Anyone’s exDH try to use family caregiving for custody?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was in a similar situation. You have to let it go. It won’t last long.

Any survival tips?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a practical standpoint, if she lives in the UK, how often do you think it is even possible that she will be taking care of your kids.

I wouldn't add anything in for those rare occasions.

+1 I wouldn't get into a tit for tat about mother in laws when yours is on another continent and his is likely to be living in the same house as the child soon. Concentrate on keeping things amicable so that it will naturally make more sense in his mind to call you when he's called out of town, before booking a plane ticket.

I’m OP and you have it mixed up. STBexMIL lives permanently in the Uk. DH would fly her the 6 hours or whatever whenever he had a work trip so she could babysit. And then fly her back to the UK. She is the primary caregiver for another grandchild there.

My mom is local. She does not live with us, and probably won’t for 3-4 years. I don’t anticipate her providing childcare ever but am concerned about my child being a teen one day and wanting to stay home alone and not being able to if she does move in with us.

This will sort itself out. UK Granny will do this 1-2x and you’ll end up with the kids.

Play the long game.

This, he will still get his "appearances and pride" with this.

Oh, look how wonderful he is, he's such a devoted dad, has 50/50 custody even with his packed schedule, and he makes soooo much money, look how he flew grandma from the UK, isn't that nice, what a great guy! (Meanwhile he did it twice out of eight work trips, is getting discounted child support, and the time he does spend with the kid he's probably on his work phone)

OP and yeah, I think you summed it up pretty nicely here. I pray that it will be twice out of eight work trips. The reality is more like 20-30 trips per year and even if she only covered 25% of them that would still be a ton of time. And I won’t be able to renegotiate child support without returning to court, which will be expensive and require a track record of him regularly bailing on visitation for an extended period of time. My state is every 2 years for child support modification barring a “significant” change in circumstances, and that would be totally missed visitation, not bailing out half the time for travel.

He’s kind of got a brilliant plan here.

There's been some good advice in the thread. See if you can get a right of first refusal over a certain length of time, say for anything involving overnight.

[Anonymous]

I doubt his mother (who also provides childcare in the UK) wants to fly over and provide childcare here twice a month if he is travelling 25-30 times a year. The jet lag, UK responsibilities and never being in one place for more than a week or so would not be sustainable.

But childcare is part of the reality of most divorced families. Most parents work to financially provide for themselves and their kids and that means their kids need childcare - daycare, extended family, before and afterschool pprgrams, babysitters, nannies etc. Needing childcare doesn't make one a bad parent and if you approach it that way, you will look petty. Many people have grandparents who support them with childcare.

Also given his mother currently provides childcare to a grandchild, I don't think you can argue she is too frail or unwell to be capable of doing so for this grandchild.

[Anonymous]

As someone said: play the long game here. Does your kid have a bond with MIL? Do you see her ever having one? Do you see her going there when she is 12/13? She may just refuse to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Talk to him about it and offer to change parenting days when he travels. If its not ok his mom care for the kids, why is it ok yours care when she's not doing well herself and cannot actually care for the kids. You both need a real and realistic back up plan.

Mine doesn’t even live with us and wouldn’t care for DC. DC is 8. I’m just imagining a future when DC is 13 and my mom has moved in and DC can’t stay home “alone” like a normal 13 year old for a few hours because they would be technically in the house with my mom so DH could trigger ROFR.

If your concern is only that grandma comes when he is on business trips, can't you set the threshold for ROFR as "overnight" or maybe as 2 nights?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a lot of this is about him looking good and being rich presumably at your expense. If you end up more time he has to pay more because you are incurring the expenses, no? Ask your lawyer.

Yes but first I have to document over time and then go back for modification which can only be done after a 2 year period unless he egregiously skipped out on visitation.

Do you care more about money or your kids? You will likely get them more than he does, which is great, but no court is going to award you more than 50/50 custody anyway so I’d lay low and let him feel like he is winning while I enjoyed extra time with my kids. Meanwhile, you win because you get precious time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a practical standpoint, if she lives in the UK, how often do you think it is even possible that she will be taking care of your kids.

I wouldn't add anything in for those rare occasions.

+1 I wouldn't get into a tit for tat about mother in laws when yours is on another continent and his is likely to be living in the same house as the child soon. Concentrate on keeping things amicable so that it will naturally make more sense in his mind to call you when he's called out of town, before booking a plane ticket.

I’m OP and you have it mixed up. STBexMIL lives permanently in the Uk. DH would fly her the 6 hours or whatever whenever he had a work trip so she could babysit. And then fly her back to the UK. She is the primary caregiver for another grandchild there.

