OP hasn't imposed any boundaries or consequences in response to the lack of sex.

OP's wife has been given no reason to change, so she won't change.

She is in control of the status quo.

OP fantasizes about divorcing her, about cheating on her, about giving her an ultimatum, but won't do it. Instead OP thinks there is a book or a therapist or some form of words that he can use to talk her into having sex with him.

He's been trying to do that for 10 years and it hasn't worked.

This has nothing to do with being in the mood or health or seduction or chores or date nights.

It has to do with CONTROL. Until OP accepts that his wife uses denial of sex to control him, and to control the marriage, change is not possible.

All OP needs to do is sit his wife down and tell her as follows:

"Honey it's been ten years waiting and you still refuse to have sex with me on anything remotely resembling a satisfactory frequency. I still love you but can't live this way any longer. Therefore unless there is immediate change on your part, and by that I mean we must have some form of sexual activity at least 3 times per week, I will consider myself at liberty to look outside the marriage, with other people, for sexual gratification."

That's it.

That's all OP needs to say to her.

And then after saying it, he needs to follow through.

Not a threat.

Not an ultimatum.

A statement of fact.

Ugh. Start your own thread if you want to unpack your baggage. Writing a novel with OP as your protagonist makes for riveting reading, but it’s not helpful.

I'm trying to help the OP.

You're not.

You're trying to make him believe he's at fault for his wife's lack of sexuality.

I would think ten years of little or no sex, ten years of frustration, is novel-worthy.

Women such as yourself have every excuse in the world to justify lack of sex in a marriage.

OP isn't looking for excuses to justify his wife's lack of interest in marital sex.

You do understand that he's already heard plenty of those from the horse's mouth, right?

Go write it then. Ten Years of No Sex — sounds like a blockbuster!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have.

I was surprised to find out how common DADT was, provided the rules (discrete, no drama, no in-circle friends, married ow/on preferred, guaranteed bc) are followed. More so than I would have thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here, some good suggestions. To answer a few questions:

No, she wasn't my first, not even close. I had lots of experience, she had some too probably similar. Sex was plentiful early, dropped down to 2-3x a week before kids but still adventerous enough and that frequency is totally fine by me.

Once the newborn came, it died down to 1-2x a month. I have put up with this for 10+ years because in my mind it was all temporary. Just the pregnancy/ newborn/ toddler/ elementary school years. Or she was on birth control, maybe if I got snipped, which I did. But yet no real uptake.

At the risk of being arrogant, it's not me as I am in shape, successful, conventionally attractive, wear nice clothes to work and all that. That I get a fair amount of female attention helps sooth the wife's rejection.

I don't feel trapped, I could leave tomorrow but I don't want to shred my family up over this. I sometimes wonder if women like my wife just assume I will cheat and if they are fine with that, sort of turning a blind eye and keeping up the lifestyle rather than have sex they don't want to have. Its a dangerous question to ask, but at the same time, she is smart enough to know 2x a month duty sex is pathetic and will make a man's eye wander.

One post upstream asked a good question, whether anyone has actually counselled or talked or ultimatmed their partner back into a healthy sex life. I am interested as well if that is even possible.

Look, this board is all theory. If you are that curious, then give it a try. I suggest sex therapist (go by yourself if wife won’t go and see if you can get tips) and read a book about women’s sexuality like She Comes First. I suspect from the conversations that you have described that there are other communication issues in the marriage. Sexuality for women is often a big picture thing. If you’re having anger issues or money stress or other things that create tension in the relationship, that will impact your sex life.

No, in OP's case, it's clearly a control issue. This has been going on for 10 years. OP's wife has been using the denial of sex to control his behavior, and it's worked fine (at least from her perspective). He takes her out on date nights because he thinks he can get sex that way (but it never works). He even got his tubes tied, not because he really wanted to, but because she lied to him and said her lack of libido was due to taking birth control. A flat out lie since the sex didn't improve after he "got snipped" and presumably she went off the pill.

OP's wife doesn't really like OP very much. Just like many of the PPs on this board obviously don't like men very much.

There's no communication issue in the OP's marriage. OP's wife knows OP wants sex.

The problem isn't lack of communication, it's that OP hasn't imposed any boundaries or consequences in response to the lack of sex.

OP's wife has been given no reason to change, so she won't change.

She is in control of the status quo.

OP fantasizes about divorcing her, about cheating on her, about giving her an ultimatum, but won't do it. Instead OP thinks there is a book or a therapist or some form of words that he can use to talk her into having sex with him.

He's been trying to do that for 10 years and it hasn't worked.

This has nothing to do with being in the mood or health or seduction or chores or date nights.

It has to do with CONTROL. Until OP accepts that his wife uses denial of sex to control him, and to control the marriage, change is not possible.

All OP needs to do is sit his wife down and tell her as follows:

"Honey it's been ten years waiting and you still refuse to have sex with me on anything remotely resembling a satisfactory frequency. I still love you but can't live this way any longer. Therefore unless there is immediate change on your part, and by that I mean we must have some form of sexual activity at least 3 times per week, I will consider myself at liberty to look outside the marriage, with other people, for sexual gratification."

That's it.

That's all OP needs to say to her.

And then after saying it, he needs to follow through.

Not a threat.

Not an ultimatum.

A statement of fact.

What's up with all of the one sentence paragraphs?

[Anonymous]

Of course

I assume that is the point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's the problem isn't it though?

OP's wife has no interest in "giving and sharing" in a sexual manner as befits a real marriage.

Good, so it’s a question of improving their relationship. I think there are people who are trained to help with that, and if OP is really interested he can ask them. Just as if you really want to fix your car you don’t start posting on a message board to see if anyone can tell what’s wrong with it based on some pictures. For sure at least one kook on there will say that cars were made by the devil and he should throw it away. If you want to fix it, go to the best mechanic you can find. And get a second opinion while you’re at it!

I've seen lots of people go to mechanics and get their car fixed. I haven't heard many success stories about couples in OP's situation fixing their sex lives. Ultimatum guy is the only person claiming to have had success. I don't really think that approach is going to work for OP, but I'm not hearing anyone say, "our sex lives sucked for years because one spouse was never in the mood, but then we talked about it/got counseling/did choreplay and things got better."