DH Rant

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the truth is that you know you can do better than DH.

This happens with men when they trade up and get a trophy wife.

I think he is acting beta because he is not sure why you are so dissatisfied. He is trying to be sensitive.

My DH and I accept each other as we are (25 years of marriage) and that could be because we cannot trade up or down anymore. We do not have the opportunity, inclination, stamina or financial flexibility.

Hypergamy. It is something we all have to be aware of and deal with.

It is entirely possible that this is the case. OP's husband has to be aware of that and begin changing his behaviors or things will continue to crumble. Biology is what it is.

Problem with her husband's approach is that by being "Sensitive" he continues to diminish himself in her eyes.

But he has been taught that this is way to a woman's heart, by checking in with her and "valuing" her opinion and to not be pushy.

He is learning, however, that this kills desire very quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I really don't think this is helpful for you to think about in terms of gender roles. Your DH is a person with certain qualities and habits; thinking about it in terms of what women want/what men want is really NOT useful. What really matters here is that you seem to have lost all compassion and good will towards your husband. Work on that in concrete ways - seeing it as "women want to be led" is neither true nor useful. I think most PEOPLE want to feel that their partnerships are productive and mutually satisfying and emotionally supportive.

it is helpful because her husband needs to get moving and make changes. and yes it is true that women want to be led. not domineered but led.

compassion and goodwill have to be earned I believe. there is not an inexhaustible well that can be tapped every day for infinity without refilling it. you refill it by doing the things that make you a good person and a good partner and someone to admire.

few women find a man attractive who asks her input on every little thought he has as if he can't manage his own affairs.

Not the OP. I agree that it's not helpful to think about gender roles. What OP wants is a partner who will take charge more than he does. I'm sure there are also men who wish that they had a (female) partner who took charge more. I am a woman and I do not feel like I need a man who will take charge all the time, or even some of the time. I share the OP's frustration about having a spouse who has a hard time making decisions, as "What should we have for dinner?" is a question that is almost always met with "Whatever you want, sweetie." I don't equate his inability to make plans with being "less of a man" or even "not the partner I want" though.

Compassion and good will do NOT have to be earned. Obviously in the course of a long relationship, there will be some years when the compassion and good will come easier than other years, but at the end of even the bad years, this is your SPOUSE, the person you love. Treating them decently and with respect is part of being married to a person. If a man were to say that his unmotivated wife needed to earn his compassion and good will, many of the people on this site would go through the roof about it.

OP, I posted earlier suggesting that you both sound depressed. It sounds like you guys have had a stressful year in general. Moving is hard on people individually and it's doubly hard on a marriage. It sounds like you felt empowered by the changes you made in your professional life as a result of this move and are sad that your husband has not taken similar steps to better a situation he admits makes him unhappy. What you did was brave. It's sometimes hard for people to be brave like that, especially about something as big as changing jobs. It sounds like he either doesn't feel like he has a viable plan or that he is too scared to execute it. Both of which are unfortunate, but both of which are also understandable, just like your exhaustion with being a cheerleader all the time is understandable. Please give yourself and your husband a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I like alpha males. I absolutely hate insecure emasculated men. They're worthless both in the boardroom and the bedroom. They might as well bend over and join the other team.

Is a wife's success "emasculating?" Seriously men, weigh in here. Why marry an intelligent, educated and accomplished woman if you are only going to act like babies when she does well, insisting that she's "emasculated" you? I don't get it.

I personally dont find it emasculating, but then again, I'm a leader in my field. It would be hard to make my work seem insignificant in comparison.

From what I have observed, its not the act of being successful that lesser men find emasculating, its the other attitudes that come with it. And I think the women themselves find themselves less interested in their men once the woman's success reaches greater highs.

Women want to mate with men equal or better. No momma every says to their daughter 'I Hope you find someone who is less educated and less successful than you!"

Women, even the educated working ones want to feel lead at times. When they feel like they are the "grown up" or the one doing the leading, everything breaks down.

OP back. I've been monitoring for an intelligent comment, so thank you. The bolded is SPOT ON. DH asks me to weigh in on every little decision. He's currently working from home, and while I appreciate on some level him calling to ask "do you want X or Y for dinner?" on some level I just want him to fucking choose. Surprise me. Ditto should we see move X at noon on Saturday or 2pm on Sunday? I DON'T CARE. Pick one and then call the sitter. Or just say, hey I plan to do X is your calendar clear? (Avoiding scheduling conflicts I would get. But if my assistant said should I schedule this meeting for you at noon or two my answer would be - if my calendar is clear, JUST DO IT.) Instead of asking my opinion on every career move, networking call, etc etc and regaling me with insecurities about how and why it won't work, just DO IT. Just have some confidence, gird your loins, and DO IT ALREADY!! I mean, I want to be consulted on the important shit. Buying a new car, house, choosing a school for our child - check. Other little crap? Just DO IT. Career move? DO IT. Then tell me all about how it went after.

