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Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:Um, I did above your post... That's one, to help you along in your journey.
No, you did not!
Above Jeff's post? Indeed did. Look for yourself.
I saw what you posted . There is no evidence that it was to attack kindergarteners, that was the point I was trying to make
So sorry for your loss PP. May God give you strength to go through this difficult time!
I would be hurt about losing the family member, not the lost inheritance
Lol. Op, i just google "Pro Palestine" and did not get an error , you might want to try again 
Anonymous wrote:Um, I did above your post... That's one, to help you along in your journey.
No, you did not!
Anonymous wrote:You might want to listen to what I have to say, because I am trying to explain why Americans are not moved to support your case the way you (or others) keep saying they are in other parts of the world. It's because of what goes into making the American psyche what it is -- namely, being made up of all kinds of people from all parts of the world in a country that is constantly changing as a result of world turmoil. But peace be with you too Spock.
You might not, but many Americans are supporting the Palestinian case and people all around the world are waking up. In the past 2 weeks, hundreds of marches have been going around the world, here in the US with tens of thousands of people marching for the freedom of Palestine. Americans are moved, the american government not so much. What you have to realize is that to ask a people to live quietly, while they have no justice and no freedom, is to ask them to live "peacefully" as slaves. "Peace" without justice or freedom is slavery. It's like asking a battered woman to live "peacefully" with her abuse. We all want the bloodshed to stop. But what about the daily humiliation and institutionalized oppression?
Consider this: If a woman is being raped, things would be a lot more "peaceful" if she didn't resist. But, asking her not to resist--just because her attacker is physically stronger--is asking her to accept her own abuse and oppression for the sake of "peace". This is what the world is asking Palestinians to do.
And sometimes what seems to the world as just ineffective tactics, like throwing a rock at a tank, is in fact an act of resistance. It is a powerful statement to the oppressor--and the world--that they refuse to be enslaved. That dignity and self-respect are even more beloved to them than their own lives. It is a statement that you can take their lives. But not their freedom. #freepalestine
Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The Palestinians are not the world's first dispossessed people, but they are the first to be asked to legitimize what happened to them.
OMG, there is nothing unique about their situation. The only thing unique about it is that they cannot tolerate living with, beside or in another country -- Israel. Can you imagine if people behaved this way when Pakistan was created, or any of the other countries that were created or dissolved in just the last 100 years? It's a ridiculous argument.
For the Pakistan situation to be equivalent, the British would have had to promise the same land to the Hindus and Pakistanis. Then they would have had to divide the land up so that Muslims got half, and Hindus got half, despite the fact that Hindus outnumbered Muslims 10:1. This would have required the displacement of about 390 million Hindus from their homes instead of the modest 7 million Hindus.
So even given the more equitable division of India, they still had four wars: 47, 65, 71 and 99. They had decades of communal riots. Mahatma Gahndi was assassinated, and so was Indira Gandhi. Again to make the situation comparable today, India would be occupying Pakistan and Bangladesh. They would strictly control the goods and people going into and out of these two countries. And if Pakistanis did so much as throw rocks in protest, they would be considered terrorists.
Why does it have to be equivalent to be relevant? The point is that borders are not set in stone. Countries have come and gone throughout history. Being displaced is nothing new. I don't know how anyone Americans can see it otherwise, since -- as I've said in other threads -- this country is built on the hard work of the displaced. Most people here have roots somewhere else, no?
Does it make it right? We have to be better than History, we don't go around repeating slavery, segregation, holocaust, colonialism on the basis that that's how things were done before. We learn from our mistakes, we grow to be civilized people and once we know better we do better. Occupation, Colonization, Holocaust, you name in, in all cases, they tend to work out badly for everyone involved, whether you get classed as 'us' or 'them'.
You're missing my point -- which is that the millions (countless really) of people throughout history who have been displaced and whose countries have been redefined under their feet have not resorted to endless terrorism and war as a response to that. But you are using it to justify violence against Israel that will never end, which in turn means the killing of innocent Palestinian civilians, including children. That is an insane response IMO.
And you're using it to justify land grabs and endless subjugation of one people by another! Why SHOULD violence against Israel end when it never admitted any wrongdoing toward the Palestinians? When respected historians in Israel can casually say things like, yes, we expelled half a million Palestinians but it was necessary for the creation of the Jewish state so it was OK for them to be expelled, it was for a good cause. Can you imagine ANY other country saying it? Justifying it?
I'm not doing anything of the sort. I'm not talking about Israel at all -- I'm talking about what I find unconvincing in the Palestinian side of this argument.
