Are there things people can say or do that you can’t really come back from, even with an apology?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like a lot of you in this thread are the sort of people who frequently say something incredibly shitty under the guise of “Just being honest!”

I have never, not once in my entire life, ever said something to someone for the purpose of hurting them. Not in an argument, not out of anger, never. I think that's the lowest kind of communication. So I'm curious which comments you think were made by people who would do what you said because I have commented on this thread.

DP and I believe you but surely you've encountered people who sometimes (or frequently) make negative comments to people, or like to "tease", or bring up subjects they know will rankle people, and then sort of conceal it with "you know I'm kidding" or "I'm just being honest" or something. I've known a number of such people. One of them is my older brother who has done this since we were kids and it was not until I was an adult that I realized I could tell him "actually that is a hurtful thing to say and I would prefer you stopped."

I have no idea if the PP is bothered by your comments on the thread or what, but surely you realize this is a known personality type and, if you are in fact someone who goes out of their way not to be unkind to people, you notice and area also annoyed by those people. Right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think one thing a person can never really come back from is a racist micro aggression. Especially at work.

I am 99% with you, the only thing I'd say is did the person realize what they were saying? I think some people have no idea that something is a microaggression because they're an idiot, but being stupid and being mean are not the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When we told FIL and SMIL that we were getting married, FIL immediately (in front of me and other extended family) asked H if he was “trapped.” Not only was I not pregnant, we had never had sex. I let it go to a point, but we both were horrified and it definitely set a tone. The trapped language is gross but if he had privately asked H it would be kind of understandable because we did not date for long and set a speedy wedding date.

I mean, you're the one who told them the news in front of everyone. You clearly surprised them and he reacted out of surprise. Sure, it was a rude comment, but you sound dramatic and could have handled the situation a lot better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s fine for you to decide you don’t want the person around bc that specific comment (even if trivial to some) is a trust breaker for you.

I had a friend for years I was very close to, we’d gone on family trips together, been there for milestones. She had a big personality and would often say little things I’d brush off as just her being unfiltered. Then one time, very casually and laughing, she made a really mean comment about my dh out of the blue and laughing. That was it for me and I distanced myself.

I had a friend like this and I also hit a breaking point. I'm someone who will give someone a lot of rope if the "offense" is just talk, but there are limits and at some point you've just had enough. I also think in my case the "friend" was actually intentionally being rude to me out of some hostility (no idea where it came from) and then was concealing it with "just kidding." Earlier on when I thought maybe she was just very uncouth or didn't have a good filter, I was forgiving, but with time it really started to seem like the comments were intended to make me feel bad. I stopped feeling like I was getting anything good out of the relationship.

This wouldn't fly with me. We may all say things we regret, but apologizing for those things is how you handle it, not by saying you were just kidding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regarding apologies, a lot depends for me on who soon they apologize and the nature of the apology.

I once had a friend absolutely refuse to apologize for some unkind things she did for over a year, and then the apology took the form of "I'm sorry you misunderstood what I meant." That was a situation where the apology actually made me dislike her more, because she'd worked so hard to avoid giving it and then when she did it wasn't a real apology, basically telling me it was my own fault if I was upset. Nope. She is responsible for the words that come out of her mouth and she had a year to clarify or explain. Also if something I do causes a friend distress, I will apologize for causing the distress even if it was totally unintended and due to a misunderstanding, because I care about my friends and don't want them to feel bad.

Some people have no capacity for taking responsibility for their own behavior. Also, some people freak out at the idea that they might be at fault or even just partially at fault for something -- they will blame everyone but themselves. It's just immaturity. I don't have the energy for it.

All of this. PP, we could be friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one thing a person can never really come back from is a racist micro aggression. Especially at work.

I am 99% with you, the only thing I'd say is did the person realize what they were saying? I think some people have no idea that something is a microaggression because they're an idiot, but being stupid and being mean are not the same thing.

I agree. I think someone could come back from a racist micro aggression if it is brought to their attention and they immediately apologize, thank you for letting them know it's a micoraggression, and change future behavior. A lot of racism really is subconscious and programmed and if a person engages in it without realizing it, they should be given a chance to do better.