My mom is local. She does not live with us, and probably won’t for 3-4 years. I don’t anticipate her providing childcare ever but am concerned about my child being a teen one day and wanting to stay home alone and not being able to if she does move in with us.

You concerns are NOT valid. I'm from Europe, and I lived in the UK. Even in first class and private chauffeur, with jet lag and everything, this is not happening for babysitting. You need to pack, get to the bloody airport early, go through the hassle of security, not sleep on the flight, arrive at the airport, get driven to the house, be exhausted and out of whack... Maybe she'll try it once and that's it. If your MIL has access to a private jet and doesn't need to go through the usual terminal and security lines like the plebes, OK, maaaybe. Just maaaybe. It would still be a stretch.

Your mother might never move in with you - I highly recommend against it, OP - so this is moot for the current agreement.

You and your husband are LOONY to think like this. Just agree to the custody plan and expect that when he decides to travel, he will call you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a practical standpoint, if she lives in the UK, how often do you think it is even possible that she will be taking care of your kids.

I wouldn't add anything in for those rare occasions.

+1 I wouldn't get into a tit for tat about mother in laws when yours is on another continent and his is likely to be living in the same house as the child soon. Concentrate on keeping things amicable so that it will naturally make more sense in his mind to call you when he's called out of town, before booking a plane ticket.

I’m OP and you have it mixed up. STBexMIL lives permanently in the Uk. DH would fly her the 6 hours or whatever whenever he had a work trip so she could babysit. And then fly her back to the UK. She is the primary caregiver for another grandchild there.

My mom is local. She does not live with us, and probably won’t for 3-4 years. I don’t anticipate her providing childcare ever but am concerned about my child being a teen one day and wanting to stay home alone and not being able to if she does move in with us.

That's literally what I said. Don't get into a tit for tat about mothers in law because your MIL lives on another continent and his MIL is likely to be living in the same house as the kid.

And knowing that your MIL is already the primary caregiver for a grandchild in the UK makes it even less likely that she would actually be flown over for last minute babysitting. Realize how unlikely this is to materialize as a real issue, let alone a recurring one, and move on.

I think it will be an issue. His side of the family has gotten very involved in the divorce proceedings and supporting him in getting 50/50 custody (“or more!”, as one relative said). I think there is a lot of pride and egos and other stuff involved. Like they have to prove that their son is a good guy so they’re waving their hands around to distract from the whole walking out on us thing.

I do thing they would move mountains to bring family back and forth to make sure 50/50 worked just so they could tell extended family and neighbors what a good dad STBX is.

You’re being ridiculous. Let this go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a lot of this is about him looking good and being rich presumably at your expense. If you end up more time he has to pay more because you are incurring the expenses, no? Ask your lawyer.

Yes but first I have to document over time and then go back for modification which can only be done after a 2 year period unless he egregiously skipped out on visitation.

Do you care more about money or your kids? You will likely get them more than he does, which is great, but no court is going to award you more than 50/50 custody anyway so I’d lay low and let him feel like he is winning while I enjoyed extra time with my kids. Meanwhile, you win because you get precious time.

+1

I’d just let him feel like he “won” this issue- and don’t even complain about it if you haven’t already (which will just encourage him to dig in his heels). In fact, I might even tell him (and exILs if you are speaking terms) that it is a great idea- because the more he & they think it isn’t what you want, the more stuck he & they will be on the idea. Just to feel they are getting one over you. There is pretty much no way the elderly grandma is going to be flying here for childcare with any real level of frequency (more than 2x/yr or something)- or that the exH will find it preferable- unless it is out of pure spite. So don’t provoke him or his family on the issue.

He will likely find it MUCH easier to just send the kid to you vs. dealing with his mom and making arrangements & instructions for while he is gone (because there will be some- scheduling of extracurriculars, appts, any house prep etc). If you were like most couples, he is probably not accustomed to doing those things when arranging for childcare/being out of town- and probably will find it a PITA. Versus just seamlessly dropping kid off with you.

Also having his mother visiting with frequency may actually get on his nerves- depending on the existing relationship. His mom getting up in his business or criticizing his parenting or home etc (as moms sometimes tend to do) will get old.

So I’d just let him feel he won this one, and whatever you do- don’t let him feel this is a power struggle. His plan is poorly thought out and is not going to work out anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a practical standpoint, if she lives in the UK, how often do you think it is even possible that she will be taking care of your kids.

I wouldn't add anything in for those rare occasions.

+1 I wouldn't get into a tit for tat about mother in laws when yours is on another continent and his is likely to be living in the same house as the child soon. Concentrate on keeping things amicable so that it will naturally make more sense in his mind to call you when he's called out of town, before booking a plane ticket.

I’m OP and you have it mixed up. STBexMIL lives permanently in the Uk. DH would fly her the 6 hours or whatever whenever he had a work trip so she could babysit. And then fly her back to the UK. She is the primary caregiver for another grandchild there.

