Anyone’s exDH try to use family caregiving for custody?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure he doesn’t plan to remarry quickly? Then the new wife would simply continue instead of grandma.

This is the most pressing concern. The grandmother is red herring. He could easily be planning to have a girlfriend watch the kids while he travels.

You should definitely ask for right of first refusal.

I agree. I think the ex may get 50/50 (it's presumed in many places, including where I am) but there should be a right of first refusal clause in there. The child should defenitely be with a parent if the other one is away. And the ex would still have 50/50. OP, you could set the ROFR for 8 hours, so if exdh leaves to travel, it would trigger it, but if your mom is watching dc for a few hours, it won't.

There is no reason mil should be caring for dc if a parent is available. It's in dc's best interest to have time with both parents.

I doubt that a parent that is going to be foreseeably absent during their sought after custody time would actually get it for sure. This is a question for OP’s lawyer.

Yes, it is a question for the lawyer-but in many places, it would not matter. OP knows that the ex travels and she needs to consider rofr so dc can be with their parent, rather than mil or random gf's, because that is in the dc's best interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure he doesn’t plan to remarry quickly? Then the new wife would simply continue instead of grandma.

This is the most pressing concern. The grandmother is red herring. He could easily be planning to have a girlfriend watch the kids while he travels.

You should definitely ask for right of first refusal.

I agree. I think the ex may get 50/50 (it's presumed in many places, including where I am) but there should be a right of first refusal clause in there. The child should defenitely be with a parent if the other one is away. And the ex would still have 50/50. OP, you could set the ROFR for 8 hours, so if exdh leaves to travel, it would trigger it, but if your mom is watching dc for a few hours, it won't.

There is no reason mil should be caring for dc if a parent is available. It's in dc's best interest to have time with both parents.

I doubt that a parent that is going to be foreseeably absent during their sought after custody time would actually get it for sure. This is a question for OP’s lawyer.

Yes, it is a question for the lawyer-but in many places, it would not matter. OP knows that the ex travels and she needs to consider rofr so dc can be with their parent, rather than mil or random gf's, because that is in the dc's best interest.

Anyone who argues a child being with her grandmother is against the child’s best interests is going to be laughed out of court. What an absurd contention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure he doesn’t plan to remarry quickly? Then the new wife would simply continue instead of grandma.

This is the most pressing concern. The grandmother is red herring. He could easily be planning to have a girlfriend watch the kids while he travels.

You should definitely ask for right of first refusal.

I agree. I think the ex may get 50/50 (it's presumed in many places, including where I am) but there should be a right of first refusal clause in there. The child should defenitely be with a parent if the other one is away. And the ex would still have 50/50. OP, you could set the ROFR for 8 hours, so if exdh leaves to travel, it would trigger it, but if your mom is watching dc for a few hours, it won't.

There is no reason mil should be caring for dc if a parent is available. It's in dc's best interest to have time with both parents.

I doubt that a parent that is going to be foreseeably absent during their sought after custody time would actually get it for sure. This is a question for OP’s lawyer.

Yes, it is a question for the lawyer-but in many places, it would not matter. OP knows that the ex travels and she needs to consider rofr so dc can be with their parent, rather than mil or random gf's, because that is in the dc's best interest.

Anyone who argues a child being with her grandmother is against the child’s best interests is going to be laughed out of court. What an absurd contention.

Um, anyone who argues that a child being with someone other than their available and willing parent is absurd and the judge will not be amused.

[Anonymous]

OP, you mentioned in your previous thread that prior to the divorce papers being filed, you’d all moved out of state for your DH’s job and that your current job is in sales. How will you manage the logistics when you need to travel? Are you all staying in the same locale?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure he doesn’t plan to remarry quickly? Then the new wife would simply continue instead of grandma.

This is the most pressing concern. The grandmother is red herring. He could easily be planning to have a girlfriend watch the kids while he travels.

You should definitely ask for right of first refusal.

