DH Rant

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To 14:29, an emotionally healthy person doesn't shun others for expressing emotions. We're all human, and we're allowed to feel negative things and ask for support from loved ones.

Sure we are, but humans are also "allowed" to get wet desirous vaginas or not.

Men continuously expressing their weakness is not going to get the tingles going.

FOR YOU. Men expressing vulnerability is not something that is a turn on FOR YOU.

I posted earlier about married to a man who is both kind and an excellent lover. He's my second husband. My first husband was emotionally unavailable and closed off. When DH and I got together, after I'd been divorced for a year, it was amazing to be with someone who actually had an emotional spectrum of any kind.

Not everyone's emotional needs in a relationship are the same. Please stop pretending that what works for you is a fix-all for everyone else in the world.

being vulnerable and being weak are two different things

I agree, but they are often hard to differentiate and both are likely to be categorized as "not being a man" by people on this board, specifically on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP says she wants her man to just decide; but you just know there are times when he chose "incorrectly" and she tore him a new asshole. OP's DH has undoubtedly been inundated with that "happy wife, happy life" bullshit, and he's coming from a place of trying to be accommodating and not be one of those male chauvinist pigs he's probably heard so much about.

One thing this post makes clear is that "communication" is a trap. Guys - keep your fucking problems to yourself. Telling your woman about your fears and uncertainties is sure to make her vagina clang shut instantly.

No. This post makes clear that many couples have communication issues. OP sounds like she is having a hard time articulating her needs to her husband, which may be a result of her belief that he will not take her complaints well. That's understandable, even if her belief is inaccurate.

This post also makes clear the depressing degree that many people on this board believe that gender roles, as outlined by the society in which we live, are immutable and something that everyone cares about and believes in to the same degree. Also that it is impossible to be a good lover if you are also a nice person.

OP, you sound like a good partner who is exhausted from being married to someone who is depressed and professionally stagnant. If you were the only one who had issues with his stagnation, that would be different, but it sounds like he is having trouble executing plans. I have this issue at the moment myself, and my solution in Q1 of 2014 is to get on an anti-depressant and see if that doesn't help lift the fog of exhaustion and uncertainty enough for me to do some of the things I want to do. I can't speak for my personal success, as I only just started today, but you might talk to DH about a solution like this.

We've gone this route already. It's helping, but he's not his old self. Maybe he never will be again and I will have to find a way to adjust. At any rate, good luck PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:23 again-

what you describe is very honest and accurate assessment of a lot of the problems i see in relationships all around me.

I admire you for being able to see that clearly and admit that there are certain things you'd like to see change.

many people (women) would be outraged at the notion that a woman likes to lead at times or that a man should just schedule a date and let you know where to be and what to wear! i've seen it right here on DCUM.

with respect to career talk with wife, i don't ask my wife for input there at all on how to do what i need to do. i do update her time to time on what is going on and if there are major changes coming, discuss them with her and see that we're on the same page. but my career is my career and she knows i'll handle it as best as i can.

OP: what about the other areas of his life? is he in shape? does he take care of himself and his appearance? does he do other things to improve himself and broaden his horizons?

I am going to guess no.

Men have to realize that there is no resting on our laurels. We have to keep improving, have to stay sharp, have to continue being the best man we can be - or nature will take its course and eventually wife will recoil at the notion of us touching them.

Hi, 13:23, it's OP. I didn't see this post originally. The answer to all of your questions is not really. He got really motivated for awhile to take care of himself and get in shape, and then some stressors hit us and he's reverted. I try to be encouraging there but again, I have to tread lightly or I am being a critical bitch and he shuts down. I have strongly encouraged him to go back to school, something he's always wanted to do and that I am willing to support him in doing (financially, emotionally and by picking up the slack at home), but he's waffling there too. I would find his initiative to take that bull by its horns, study hard and kick ass very attractive. I KNOW he could do it.