My mom is local. She does not live with us, and probably won’t for 3-4 years. I don’t anticipate her providing childcare ever but am concerned about my child being a teen one day and wanting to stay home alone and not being able to if she does move in with us.

This will sort itself out. UK Granny will do this 1-2x and you’ll end up with the kids.

Play the long game.

This, he will still get his "appearances and pride" with this.

Oh, look how wonderful he is, he's such a devoted dad, has 50/50 custody even with his packed schedule, and he makes soooo much money, look how he flew grandma from the UK, isn't that nice, what a great guy! (Meanwhile he did it twice out of eight work trips, is getting discounted child support, and the time he does spend with the kid he's probably on his work phone)

OP and yeah, I think you summed it up pretty nicely here. I pray that it will be twice out of eight work trips. The reality is more like 20-30 trips per year and even if she only covered 25% of them that would still be a ton of time. And I won’t be able to renegotiate child support without returning to court, which will be expensive and require a track record of him regularly bailing on visitation for an extended period of time. My state is every 2 years for child support modification barring a “significant” change in circumstances, and that would be totally missed visitation, not bailing out half the time for travel.

He’s kind of got a brilliant plan here.

Even 20% of 20-30 trips would be 5-6x/year. I really don’t think that seems realistic for the elderly grandma at all. Especially since you said some of the trips are on rather short notice.

Not sure if the 20-30 trips was total per year or only what would be estimated during “his” half of the parenting time? So it could actually even be less.

I agree that this is a move to save face and nothing more.

[Anonymous]

Here’s what will happen: Grandma may come a few times, but will eventually stop. Ex-dh will spend less and less time with the kids because of his work travel. Been there — super intense custody negotiation and then in practice nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what will happen: Grandma may come a few times, but will eventually stop. Ex-dh will spend less and less time with the kids because of his work travel. Been there — super intense custody negotiation and then in practice nothing.

Did you renegotiate a new arrangement or
just let it quietly fade out?

[Anonymous]

Just let him fail. Obviously the grandma from UK plan is not going to work, and you cannot actually block caregiving by the grandma without having reciprocal limitations placed on you. I think it would be reasonable to put a time limit for this (like more than 3 overnights and the noncustodial parent gets right of first refusal).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s what will happen: Grandma may come a few times, but will eventually stop. Ex-dh will spend less and less time with the kids because of his work travel. Been there — super intense custody negotiation and then in practice nothing.

Yep. My XH checked out almost immediately, but got intense about "his rights as a father." Has he ever once taken his full custody time? Never. Has he ever taken the extra time I have offered when his schedule required him to bail on our kids during his regularly scheduled time? Never. Do I ever point any of this out to him? Nope. I just take the win.

So much of this stuff is about pride and saving face. Unless I really needed the money from extra child support, I would just happily take the extra time for the long haul and not worry about renegotiating. Everybody wins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a practical standpoint, if she lives in the UK, how often do you think it is even possible that she will be taking care of your kids.

I wouldn't add anything in for those rare occasions.

+1 I wouldn't get into a tit for tat about mother in laws when yours is on another continent and his is likely to be living in the same house as the child soon. Concentrate on keeping things amicable so that it will naturally make more sense in his mind to call you when he's called out of town, before booking a plane ticket.

I’m OP and you have it mixed up. STBexMIL lives permanently in the Uk. DH would fly her the 6 hours or whatever whenever he had a work trip so she could babysit. And then fly her back to the UK. She is the primary caregiver for another grandchild there.

My mom is local. She does not live with us, and probably won’t for 3-4 years. I don’t anticipate her providing childcare ever but am concerned about my child being a teen one day and wanting to stay home alone and not being able to if she does move in with us.

That's literally what I said. Don't get into a tit for tat about mothers in law because your MIL lives on another continent and his MIL is likely to be living in the same house as the kid.

And knowing that your MIL is already the primary caregiver for a grandchild in the UK makes it even less likely that she would actually be flown over for last minute babysitting. Realize how unlikely this is to materialize as a real issue, let alone a recurring one, and move on.

I think it will be an issue. His side of the family has gotten very involved in the divorce proceedings and supporting him in getting 50/50 custody (“or more!”, as one relative said). I think there is a lot of pride and egos and other stuff involved. Like they have to prove that their son is a good guy so they’re waving their hands around to distract from the whole walking out on us thing.

I do thing they would move mountains to bring family back and forth to make sure 50/50 worked just so they could tell extended family and neighbors what a good dad STBX is.

They might. That’s OK. You should accept that his family being involved in your child’s life may be a good thing. It might also fizzle after 6-12 months when they realize just how impractical it is.