But how do you unhook the "Palestinian side of the argument" from the root cause? What would you have Palestinians do to end the land grabs, the oppression, the discrimination, and oh yeah, the endless demonization of the armed resistance against an oppressive occupier? Sing songs around the campfire?
Well, I'm certainly not an expert on the situation and I have posted as much already, but it sure seems to me that Israel is responding to Palestinian provocation.
I agree about the bolded part. Clearly, the best thing you've said all night
I'm just trying to explain my POV. I realize people can be bitches on any subject on DCUM and that's your right, but you certainly aren't helping your case.
I don't have a case to make with you. Peace be upon you!
Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:A Hamas tunnel under an Israeli kindergarten. I'm sure that was there for self-defense or humanitarian purposes. God you people are naive!
My God, they’re tunneling into the bedroom? Hide the jewelry ! Do you have any evidence that Hamas tunnelers have targeted Israeli kindergartens?
A Tunnel exit was found under a kindergarten. Explain the benign reason for this
Source???
Anonymous wrote:From the WSJ:
"Earlier this month Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri appeared on Al-Aqsa TV and encouraged Gaza residents to act as human shields. They appear to have heeded the call: Israeli Defense Forces combat video has shown Palestinians rushing to rooftops after receiving warnings from Israel—via phone calls, text messages, and unarmed "knock-knock" small projectiles striking a targeted building—that a missile attack is imminent."
I guess this was Hamas using a Palestinian child as a human shield?????
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The Palestinians are not the world's first dispossessed people, but they are the first to be asked to legitimize what happened to them.
OMG, there is nothing unique about their situation. The only thing unique about it is that they cannot tolerate living with, beside or in another country -- Israel. Can you imagine if people behaved this way when Pakistan was created, or any of the other countries that were created or dissolved in just the last 100 years? It's a ridiculous argument.
For the Pakistan situation to be equivalent, the British would have had to promise the same land to the Hindus and Pakistanis. Then they would have had to divide the land up so that Muslims got half, and Hindus got half, despite the fact that Hindus outnumbered Muslims 10:1. This would have required the displacement of about 390 million Hindus from their homes instead of the modest 7 million Hindus.
So even given the more equitable division of India, they still had four wars: 47, 65, 71 and 99. They had decades of communal riots. Mahatma Gahndi was assassinated, and so was Indira Gandhi. Again to make the situation comparable today, India would be occupying Pakistan and Bangladesh. They would strictly control the goods and people going into and out of these two countries. And if Pakistanis did so much as throw rocks in protest, they would be considered terrorists.
Why does it have to be equivalent to be relevant? The point is that borders are not set in stone. Countries have come and gone throughout history. Being displaced is nothing new. I don't know how anyone Americans can see it otherwise, since -- as I've said in other threads -- this country is built on the hard work of the displaced. Most people here have roots somewhere else, no?
Does it make it right? We have to be better than History, we don't go around repeating slavery, segregation, holocaust, colonialism on the basis that that's how things were done before. We learn from our mistakes, we grow to be civilized people and once we know better we do better. Occupation, Colonization, Holocaust, you name in, in all cases, they tend to work out badly for everyone involved, whether you get classed as 'us' or 'them'.
You're missing my point -- which is that the millions (countless really) of people throughout history who have been displaced and whose countries have been redefined under their feet have not resorted to endless terrorism and war as a response to that. But you are using it to justify violence against Israel that will never end, which in turn means the killing of innocent Palestinian civilians, including children. That is an insane response IMO.
And you're using it to justify land grabs and endless subjugation of one people by another! Why SHOULD violence against Israel end when it never admitted any wrongdoing toward the Palestinians? When respected historians in Israel can casually say things like, yes, we expelled half a million Palestinians but it was necessary for the creation of the Jewish state so it was OK for them to be expelled, it was for a good cause. Can you imagine ANY other country saying it? Justifying it?
I'm not doing anything of the sort. I'm not talking about Israel at all -- I'm talking about what I find unconvincing in the Palestinian side of this argument.
But how do you unhook the "Palestinian side of the argument" from the root cause? What would you have Palestinians do to end the land grabs, the oppression, the discrimination, and oh yeah, the endless demonization of the armed resistance against an oppressive occupier? Sing songs around the campfire?
Well, I'm certainly not an expert on the situation and I have posted as much already, but it sure seems to me that Israel is responding to Palestinian provocation.