And you know, your last point is really spot on too. Men expect us to stay thin, attractive, well-dressed, be supermoms, etc etc but fail to realize that we want an attractive partner too, not one who is just resigned to the inevitability of aging. That said, DH does try. I just wish he'd hang in there with me, and I feel like he's not. And I want to help him, but feel like he won't really let me, since all he seems to want is a cheerleader. Any hint of challenging his assumptions, thought process, etc and he gets defensive.

OP, I'm not 13:23, but we've been chatting on this thread all day.

I absolutely completely understand the feeling that he wants a cheerleader. This bothered me about DH (my second husband, who I just posted about being emotional just now). I have learned in the course of our relationship that there are some times when he wants someone to sit down with him and help solve the problems, come up with a game plan, etc. and there are also times when he wants a shoulder to cry on, literally or otherwise. It's often hard to identify which times are which, so I have started asking specifically whether he wants comfort or planning. If he says he just wants comfort, I provide comfort. If he says he needs help sorting out a plan, I do that. If I feel like he is asking for planning and then ignoring the plan and wanting comfort instead, I try to get to the bottom of why it's hard for him to plan, what would make him feel more empowered, etc. In return, if I feel like I need emotional support rather than practical advice, I say that. I say, "DH, I really appreciate your ideas but right now, I'd really just like you to hold me and tell me it's all going to work out. We can talk about HOW it works out later, but right now, I just want comfort."

PP, I hear you. Logically, that's a great approach, and I've tried that. But sometimes I get tired of how much of this squishy touchy-feely we have to do. It's EXHAUSTING, you know? I don't want to feel like I'm in a therapy session in my living room 4-5 times a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To 14:29, an emotionally healthy person doesn't shun others for expressing emotions. We're all human, and we're allowed to feel negative things and ask for support from loved ones.

Sure we are, but humans are also "allowed" to get wet desirous vaginas or not.

Men continuously expressing their weakness is not going to get the tingles going.

FOR YOU. Men expressing vulnerability is not something that is a turn on FOR YOU.

I posted earlier about married to a man who is both kind and an excellent lover. He's my second husband. My first husband was emotionally unavailable and closed off. When DH and I got together, after I'd been divorced for a year, it was amazing to be with someone who actually had an emotional spectrum of any kind.

Not everyone's emotional needs in a relationship are the same. Please stop pretending that what works for you is a fix-all for everyone else in the world.

being vulnerable and being weak are two different things

I agree, but they are often hard to differentiate and both are likely to be categorized as "not being a man" by people on this board, specifically on this thread.

Well I'm the one you're likely thinking about when you say "on this thread" and I want to be clear. Being vulnerable is about being emotionally aware and tuned into the real things that are happening to you and within you - and having the ability to share those feelings with someone. But you can do this with confidence and strength by being honest and true.

Being weak as I described and was described by the OP is about not having confidence and not being honest and not being true. Its about seeking affirmation and relevance rather than expressing a true fear or doubt. Its about not believing in yourself and seeking approval. It can also be about just being a freaking wimp.

And thus, I reiterate, no pussy gets wet for weak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you considered that you might be emotionally unavailable? Many women would like a man willing to talk about his emotions and listen to his partner's. Do you ever express feelings of insecurity or sadness or regret to him? They're there, but you probably pretend to be perfect and flawless instead. When you point fingers at someone else, you should really be looking at yourself first. I learned this the hard way.

I'm plenty emotionally available. We've gone through a lot recently, and just this past weekend he was my shoulder to cry on about something. So see, he can be gallant and kind, and I love him for that. I just don't have to cry on his should about every single freaking thing.

And trust me, I am the last person that ANYONE would ever call perfect or flawless. And I know it.

If you're anything like me, you've tried everything to fill up the empty space where your true self-esteem should be. Not people patting you on the back, or having the best grades, or popularity, or the perfect boyfriend or husband. All I can say is, we can only work on ourselves and making ourselves the most genuine, loving version of our true selves. Once you stop looking elsewhere and trying to change others to suit our needs, life gets better. You can't change your husband. Accept him or move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:23 again-

what you describe is very honest and accurate assessment of a lot of the problems i see in relationships all around me.