Okay, you're a man, so tell me - please - how do I tell him this stuff without it coming across as offensive? The reality is that I have every confidence in the world in his ability to make good decisions, get shit done, and do it right. Why the hell doesn't he? He's intelligent or else I wouldn't have married him.

Was he like this when you met him?

I suggest you point him in the direction of this website/blog/book : Marriedmansexlife.com

That author espouses a very digestible model of captain/co-captain which encourages the man to be more of a leader within his own life and the relationship. His take is well informed and has generated a lot of positive results for couples.

Many men in this generation have been ground down over time into becoming sniveling betas worried about stepping on toes or being too forceful.

I think all but the softest attempts to convince him of his need to change would be met with resistance.

Its hard for me to relate because if I was screwing up I'd want her to say SACK UP and I would be reminded. But that doesn't happen to me.

Athol Kay, author of marriedmaxsexlife.com, knows how to get that message across.

and believe me, its not just about sex, its about how to be a Man in today's world and how to create a dynamic between husband/wife that is fulfilling to both.

Captain/co-captain

check it out

I have no affiliation with that site at all.

Amen! OP here, and thanks. I agree it's not easy for any of us. It's been a huge cultural shift in the past 50 years and women are reeling too. I have no role models for this life. And for the culture warriors on this thread, DH would be even MORE insecure if I quit my job to SAH. He's even said as much. "What if I lost my job, then?" It's a fair point. I've also generally been the one with the kick-ass retirement plan, so we are both counting on that. Our economy and our reality today is what it is. I feel like you either keep on pushing forward or you get left behind. And neither one of us wants to get left behind. We owe it our child not to get left behind.

I don't know. . .maybe it's not even DH so much as it is the cumulative effect of choosing to be married, dual career parents. It's a damned slog. Anything that can help us navigate it better will surely help so I will check it out.

one of the things we're seeing in these 50 years of changes is what happens when a woman is more powerful/successful than her male partner. bad things happen generally. but its not hopeless. it just takes a more conscious decision in other areas of life.

the man has to be in charge of his own life at least! meaning, even if wife makes 2x money, man needs to be competent and confident in what he chose to do...and do it well independently.

the marriedmansexlife community has lots of good info including a forum dedicated to wives who have husbands who either a) they wish were more of a Captain or b) are actively trying to change their lives. good support there

Yes, yes yes! This is exactly what I'm getting at. And by the way, I don't make anywhere near 2x as much. Not even close. Just slightly more, but I'm moving up and DH is kind of stagnating and in a panic/funk about it because he's been forced out of his comfort zone. It's not like I set out to make him feel inferior, becuase he's not and I don't think that. Never have. Otherwise, like I said, I wouldn't have married him.

[Anonymous]

Ok OP, go ahead and decide that your DH is too much of a beta male for you, and see how useful that is as a way to solve your problems. It seems to me that your are just looking for reinforcement to write him off as hopelessly pansy. You are going to need to accept him for who he is (while at the same time trying to work with him for change).

You really do remind me of my super-intense friend who is driving her dh slowly to exhaustion. To you your "kick ass" standards are the only way to live - but it is perfectly ok to be less ambitious and less driven - yes, even for a man. For my friend, I wish she could just revel in having a nice guy to love her and support her as she works so hard to achieve. But instead, she sets up a ridiculous pace of life and gets angry when he fails.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I really don't think this is helpful for you to think about in terms of gender roles. Your DH is a person with certain qualities and habits; thinking about it in terms of what women want/what men want is really NOT useful. What really matters here is that you seem to have lost all compassion and good will towards your husband. Work on that in concrete ways - seeing it as "women want to be led" is neither true nor useful. I think most PEOPLE want to feel that their partnerships are productive and mutually satisfying and emotionally supportive.

it is helpful because her husband needs to get moving and make changes. and yes it is true that women want to be led. not domineered but led.

compassion and goodwill have to be earned I believe. there is not an inexhaustible well that can be tapped every day for infinity without refilling it. you refill it by doing the things that make you a good person and a good partner and someone to admire.

few women find a man attractive who asks her input on every little thought he has as if he can't manage his own affairs.

