Are there ramifications for being a SAHM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you educated and a professional woman in a decent job before becoming a SAHM? In that case, I can see it being harder to get back into the labor market at anything approaching your current/previous level.

DC job market is competitive -- there are a million educated, talented, smart people around. Why would someone hire someone else who'd been home for five years? You just wouldn't be very completive.

I had no problem returning to the workforce. I'm sure it varies by industry/role but this idea that it is impossible is outdated. I know several women who have done the same. We are in different industries but none of us had a problem finding a job after staying home for a period of time.

Did you return to a senior role, with perks?

This was my basic math— I took two years maternity leave, but didn’t leave my job. My job includes travel and other things I can experience with my kids. I do not want my kids to think women do primarily domestic work, but it could be equally damaging for them to think, Dad has a secretary, Mom IS a secretary.

It’s kind of sad that you assign value to humans based on their careers. That is what you are teaching your kids.

I don’t think it is. My kids love my secretary, and we value her enormously. But I don’t think it’s ideal for children to see women restricted to positions of support— at home or the workplace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you educated and a professional woman in a decent job before becoming a SAHM? In that case, I can see it being harder to get back into the labor market at anything approaching your current/previous level.

DC job market is competitive -- there are a million educated, talented, smart people around. Why would someone hire someone else who'd been home for five years? You just wouldn't be very completive.

I had no problem returning to the workforce. I'm sure it varies by industry/role but this idea that it is impossible is outdated. I know several women who have done the same. We are in different industries but none of us had a problem finding a job after staying home for a period of time.

Did you return to a senior role, with perks?

This was my basic math— I took two years maternity leave, but didn’t leave my job. My job includes travel and other things I can experience with my kids. I do not want my kids to think women do primarily domestic work, but it could be equally damaging for them to think, Dad has a secretary, Mom IS a secretary.

It’s kind of sad that you assign value to humans based on their careers. That is what you are teaching your kids.

I don’t think it is. My kids love my secretary, and we value her enormously. But I don’t think it’s ideal for children to see women restricted to positions of support— at home or the workplace.

Well stated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you educated and a professional woman in a decent job before becoming a SAHM? In that case, I can see it being harder to get back into the labor market at anything approaching your current/previous level.

DC job market is competitive -- there are a million educated, talented, smart people around. Why would someone hire someone else who'd been home for five years? You just wouldn't be very completive.

I had no problem returning to the workforce. I'm sure it varies by industry/role but this idea that it is impossible is outdated. I know several women who have done the same. We are in different industries but none of us had a problem finding a job after staying home for a period of time.

Did you return to a senior role, with perks?

This was my basic math— I took two years maternity leave, but didn’t leave my job. My job includes travel and other things I can experience with my kids. I do not want my kids to think women do primarily domestic work, but it could be equally damaging for them to think, Dad has a secretary, Mom IS a secretary.

It’s kind of sad that you assign value to humans based on their careers. That is what you are teaching your kids.

I don’t think it is. My kids love my secretary, and we value her enormously. But I don’t think it’s ideal for children to see women restricted to positions of support— at home or the workplace.

You must be living in a vacuum that your children aren’t seeing women in power positions with the exception of mom. The vice president, Supreme Court justices, Congress…those are good places to start. It’s odd that you refer to women as being “restricted.” Most women I know own their choices and choose to pursue what works best for them and their families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a risk, and saying it isn’t is lying. How long have you been married? At 20 years you would be entitled to alimony as a SAHP in many states, but if less you can be out with nothing. Do you have assets that are not co-mingled and solely in your name? How do your retirement accounts look?

That’s the financial implications.

On the family implications, the studies are pretty clear that being raised by SAHM’s means girls will earn less money. That may or may not be fine with you. Anecdotally, it impacts how much respect boys will have for women but the data is less clear. What will this mean for your children’s education? Will they still go to camp?

And then the relationship implications. This depends on your spouse. If his attraction to you is predicated on you having a really interesting and dynamic life away from the marriage than yeah, it’s going to be a struggle in the toddler years. Different strokes for different folks.

NP. Can you please provide links for these studies you mention? I tend to be skeptical when studies get mentioned but aren't provided. And I would question how old that information is re: "being raised by SAHMs means girls will earn less money." That's a pretty sweeping conclusion and surely involves a lot of variables. Same re: how much "respect boys wiil have for women" -- are you implying that boys supposedly have less respect for women if their mother is SAH? Again, sweeping and extremely generalized. Which is why I'm wondering about the specific sources, dates, and methodologies of these "studies." If they were conducted over long periods, by reputable, objective social scientists in scientifically valid and replicable ways, that's one thing. If they're by organizations with agendas behind them, that's entirely different. And I say the same about any study on any subject cited without links on DCUM.