I admire you for being able to see that clearly and admit that there are certain things you'd like to see change.

many people (women) would be outraged at the notion that a woman likes to lead at times or that a man should just schedule a date and let you know where to be and what to wear! i've seen it right here on DCUM.

with respect to career talk with wife, i don't ask my wife for input there at all on how to do what i need to do. i do update her time to time on what is going on and if there are major changes coming, discuss them with her and see that we're on the same page. but my career is my career and she knows i'll handle it as best as i can.

OP: what about the other areas of his life? is he in shape? does he take care of himself and his appearance? does he do other things to improve himself and broaden his horizons?

I am going to guess no.

Men have to realize that there is no resting on our laurels. We have to keep improving, have to stay sharp, have to continue being the best man we can be - or nature will take its course and eventually wife will recoil at the notion of us touching them.

Hi, 13:23, it's OP. I didn't see this post originally. The answer to all of your questions is not really. He got really motivated for awhile to take care of himself and get in shape, and then some stressors hit us and he's reverted. I try to be encouraging there but again, I have to tread lightly or I am being a critical bitch and he shuts down. I have strongly encouraged him to go back to school, something he's always wanted to do and that I am willing to support him in doing (financially, emotionally and by picking up the slack at home), but he's waffling there too. I would find his initiative to take that bull by its horns, study hard and kick ass very attractive. I KNOW he could do it.

And you know, your last point is really spot on too. Men expect us to stay thin, attractive, well-dressed, be supermoms, etc etc but fail to realize that we want an attractive partner too, not one who is just resigned to the inevitability of aging. That said, DH does try. I just wish he'd hang in there with me, and I feel like he's not. And I want to help him, but feel like he won't really let me, since all he seems to want is a cheerleader. Any hint of challenging his assumptions, thought process, etc and he gets defensive.

OP, I'm not 13:23, but we've been chatting on this thread all day.

I absolutely completely understand the feeling that he wants a cheerleader. This bothered me about DH (my second husband, who I just posted about being emotional just now). I have learned in the course of our relationship that there are some times when he wants someone to sit down with him and help solve the problems, come up with a game plan, etc. and there are also times when he wants a shoulder to cry on, literally or otherwise. It's often hard to identify which times are which, so I have started asking specifically whether he wants comfort or planning. If he says he just wants comfort, I provide comfort. If he says he needs help sorting out a plan, I do that. If I feel like he is asking for planning and then ignoring the plan and wanting comfort instead, I try to get to the bottom of why it's hard for him to plan, what would make him feel more empowered, etc. In return, if I feel like I need emotional support rather than practical advice, I say that. I say, "DH, I really appreciate your ideas but right now, I'd really just like you to hold me and tell me it's all going to work out. We can talk about HOW it works out later, but right now, I just want comfort."

PP, I hear you. Logically, that's a great approach, and I've tried that. But sometimes I get tired of how much of this squishy touchy-feely we have to do. It's EXHAUSTING, you know? I don't want to feel like I'm in a therapy session in my living room 4-5 times a week.

I completely agree. But as I mentioned earlier, I think you guys are in a period of stress and transition from moving and that a lot of squishy touchy feely is to be expected. Also a fair amount of EXHAUSTING. I completely understand, and I also understand that your whole post was a vent and absolutely respect your need to vent. It sounds like maybe your husband could use a place to vent other than you himself. I would say introduce him to DCUM but like as not, the harpies would eviscerate him in pretty short order.

Have you guys done anything to rekindle the flames? Do you get any time to yourselves? I've never been a big believer in a couples "weekend" because in my experience, if you are exhausted from the daily (emotional) grind, it takes the first day or so to acclimate to not being at home anymore and by the time you're finally emotionally in a position to enjoy yourself and your spouse, it's time to go home. Would it be possible for you to get away for a week or something? It sounds like you could use a break on a beach.