Not the OP. I agree that it's not helpful to think about gender roles. What OP wants is a partner who will take charge more than he does. I'm sure there are also men who wish that they had a (female) partner who took charge more. I am a woman and I do not feel like I need a man who will take charge all the time, or even some of the time. I share the OP's frustration about having a spouse who has a hard time making decisions, as "What should we have for dinner?" is a question that is almost always met with "Whatever you want, sweetie." I don't equate his inability to make plans with being "less of a man" or even "not the partner I want" though.

Compassion and good will do NOT have to be earned. Obviously in the course of a long relationship, there will be some years when the compassion and good will come easier than other years, but at the end of even the bad years, this is your SPOUSE, the person you love. Treating them decently and with respect is part of being married to a person. If a man were to say that his unmotivated wife needed to earn his compassion and good will, many of the people on this site would go through the roof about it.

OP, I posted earlier suggesting that you both sound depressed. It sounds like you guys have had a stressful year in general. Moving is hard on people individually and it's doubly hard on a marriage. It sounds like you felt empowered by the changes you made in your professional life as a result of this move and are sad that your husband has not taken similar steps to better a situation he admits makes him unhappy. What you did was brave. It's sometimes hard for people to be brave like that, especially about something as big as changing jobs. It sounds like he either doesn't feel like he has a viable plan or that he is too scared to execute it. Both of which are unfortunate, but both of which are also understandable, just like your exhaustion with being a cheerleader all the time is understandable. Please give yourself and your husband a break.

I know. You are right. I decidely DO NOT think he has to "earn" my compassion whatever that means. He has it. In spades. Like I said, what I'm short on is patience. And it is affecting my attraction, if I am being honest. And I don't know how to tell him, because I am the world's worst faker in bed.

It has been a big year, and we are still navigating that. I wouldn't say he doesn't have a plan, because he does, and I'm proud of him for that. I just want him to have some confidence that can and will execute on it and come out strong, instead of leaning on me for ego-bolstering so much. I guess I want him to just have that ego, that confidence, naturally inside of himself. It comes and it goes, but I think he generally has less confidence than me and always has. It's just that our current situation is exacerbating that gap. I'm trying to hang in there and not lose my cool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I really don't think this is helpful for you to think about in terms of gender roles. Your DH is a person with certain qualities and habits; thinking about it in terms of what women want/what men want is really NOT useful. What really matters here is that you seem to have lost all compassion and good will towards your husband. Work on that in concrete ways - seeing it as "women want to be led" is neither true nor useful. I think most PEOPLE want to feel that their partnerships are productive and mutually satisfying and emotionally supportive.

it is helpful because her husband needs to get moving and make changes. and yes it is true that women want to be led. not domineered but led.

compassion and goodwill have to be earned I believe. there is not an inexhaustible well that can be tapped every day for infinity without refilling it. you refill it by doing the things that make you a good person and a good partner and someone to admire.

few women find a man attractive who asks her input on every little thought he has as if he can't manage his own affairs.

Not the OP. I agree that it's not helpful to think about gender roles. What OP wants is a partner who will take charge more than he does. I'm sure there are also men who wish that they had a (female) partner who took charge more. I am a woman and I do not feel like I need a man who will take charge all the time, or even some of the time. I share the OP's frustration about having a spouse who has a hard time making decisions, as "What should we have for dinner?" is a question that is almost always met with "Whatever you want, sweetie." I don't equate his inability to make plans with being "less of a man" or even "not the partner I want" though.

Compassion and good will do NOT have to be earned. Obviously in the course of a long relationship, there will be some years when the compassion and good will come easier than other years, but at the end of even the bad years, this is your SPOUSE, the person you love. Treating them decently and with respect is part of being married to a person. If a man were to say that his unmotivated wife needed to earn his compassion and good will, many of the people on this site would go through the roof about it.

I think that is a wonderful theory but it doesn't work in practice. Thats why we have divorces that aren't just about abuse or addition or whatnot. Things happen. life happens. people begin to suck.

its not fair but yes, goodwill has to be earned. by your logic there is nothing one could do to extinguish your well of goodwill? I don't think that is true. there are many things which drain the goodwill.

being realistic about life, understanding there is not one soul mate in the world for us, or that somehow eternal love is our god given right and due to us no matter what - is a valuable lesson. it will hopefully create the motivation for spouses to work hard and to continue to be the best version of themselves they can be.

unconditional love is a myth

and its not even reality to those who believe it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok OP, go ahead and decide that your DH is too much of a beta male for you, and see how useful that is as a way to solve your problems. It seems to me that your are just looking for reinforcement to write him off as hopelessly pansy. You are going to need to accept him for who he is (while at the same time trying to work with him for change).

