DH Rant

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - the fact that you condition your happiness with him arranging a date on his first checking your schedule suggests the problem to me. It's not an unreasonable thing to want; but if he's going to lead, he has to lead. If he's a good leader, he'll probably check your schedule. If he's a strong leader, he might not give a damn about what others want you to do -- he wants you to do something else, so tough shit for them and their plans for you.

But, I wonder how many other times he made some kind of fledgling attempt to lead only to find that he hadn't met one of your (perhaps) reasonable conditions. He might have come to the conclusion that, "Well, I don't have strong opinions on most of these things; she clearly does, so I'll defer to her. That will make her happy."

I'm maybe a little less agreeable; so I've made it clear to my wife that, in a given situation, either I'm making the decisions or I'm not. I don't care much either way. However, I'm not in the business of having my decisions second guessed.

We always consult each other on schedule. I've surprised him by making arrangements for a date. It's not hard. I just email him - what do you have going on this Saturday? He writes back - nothing, why? Then I reply - I bought tix to X and ask SIL to babysit. I don't assume he has no life. That's not alpha - that's asshole.

And yes, I've gotten the "I'll defer to your strong opinions" line, but it's always with a side dish of guilt trip, however subtle and passive it may be. Which decidely does not make me happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:15:14 here – OP, your DH is clearly in some sort of rut as others have also noted. But why? OP, you sound like a lovely person (I mean that seriously) and it may be that your hard work and success is intimidating to him. You seem to have been able to conquer your challenges and are continuing to be successful - which is awesome.

But deep down, he may feel emasculated in a way - that he is not the 'provider' for the family; that he is not the strong presence in the house who can solve problems, fix things, etc. It's no one's fault (and don't feel ashamed). It's difficult for many men who are trying to be supportive and understanding (more than our fathers), yet also trying to figure out how to "still be a man" in a very different reality than the world we grew up in. In fact, he may be ashamed with himself that he just can't get things going in the right direction and this has spilled over into your family life (he can't make simple decisions like what's for dinner) and definitely into the bedroom.

Your attempts thus far to be supportive and encouraging, to stroke his ego are more than admirable. I think we all realize that fine line you're trying to walk - not to be bitchy and nagging yet trying to gently push and nudge him forward. But we men don't do subtlety well. It's directness (not bluntness or meanness) that works - and maybe it needs to come from someone else (if he has brothers, best friend, etc.) - to tell him to get his shit together and restart his testosterone engine (BTW - has he checked his T levels?).

in addition to some good advice you've gotten, all I can say is that start with simple things - stuff to get his ego flowing back, to rebuild some of that mojo (confidence) that he seems to have lost. You can’t tackle everything b/c it’s probably just too daunting for him to think of it all and that’s why he’s in this vicious cycle.

maybe workout together (you “need” his help to get in shape AND you want to spend time with him); tell him you love simple surprises (e.g., he chooses dinner 1 or 2 nights) – and give him props to your friends (and for him to witness); you, for no reason, hold his hand, reminisce about the days when he was courting you (tell him in different ways you love him) – men, even confident men in healthy relationships need to hear that. But the important thing is not to expect the reciprocity right away – he has to internalize all of this – and hopefully, he breaks out of his funk and you start to see changes. Then you can incorporate different things - maybe you take him clothes shopping –get him to dress differently so he feels more confident (and maybe you get turned on too), maybe a new hairstyle, whatever. But together, if he is showing signs of improving, this nudging can help with more substantive break-throughs.

I wish you both the best of luck!

Thank you. Really, seriously, thank you for this. He does feel some of the stuff above, and I know it, and I feel for him. As I said, I get it - relationships are a hell of a lot different in 2014 then they were when our parents or grandparents were young. None of us know what the hell we are doing.

And can I ask, seriously - what, in your man's mind, is the difference between directness and bluntness or meanness? I think I feel I am being direct, but I fear it it is being received as blunt or mean. Definitely not my intent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

While I am an assertive person by nature and will instinctly seek to take the lead, I've come to realize that I only do this when I don't sense another lead present. I let my husband know that if he assumed the lead on things, I would HAPPILY revel in knowing he has things under control. It would be a DREAM to be able to rely on my mate to make sure everything was okay.

Like you, I don't want to be the primary decision maker. Rather than assume I want this role, what my husband doesn't get is that I do it because otherwise nothing would get done.

My wife is a little like this sometimes. But that's because she refuses to accept my analysis that a lot of the shit simply doesn't need doing. We don't need new flower beds. Our old couch will serve for another couple of years. The kids could use some unstructured play time instead of another god damned activity. So, she takes the lead on another set of plans. Then, I lend a hand because I'm not lazy -- I just find a lot of what occupies her attention to be fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - the fact that you condition your happiness with him arranging a date on his first checking your schedule suggests the problem to me. It's not an unreasonable thing to want; but if he's going to lead, he has to lead. If he's a good leader, he'll probably check your schedule. If he's a strong leader, he might not give a damn about what others want you to do -- he wants you to do something else, so tough shit for them and their plans for you.