I agree. I think the ex may get 50/50 (it's presumed in many places, including where I am) but there should be a right of first refusal clause in there. The child should defenitely be with a parent if the other one is away. And the ex would still have 50/50. OP, you could set the ROFR for 8 hours, so if exdh leaves to travel, it would trigger it, but if your mom is watching dc for a few hours, it won't.

There is no reason mil should be caring for dc if a parent is available. It's in dc's best interest to have time with both parents.

I doubt that a parent that is going to be foreseeably absent during their sought after custody time would actually get it for sure. This is a question for OP’s lawyer.

Yes, it is a question for the lawyer-but in many places, it would not matter. OP knows that the ex travels and she needs to consider rofr so dc can be with their parent, rather than mil or random gf's, because that is in the dc's best interest.

I don’t think that blanket assertion is correct. For example is a presumption of “joint custody” in DC law. This does not mean 50-50 automatically because the judge has discretion based on the best interests of the child. 50% physical time is not a right of the parent alone - it is the child’s best interests that is the “primary consideration.” Then there is a long list of factors that the judge can consider including the “demands of parental employment” and the parents’ prior degree of involvement in childcare.
So yes, in DC anyway, OP could make a strong argument to the court that she should get custody on days when her ex travels or that she should get more than 50% and her ex can plan his travel schedule around his more limited custody time.

Of course OP doesn’t plan on going to court (hopefully) but the settlement is negotiated based on the background law - which in DC definitely would consider her ex’s plan to be absent for a significant portion of his custody time due to his job.

OP would be very reasonable to request a right of first refusal for overnight absences. It can be drafted in a way that still allows the kids to have reasonable overnight visits with grandparents and relatives from time to time. And it does not necessarily need to be completely mirror-image because OP doesn’t have a plan to be absent for her custody days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure he doesn’t plan to remarry quickly? Then the new wife would simply continue instead of grandma.

This is the most pressing concern. The grandmother is red herring. He could easily be planning to have a girlfriend watch the kids while he travels.

You should definitely ask for right of first refusal.

I agree. I think the ex may get 50/50 (it's presumed in many places, including where I am) but there should be a right of first refusal clause in there. The child should defenitely be with a parent if the other one is away. And the ex would still have 50/50. OP, you could set the ROFR for 8 hours, so if exdh leaves to travel, it would trigger it, but if your mom is watching dc for a few hours, it won't.

There is no reason mil should be caring for dc if a parent is available. It's in dc's best interest to have time with both parents.

I doubt that a parent that is going to be foreseeably absent during their sought after custody time would actually get it for sure. This is a question for OP’s lawyer.

Yes, it is a question for the lawyer-but in many places, it would not matter. OP knows that the ex travels and she needs to consider rofr so dc can be with their parent, rather than mil or random gf's, because that is in the dc's best interest.

Anyone who argues a child being with her grandmother is against the child’s best interests is going to be laughed out of court. What an absurd contention.

Um, anyone who argues that a child being with someone other than their available and willing parent is absurd and the judge will not be amused.

You’re completely wrong. A grandparent caring for their grandchild is fine. Any judge will agree and will 100% see through the vindictiveness and manipulative impulses of people like you and OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure he doesn’t plan to remarry quickly? Then the new wife would simply continue instead of grandma.

This is the most pressing concern. The grandmother is red herring. He could easily be planning to have a girlfriend watch the kids while he travels.

You should definitely ask for right of first refusal.

I agree. I think the ex may get 50/50 (it's presumed in many places, including where I am) but there should be a right of first refusal clause in there. The child should defenitely be with a parent if the other one is away. And the ex would still have 50/50. OP, you could set the ROFR for 8 hours, so if exdh leaves to travel, it would trigger it, but if your mom is watching dc for a few hours, it won't.

There is no reason mil should be caring for dc if a parent is available. It's in dc's best interest to have time with both parents.

I doubt that a parent that is going to be foreseeably absent during their sought after custody time would actually get it for sure. This is a question for OP’s lawyer.