Of course watching one person spend their day cleaning bathtubs, and vacuuming, and changing diapers vs getting dressed up, have a nice office and secretary and perks (like a driver or work travel) is going to impact what children think about male vs female capabilities and value. It just will.

I think child care is super impactful, and it was my most important job. But children see the literal tasks and working conditions that each gender takes on (not the nuanced social contribution). That leaves a mark on their perceptions.

The great majority of the SAHMs I knew when I was a SAHM with preschool children returned to work when the kids were in elementary school, including myself. My kids know I was at home when they were little but don't really remember it. They know me more as a working mom.
You can do different things throughout your life.

Two I know never returned. Both had professions. TBH, they were spoiled and complained often about their husbands who worked like dogs. One did not like his job at all, but had a family of four to support. The other would have liked to retire, but his wife clearly did not want him home all the time. It was sad to see.

[Anonymous]

Don’t underestimate the relationship implications. It seems to hit the worst after the kids are in school…. Even a half way decent partner understands how hard it is to deal with littles all day. And the cost of childcare alone makes it worth it in many cases.

But once the kids are in school full time, that’s when it’s sooo easy to fall into the “what were you doing all day?” from the working spouse, and the wife wanting a break on the weekends but the husband thinking that’s HIS break and free time from work…. The bean counting of chores, etc.

Of course this doesn’t always happen. But the danger point seems to be somewhere in that area after the kids are in school full time and the SAHM doesn’t return to work.

Then there is the awkward social aspect…. If you go with your DH to work events, what are you going to talk to people about? Kids? Play dates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you educated and a professional woman in a decent job before becoming a SAHM? In that case, I can see it being harder to get back into the labor market at anything approaching your current/previous level.

DC job market is competitive -- there are a million educated, talented, smart people around. Why would someone hire someone else who'd been home for five years? You just wouldn't be very completive.

I had no problem returning to the workforce. I'm sure it varies by industry/role but this idea that it is impossible is outdated. I know several women who have done the same. We are in different industries but none of us had a problem finding a job after staying home for a period of time.

Did you return to a senior role, with perks?

This was my basic math— I took two years maternity leave, but didn’t leave my job. My job includes travel and other things I can experience with my kids. I do not want my kids to think women do primarily domestic work, but it could be equally damaging for them to think, Dad has a secretary, Mom IS a secretary.

It’s kind of sad that you assign value to humans based on their careers. That is what you are teaching your kids.

I don’t think it is. My kids love my secretary, and we value her enormously. But I don’t think it’s ideal for children to see women restricted to positions of support— at home or the workplace.

You must be living in a vacuum that your children aren’t seeing women in power positions with the exception of mom. The vice president, Supreme Court justices, Congress…those are good places to start. It’s odd that you refer to women as being “restricted.” Most women I know own their choices and choose to pursue what works best for them and their families.

I don’t run in such exalted circles that the Vice President or any of the SCOTUS justices are a huge part of my kids lives. Their mom and dad are. And mom and dad are both important people in their workplace just like at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a risk, and saying it isn’t is lying. How long have you been married? At 20 years you would be entitled to alimony as a SAHP in many states, but if less you can be out with nothing. Do you have assets that are not co-mingled and solely in your name? How do your retirement accounts look?


That’s the financial implications.

On the family implications, the studies are pretty clear that being raised by SAHM’s means girls will earn less money. That may or may not be fine with you. Anecdotally, it impacts how much respect boys will have for women but the data is less clear. What will this mean for your children’s education? Will they still go to camp?

And then the relationship implications. This depends on your spouse. If his attraction to you is predicated on you having a really interesting and dynamic life away from the marriage than yeah, it’s going to be a struggle in the toddler years. Different strokes for different folks.

NP. Can you please provide links for these studies you mention? I tend to be skeptical when studies get mentioned but aren't provided. And I would question how old that information is re: "being raised by SAHMs means girls will earn less money." That's a pretty sweeping conclusion and surely involves a lot of variables. Same re: how much "respect boys wiil have for women" -- are you implying that boys supposedly have less respect for women if their mother is SAH? Again, sweeping and extremely generalized. Which is why I'm wondering about the specific sources, dates, and methodologies of these "studies." If they were conducted over long periods, by reputable, objective social scientists in scientifically valid and replicable ways, that's one thing. If they're by organizations with agendas behind them, that's entirely different. And I say the same about any study on any subject cited without links on DCUM.