But, I wonder how many other times he made some kind of fledgling attempt to lead only to find that he hadn't met one of your (perhaps) reasonable conditions. He might have come to the conclusion that, "Well, I don't have strong opinions on most of these things; she clearly does, so I'll defer to her. That will make her happy."

I'm maybe a little less agreeable; so I've made it clear to my wife that, in a given situation, either I'm making the decisions or I'm not. I don't care much either way. However, I'm not in the business of having my decisions second guessed.

By the way, just want to clarify I don't "condition" him making plans on checking my calendar. We both always do that, always have, always will. Out of respect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

While I am an assertive person by nature and will instinctly seek to take the lead, I've come to realize that I only do this when I don't sense another lead present. I let my husband know that if he assumed the lead on things, I would HAPPILY revel in knowing he has things under control. It would be a DREAM to be able to rely on my mate to make sure everything was okay.

Like you, I don't want to be the primary decision maker. Rather than assume I want this role, what my husband doesn't get is that I do it because otherwise nothing would get done.

My wife is a little like this sometimes. But that's because she refuses to accept my analysis that a lot of the shit simply doesn't need doing. We don't need new flower beds. Our old couch will serve for another couple of years. The kids could use some unstructured play time instead of another god damned activity. So, she takes the lead on another set of plans. Then, I lend a hand because I'm not lazy -- I just find a lot of what occupies her attention to be fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

OP here and this makes me laugh. We have plenty of these disagreements, but this is one area we've figured out. If you want new flower beds and I don't give a damn, then you go for it. If I want to organize the closets and you don't care, I'll tackle the hell out of them myself. We each just take DC and go do something else so the other one can enjoy the thing they want to do. It actually works out well. We realize things like flower beds and organized closets are wants. We NEED to cook dinner and wash dishes. We NEED to get DC to bed. We NEED to do laundry.

[Anonymous]

There is no way the OP is a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no way the OP is a woman.

No, I am. I am totally sitting here with a vagina and two breasts, along with a c-section scar. Believe it.

Are women like me this rare? Seriously?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15:14 here – OP, your DH is clearly in some sort of rut as others have also noted. But why? OP, you sound like a lovely person (I mean that seriously) and it may be that your hard work and success is intimidating to him. You seem to have been able to conquer your challenges and are continuing to be successful - which is awesome.

But deep down, he may feel emasculated in a way - that he is not the 'provider' for the family; that he is not the strong presence in the house who can solve problems, fix things, etc. It's no one's fault (and don't feel ashamed). It's difficult for many men who are trying to be supportive and understanding (more than our fathers), yet also trying to figure out how to "still be a man" in a very different reality than the world we grew up in. In fact, he may be ashamed with himself that he just can't get things going in the right direction and this has spilled over into your family life (he can't make simple decisions like what's for dinner) and definitely into the bedroom.

Your attempts thus far to be supportive and encouraging, to stroke his ego are more than admirable. I think we all realize that fine line you're trying to walk - not to be bitchy and nagging yet trying to gently push and nudge him forward. But we men don't do subtlety well. It's directness (not bluntness or meanness) that works - and maybe it needs to come from someone else (if he has brothers, best friend, etc.) - to tell him to get his shit together and restart his testosterone engine (BTW - has he checked his T levels?).

in addition to some good advice you've gotten, all I can say is that start with simple things - stuff to get his ego flowing back, to rebuild some of that mojo (confidence) that he seems to have lost. You can’t tackle everything b/c it’s probably just too daunting for him to think of it all and that’s why he’s in this vicious cycle.

maybe workout together (you “need” his help to get in shape AND you want to spend time with him); tell him you love simple surprises (e.g., he chooses dinner 1 or 2 nights) – and give him props to your friends (and for him to witness); you, for no reason, hold his hand, reminisce about the days when he was courting you (tell him in different ways you love him) – men, even confident men in healthy relationships need to hear that. But the important thing is not to expect the reciprocity right away – he has to internalize all of this – and hopefully, he breaks out of his funk and you start to see changes. Then you can incorporate different things - maybe you take him clothes shopping –get him to dress differently so he feels more confident (and maybe you get turned on too), maybe a new hairstyle, whatever. But together, if he is showing signs of improving, this nudging can help with more substantive break-throughs.

I wish you both the best of luck!

Thank you. Really, seriously, thank you for this. He does feel some of the stuff above, and I know it, and I feel for him. As I said, I get it - relationships are a hell of a lot different in 2014 then they were when our parents or grandparents were young. None of us know what the hell we are doing.

And can I ask, seriously - what, in your man's mind, is the difference between directness and bluntness or meanness? I think I feel I am being direct, but I fear it it is being received as blunt or mean. Definitely not my intent.