Yes, it is a question for the lawyer-but in many places, it would not matter. OP knows that the ex travels and she needs to consider rofr so dc can be with their parent, rather than mil or random gf's, because that is in the dc's best interest.

Anyone who argues a child being with her grandmother is against the child’s best interests is going to be laughed out of court. What an absurd contention.

Um, anyone who argues that a child being with someone other than their available and willing parent is absurd and the judge will not be amused.

You’re completely wrong. A grandparent caring for their grandchild is fine. Any judge will agree and will 100% see through the vindictiveness and manipulative impulses of people like you and OP.

You're completely wrong. A grandparent does not have equal standing with parenting time and the child's parent is available and willing. You are literally giving false advice, not sure if you know it's incorrect or just want it a certain way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure he doesn’t plan to remarry quickly? Then the new wife would simply continue instead of grandma.

This is the most pressing concern. The grandmother is red herring. He could easily be planning to have a girlfriend watch the kids while he travels.

You should definitely ask for right of first refusal.

Op said several pages ago “No way am I going to contort myself to fit his travel schedule after divorce as if we’re still married and then sacrifice the career I need to survive just to appease his need to look like a good dad while he is unwilling to sacrifice a single thing to see his kids. There are a million jobs that pay quite well for someone like him that don’t require travel every week or every other week. He just can’t put his ego and need for external validation above his responsibility to his kids.”

She has no need to ask for right if first refusal since she’s clear she doesn’t want to be flexible to additional custody time.

[Anonymous]

ROFR is an invitation for conflict. He knows when you travel, you know when he travels, inevitably someone holds the parent’s work schedule over their head. My sister’s ex was so vindictive about ROFR that she ended up having to leave her (well-paid) job with quarterly overnight travel, to take something much lower paid with less travel. The court did not impute income, so child support went up.

I would leave it out completely. But if you need to put it in:

1. I would allow grandparent care before ROFR kicks in (assuming the relationship with the child is good and grandma is competent). Routine is important for kids, friends, schools, coaches, etc. If Larla usually sleeps at Mom’s house on Tuesday night, I would try to keep Larla sleeping at Mom’s house on Tuesday nights, even if that means Grandma is the adult in the house.
2. I would require mandatory swap time for work travel, within 30 days. So if Dad has Wednesday/Thursday, and he has to travel, and mom takes ROFR, Dad should get the next Monday/Tuesday. You want to incentivize both parents to achieve their full earning capacity, and courts really want kids to have regular access to both parents. If the travel becomes excessive (ie, Dad is missing weeks of parenting at a time, despite offered swaps), then you look at the parenting schedule.
3. I would not require swap time for personal travel on a 50/50 schedule. Dad can schedule his trips with his new girlfriend on his time.
4. Eventually there might be stepparents. I personally would not add stepparents to list of pre-ROFR list unless both parents agree. I think it opens up too much risk (mostly of accusation and conflict, but also perhaps harm).
5. Set your ROFR hours for overnights: six hours between 10 pm and 6 am, similar. You want to be able to get a short-term sitter (or stepparent in this case) if you have a work dinner or early meeting, without disrupting the child’s schedule. You also don’t want to fight about if before/after school care or activities count as being unable to parent.
6. Set an age at which this expires, probably around 16.
7. Set an exclusion for sleepovers and summer sleep away camp after age 10 (or whatever you are comfortable with). You want your child to be able to attend sleepaway camp if that’s what they want to do, without the other parent saying they will take the kid that week, since you are unable.

Basically, ROFR kicks in when the custodial parent or grandparent is unable to care for the child for six hours between 10 pm and 6 am because of work travel, until the child is 16. Sleepovers, sports/activity travel, and summer camp for the child does not require ROFR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ROFR is an invitation for conflict. He knows when you travel, you know when he travels, inevitably someone holds the parent’s work schedule over their head. My sister’s ex was so vindictive about ROFR that she ended up having to leave her (well-paid) job with quarterly overnight travel, to take something much lower paid with less travel. The court did not impute income, so child support went up.

