He says he's old-fashioned, but keeps letting me set up dates, and pay

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No need to comment on the details, you've felt uncomfortable and like the situation is strange a. from the first date, and b. over several dates. Trust your gut. No matter what anyone else thinks or feels, this situation is not right for you. That you're asking all these questions and second-guessing yourself should be a big enough sign that you should move on.

Find the guy you're comfortable with, who treats you well and makes you laugh. Ditch the ones that make you question yourself.

I didn't trust my gut one time when dating and learned my lesson. If yku have a feeling something is strange, there is probably something wrong. Run!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Went on the third date tonight. Even more confused.

During the date, past relationships/relationships in general came up. He referenced how much he is wanting to see me, and said that he typically (and somewhat necessarily) moves faster - as his job requires quite a bit of travel, and he is on an in/out schedule - typically a few weeks out, then a few weeks back - he needs to spend time with someone while he's in town, because he can't when he's done. I said (and it's true, has nothing to do with the payment/planning thing) that I generally move a bit slower, and don't think that a date/week is unusual for the first few dates.) He said (again with the old-fashioned) that he doesn't like to sleep around or date more than one person at a time. I told him that I also don't sleep with multiple people at the same time, but basically assume that by default everyone that I meet online has at least one or two other people they are talking to/dating until we have a conversation deciding otherwise. He asked how fast I could see myself moving (and he didn't specify sex or exclusivity, but from what he said think he was referring to both) and I said probably about 6 weeks of dating. He asked me out for Tuesday during the date.

Again, I paid for myself (we were the last people in the restaurant, and while he seems to have no qualms about that, I feel bad when the staff are just sitting there waiting on us) so I couldn't just try the suggested "wait him out and see what happens" strategy - so I put my card out first, after about 20 minutes of the bill just sitting on the table. He walked me to my car at the end of the date, and gave me a hug (no kiss this time). Then he said he had a good time, and mentioned how much he likes being around me, and that he usually doesn't talk so much/long, and I said I had a good time, too - he asked "really?" but made no move for further physical contact. Also still no exchange of numbers. Did I mention I'm confused?

OP he is a complete and total loser who is trying to game you, for free, and just hit the right number of dates until the panties drop, for free, and it's working. Drop him! What adult lets a bill sit on the table for 20 minutes? That's rude, woman or man, but especially for him because this is just his MO- he did this on the second date too. I have to believe you can do better- drop him.
Not to mention with his work comments he's setting you up for the future fade; seriously don't see this loser again.

All this. He's bad news. He's almost certainly in a relationship. He has basically told you not to expect anything from him time-wise, because of his "work schedule." He literally asked you when, exactly, you would have sex with him. He hasn't spent a dime on you in three dates. He hasn't given you his number. Are you even sure you know his real name - maybe when he (finally) dropped his credit card (after you dropped yours)?

He "said that he typically (and somewhat necessarily) moves faster - as his job requires quite a bit of travel." Lol. That's a new one. "You have to have sex with me quickly before I go out of town on one of my trips." OP, he's totally testing you and your gullibility. Be smarter!

PP here - I didn't mean this the way I now realize it sounds ("be smarter than you're being right now"). I meant, "be smarter than him" - beat him as own game and pull the fade first. Sorry, typing fast.

OP here - thanks for the clarification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here: I'm not a total idiot, thanks to those who realize that. I suppose I could be more detailed with the info I provide, but my posts already seem long. He is who he says he is - I have verified Facebook and LunkedIn profiles with his last name. He has invited me out on weekend nights, I have declined because the scheduling did not work out this far. Of course none of this means he isn't cheap or anything else, but I'm not just blindly going along with whatever he tells me.

OP, I'm a PP.

You sound sweet, smart, and empathetic.

So, let me channel my internal Grandmemere. You need to picture a 4 foot tall, French Canadian woman, who everyone adored.

"Why would you consider a man that doesn't treat you like flowers grow out of your ass?"

Then there would have been a glass of whiskey mysteriously offered from what seemed like thin air, and probably watching a Thunderstorm on her porch.

I understand there's a disconnect here, because not everyone grew up with a French speaking grandmother from Northern Canada.

The point is: he adores you, or doesn't. Three dates in, sparks fly, or they don't. My DH was so shy, our first date was a group date that his friends invited me on. Date two he was something like 2 hours late (long story, and he's a lucky man I'm a good interpolater). By the end of date three, there was no turning back for either of us (and I'm not talking sexually).


What I'm saying is.. the end of each date should leave you wanting MORE, NOT questioning what will happen next. Not every date starts perfectly, ends perfectly, or proceeds perfectly, but if there's going to be something happening, there should be some thing happening that drives both people to the next date. I often tease DH about our "early ons", because I swear.. There was no way we should have panned out. But we did.

The problem comes, OP, if your loins are the only thing doing the talking, what else does guy bring to the table? You sound literate, intelligent, coherent..much more than a lot of folks. Is his really what you want? A man that won't ask for your number? One that won't take a traditional role (even for kicks)? One that puts you in the drivers seat for dating?