You really do remind me of my super-intense friend who is driving her dh slowly to exhaustion. To you your "kick ass" standards are the only way to live - but it is perfectly ok to be less ambitious and less driven - yes, even for a man. For my friend, I wish she could just revel in having a nice guy to love her and support her as she works so hard to achieve. But instead, she sets up a ridiculous pace of life and gets angry when he fails.

I don't have ridiculous standards and I haven't set a ridiculous pace. In fact, we moved PRECISELY because the pace in DC was too much for both of us and my current opportunity offered a better balance for more money. I am not your friend, so don't project your issues with that person onto me. Doesn't sound the same at all.

[Anonymous]

Be careful what you wish for; you may get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Be careful what you wish for; you may get it.

Cool story, bro. That's deep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I really don't think this is helpful for you to think about in terms of gender roles. Your DH is a person with certain qualities and habits; thinking about it in terms of what women want/what men want is really NOT useful. What really matters here is that you seem to have lost all compassion and good will towards your husband. Work on that in concrete ways - seeing it as "women want to be led" is neither true nor useful. I think most PEOPLE want to feel that their partnerships are productive and mutually satisfying and emotionally supportive.

it is helpful because her husband needs to get moving and make changes. and yes it is true that women want to be led. not domineered but led.

compassion and goodwill have to be earned I believe. there is not an inexhaustible well that can be tapped every day for infinity without refilling it. you refill it by doing the things that make you a good person and a good partner and someone to admire.

few women find a man attractive who asks her input on every little thought he has as if he can't manage his own affairs.

Not the OP. I agree that it's not helpful to think about gender roles. What OP wants is a partner who will take charge more than he does. I'm sure there are also men who wish that they had a (female) partner who took charge more. I am a woman and I do not feel like I need a man who will take charge all the time, or even some of the time. I share the OP's frustration about having a spouse who has a hard time making decisions, as "What should we have for dinner?" is a question that is almost always met with "Whatever you want, sweetie." I don't equate his inability to make plans with being "less of a man" or even "not the partner I want" though.

Compassion and good will do NOT have to be earned. Obviously in the course of a long relationship, there will be some years when the compassion and good will come easier than other years, but at the end of even the bad years, this is your SPOUSE, the person you love. Treating them decently and with respect is part of being married to a person. If a man were to say that his unmotivated wife needed to earn his compassion and good will, many of the people on this site would go through the roof about it.

OP, I posted earlier suggesting that you both sound depressed. It sounds like you guys have had a stressful year in general. Moving is hard on people individually and it's doubly hard on a marriage. It sounds like you felt empowered by the changes you made in your professional life as a result of this move and are sad that your husband has not taken similar steps to better a situation he admits makes him unhappy. What you did was brave. It's sometimes hard for people to be brave like that, especially about something as big as changing jobs. It sounds like he either doesn't feel like he has a viable plan or that he is too scared to execute it. Both of which are unfortunate, but both of which are also understandable, just like your exhaustion with being a cheerleader all the time is understandable. Please give yourself and your husband a break.

I know. You are right. I decidely DO NOT think he has to "earn" my compassion whatever that means. He has it. In spades. Like I said, what I'm short on is patience. And it is affecting my attraction, if I am being honest. And I don't know how to tell him, because I am the world's worst faker in bed.

It has been a big year, and we are still navigating that. I wouldn't say he doesn't have a plan, because he does, and I'm proud of him for that. I just want him to have some confidence that can and will execute on it and come out strong, instead of leaning on me for ego-bolstering so much. I guess I want him to just have that ego, that confidence, naturally inside of himself. It comes and it goes, but I think he generally has less confidence than me and always has. It's just that our current situation is exacerbating that gap. I'm trying to hang in there and not lose my cool.

All of this is really moot.

The bottom line is that you desire is dead. And you think, correctly, that it is because your husband defers to you on too many things including on how to manage his own affairs.

You never answered about what the rest of his life looks like. I am going to guess he needs a general improvement plan. And not one that comes from you, mind you, but one that other men have found to be successful.

Some men really need to be taught how to be men these days.

[Anonymous]

I don't find the original post believable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't find the original post believable.

OP here. Why not? It's all true, at least from my perspective. Calling troll is so lame. . .

[Anonymous]

are "kind" and a "good fuck" two words used to describe the same person ever?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:are "kind" and a "good fuck" two words used to describe the same person ever?

Yes. I am married to someone who is kind to everyone and he's also AMAZING in bed. He's certainly not perfect, but he is both kind and talented in the bedroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:are "kind" and a "good fuck" two words used to describe the same person ever?

Um, seriously? Geez, I feel bad for you if this is your experience.