[Anonymous]

How long has he been stuck in a rut and when did you move? I skimmed the whole thread but I can't remember those two details.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, have you considered that you might be emotionally unavailable? Many women would like a man willing to talk about his emotions and listen to his partner's. Do you ever express feelings of insecurity or sadness or regret to him? They're there, but you probably pretend to be perfect and flawless instead. When you point fingers at someone else, you should really be looking at yourself first. I learned this the hard way.

I'm plenty emotionally available. We've gone through a lot recently, and just this past weekend he was my shoulder to cry on about something. So see, he can be gallant and kind, and I love him for that. I just don't have to cry on his should about every single freaking thing.

And trust me, I am the last person that ANYONE would ever call perfect or flawless. And I know it.

If you're anything like me, you've tried everything to fill up the empty space where your true self-esteem should be. Not people patting you on the back, or having the best grades, or popularity, or the perfect boyfriend or husband. All I can say is, we can only work on ourselves and making ourselves the most genuine, loving version of our true selves. Once you stop looking elsewhere and trying to change others to suit our needs, life gets better. You can't change your husband. Accept him or move on.

This is an empty platitude that is not at all helpful. I know that I can't change him. But to simply say that we have to accept others 100% or move on - black or white, this or that - is bullshit IMO. Relationships are complex; they are not black and white. I've already said I don't want a divorce. I have a child. And I know that I would be hard pressed to do better as an overall package. I just want DH to be the best man that I know he can be. I am doing my best to be the best person I can be. Lord knows, DH has brought things to my attention that he felt needed improvement, and I took it to heart. I changed me. I want him to WANT to be at his best, for me. And you know what? He's not at his best. And he knows it. And I think if he was being honest, he would see that he's not doing all he can do. He's making a lot of excuses because status quo is easier than trying hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:13:23 again-

what you describe is very honest and accurate assessment of a lot of the problems i see in relationships all around me.

I admire you for being able to see that clearly and admit that there are certain things you'd like to see change.

many people (women) would be outraged at the notion that a woman likes to lead at times or that a man should just schedule a date and let you know where to be and what to wear! i've seen it right here on DCUM.

with respect to career talk with wife, i don't ask my wife for input there at all on how to do what i need to do. i do update her time to time on what is going on and if there are major changes coming, discuss them with her and see that we're on the same page. but my career is my career and she knows i'll handle it as best as i can.

OP: what about the other areas of his life? is he in shape? does he take care of himself and his appearance? does he do other things to improve himself and broaden his horizons?

I am going to guess no.

Men have to realize that there is no resting on our laurels. We have to keep improving, have to stay sharp, have to continue being the best man we can be - or nature will take its course and eventually wife will recoil at the notion of us touching them.

Hi, 13:23, it's OP. I didn't see this post originally. The answer to all of your questions is not really. He got really motivated for awhile to take care of himself and get in shape, and then some stressors hit us and he's reverted. I try to be encouraging there but again, I have to tread lightly or I am being a critical bitch and he shuts down. I have strongly encouraged him to go back to school, something he's always wanted to do and that I am willing to support him in doing (financially, emotionally and by picking up the slack at home), but he's waffling there too. I would find his initiative to take that bull by its horns, study hard and kick ass very attractive. I KNOW he could do it.

And you know, your last point is really spot on too. Men expect us to stay thin, attractive, well-dressed, be supermoms, etc etc but fail to realize that we want an attractive partner too, not one who is just resigned to the inevitability of aging. That said, DH does try. I just wish he'd hang in there with me, and I feel like he's not. And I want to help him, but feel like he won't really let me, since all he seems to want is a cheerleader. Any hint of challenging his assumptions, thought process, etc and he gets defensive.

OP, I'm not 13:23, but we've been chatting on this thread all day.