A lot of women I know would love this stuff, so I'm actually one of the few on his thread that will not debate the "beta male" thing. But, y need to know what you have, and be willing to deal with that. Is that what you want? Because that's what you have, or .. What y need to talk about

OP here - thanks for the nice compliments. I believe I am literate, intelligent, coherent and empathetic. This is why I wanted to see where it went - I don't necessarily think one date gives a great idea of a person - I certainly know I've been out on dates where I was "off" or not my best self, and would hate if someone didn't want to see me a second or third time to get to know me better - kind of like you said with your husband. As I said very early on, I find/found him physically attractive, funny, and interesting, so those were the reasons I wanted to see if it could pan out. I also don't necessarily think men should have to pay early on in dating, but that the ones I've met that seem to like me generally do.

That said, there comes a point, as you pointed out, where either you feel more "in" or more "out" and his wanting to "speed the relationship up" on the last date was likely the last straw for me, in addition to the other stuff. I liked his company well enough to keep going out with him, and finding out more about him, while paying for myself, but I'm not about to move faster than what I'm comfortable with.

Your grandmother sounds awesome.

[Anonymous]

Good call, OP. At best he is really cheap. I also find this really strange:

"When it's time to leave, he gets up from the table and just leaves the little bill-container-envelope on the table. I think maybe he paid while I was in the bathroom, but don't want to assume anything, so I grab it and follow him. At this point he's like, right, we should pay at the bar."

I wasn't there so maybe it played out differently, but it kind of sounds like he was planning to pull a dine and dash and just stroll on out of the restaurant. If he was already walking away and you hadn't said anything, wouldn't it just have stayed unpaid at the table?

And then him having the bartender re-run the check to split it - wow. No es bueno.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm going to be the oddball out here and ask OP why YOU didn't ask him for exchange of number, I actually suggestes a few pages back with a couple suggestions for how to do it, like an Internet excuse or something, your data plan is low whatever.
That would have given you a ton of information and ended this whole "is he married, why don't I have his number" thing.
Is there any chance you kind of like the drama and being so passive? You seem like you are putting this all in his hands instead of asking for or steering a towards what you want.
You have gotten a lot of good advice and suggestions and done nothing

OP here: Fair point, I could have asked, and was considering it going into the date. I didn't because the way the date was going left me wondering if I even wanted to see him again, and thought that asking for his number at that point would have been sending mixed messages if I wasn't going to use it. Also thought it could possibly seen as agreeing to 'speed up the relationship' as he indicated he wanted, and I definitely wasn't agreeing to speed anything up.

Don't like drama, just like to take my time and think about things some (in a moment of irony, I realize I said this same thing to him last night). I agree that I've gotten some good advice and feedback here, and your solution to asking for the number was a very smart and creative one that I will use if I decide to continue messaging with him.

I'm glad I posted this here, the perspective has been worthwhile.

[Anonymous]

Op, I'm the poster you responded to at 22:06.
You seem really nice, kind, polite even to Internet strangers that are not so nice...and does that extend to guys you date?
Are you a people pleaser by any chance? Are you the friend who is always the giver, always the one keeping the friendship going?
You seem to be letting this guy lead, not asserting yourself, almost afraid to rock the boat.
You're not responsible for his feelings.
He is, by all your accounts, not worth any more time or dates. This is not going to get better, he has shown you clearly who he is and it's not good. I don't necessarily think he's married but he is awkward socially and trying to label himself, relationships and you now with guides for restaurant choice, paying, planning sex.
I bet he took some dating help class or read some ridiculous book and that is where these behaviors are coming from.
Just some things to think about!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good call, OP. At best he is really cheap. I also find this really strange:

"When it's time to leave, he gets up from the table and just leaves the little bill-container-envelope on the table. I think maybe he paid while I was in the bathroom, but don't want to assume anything, so I grab it and follow him. At this point he's like, right, we should pay at the bar."

I wasn't there so maybe it played out differently, but it kind of sounds like he was planning to pull a dine and dash and just stroll on out of the restaurant. If he was already walking away and you hadn't said anything, wouldn't it just have stayed unpaid at the table?

And then him having the bartender re-run the check to split it - wow. No es bueno.

PP again, rereading your OP. One could also interpret that story about his sister's fiancé as another example of his preoccupation with money. Not a great character trait when combined with either cheapness, as in his case, or profligacy, as in the case of one of my best friend's DH's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good call, OP. At best he is really cheap. I also find this really strange:

"When it's time to leave, he gets up from the table and just leaves the little bill-container-envelope on the table. I think maybe he paid while I was in the bathroom, but don't want to assume anything, so I grab it and follow him. At this point he's like, right, we should pay at the bar."

I wasn't there so maybe it played out differently, but it kind of sounds like he was planning to pull a dine and dash and just stroll on out of the restaurant. If he was already walking away and you hadn't said anything, wouldn't it just have stayed unpaid at the table?

And then him having the bartender re-run the check to split it - wow. No es bueno.

