Update to "Minimal amount of secret drinking"

[Anonymous]

I'm the OP of the "Minimal amount of secret drinking" thread: https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/983882.page

Today I'm not in a good place. DH stayed sober for 2 weeks. Two nights ago, on Thursday evening, I went and had dinner with a friend after putting our toddler to bed. DH stayed home with toddler and took about 6 shots of tequila. He didn't have access to booze in the house so he ordered on one of those booze delivery apps. It makes my heart feel cold that he could do this when DD is in his care, even if she's asleep. I said, "what if she needed you?" and he said "I was fine" before acquiescing to the fact that no one is fine after 6 shots. Before this, I felt a lot more sympathy for DH but today I am struggling to feel anything but negativity.

This only came to light because the following day, yesterday, I saw him take a pull from this bottle in his work bag as he was wrapping up his work from home day. He still tried to lie to my face.

So now I don't feel comfortable leaving the house anymore with DD in DH's care. And if we split, I have to worry about her safety even more. I feel so terribly guilty that I've given our toddler this life. She is so perfect and I really messed up. Thinking about the future and what DD and I will have to deal with makes me want to throw up.

Also - a bunch of PPs recommended Al-Anon, and I was able to go to a virtual meeting this week which was really good. The people were so nice. I am going to try to do another meeting soon.

There is more, but I wanted to get this out of my head while I have a minute. Thanks again to everyone who has been so kind to me.

[Anonymous]

I grew up with an alcoholic father. Although he never abused us he was a total drain on our home.

Leave for your and kids sake but also for his. He will either get better after getting the message or spiral into death. You can't keep doing this.

[Anonymous]

Does thinking of alcoholism as a disease that he is struggling to control help as a frame? His lying is part of the disease, not because he hates or disrespects you. You still have to take care of yourself and your daughter, but he is (probably) not deliberately trying to make your life miserable. You can still love him and coldly and dispassionately leave him to protect yourself. You don’t need to make yourself hate him first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up with an alcoholic father. Although he never abused us he was a total drain on our home.

Leave for your and kids sake but also for his. He will either get better after getting the message or spiral into death. You can't keep doing this.

OP here. I'm sorry you had to grow up like that. It's not fair.

He's told me a couple times now that he doesn't feel my support, that he needs more support, etc, but he hasn't taken any steps to actually find a program or treatment options. He's just going on willpower, which has failed over and over. I think he will look into some stuff now, but it's like nothing happens unless there's an incident that forces the issue. I am aware of the tendency for a drinker to attach blame to their partner who is standing in the way of unbridled drinking, and I feel that happening a bit. He said a couple things yesterday about how it's the restrictions that make it so hard and how he doesn't want to end up resenting me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does thinking of alcoholism as a disease that he is struggling to control help as a frame? His lying is part of the disease, not because he hates or disrespects you. You still have to take care of yourself and your daughter, but he is (probably) not deliberately trying to make your life miserable. You can still love him and coldly and dispassionately leave him to protect yourself. You don’t need to make yourself hate him first.

OP here. Thank you for this. That is helpful, and I really don't want to hate him.

I don't know that leaving will protect me and DD. It seems like it could be worse since there would be no check on the drinking.

[Anonymous]

You are doing better than you realize. You're seeing his lies and his inability to quit using will power. You're prioritizing your toddler's safety. You're getting help and a clear head by starting in Al-Anon (keep going!).

Just keep doing what you're doing. Do the next right thing. FWIW, I'm a recovering alcoholic and while I of course have hope for your husband, no one can know the time line of him getting help. Keep doing the next right thing.