I'd be WAY more concerned about overt racism that is not a microagression and that anyone in 2026 would know was racist. I feel a lot less generous towards people like that, who have likely been told MANY times that their comments are racist but persist in them. Whereas a micro aggression can sometimes be something under the radar that a person isn't even aware of, like always calling on the white people in a meeting first, or expecting the black person on a team to know more about rap music than the white members. It's usually not something overt or conscious, but someone making a subconscious assumption without realizing it has racist implications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s fine for you to decide you don’t want the person around bc that specific comment (even if trivial to some) is a trust breaker for you.

I had a friend for years I was very close to, we’d gone on family trips together, been there for milestones. She had a big personality and would often say little things I’d brush off as just her being unfiltered. Then one time, very casually and laughing, she made a really mean comment about my dh out of the blue and laughing. That was it for me and I distanced myself.

What did she say about him?

If someone said they thought my husband was ugly I'd shrug it off. I think he's quite good looking and that's all that matters. If they said he was stupid, I'd think they were crazy because he's not. Now, if they said they thought he was an abuser or something, that's a different ballgame.

DP. I would personally not want to be friends with someone who thought it was funny to call my husband ugly or stupid, even if I knew those things were not true. Those aren't funny jokes. It's not that I'd be worried that it was true, it's that it's just a rude, weird thing to say. Either they actually think those things, in which case I don't want to be around someone who thinks so poorly of someone I love, or they think it's fun to insult people for no reason, in which case they just have a bad sense of humor and a bad personality. Either way, no thank you.

I'm PP. I agree with you, I wouldn't think it was funny. I guess I was saying someone might find my husband ugly (I certainly don't find all of my friends' spouses to be attractive!). If that person told someone else how they felt, I don't think I'd be particularly upset about it. They have the right to their opinion. Now, why they would bother saying that is a different situation. (I would never think to tell someone I thought someone else's husband was ugly, what purpose would that serve?).

I guess I just disagree with your statement that I wouldn't want to be around someone who thinks so poorly of someone I love when that thing is subjective. I think my best friend's husband is disgustingly overweight and unattractive. I've never said that to anyone and it doesn't matter what I think about him. But it doesn't affect our 35-year friendship at all. Why do you have to find someone's spouse attractive or smart in order to be friends with them?

I do agree with you that I'm not sure I'd want to be friends with someone who would say those things, but also, people are entitled to their opinions. If you think my husband is ugly, ok. I can't imagine a situation in which that would come up, but if it did, you're entitled to your opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:7:07 That is not remotely similar. That was something that happened to her in life and she would have no idea how you would take it. How would she know you would have been bothered by the sheer mention of your ex's name? This is about an insult that someone gave about OP when they were specifically invited by OP to enjoy in OP's hospitality. This friend of yours that ran into your ex isn't insulting you or anything you've done. You sound like a drama queen always looking for the negative.

DP I think it's pretty common sense that it's courteous not to bring up people's exes to them. I don't do that, but I'm polite.

If someone told me they had run into ANY of my exes I wouldn't be upset with them. But I'm not a drama queen.

DP. I think it depends on the situation. I wouldn't be upset with someone who brought up one of my exes but there are situations where it would be awkward. Also it might depend on how they brought it up.

I had a friend once who ALWAYS brought up this woman I'd worked with and not gotten along with, whenever we hung out. Sometimes she'd tell me mean or negative things about this woman, I think to try and get me to gossip. Other times she'd tell me positive things, I'm not sure why. I would generally respond by saying something like "that's nice" or "that's too bad" and then "you know I'm not friends with her, so..." and then try to change the subject. But she still kept doing it.

I don't know if she was trying to bait me or if maybe just did it compulsively but it was really annoying and over time I stopped hanging out with this friend because the conversation was boring and awkward. So even when it's not *offensive* to be bringing up an ex (or in this case an ex-colleague), it's a weird thing to keep mentioning and indicates poor conversational skills and lack of situational awareness. Why not talk about something you both enjoy instead?

Sure, but it sounds like in the example the person mentioned it once?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s fine for you to decide you don’t want the person around bc that specific comment (even if trivial to some) is a trust breaker for you.