Obviously each person is different and without knowing how your DH has taken (interprets or “hears” what you say) your encouragement and advice, it’s tough to say with absolute certainty what would/would not work for your DH – but here’s at least some suggestions.

In terms of being direct, from a woman to a man, what would work (for me) – “honey, when you do X” (just use only one real example so he doesn’t take it as piling on or feel overwhelmed), “it makes me feel (insert some over the top but real feeling/adjective). I just love it when you do that and I can’t just get enough (or something to that effect)”. In turn, you might ask him something that he would like from you (maybe it’s too soon but if he does hopefully step up and you see some initial changes for the positive, then you can offer something to him that you can do). If that does happen, you can then up the ante a bit (by using another real example of what he can do and how it does make you feel) – but take it slowly, celebrate it, and reciprocate.

I get that you’re having issues in the bedroom, but if he’s able to show some demonstrable positive change, even if it’s only baby steps, showing affection is a clear signal to him that you still do love him (we men are simple creatures after all).

If he’s doing something remarkable and you enjoy it, or celebrating it, don’t say something along the line “now why can’t you apply this at work or some other part of our life” – that will defeat him because all he is hearing is that “he can’t do anything right to please you” because it seems this is the mindset he might be stuck in.

Being blunt should come from another guy – basically a BF/buddy/sibling laying it out “dude, you need to stop X and get your ass in gear”. If you were to say something like this, it would be taken as mean and hurtful and probably soul crushing. We can take that from another guy but not from the woman we love – I know it may sound ridiculous to women, but for men, we want our women to put us on that pedestal and we don’t want to be seen or thought of us weak by the DW/GF/SO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Being blunt should come from another guy – basically a BF/buddy/sibling laying it out “dude, you need to stop X and get your ass in gear”. If you were to say something like this, it would be taken as mean and hurtful and probably soul crushing. We can take that from another guy but not from the woman we love – I know it may sound ridiculous to women, but for men, we want our women to put us on that pedestal and we don’t want to be seen or thought of us weak by the DW/GF/SO.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that OP's husband doesn't have a lot of guy friends. If he did at one time, I'm going to further guess that they disappeared during the period of time when OP was feeling like the second fiddle.

Or maybe I'm just projecting. Early in my marriage, my wife lacked a certain confidence and, consequently, liked to make sure I spent as much time as possible with her. My hanging out with friends was usually problematic in some fashion. This was amplified when our kids were very tiny. Those things, combined with the normal process of getting older, caused me to sort of lose touch with a lot of my old friends. Now, the kids are a little less dependent, and my wife has matured and gained confidence -- recently, she's been wondering why I don't spend more time with "the guys." Fortunately, I've been developing a circle of friends lately that allows me to get out sometimes. She doesn't really recognize that she at least contributed to the smallish nature of my circle of guy friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. How do you tell him? I think you make two things clear.

1. What you just said about confidence in him. You trust him and his judgement, etc.
2. You only have the mental space for so much decision making. He needs to bear the burden of some of it. Divvy it up. Treat it like you would household chores, with a list of responsibilities for each of you.

This can all be said in a way that makes him feel strong, not bullied.

Are you a man? I'm asking because I asked that question in the context of our sex life, which has not been good. Not as frequent or satisfying. He's no dummy and he's noticed because, as I said, I am a horrible faker (and reallly, that should be a good thing, yes?). When I get asked point blank if I'm not turned on by him anymore, it's the one time I get good at faking real quick. How can I say well, yes? And here's why I think that's happening? Believe it or not, I am not some bitch out to emasculate my husband. I love him. He is a great person, and I don't want to hurt him. But there it is. All of the things I've articulated here are killing my desire for him. And we are too young for that shit and have way too much of the future before us to just let that dog lie.

Now I know someone will suggest couples counseling.

Not a man. I wasn't answering about your sex life but about his habit of letting you make all the decisions. Doesn't matter, because it sounds like the sex problems stem from all the other stuff. If you fix the other stuff (his complaining, passivity, etc.), the sex problem should take are of itself. And by "fix the other stuff," I don't necessarily mean that he does all the changing. It will take both of you-- your DH changing some things and you changing some things (maybe just your perspective a bit).

I know that whenever my husband and I are in some kind of rut or downward spiral-- or even when there's just a specific issue that we can't get past-- I express what I need from him very clearly but couched in loving, generous language. When I shoot from the hip, all the negative stuff comes out first and by the time I'm ready to say something kinder or put it in the context of my love and appreciation for him, he's already upset and tuned out. So I start by setting a loving context, talking about how much I value him, our life together, the specific character traits he brings to the table, etc. I tell him in clear language what I want or need from him but framed in how it's good for us, our family, and for him because I want him to be happy. He loves me, loves our family, is devoted to us. I'm not faking it when I say these things and making the effort to do so (even if I'm having a hard feeling it when I start out) actually reminds me that all of this is true. I've also learned that even when he doesn't respond positively during the conversation, he takes in what I've said and it's reflected in his actions within a few days.