I would leave it out completely. But if you need to put it in:

1. I would allow grandparent care before ROFR kicks in (assuming the relationship with the child is good and grandma is competent). Routine is important for kids, friends, schools, coaches, etc. If Larla usually sleeps at Mom’s house on Tuesday night, I would try to keep Larla sleeping at Mom’s house on Tuesday nights, even if that means Grandma is the adult in the house.
2. I would require mandatory swap time for work travel, within 30 days. So if Dad has Wednesday/Thursday, and he has to travel, and mom takes ROFR, Dad should get the next Monday/Tuesday. You want to incentivize both parents to achieve their full earning capacity, and courts really want kids to have regular access to both parents. If the travel becomes excessive (ie, Dad is missing weeks of parenting at a time, despite offered swaps), then you look at the parenting schedule.
3. I would not require swap time for personal travel on a 50/50 schedule. Dad can schedule his trips with his new girlfriend on his time.
4. Eventually there might be stepparents. I personally would not add stepparents to list of pre-ROFR list unless both parents agree. I think it opens up too much risk (mostly of accusation and conflict, but also perhaps harm).
5. Set your ROFR hours for overnights: six hours between 10 pm and 6 am, similar. You want to be able to get a short-term sitter (or stepparent in this case) if you have a work dinner or early meeting, without disrupting the child’s schedule. You also don’t want to fight about if before/after school care or activities count as being unable to parent.
6. Set an age at which this expires, probably around 16.
7. Set an exclusion for sleepovers and summer sleep away camp after age 10 (or whatever you are comfortable with). You want your child to be able to attend sleepaway camp if that’s what they want to do, without the other parent saying they will take the kid that week, since you are unable.

Basically, ROFR kicks in when the custodial parent or grandparent is unable to care for the child for six hours between 10 pm and 6 am because of work travel, until the child is 16. Sleepovers, sports/activity travel, and summer camp for the child does not require ROFR.

I disagree with the compensating time unless OP wants that. Dad here is pushing an unrealistic schedule because he knows he travels regularly for work. Compensating time would be destabilizing for the kids and make it hard for OP to plan. The better result would be dad getting a smaller amount of custody time to reflect that his job requirements are incompatible with 50% custody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ROFR is an invitation for conflict. He knows when you travel, you know when he travels, inevitably someone holds the parent’s work schedule over their head. My sister’s ex was so vindictive about ROFR that she ended up having to leave her (well-paid) job with quarterly overnight travel, to take something much lower paid with less travel. The court did not impute income, so child support went up.

I would leave it out completely. But if you need to put it in:

1. I would allow grandparent care before ROFR kicks in (assuming the relationship with the child is good and grandma is competent). Routine is important for kids, friends, schools, coaches, etc. If Larla usually sleeps at Mom’s house on Tuesday night, I would try to keep Larla sleeping at Mom’s house on Tuesday nights, even if that means Grandma is the adult in the house.
2. I would require mandatory swap time for work travel, within 30 days. So if Dad has Wednesday/Thursday, and he has to travel, and mom takes ROFR, Dad should get the next Monday/Tuesday. You want to incentivize both parents to achieve their full earning capacity, and courts really want kids to have regular access to both parents. If the travel becomes excessive (ie, Dad is missing weeks of parenting at a time, despite offered swaps), then you look at the parenting schedule.
3. I would not require swap time for personal travel on a 50/50 schedule. Dad can schedule his trips with his new girlfriend on his time.
4. Eventually there might be stepparents. I personally would not add stepparents to list of pre-ROFR list unless both parents agree. I think it opens up too much risk (mostly of accusation and conflict, but also perhaps harm).
5. Set your ROFR hours for overnights: six hours between 10 pm and 6 am, similar. You want to be able to get a short-term sitter (or stepparent in this case) if you have a work dinner or early meeting, without disrupting the child’s schedule. You also don’t want to fight about if before/after school care or activities count as being unable to parent.
6. Set an age at which this expires, probably around 16.
7. Set an exclusion for sleepovers and summer sleep away camp after age 10 (or whatever you are comfortable with). You want your child to be able to attend sleepaway camp if that’s what they want to do, without the other parent saying they will take the kid that week, since you are unable.