I had a friend for years I was very close to, we’d gone on family trips together, been there for milestones. She had a big personality and would often say little things I’d brush off as just her being unfiltered. Then one time, very casually and laughing, she made a really mean comment about my dh out of the blue and laughing. That was it for me and I distanced myself.

I had a friend like this and I also hit a breaking point. I'm someone who will give someone a lot of rope if the "offense" is just talk, but there are limits and at some point you've just had enough. I also think in my case the "friend" was actually intentionally being rude to me out of some hostility (no idea where it came from) and then was concealing it with "just kidding." Earlier on when I thought maybe she was just very uncouth or didn't have a good filter, I was forgiving, but with time it really started to seem like the comments were intended to make me feel bad. I stopped feeling like I was getting anything good out of the relationship.

This wouldn't fly with me. We may all say things we regret, but apologizing for those things is how you handle it, not by saying you were just kidding.

Agreed but some people 100% will lean on "just kidding" rather than taking responsibility for saying something hurtful. I have also known people who use "just kidding" as a way to test boundaries and see what they can get away with. I've seen this in work situations where a superior will "tease" someone at a lower level to see what they will take (or what they will pretend to be okay with) essentially to find out how much power they have over them.

This is called relational aggression. It's a form of bullying. Note that Donald Trump *loves* to use just kidding as a way to say really offensive or insane things without having to take responsibility for them if they don't land or someone calls him on it. And his minions will participate in this, rolling their eyes and saying "omg he was joking" if people are bothered by it. If someone thinks the current President of the United States is the first ahole to discover this tactic, then I envy the sheltered life they''ve led! People like this are everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like a lot of you in this thread are the sort of people who frequently say something incredibly shitty under the guise of “Just being honest!”

I have never, not once in my entire life, ever said something to someone for the purpose of hurting them. Not in an argument, not out of anger, never. I think that's the lowest kind of communication. So I'm curious which comments you think were made by people who would do what you said because I have commented on this thread.

DP and I believe you but surely you've encountered people who sometimes (or frequently) make negative comments to people, or like to "tease", or bring up subjects they know will rankle people, and then sort of conceal it with "you know I'm kidding" or "I'm just being honest" or something. I've known a number of such people. One of them is my older brother who has done this since we were kids and it was not until I was an adult that I realized I could tell him "actually that is a hurtful thing to say and I would prefer you stopped."

I have no idea if the PP is bothered by your comments on the thread or what, but surely you realize this is a known personality type and, if you are in fact someone who goes out of their way not to be unkind to people, you notice and area also annoyed by those people. Right?

I've certainly encountered people like that but I have zero interest in engaging with them beyond that. My question to the PP was what comments made them think some posters were those kinds of people? Because I said I think OP was being dramatic about the cooking comment (of course, now we *maybe* know more about what actually happened, which is a completely different version of events) but that doesn't mean I'm the kind of person who would say something mean and then say oh I was kidding. So I was curious which posts PP thought were made by those kinds of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s fine for you to decide you don’t want the person around bc that specific comment (even if trivial to some) is a trust breaker for you.

I had a friend for years I was very close to, we’d gone on family trips together, been there for milestones. She had a big personality and would often say little things I’d brush off as just her being unfiltered. Then one time, very casually and laughing, she made a really mean comment about my dh out of the blue and laughing. That was it for me and I distanced myself.

What did she say about him?

If someone said they thought my husband was ugly I'd shrug it off. I think he's quite good looking and that's all that matters. If they said he was stupid, I'd think they were crazy because he's not. Now, if they said they thought he was an abuser or something, that's a different ballgame.

DP. I would personally not want to be friends with someone who thought it was funny to call my husband ugly or stupid, even if I knew those things were not true. Those aren't funny jokes. It's not that I'd be worried that it was true, it's that it's just a rude, weird thing to say. Either they actually think those things, in which case I don't want to be around someone who thinks so poorly of someone I love, or they think it's fun to insult people for no reason, in which case they just have a bad sense of humor and a bad personality. Either way, no thank you.

I'm PP. I agree with you, I wouldn't think it was funny. I guess I was saying someone might find my husband ugly (I certainly don't find all of my friends' spouses to be attractive!). If that person told someone else how they felt, I don't think I'd be particularly upset about it. They have the right to their opinion. Now, why they would bother saying that is a different situation. (I would never think to tell someone I thought someone else's husband was ugly, what purpose would that serve?).