[Anonymous]

I highly recommend Babette Wise, a therapist who specializes in addiction and does both individual and group therapy for alcoholics and spouses of alcoholics. She helped me tremendously when I was going through the same thing you are. Things turned around once DH started seeing her. He wanted to quit through willpower and didn’t think he needed a program. We made a deal that he could try it his way but if he relapsed, he had to go straight to rehab. Sure enough, he relapsed, went to inpatient rehab, then did 90 in 90 (90 AA meetings in 90 days) and has been sober for 11 years. He still does AA (is at a meeting now) and has found a great group of men who have become not only a support network, but friends. It was a long and scary road to get here though. You can’t make him get help, but you can get help for yourself. It’s great that you’re going to Al-Anon. I urge you to also see a counselor who specializes in addiction whether your husband will go with you or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does thinking of alcoholism as a disease that he is struggling to control help as a frame? His lying is part of the disease, not because he hates or disrespects you. You still have to take care of yourself and your daughter, but he is (probably) not deliberately trying to make your life miserable. You can still love him and coldly and dispassionately leave him to protect yourself. You don’t need to make yourself hate him first.

This is good advice. Don’t take his drinking personally but protect your person (and your kids).

OP, I left (or rather, told my now exDH to leave) for the same reasons you describe - secret drinking while he was caring for the kids. His mom was an alcoholic, with a lifelong history of being in and out of rehab and sober or not. So, I could very clearly see the enormous, lifelong negative impact of living with an alcoholic. It really messed him up psychologically, and there was no way I was going to allow that to happen with our kids. I was determined to break the intergenerational cycle of abuse.

I asked him to leave. Informally, I offered him 50/50 custody, but since he moved in with a friend for awhile, I retained full custody. I allowed him to visit in our home and made dinner and invited him. He would take the kids for one weekend day. He never showed up drunk, and I don’t believe he was drinking with them. TBH, sometimes he would cancel or cut short a day or even invite me along. In his own heart, I think he knew when he was unsafe and just didn’t show up or left. It was disappointing for the kids. It was hard on me - to always be positive, to always be available, etc. - but I thought it was better that the kids were safe. As they grew older, I thought they could protect themselves better.

In retrospect, perhaps I should have drawn harder boundaries and limited my time with him more. Even though I believed we were cordial to each other, there was still an underlying tension that the kids picked up on but was never discussed - which is its own sort of mindf#^ck.

One thing that became over time is that my ex had serious mental health issues driving his substance abuse. I encourage you to encourage your DH to visit with a psychiatrist ti address and anxiety, depression or hypomania that may be causing him to use alcoholism to self-medicate.

Ending the relationship was the best thing I ever did for all if us. I spent years talking to the kids about substance abuse and mental health. Now in HS and college, neither of them are substance users or abusers AFAIK. They both handle their mental health responsibly with psychiatrists and therapists. They have a decent relationship with their dad, although they view him as a bit irresponsible given the ways in which he has disappointed them. But, it’s better than having grown up with an alcoholic.

One of the keys to all this is that early on I jettisoned my anger about him and accepted that I could never rely on him for anything - no babysitting, no parenting at all. That recognition has made life much easier for all of us. It’s definitely affected my career negatively and my financial situation (although he pays child support).

Al anon is good but please get yourself an individual therapist to help you figure your way through this.

As for him - you are free to end the marriage at any time. No one has to live with alcoholism. Whether you stay or go, you need to sit down with him and essentially say, “I appreciate that you are trying to stop drinking. But what happened - you relapsing and drinking - is an indication that you need more support to stop. Let’s figure out what that is.”. Be prepared to offer - psychiatry appointment, therapist appointment, outpatient rehab program appointment, or inpatient rehab. You will likely have yo do the legwork on figuring out the options, availability and cost. Do either if you have employment benefits like an EAP?

[Anonymous]

Im so glad you started Al Anon!!

Keep going back. Hugs to you.

[Anonymous]

OP, as a recovering alcoholic, I just want to say to not take your husbands drinking and inability to stop as evidence that he doesn’t love you or your daughter,or your life together. He drinks because he is an addict and doesn’t love *himself* enough to stop.

Keep going to Al-anon. Set boundaries for yourself, and for him. You’re not going to change his mind; he has to do it and figure it out for himself. So live your life on your terms.