Basically, ROFR kicks in when the custodial parent or grandparent is unable to care for the child for six hours between 10 pm and 6 am because of work travel, until the child is 16. Sleepovers, sports/activity travel, and summer camp for the child does not require ROFR.

I disagree with the compensating time unless OP wants that. Dad here is pushing an unrealistic schedule because he knows he travels regularly for work. Compensating time would be destabilizing for the kids and make it hard for OP to plan. The better result would be dad getting a smaller amount of custody time to reflect that his job requirements are incompatible with 50% custody.

Also for a younger child - having ROFR start at 10pm essentially means that dad might never see the kids at all because he would “work late” until after bedtime.

I’m not sure where this idea that 50% is set in stone entered the discourse. A judge could take into account the dad’s inability to take his custody hours due to work travel. OP should negotiate accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ROFR is an invitation for conflict. He knows when you travel, you know when he travels, inevitably someone holds the parent’s work schedule over their head. My sister’s ex was so vindictive about ROFR that she ended up having to leave her (well-paid) job with quarterly overnight travel, to take something much lower paid with less travel. The court did not impute income, so child support went up.

I would leave it out completely. But if you need to put it in:

1. I would allow grandparent care before ROFR kicks in (assuming the relationship with the child is good and grandma is competent). Routine is important for kids, friends, schools, coaches, etc. If Larla usually sleeps at Mom’s house on Tuesday night, I would try to keep Larla sleeping at Mom’s house on Tuesday nights, even if that means Grandma is the adult in the house.
2. I would require mandatory swap time for work travel, within 30 days. So if Dad has Wednesday/Thursday, and he has to travel, and mom takes ROFR, Dad should get the next Monday/Tuesday. You want to incentivize both parents to achieve their full earning capacity, and courts really want kids to have regular access to both parents. If the travel becomes excessive (ie, Dad is missing weeks of parenting at a time, despite offered swaps), then you look at the parenting schedule.
3. I would not require swap time for personal travel on a 50/50 schedule. Dad can schedule his trips with his new girlfriend on his time.
4. Eventually there might be stepparents. I personally would not add stepparents to list of pre-ROFR list unless both parents agree. I think it opens up too much risk (mostly of accusation and conflict, but also perhaps harm).
5. Set your ROFR hours for overnights: six hours between 10 pm and 6 am, similar. You want to be able to get a short-term sitter (or stepparent in this case) if you have a work dinner or early meeting, without disrupting the child’s schedule. You also don’t want to fight about if before/after school care or activities count as being unable to parent.
6. Set an age at which this expires, probably around 16.
7. Set an exclusion for sleepovers and summer sleep away camp after age 10 (or whatever you are comfortable with). You want your child to be able to attend sleepaway camp if that’s what they want to do, without the other parent saying they will take the kid that week, since you are unable.

Basically, ROFR kicks in when the custodial parent or grandparent is unable to care for the child for six hours between 10 pm and 6 am because of work travel, until the child is 16. Sleepovers, sports/activity travel, and summer camp for the child does not require ROFR.

I disagree with the compensating time unless OP wants that. Dad here is pushing an unrealistic schedule because he knows he travels regularly for work. Compensating time would be destabilizing for the kids and make it hard for OP to plan. The better result would be dad getting a smaller amount of custody time to reflect that his job requirements are incompatible with 50% custody.

Sure. But digging in costs OP money. Just propose something with reasonable and explicit boundaries and move on. Give him a chance to fail and then go back for modification.

[Anonymous]

It depends on where OP lives/case is. Many places presume 50/50 and a parent traveling for work won't be held against them if they make childcare arrangements. That arrangement may be the other parent (if they are available and willing) or the mil, or whomever they choose.