Of course watching one person spend their day cleaning bathtubs, and vacuuming, and changing diapers vs getting dressed up, have a nice office and secretary and perks (like a driver or work travel) is going to impact what children think about male vs female capabilities and value. It just will.

I think child care is super impactful, and it was my most important job. But children see the literal tasks and working conditions that each gender takes on (not the nuanced social contribution). That leaves a mark on their perceptions.

The great majority of the SAHMs I knew when I was a SAHM with preschool children returned to work when the kids were in elementary school, including myself. My kids know I was at home when they were little but don't really remember it. They know me more as a working mom.
You can do different things throughout your life.

+1. Being a SAHM for part of your kid’s childhood doesn’t mean you are foresaking paid work for the rest of your life….

Its always so weird when I read these threads. It is possible and common for SAHMs to return to the workforce. So a lot of "advice" is not applicable.

DCUM seems to think it’s common and easy to go back to a great job after being out of the workforce for 10 years but in my own life I have never seen it happen a single time outside of a few specific professions: nurse/OT/PT or teacher. A couple women tried to retrain for some new field with very limited success and they earn basically nothing but keep themselves busy (which is fine if they don’t need the money obviously). One is going back for a masters in social work and I think she’s going to do great. But acting like it’s common across all professions is not at all consistent with what I have observed.

+1

In my experience this is true. It tends to work if the woman was relatively established in her career and was out less than 5 years and kept current with the field

People say this but I don’t really know what it means. How current can you be if you aren’t working?

[Anonymous]

Yes, it is a very bad idea. The high income earning (or solo earner) spouse will slaughter you in court if they are mean, evil and/or adversarial. Family Court is not about the children or their best interest. It is about who can pay...it is all about money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it is a very bad idea. The high income earning (or solo earner) spouse will slaughter you in court if they are mean, evil and/or adversarial. Family Court is not about the children or their best interest. It is about who can pay...it is all about money.

If you go for a divorce and child custody that is. At best, it creates a definite power imbalance and that is not healthy either. Times have changed, not for the better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a risk, and saying it isn’t is lying. How long have you been married? At 20 years you would be entitled to alimony as a SAHP in many states, but if less you can be out with nothing. Do you have assets that are not co-mingled and solely in your name? How do your retirement accounts look?


That’s the financial implications.

On the family implications, the studies are pretty clear that being raised by SAHM’s means girls will earn less money. That may or may not be fine with you. Anecdotally, it impacts how much respect boys will have for women but the data is less clear. What will this mean for your children’s education? Will they still go to camp?

And then the relationship implications. This depends on your spouse. If his attraction to you is predicated on you having a really interesting and dynamic life away from the marriage than yeah, it’s going to be a struggle in the toddler years. Different strokes for different folks.

NP. Can you please provide links for these studies you mention? I tend to be skeptical when studies get mentioned but aren't provided. And I would question how old that information is re: "being raised by SAHMs means girls will earn less money." That's a pretty sweeping conclusion and surely involves a lot of variables. Same re: how much "respect boys wiil have for women" -- are you implying that boys supposedly have less respect for women if their mother is SAH? Again, sweeping and extremely generalized. Which is why I'm wondering about the specific sources, dates, and methodologies of these "studies." If they were conducted over long periods, by reputable, objective social scientists in scientifically valid and replicable ways, that's one thing. If they're by organizations with agendas behind them, that's entirely different. And I say the same about any study on any subject cited without links on DCUM.

Of course watching one person spend their day cleaning bathtubs, and vacuuming, and changing diapers vs getting dressed up, have a nice office and secretary and perks (like a driver or work travel) is going to impact what children think about male vs female capabilities and value. It just will.

I think child care is super impactful, and it was my most important job. But children see the literal tasks and working conditions that each gender takes on (not the nuanced social contribution). That leaves a mark on their perceptions.

The great majority of the SAHMs I knew when I was a SAHM with preschool children returned to work when the kids were in elementary school, including myself. My kids know I was at home when they were little but don't really remember it. They know me more as a working mom.
You can do different things throughout your life.

+1. Being a SAHM for part of your kid’s childhood doesn’t mean you are foresaking paid work for the rest of your life….

