Are there things people can say or do that you can’t really come back from, even with an apology?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d be more surprised and hurt that my friend was talking smack about me behind my back and the content of her bad mouthing wouldn’t really matter.

If they were talking about cooking and she said “Karla isn’t a very good cook but she has some recipes I’ve tried myself and liked”, and you over heard and her response was “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to be unkind - what a stupid thing for me to say out loud, I’m sorry”, I’d totally forget about it and move on.

Again- the problem is your friend got angry and said a mean thing about you behind your back for the sole purpose of hurting your feelings. Doesn’t matter what the thing is she said

My experience has been that women always do this. Every group I've been in will smack talk one of the group who isn't there. I automatically dislike the person who starts the gossip, but most women seem to go along with it and join in. Most are insecure and are happy the gossip isn't about them. If you don't join in or let them know you want no part of the trash talk, you will upset the alpha gossip mom and you will become the target. This is a pattern that repeats again and again.

This is why I don't do big female friend groups. I've found they tend to lead to this inevitably, because there are always little conflicts between some of the people in the group, and those people will always seek to discuss their conflicts with other members of the group because, those are their friends. It's a terrible dynamic.

I have a couple very loose friend groups with mixed men and women and they don't do this, as people are not really forced into spending time with anyone they don't like and if anyone has issues they can deal with it directly themselves. It's when the group is mostly or all women, all around the same age and in the same general life phase (increasing competition), and often does things together all as a group, that there is trouble.

I've been in multiple female friend groups (some from my activities like work, grad school, etc.; some due to my kids such as moms of their classmates; and some from our neighborhood) and I have never come across conflicts like this. Sure, not everyone loves everyone else - there are multiple people I would spend time with 1:1 and others I would not - but no one is gossiping behind anyone's back, creating drama, etc. We're all busy women with kids and jobs and don't have time for that kind of pettiness. On the flip side, we come together when someone needs something (i.e. a death in the family, job loss, divorce, etc.), and we have fun together a lot. There are side texts and smaller groups but it's never an issue. Maybe part of that is that no one is the kind who posts on social media, which seems to lead to a lot of these feelings of exclusion. I'd say we're all pretty type A and competitive (we're all pretty ambitious professionally, for example), but I don't feel competitive with any of them. I am aware of other groups who have these issues, but I've always gotten a whiff of that pretty quickly and declined to participate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like a lot of you in this thread are the sort of people who frequently say something incredibly shitty under the guise of “Just being honest!”

I have never, not once in my entire life, ever said something to someone for the purpose of hurting them. Not in an argument, not out of anger, never. I think that's the lowest kind of communication. So I'm curious which comments you think were made by people who would do what you said because I have commented on this thread.

You know you’re a dependent person, that’s why I didn’t invite you on my milestone birthday trip. Honest but very hurtful.

It's unclear to me whether you are answering the question asked, which is what posts does the first PP think were made by the kind of people who say shitty things under the guise of being honest.

That statement is something I'd never say, even if true. There are a lot of things I could say to some of my friends that are true but they would be hurtful and would serve no purpose so I wouldn't do it. I'm not sure how I would handle your situation, but I find it odd that someone being a dependent person would mean they couldn't come on a trip? Clearly more to the story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As to the general question posed by OP, the answer has to be "yes" ... there are things even an apology won't fix.

Not necessarily in OP's example because I think that is pretty benign.

Too many people do horrid things to other people for long periods of time and think an insincere "I'm sorry" will fix it.

It won't.

I just had this happen. Person treated me coldly and dismissively for more than 20 years. When someone else brought it up I was sent a performative "IF I hurt you, I'm sorry..."

Nope. Not falling for it.

Yes, the "if" I did something, the "I'm sorry BUT," the "I'm sorry YOU FEEL THAT WAY," all of those are BS apologies.

Honestly, after 20 years of being treated badly, I'm not sure even a very sincere apology would work for me. That's pretty hard to walk back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When we told FIL and SMIL that we were getting married, FIL immediately (in front of me and other extended family) asked H if he was “trapped.” Not only was I not pregnant, we had never had sex. I let it go to a point, but we both were horrified and it definitely set a tone. The trapped language is gross but if he had privately asked H it would be kind of understandable because we did not date for long and set a speedy wedding date.

I mean, you're the one who told them the news in front of everyone. You clearly surprised them and he reacted out of surprise. Sure, it was a rude comment, but you sound dramatic and could have handled the situation a lot better.

Right, it’s so abnormal to announce an engagement at a family dinner. FTR, H did all the talking and we both remained gracious and calm. But it was extremely rude and no one does that. You don’t bellow reproductive interrogations at your son and future DIL.

I mean, you can convince yourself of your "rightness" all you want. Some people disagree with you. But you seem to want to hang on to the anger, so go with it. Keep telling the story. Don't move past it.