I guess I just disagree with your statement that I wouldn't want to be around someone who thinks so poorly of someone I love when that thing is subjective. I think my best friend's husband is disgustingly overweight and unattractive. I've never said that to anyone and it doesn't matter what I think about him. But it doesn't affect our 35-year friendship at all. Why do you have to find someone's spouse attractive or smart in order to be friends with them?

I do agree with you that I'm not sure I'd want to be friends with someone who would say those things, but also, people are entitled to their opinions. If you think my husband is ugly, ok. I can't imagine a situation in which that would come up, but if it did, you're entitled to your opinion.

The PP said that her friend said the unkind thing about her DH directly to her, while laughing. Not behind her back. That would be unacceptable to me.

Also I actually bet that the fact that you find your best friend's husband to be "disgustingly overweight and unattractive" does impact your friendship even though you've never expressed it. It's very hard for people to fully conceal disgust and if you've known these people a long time, I bet the husband and likely your friend know you are disgusted by him, and it impacts how they feel about you. You just cannot hide stuff like that longterm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:7:07 That is not remotely similar. That was something that happened to her in life and she would have no idea how you would take it. How would she know you would have been bothered by the sheer mention of your ex's name? This is about an insult that someone gave about OP when they were specifically invited by OP to enjoy in OP's hospitality. This friend of yours that ran into your ex isn't insulting you or anything you've done. You sound like a drama queen always looking for the negative.

DP I think it's pretty common sense that it's courteous not to bring up people's exes to them. I don't do that, but I'm polite.

If someone told me they had run into ANY of my exes I wouldn't be upset with them. But I'm not a drama queen.

DP. I think it depends on the situation. I wouldn't be upset with someone who brought up one of my exes but there are situations where it would be awkward. Also it might depend on how they brought it up.

I had a friend once who ALWAYS brought up this woman I'd worked with and not gotten along with, whenever we hung out. Sometimes she'd tell me mean or negative things about this woman, I think to try and get me to gossip. Other times she'd tell me positive things, I'm not sure why. I would generally respond by saying something like "that's nice" or "that's too bad" and then "you know I'm not friends with her, so..." and then try to change the subject. But she still kept doing it.

I don't know if she was trying to bait me or if maybe just did it compulsively but it was really annoying and over time I stopped hanging out with this friend because the conversation was boring and awkward. So even when it's not *offensive* to be bringing up an ex (or in this case an ex-colleague), it's a weird thing to keep mentioning and indicates poor conversational skills and lack of situational awareness. Why not talk about something you both enjoy instead?

Yeah, PP said the breakup was not nice and I would expect a friend to know that. I don't think it's "drama queen" behavior to wonder why a friend would bring up an ex you had negative feelings about.

I have a friend similar to yours. I had another friend where I was not invited to the wedding, which was weird because I was invited to the engagement party and gave a gift at that. My friend would always bring up a mutual friend who WAS at the wedding. It was weird and felt like she just wanted to remind me I wasn't invited.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, meant to say she would bring up a mutual friend being at the wedding. So she'd be like "Remember Jane? You know Kevin and Sarah went to her wedding." Like, okay, I get it. They were there and I wasn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d be more surprised and hurt that my friend was talking smack about me behind my back and the content of her bad mouthing wouldn’t really matter.

If they were talking about cooking and she said “Karla isn’t a very good cook but she has some recipes I’ve tried myself and liked”, and you over heard and her response was “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to be unkind - what a stupid thing for me to say out loud, I’m sorry”, I’d totally forget about it and move on.

Again- the problem is your friend got angry and said a mean thing about you behind your back for the sole purpose of hurting your feelings. Doesn’t matter what the thing is she said

My experience has been that women always do this. Every group I've been in will smack talk one of the group who isn't there. I automatically dislike the person who starts the gossip, but most women seem to go along with it and join in. Most are insecure and are happy the gossip isn't about them. If you don't join in or let them know you want no part of the trash talk, you will upset the alpha gossip mom and you will become the target. This is a pattern that repeats again and again.

[Anonymous]

Life is too short to tolerate people for no real reason.