I agree about the bolded part. Clearly, the best thing you've said all night
You clearly do not understand this conflict at all, smh
Anonymous wrote:A Hamas tunnel under an Israeli kindergarten. I'm sure that was there for self-defense or humanitarian purposes. God you people are naive!
My God, they’re tunneling into the bedroom? Hide the jewelry ! Do you have any evidence that Hamas tunnelers have targeted Israeli kindergartens?
This is actually one issue that I am conflicted about. On one end, I totally understand the right of citizens to bear arms and some of the arguments make total sense to me. On the other, gun violence is so prominent in our society that i don't know what to think. It is really a tough one!
Yes, send him a message, what do you have to lose?
Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:Muslima wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The Palestinians are not the world's first dispossessed people, but they are the first to be asked to legitimize what happened to them.
OMG, there is nothing unique about their situation. The only thing unique about it is that they cannot tolerate living with, beside or in another country -- Israel. Can you imagine if people behaved this way when Pakistan was created, or any of the other countries that were created or dissolved in just the last 100 years? It's a ridiculous argument.
For the Pakistan situation to be equivalent, the British would have had to promise the same land to the Hindus and Pakistanis. Then they would have had to divide the land up so that Muslims got half, and Hindus got half, despite the fact that Hindus outnumbered Muslims 10:1. This would have required the displacement of about 390 million Hindus from their homes instead of the modest 7 million Hindus.
So even given the more equitable division of India, they still had four wars: 47, 65, 71 and 99. They had decades of communal riots. Mahatma Gahndi was assassinated, and so was Indira Gandhi. Again to make the situation comparable today, India would be occupying Pakistan and Bangladesh. They would strictly control the goods and people going into and out of these two countries. And if Pakistanis did so much as throw rocks in protest, they would be considered terrorists.
Why does it have to be equivalent to be relevant? The point is that borders are not set in stone. Countries have come and gone throughout history. Being displaced is nothing new. I don't know how anyone Americans can see it otherwise, since -- as I've said in other threads -- this country is built on the hard work of the displaced. Most people here have roots somewhere else, no?
Does it make it right? We have to be better than History, we don't go around repeating slavery, segregation, holocaust, colonialism on the basis that that's how things were done before. We learn from our mistakes, we grow to be civilized people and once we know better we do better. Occupation, Colonization, Holocaust, you name in, in all cases, they tend to work out badly for everyone involved, whether you get classed as 'us' or 'them'.
You're missing my point -- which is that the millions (countless really) of people throughout history who have been displaced and whose countries have been redefined under their feet have not resorted to endless terrorism and war as a response to that. But you are using it to justify violence against Israel that will never end, which in turn means the killing of innocent Palestinian civilians, including children. That is an insane response IMO.
Are you sure about that? I don't know of any people/countries who just sat down peacefully, smiles on their faces accepting to be colonized/enslaved/occupied . That did not happen and i don't see that ever happening. History books describe in great details how those countries that you are talking about fought endlessly til one party gave up because they were not strong enough or there was outside pressure or maybe they found their morality somewhere along the way. I dont see how the Palestinians are justifying violence since they are the victims here. In any case, one thing is for sure, Palestinians will fight till Palestine is free, Palestinians do not give up . The route to justice and freedom is paved by bravery, the blood of the people who fight for those ideals, and their memories. Today, most things are manufactured in China but courage is still manufactured in Palestine, and one day Ghaza will be free~
This is the problem right here. Don't complain about Palestinian blood being shed when you think it is such a badge of honor. I don't see Palestinians as victims -- i see them as provoking Israel again and again, then complaining that Israel metes out more damage than they do. Why is that a surprise? Why would you wage war against a foe that is so much stronger than you and then act like it's not fair that they win? That is not common sense and it's not good leadership, either.
You will never win with the tactics you use. Never. Israel is bigger and stronger, and has strategic allies in the world. If you want to change your lives, look to South Africa for a role model.
We are not ashamed of our deeds, do we want to die? No, do you think Palestinian people are born to just die? Do you think Palestinian mothers do not have any love for their children? Do you think that they send them on the streets to die? Does any mother, anywhere in the world send her kid to die? Does that make sense? We teach life, sir! Now, Israel has been fighting Palestine for about 60 years now, using advanced weapons and american financial support, against a country that has no weapons, no money and no central government and they still haven't won. It's ironic that you are saying that we need to look at the South Africa model, maybe you should tell that to Israel because Israel will never accept a one-state solution like they did in South Africa. Now, what you want is for Palestine to just give up, and kneel to the oppressor, that is not the legacy that Palestine wants to leave to its children....