He hasn’t figured out yet that it’s the first drink that gets him drunk. That alcohol is baffling and cunning, or that he is powerless. All he knows is that he feels guilt and shame, but the easiest way to relieve that guilt and shame is by numbing it with the exact thing that is making him feel guilt and shame.

It’s a horrible place to be, on both sides of the fence. Just take care of yourself and your daughter. You can love and support him, but you don’t have to put up with his sh*t.

Good luck to you. I’m happy to answer any questions if you have any.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I highly recommend Babette Wise, a therapist who specializes in addiction and does both individual and group therapy for alcoholics and spouses of alcoholics. She helped me tremendously when I was going through the same thing you are. Things turned around once DH started seeing her. He wanted to quit through willpower and didn’t think he needed a program. We made a deal that he could try it his way but if he relapsed, he had to go straight to rehab. Sure enough, he relapsed, went to inpatient rehab, then did 90 in 90 (90 AA meetings in 90 days) and has been sober for 11 years. He still does AA (is at a meeting now) and has found a great group of men who have become not only a support network, but friends. It was a long and scary road to get here though. You can’t make him get help, but you can get help for yourself. It’s great that you’re going to Al-Anon. I urge you to also see a counselor who specializes in addiction whether your husband will go with you or not.

Yes I've heard of 90 in 90. I'm not OP. DH has to be willing to try it. Get a sponsor. I don't know anyone who stayed sober without AA.

[Anonymous]

Call CPS and get it on record that he drank six shots of tequila while your daughter was in his care. Get it on record that he takes alcohol to work. Get records, get records, get records. Times/dates/situations. Log it.

When you eventually divorce, you need this info so that you get full custody and he gets visitation. Don’t fool yourself. He’ll drive drunk with her, he’ll be unable to care for her, he will endanger her and ruin her life.

[Anonymous]

If you are comfortable with it, I do think you could do the research for your husband and find an AA meeting and give him a list of treatment options. Once you give him that information, and he still does nothing, then you know he is not ready/able to move forward, but you can with you life.

Do not feel that you have to stay with him otherwise things will get worse. He is an adult with an addiction, and he is the only one who can address that. The need to have six shots of hard alcohol on a weeknight when he is the sole caregiver shows that something has to change for the safety of your child. My brother-in-law only got help when he was arrested for drunk driving with my nephew in the backseat. That's not to scare you, but some alcoholics have to hit rock bottom before getting better. You don't want to be there for that.

[Anonymous]

90 in 90 is great if you’re on board with wanting to recover. It also runs the risk of becoming a meeting maker, which is someone who just goes to the meetings as a cursory exercise.

To be effective, you have to be on board to:
Attend meetings/ keep coming back
Find a home group
Find a sponsor
Work the steps

I used to really bristle at the term “dry drunk” but I’ve seen enough of them in the rooms and they really are just people who are meeting makers. They still live in the misery of their alcoholism, the difference is they just don’t drink any more and have and continue to do nothing to improve their thinking through therapy, counselling, or working the steps (which is one of the big reasons people hate AA).

There is a significant correlation between substance abuse and ACES, and those need to be worked through in order to recover, not just “be sober”.

[Anonymous]

Op, I am so sorry to hear this.

I think you have received some really good advice so far, but this really stood out:

One of the keys to all this is that early on I jettisoned my anger about him and accepted that I could never rely on him for anything - no babysitting, no parenting at all. That recognition has made life much easier for all of us. It’s definitely affected my career negatively and my financial situation (although he pays child support).

It doesn't sound like you're really ready to separate or divorce, but I think the above advice will put you in a good position if you decide to do that eventually. I would consult with a divorce lawyer now and find out what you can do to protect yourself financially. Because if your husband is drinking on the job/during the day, it's likely he's not going to be employed at some point.

I'll only say one other thing - and that is don't let him put your supposed "lack of support" on you as the reason he isn't getting help. I would confront him on that every time.

Best of luck.