You're not wrong about how it played out - I went to the bathroom. Bill came while I was in the bathroom. When I got back to the table, we took our coats, etc. and he walked away from the table first, leaving the bill holder on the table, which I then picked up and followed him with. At the time, I didn't think of the dine-and-dash thing, but reading through the responses, it could have been a possibility, whether deliberately (I don't like to think so) or just due to absent-mindedness.

And yes, asking the bartender to split it after he put it all on his car was cringe-inducing. It wasn't even that expensive - about $80 including tip. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, because we'd had a really good date that night, and since I'd pulled out my card first on the first date, thought maybe he thought that I was insistent on paying for myself, so I went with it. Between that and last night, I'm fully convinced he has no intention of paying, at least not until I agree to exclusivity. The way things have gone, I'm not agreeing to that, and probably not seeing him at all anymore, so the whole 'who pays' thing just becomes a really vicious circle and moot point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good call, OP. At best he is really cheap. I also find this really strange:

"When it's time to leave, he gets up from the table and just leaves the little bill-container-envelope on the table. I think maybe he paid while I was in the bathroom, but don't want to assume anything, so I grab it and follow him. At this point he's like, right, we should pay at the bar."

I wasn't there so maybe it played out differently, but it kind of sounds like he was planning to pull a dine and dash and just stroll on out of the restaurant. If he was already walking away and you hadn't said anything, wouldn't it just have stayed unpaid at the table?

And then him having the bartender re-run the check to split it - wow. No es bueno.

You're not wrong about how it played out - I went to the bathroom. Bill came while I was in the bathroom. When I got back to the table, we took our coats, etc. and he walked away from the table first, leaving the bill holder on the table, which I then picked up and followed him with. At the time, I didn't think of the dine-and-dash thing, but reading through the responses, it could have been a possibility, whether deliberately (I don't like to think so) or just due to absent-mindedness.

And yes, asking the bartender to split it after he put it all on his car was cringe-inducing. It wasn't even that expensive - about $80 including tip. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, because we'd had a really good date that night, and since I'd pulled out my card first on the first date, thought maybe he thought that I was insistent on paying for myself, so I went with it. Between that and last night, I'm fully convinced he has no intention of paying, at least not until I agree to exclusivity. The way things have gone, I'm not agreeing to that, and probably not seeing him at all anymore, so the whole 'who pays' thing just becomes a really vicious circle and moot point.

Yeah. Whether he was planning to leave it and dash, or whether he deliberately left it there to force you to pick it up and to make clear that he had no plans to take care of it, that is very uncool. You are kind to give him the benefit of the doubt, but given the pattern of him avoiding the check on every date and even explicitly correcting the bartender, it was definitely no accident that he picked up your coats instead of the check. What a turnoff. I'm sorry, OP. I hope the next guy you meet is great!

[Anonymous]

Oh dear, he sounds like a total loser. OP seems like a nice person. You deserve much better than this!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, I'm the poster you responded to at 22:06.
You seem really nice, kind, polite even to Internet strangers that are not so nice...and does that extend to guys you date?
Are you a people pleaser by any chance? Are you the friend who is always the giver, always the one keeping the friendship going?
You seem to be letting this guy lead, not asserting yourself, almost afraid to rock the boat.
You're not responsible for his feelings.
He is, by all your accounts, not worth any more time or dates. This is not going to get better, he has shown you clearly who he is and it's not good. I don't necessarily think he's married but he is awkward socially and trying to label himself, relationships and you now with guides for restaurant choice, paying, planning sex.
I bet he took some dating help class or read some ridiculous book and that is where these behaviors are coming from.
Just some things to think about!

Generally speaking, yes, I am nice, kind and polite - and yes, I hope that extends to guys I date. I believe that if you bother to ask other people for advice, you should at least consider what they have to say. I also like to think I'm self-aware enough to see that I could have been perceived as ignoring some good advice, but knew that I had my reasons I was comfortable with for handling it the way I did - but that doesn't mean the advice wasn't good.

I don't actually think I'm a people-pleaser. It might mean different things to different people, but to me, the people-pleaser thing to do when he said he doesn't like to see more than one person at a time, and wanted to see me more often, would have been to agree (which I didn't) and not say that I think everyone who is dating online should assume their dates are also going out with other people until a conversation is had about exclusivity (which I did).

I'm definitely averse to confrontation, but I don't just knuckle under, either, and again - don't like to rush when I make decisions, but am plenty stubborn once I do.

[Anonymous]

I dated plenty on Internet sites, met
My wife on one. Normal people would email a bit and ask for a phone number. The first thing I want to do is see if we have any vibe on the phone and to hear the other persons voice.

So weird he didn't give you his number right away.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the pp who said he was married. It seems very fishy to me. I wouldn't be surprised if he was married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He may not be married, but he's definitely hiding something. Also feeling you out for exactly when sex is going to happen is ballsy. If you'll pardon the pun. Ditch him, OP.

Oh, and "Old fashioned" minus "chivalry" = "Chauvanist".

OP - I missed this one before - it made me laugh- it's to-the-point, and true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He's weird and awkward. Presuming you are not, why would you want to date someone like that? Life with him would be tedious.

Exactly.