I absolutely completely understand the feeling that he wants a cheerleader. This bothered me about DH (my second husband, who I just posted about being emotional just now). I have learned in the course of our relationship that there are some times when he wants someone to sit down with him and help solve the problems, come up with a game plan, etc. and there are also times when he wants a shoulder to cry on, literally or otherwise. It's often hard to identify which times are which, so I have started asking specifically whether he wants comfort or planning. If he says he just wants comfort, I provide comfort. If he says he needs help sorting out a plan, I do that. If I feel like he is asking for planning and then ignoring the plan and wanting comfort instead, I try to get to the bottom of why it's hard for him to plan, what would make him feel more empowered, etc. In return, if I feel like I need emotional support rather than practical advice, I say that. I say, "DH, I really appreciate your ideas but right now, I'd really just like you to hold me and tell me it's all going to work out. We can talk about HOW it works out later, but right now, I just want comfort."

PP, I hear you. Logically, that's a great approach, and I've tried that. But sometimes I get tired of how much of this squishy touchy-feely we have to do. It's EXHAUSTING, you know? I don't want to feel like I'm in a therapy session in my living room 4-5 times a week.

I completely agree. But as I mentioned earlier, I think you guys are in a period of stress and transition from moving and that a lot of squishy touchy feely is to be expected. Also a fair amount of EXHAUSTING. I completely understand, and I also understand that your whole post was a vent and absolutely respect your need to vent. It sounds like maybe your husband could use a place to vent other than you himself. I would say introduce him to DCUM but like as not, the harpies would eviscerate him in pretty short order.

Have you guys done anything to rekindle the flames? Do you get any time to yourselves? I've never been a big believer in a couples "weekend" because in my experience, if you are exhausted from the daily (emotional) grind, it takes the first day or so to acclimate to not being at home anymore and by the time you're finally emotionally in a position to enjoy yourself and your spouse, it's time to go home. Would it be possible for you to get away for a week or something? It sounds like you could use a break on a beach.

We can't do a beach right now (new job for me and no vacation days during probation period), but maybe a weekend in a nearby city. It would be "away" anyway. But yes, I think we are overdue for a whole week to ourselves, and luckily I have family who would be willing to help make that happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How long has he been stuck in a rut and when did you move? I skimmed the whole thread but I can't remember those two details.

Um, a year and a half? Two years? It's been up and down a bit in that time, but overall that's when the changes started happening. We moved about 6 months ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I like alpha males. I absolutely hate insecure emasculated men. They're worthless both in the boardroom and the bedroom. They might as well bend over and join the other team.

Is a wife's success "emasculating?" Seriously men, weigh in here. Why marry an intelligent, educated and accomplished woman if you are only going to act like babies when she does well, insisting that she's "emasculated" you? I don't get it.

Can't speak for all men but for me, an educated and successful woman is a huge turn on - wouldn't date a trophy with beans for brains and no ambition. I married one. We both made ridiculous amounts of money (both incomes just about the same), luxury cars, great savings plans, vacations around the world, intimacy, openness was good before kids. But the problem is that her personality was such that nothing (professionally, personally, before and after kids) was ever good enough - she always needed more and more. it just got to be too much.

that is the thing many highly intelligent and successful women don't get. what is enough for you? do you know what exactly makes you happy and have you clearly communicated that to your BF/DH/SO? It's not a woman's success that is emasculating (at least for) but that she herself doesn't know what she wants - and men are left guessing and guessing, often times getting it wrong and getting beat up over it (it starts slowly and builds and builds). In my case it wasn't until after the divorce that I understood. Though we are still very good friends I think how in the world did I put up with that for 14 years?

I do post here a times and give the same advice for folks separated or recently divorced - heal yourself, get to a good place, forgive and move from the past and know what you want in order to move forward. This is what I look for now that I'm dating again - I will still date well educated and successful women but I'm also carefully on the look out for the signs that got me in trouble with the original love of my life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I like alpha males. I absolutely hate insecure emasculated men. They're worthless both in the boardroom and the bedroom. They might as well bend over and join the other team.