And no, I'm not a doormat. We don't speak to my husband's parents anymore after instances of verbal abuse so I don't think people can say whatever they want to say whenever they want to say it, even if they are family. But I think your example is petty and so are you. You obviously don't have to agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like a lot of you in this thread are the sort of people who frequently say something incredibly shitty under the guise of “Just being honest!”

I have never, not once in my entire life, ever said something to someone for the purpose of hurting them. Not in an argument, not out of anger, never. I think that's the lowest kind of communication. So I'm curious which comments you think were made by people who would do what you said because I have commented on this thread.

You know you’re a dependent person, that’s why I didn’t invite you on my milestone birthday trip. Honest but very hurtful.

It's unclear to me whether you are answering the question asked, which is what posts does the first PP think were made by the kind of people who say shitty things under the guise of being honest.

That statement is something I'd never say, even if true. There are a lot of things I could say to some of my friends that are true but they would be hurtful and would serve no purpose so I wouldn't do it. I'm not sure how I would handle your situation, but I find it odd that someone being a dependent person would mean they couldn't come on a trip? Clearly more to the story.

My friend asked why she wasn’t invited on my milestone birthday trip. The honest answer is what I wrote - she’s so dependent it would be like having a child on the trip instead of a grown woman, so I didn’t invite her. But I would never actually say that because I am not sure our friendship would survive that level of honesty

[Anonymous]

You are definitely overreacting, but you can also stop inviting this person to things without feeling bad about it.

[Anonymous]

A lot of tangent comments on this thread (as always), didn’t read all the responses but I would be more upset with the person who passed on this comment.

Things can be taken out of context, could have been more of an off-hand joke, etc.
She caused unnecessary harm/rift by telling you - not a person I would trust…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one thing a person can never really come back from is a racist micro aggression. Especially at work.

I am 99% with you, the only thing I'd say is did the person realize what they were saying? I think some people have no idea that something is a microaggression because they're an idiot, but being stupid and being mean are not the same thing.

I agree. I think someone could come back from a racist micro aggression if it is brought to their attention and they immediately apologize, thank you for letting them know it's a micoraggression, and change future behavior. A lot of racism really is subconscious and programmed and if a person engages in it without realizing it, they should be given a chance to do better.

I'd be WAY more concerned about overt racism that is not a microagression and that anyone in 2026 would know was racist. I feel a lot less generous towards people like that, who have likely been told MANY times that their comments are racist but persist in them. Whereas a micro aggression can sometimes be something under the radar that a person isn't even aware of, like always calling on the white people in a meeting first, or expecting the black person on a team to know more about rap music than the white members. It's usually not something overt or conscious, but someone making a subconscious assumption without realizing it has racist implications.

I agree and have An example. My mother-in-law Referenced an extended family member who is Asian as oriental to their face because she thought it was a more polite/posh way of saying Asian. She didn’t realize how outdated the term is and that it applies to objects, not people. When her mistake was corrected She felt terrible but someone not knowing my mother-in-law could have thought she was just being racist and ignorant.

I think the intent matters. The person criticizing the cooking didn't really intend for it to be taken in any other way. It's just mean to be mean.

Yes, I agree. However, I was responding to the statement that racial micro aggression should not be forgiven.

Asian here and I don't take offense at the term 'oriental' from certain demographics.
Those demographics would consist of the elderly, uneducated and maybe untouched by woke-ism sorts, like maybe an Albanian.
It is a term from another era, like calling black folks colored. That era is associated with a backwardness but some people do not connect era with fashionable vocabulary usage which continues to change. At some point the term 'Asian' will be considered backwards and offensive too because it doesn't recognize the different cultures and people's of Asia.
Some things that are considered microagressions come from rigid and judge thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, the "friend" who told you, did you no favors. I wouldn't consider that third-party a friend.

Who relays a message like that? They meant to hurt you, probably more, than the person who they-say said it.

This was exactly my thought! —NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one thing a person can never really come back from is a racist micro aggression. Especially at work.

I am 99% with you, the only thing I'd say is did the person realize what they were saying? I think some people have no idea that something is a microaggression because they're an idiot, but being stupid and being mean are not the same thing.

I agree. I think someone could come back from a racist micro aggression if it is brought to their attention and they immediately apologize, thank you for letting them know it's a micoraggression, and change future behavior. A lot of racism really is subconscious and programmed and if a person engages in it without realizing it, they should be given a chance to do better.

I'd be WAY more concerned about overt racism that is not a microagression and that anyone in 2026 would know was racist. I feel a lot less generous towards people like that, who have likely been told MANY times that their comments are racist but persist in them. Whereas a micro aggression can sometimes be something under the radar that a person isn't even aware of, like always calling on the white people in a meeting first, or expecting the black person on a team to know more about rap music than the white members. It's usually not something overt or conscious, but someone making a subconscious assumption without realizing it has racist implications.

I agree and have An example. My mother-in-law Referenced an extended family member who is Asian as oriental to their face because she thought it was a more polite/posh way of saying Asian. She didn’t realize how outdated the term is and that it applies to objects, not people. When her mistake was corrected She felt terrible but someone not knowing my mother-in-law could have thought she was just being racist and ignorant.