Its always so weird when I read these threads. It is possible and common for SAHMs to return to the workforce. So a lot of "advice" is not applicable.

DCUM seems to think it’s common and easy to go back to a great job after being out of the workforce for 10 years but in my own life I have never seen it happen a single time outside of a few specific professions: nurse/OT/PT or teacher. A couple women tried to retrain for some new field with very limited success and they earn basically nothing but keep themselves busy (which is fine if they don’t need the money obviously). One is going back for a masters in social work and I think she’s going to do great. But acting like it’s common across all professions is not at all consistent with what I have observed.

+1

In my experience this is true. It tends to work if the woman was relatively established in her career and was out less than 5 years and kept current with the field

People say this but I don’t really know what it means. How current can you be if you aren’t working?

If you know you are going back in a few years you maintain contacts, continue to network, and continue to follow industry news. Linked In is your friend and you check in once or twice a week and and continue to stay in touch with colleagues.

I did this and actually got multiple job offers before I was ready to go back to work. I wound up doing some consulting gigs when my kids were preschool aged and one of those turned into a job.

I know a number of professional women who followed a similar path. If you are established in your career and good at your job it's not that hard-- it's hard to find good, experienced people and I have to be that absolutely no one cares about a 4-5 year absence for kids. At all.

[Anonymous]

I wasn’t worried about the money, I was worried about if I’d be able to find just as good a job so I kept working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t underestimate the relationship implications. It seems to hit the worst after the kids are in school…. Even a half way decent partner understands how hard it is to deal with littles all day. And the cost of childcare alone makes it worth it in many cases.

But once the kids are in school full time, that’s when it’s sooo easy to fall into the “what were you doing all day?” from the working spouse, and the wife wanting a break on the weekends but the husband thinking that’s HIS break and free time from work…. The bean counting of chores, etc.

Of course this doesn’t always happen. But the danger point seems to be somewhere in that area after the kids are in school full time and the SAHM doesn’t return to work.

Then there is the awkward social aspect…. If you go with your DH to work events, what are you going to talk to people about? Kids? Play dates?

You are making this harder than it needs to be. First off, lots of people just go back to work after kids are in school, whether in their old career or a new one and sometimes with a pivot to something more family friendly or that they enjoy more (it is easier to be a working parent if you don't hate your job so having a job you don't loathe matters).

If you have strong marriage no one will ever ask you "what are you doing all day." If this is how you and your spouse interact, you will also struggle with being dual income (which generally requires MORE communication and respect, no less).

And if your only options for making conversation at events are (1) your current job, or (2) kids and playdates, then you are just bad at conversation. Read a book or listen to a podcast or something. I only talk work at a social event if it's literally a workplace event and in that case you have to literally work in the office to follow that anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wasn’t worried about the money, I was worried about if I’d be able to find just as good a job so I kept working.

Meanwhile I didn't like my job so I quit and SAHMed and now I have another, better job.

It's almost like people's circumstances can vary so this decision can vary a lot too.

[Anonymous]

It astounds me how so few posters consider or acknowledge the experience for an infant or toddler—what their day to day is like. It’s a completely different childhood when you can avoid both parents working long hours with maybe 4 months of leave total. Anything that can be done to stagger or extend leaves, to work part time, etc. will improve your child’s quality of life immensely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my case, I don't think I'd ever be attracted to the kind of guy who had the same respect for a sahm wife as he would have for a working wife. Because honestly that means he probably didn't put a whole lot of value in the accomplishments of a working wife. I have accomplished a lot in my career and education. It really is harder and more interesting than baby raising.

This is just straight-out misogynistic. You assign a high value to paid work* and a low value to caregiving work** because based on what you write, you have bought into the patriarchal notion that women exist to serve their husbands and families, for no pay and at the expense of their own needs and wants, and that paid work is by definition worthy of respect that caregiving work is not. It's kind of like how a boy dressing like a girl is worthy of contempt and derision, whereas the reverse is not.

Paid work is not per se more worthy of respect than caregiving work is, just because we have been told so by patriarchal culture.

*work for which people are compensated with money, in the tradition of how men have worked for centuries
**work for which no monetary compensation is provided, in the tradition of how women have worked for centuries

This. What so many educated women in bubbles like DC don’t understand is that plenty of American women want to raise kids and tend to the home. It’s also why we don’t have government paid maternity leave. The average woman doesn’t want to stay home for 6 months to a year and then return to work. She wants a strong economy so she never has to return to work.