Is a wife's success "emasculating?" Seriously men, weigh in here. Why marry an intelligent, educated and accomplished woman if you are only going to act like babies when she does well, insisting that she's "emasculated" you? I don't get it.

Can't speak for all men but for me, an educated and successful woman is a huge turn on - wouldn't date a trophy with beans for brains and no ambition. I married one. We both made ridiculous amounts of money (both incomes just about the same), luxury cars, great savings plans, vacations around the world, intimacy, openness was good before kids. But the problem is that her personality was such that nothing (professionally, personally, before and after kids) was ever good enough - she always needed more and more. it just got to be too much.

that is the thing many highly intelligent and successful women don't get. what is enough for you? do you know what exactly makes you happy and have you clearly communicated that to your BF/DH/SO? It's not a woman's success that is emasculating (at least for) but that she herself doesn't know what she wants - and men are left guessing and guessing, often times getting it wrong and getting beat up over it (it starts slowly and builds and builds). In my case it wasn't until after the divorce that I understood. Though we are still very good friends I think how in the world did I put up with that for 14 years?

I do post here a times and give the same advice for folks separated or recently divorced - heal yourself, get to a good place, forgive and move from the past and know what you want in order to move forward. This is what I look for now that I'm dating again - I will still date well educated and successful women but I'm also carefully on the look out for the signs that got me in trouble with the original love of my life.

What specifically wasn't good enough for your wife? OP here and I'm trying to determine if you mean materially or in terms of you personally. I'm willing to do some soul searching; I know I'm not easy.

[Anonymous]

NP. How do you tell him? I think you make two things clear.

1. What you just said about confidence in him. You trust him and his judgement, etc.
2. You only have the mental space for so much decision making. He needs to bear the burden of some of it. Divvy it up. Treat it like you would household chores, with a list of responsibilities for each of you.

This can all be said in a way that makes him feel strong, not bullied.

[Anonymous]

at first it was little things - if I bought tickets to a show, then it's we need to X, Y and Z shows - or let's go to NY to see the show and make a weekend out of it (difficult for me to on a regular basis due to heavy travel for work). I took many decisions (I'm an "alpha" - sometimes too cocky) but it wasn't the "right" decision - so after many years I stopped since it wasn't to her liking.

but then it grew worse after the kids. With two demanding careers (and my travel takes me abroad 2 weeks out of every 6), I took on more logistics with the kid so she could get back on her career path (her choice, which I supported) - it was exhausting and the world could see it except for her. But that only led to resentment because the weekends were not full of enough 'social' activities. It led to a breakdown in communication and eventually further downhill from there.

But after all is said and done, I am equally to blame and I made my fair share of mistakes and I was 50% responsible for her to stray (EA for sure, but not PA I think) before we divorced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. How do you tell him? I think you make two things clear.

1. What you just said about confidence in him. You trust him and his judgement, etc.
2. You only have the mental space for so much decision making. He needs to bear the burden of some of it. Divvy it up. Treat it like you would household chores, with a list of responsibilities for each of you.

This can all be said in a way that makes him feel strong, not bullied.

Are you a man? I'm asking because I asked that question in the context of our sex life, which has not been good. Not as frequent or satisfying. He's no dummy and he's noticed because, as I said, I am a horrible faker (and reallly, that should be a good thing, yes?). When I get asked point blank if I'm not turned on by him anymore, it's the one time I get good at faking real quick. How can I say well, yes? And here's why I think that's happening? Believe it or not, I am not some bitch out to emasculate my husband. I love him. He is a great person, and I don't want to hurt him. But there it is. All of the things I've articulated here are killing my desire for him. And we are too young for that shit and have way too much of the future before us to just let that dog lie.

Now I know someone will suggest couples counseling.