I think the intent matters. The person criticizing the cooking didn't really intend for it to be taken in any other way. It's just mean to be mean.

Yes, I agree. However, I was responding to the statement that racial micro aggression should not be forgiven.

Asian here and I don't take offense at the term 'oriental' from certain demographics.
Those demographics would consist of the elderly, uneducated and maybe untouched by woke-ism sorts, like maybe an Albanian.
It is a term from another era, like calling black folks colored. That era is associated with a backwardness but some people do not connect era with fashionable vocabulary usage which continues to change. At some point the term 'Asian' will be considered backwards and offensive too because it doesn't recognize the different cultures and people's of Asia.
Some things that are considered microagressions come from rigid and judge thinking.

Nuanced and intelligent comment, PP. I'm impressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When we told FIL and SMIL that we were getting married, FIL immediately (in front of me and other extended family) asked H if he was “trapped.” Not only was I not pregnant, we had never had sex. I let it go to a point, but we both were horrified and it definitely set a tone. The trapped language is gross but if he had privately asked H it would be kind of understandable because we did not date for long and set a speedy wedding date.

I mean, you're the one who told them the news in front of everyone. You clearly surprised them and he reacted out of surprise. Sure, it was a rude comment, but you sound dramatic and could have handled the situation a lot better.

Right, it’s so abnormal to announce an engagement at a family dinner. FTR, H did all the talking and we both remained gracious and calm. But it was extremely rude and no one does that. You don’t bellow reproductive interrogations at your son and future DIL.

I mean, you can convince yourself of your "rightness" all you want. Some people disagree with you. But you seem to want to hang on to the anger, so go with it. Keep telling the story. Don't move past it.

And no, I'm not a doormat. We don't speak to my husband's parents anymore after instances of verbal abuse so I don't think people can say whatever they want to say whenever they want to say it, even if they are family. But I think your example is petty and so are you. You obviously don't have to agree.

I never said you were a doormat? I could have given a lot of other examples, because we tried for years to turn the other cheek, and maybe you’d give your imprimatur to one of those. But I don’t need your validation or approval.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would be more likely to be upset with the mutual friend who told me about the remark about my cooking, than I would with the person who didn't like my cooking.

What a crazy response. I'd rather now the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be more likely to be upset with the mutual friend who told me about the remark about my cooking, than I would with the person who didn't like my cooking.

I’m also curious why your mutual friend decided to share that remark with you. Did they think it was for your benefit or did they have some other motive? Can you be sure that what they shared was unbiased? Why were they both talking negatively about you in the first place? Something seems off here.

I'd don't get this. I've struggled with women friends who trash another to me and I've been appalled by how unfair and awful the comments are. I've distanced myself from women who do this and I always feel I should warn the party being discussed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For years, someone regularly attends your dinner parties. You’ve hosted their family and friends, gone out of your way to be inclusive, and they’ve always complimented the food and the gatherings.

Then, completely unrelated to the dinners, this person is angry about something else and tells a third party that you’ve actually “never been a very good cook.” That comment gets back to you. When confronted, they say they “didn’t mean it.”

Here’s where I’m stuck. If they “didn’t mean it”, then they were willing to weaponize my hospitality to score points or hurt me while angry. If they did mean it, then they were dishonest for years and chose a moment of conflict to unload it. Either way, it feels less about food and more about trust and respect. I’m having trouble seeing a path forward where I continue hosting this person in my home. Not out of spite, but because something fundamental feels broken. Am I overreacting, or is it reasonable to decide that some dynamics don’t recover once you see how someone behaves when they’re upset?

Absolutely. I had a boss once who was impossible a and he was genuinely loathed by everyone. I finally couldn't stand him any longer and found a new job.

He insisted on an exit interview, which was his review of all my faults. Eventually , he asked if I had anything to say and I was tempted to tell him he was an obnoxious jerk and it was easy to understand why his son had committed suicide. But that voice we call our conscience told me that he would never recover from this and I said no, stood up, wished him well, and left.

I also believe that I would never have recovered if I had told him that.

I'm not going to derail the thread with this but you get zero credit for not having said those words out loud. The fact that you even thought that is disgusting. You need to really work on yourself.

Oh go f yourself PP.

I love the bolded. It's really insightful to understand that you would be hurting yourself forever if you hurt someone else that profoundly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think it’s odd that you confronted them. Who cares if they think you’re not a good cook. You made it weird. What did you expect them to say? It’s not a performance review.

+1000

I would never bring that up to someone. That doesn't mean I would completely ignore it, I might not invite them to dinners anymore, although I still think that's a bit dramatic, but that is not worth confronting someone about, goodness. Also, the person who told you about it is now going to have issues since you betrayed her trust. So have fun with the consequences of what you did (to make this friend angry in the first place and then the way you handled it).

Many posters on this thread have reading comprehension issues.