This is where ROFR comes in. If they have it, then OP would be the first choice for childcare when ex is traveling-if she is willing. If she isn't, then he can have whomever he chooses caring for dc in his absence.

If OP lives where 50/50 isn't the norm, then there may be a custody battle. She should probably consult a few lawyers in her area to assess her case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ROFR is an invitation for conflict. He knows when you travel, you know when he travels, inevitably someone holds the parent’s work schedule over their head. My sister’s ex was so vindictive about ROFR that she ended up having to leave her (well-paid) job with quarterly overnight travel, to take something much lower paid with less travel. The court did not impute income, so child support went up.

I would leave it out completely. But if you need to put it in:

1. I would allow grandparent care before ROFR kicks in (assuming the relationship with the child is good and grandma is competent). Routine is important for kids, friends, schools, coaches, etc. If Larla usually sleeps at Mom’s house on Tuesday night, I would try to keep Larla sleeping at Mom’s house on Tuesday nights, even if that means Grandma is the adult in the house.
2. I would require mandatory swap time for work travel, within 30 days. So if Dad has Wednesday/Thursday, and he has to travel, and mom takes ROFR, Dad should get the next Monday/Tuesday. You want to incentivize both parents to achieve their full earning capacity, and courts really want kids to have regular access to both parents. If the travel becomes excessive (ie, Dad is missing weeks of parenting at a time, despite offered swaps), then you look at the parenting schedule.
3. I would not require swap time for personal travel on a 50/50 schedule. Dad can schedule his trips with his new girlfriend on his time.
4. Eventually there might be stepparents. I personally would not add stepparents to list of pre-ROFR list unless both parents agree. I think it opens up too much risk (mostly of accusation and conflict, but also perhaps harm).
5. Set your ROFR hours for overnights: six hours between 10 pm and 6 am, similar. You want to be able to get a short-term sitter (or stepparent in this case) if you have a work dinner or early meeting, without disrupting the child’s schedule. You also don’t want to fight about if before/after school care or activities count as being unable to parent.
6. Set an age at which this expires, probably around 16.
7. Set an exclusion for sleepovers and summer sleep away camp after age 10 (or whatever you are comfortable with). You want your child to be able to attend sleepaway camp if that’s what they want to do, without the other parent saying they will take the kid that week, since you are unable.

Basically, ROFR kicks in when the custodial parent or grandparent is unable to care for the child for six hours between 10 pm and 6 am because of work travel, until the child is 16. Sleepovers, sports/activity travel, and summer camp for the child does not require ROFR.

I disagree with the compensating time unless OP wants that. Dad here is pushing an unrealistic schedule because he knows he travels regularly for work. Compensating time would be destabilizing for the kids and make it hard for OP to plan. The better result would be dad getting a smaller amount of custody time to reflect that his job requirements are incompatible with 50% custody.

Sure. But digging in costs OP money. Just propose something with reasonable and explicit boundaries and move on. Give him a chance to fail and then go back for modification.

That’s a really dumb plan. The standard for modification is high in most jurisdictions and that will cost more money than just negotiating assertively at this point. OP’s proposal WOULD be reasonable- what is unreasonable is her ex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure he doesn’t plan to remarry quickly? Then the new wife would simply continue instead of grandma.

This is the most pressing concern. The grandmother is red herring. He could easily be planning to have a girlfriend watch the kids while he travels.

You should definitely ask for right of first refusal.

Op said several pages ago “No way am I going to contort myself to fit his travel schedule after divorce as if we’re still married and then sacrifice the career I need to survive just to appease his need to look like a good dad while he is unwilling to sacrifice a single thing to see his kids. There are a million jobs that pay quite well for someone like him that don’t require travel every week or every other week. He just can’t put his ego and need for external validation above his responsibility to his kids.”

She has no need to ask for right if first refusal since she’s clear she doesn’t want to be flexible to additional custody time.

This is a good point. It sounds like OP wants 50/50 with no right of first refusal, even if she can’t articulate it.