Are single people in their thirties really the “undesirables”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One poster here seems really freaked out by brunches.

I was just thinking that! What is it about brunches that triggers that poster so bad?

Show us on the doll where the smoked salmon hurt you...

Remain mindful of all the amazing smoked salmon, bellinis, and eggs benedicts you enjoyed on the way to your fertility doctor in your 30s. Life of leisure and hookup culture in your 20s was so worth it!

That’s right! You should forego traveling, kissing other people, sleeping in and generally advancing your career so you can be married at 22, prego while your friends are out doing fun stuff and generally sitting home in the suburbs in your 20’s. You need to live like it’s 1950 to be a real person.

Do you...know that you can travel, sleep in, advance your career, and have fun while you're married? Is that the issue here? You can even have fun with kids. Really. And you don't have to move to the suburbs, ever, if you don't want to. The idea that getting married and having kids before you're middle-aged is "living like it's 1950" is a very odd perspective.

Tell it to the men. You could be a pretty, educated (non religious, because this skews things) 23 year old and go out on 10 dates in DC or NYC with men under 30 and pretty much every one of them is going to run out the door like their hair is on fire and promptly lose your number the second you vocalize something like wanting to be married and having kids in the next few years. I don't understand why the onus is always put on women when it is VERY clear in the 20-something dating world that most high quality men have zero desire to settle down before 30 or close to it.

Disagree with your last sentence. Plenty of guys hate dating and would like to meet the right person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm 37, male, and single. Admittedly, dating apps (Bumble, Tinder, etc.) have confirmed I'm pretty undesirable. I'm tall and make low six-figures but I think my face isn't very attractive (weak jaw, naturally chubby cheeks even though I'm pretty skinny). I'm not balding even slight and stay in good shape, play sports, and (before covid) hit the gym 6x a week. I had trouble getting my career going when I got out of grad school, which I think put me about 5 years behind financially. It is what it is. I have hobbies and interests so life is still tolerable, but I don't delude myself into thinking I'm a desirable person. I gave up caring about that several years ago.

Advice from another guy:. Buddy, get off of dating websites. Nothing else in the history of humanity has ever been invented that skews to the advantage of women like Bumble or Tinder. Go to where the odds are better and looks aren't as high a percentage of the equation, though you probably look fine and are harder on yourself than potential dates are.

So where should you look once COVID settles down?
- places of worship
- book clubs
- cultural events
- volunteering
- Sierra Club

You can do it! I have faith in you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think marrying too early is a bad idea...you don't really know yourself in your 20s. Marrying in your 30s (women) and 30s early 40s (men) in DC area or any metropolitan area is fine. I didn't get married until 39...hubs is a few years older.

A norm around getting married that late is one with fewer kids, a lot more infertility/birth defects, and kids barely meeting their grandparents. Both extended adolescence and this idea that you should have yourself entirely figured out before getting married, as opposed to continuing to do that work within your marriage, are choices that cultures make. And not good ones. If you don't have yourself together enough to make a commitment until you're much older than is optimal for having kids -- well, that happens sometimes, but it's something to aspire to.

You seem obsessed with kids. Many of us have a life and don’t define ourselves by our children or motherhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got fell in love and got married at 25 and I grew up in this area, and we both have good careers.

What I've seen are some who aren't married by their 30s fall into traps of staying in long relationships (including live in) and the man never proposes. Not smart to do "live in" relationships, from what I've seen, if you want marriage and kids in your future as a woman.

And/or, they have a "checklist" that is really transparent and off putting to men (trying to get a high earner, etc).

You're confusing correlation and causation. The women you see in these sad arrangements with immature low-status men are in the (as OP put it) "undesirable" bucket. They take what they can get.

I’m so sorry that only one desperate guy found you pretty and interesting, even when you were young, and that no one else ever did, and that the result of years of that bitterness means a fixation on IVF and mixed drinks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think marrying too early is a bad idea...you don't really know yourself in your 20s. Marrying in your 30s (women) and 30s early 40s (men) in DC area or any metropolitan area is fine. I didn't get married until 39...hubs is a few years older.

A norm around getting married that late is one with fewer kids, a lot more infertility/birth defects, and kids barely meeting their grandparents. Both extended adolescence and this idea that you should have yourself entirely figured out before getting married, as opposed to continuing to do that work within your marriage, are choices that cultures make. And not good ones. If you don't have yourself together enough to make a commitment until you're much older than is optimal for having kids -- well, that happens sometimes, but it's something to aspire to.

You seem obsessed with kids. Many of us have a life and don’t define ourselves by our children or motherhood.

That's such a narcissistic frame to see this. "How you define yourself"? Think about what kind of culture you want to live in and work toward it. If that culture is one where people like you don't reproduce because it's so important that you spend your 20s and 30s figuring out who you are, then have at it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think marrying too early is a bad idea...you don't really know yourself in your 20s. Marrying in your 30s (women) and 30s early 40s (men) in DC area or any metropolitan area is fine. I didn't get married until 39...hubs is a few years older.

A norm around getting married that late is one with fewer kids, a lot more infertility/birth defects, and kids barely meeting their grandparents. Both extended adolescence and this idea that you should have yourself entirely figured out before getting married, as opposed to continuing to do that work within your marriage, are choices that cultures make. And not good ones. If you don't have yourself together enough to make a commitment until you're much older than is optimal for having kids -- well, that happens sometimes, but it's something to aspire to.

You seem obsessed with kids. Many of us have a life and don’t define ourselves by our children or motherhood.

That's such a narcissistic frame to see this. "How you define yourself"? Think about what kind of culture you want to live in and work toward it. If that culture is one where people like you don't reproduce because it's so important that you spend your 20s and 30s figuring out who you are, then have at it.

I mean your entire post had the word “kids” multiple times. I’m just trying to explain to you that there are many women who value other things and experiences. Some of us also value children, but we wouldn’t suggest someone gets married young because of kids.

Yes, I do support a culture where women have kids at an older age. There’s a reason most wealthy, educated women have kids at an older age than poor, uneducated ones. What’s the average age of a FTM in Silicon Valley versus one in small town, Arkansas? I believe educated and a career are the ticket to freedom and equality for women. Children get in the way of this so I absolutely suggest women wait until they are older to have kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think marrying too early is a bad idea...you don't really know yourself in your 20s. Marrying in your 30s (women) and 30s early 40s (men) in DC area or any metropolitan area is fine. I didn't get married until 39...hubs is a few years older.

A norm around getting married that late is one with fewer kids, a lot more infertility/birth defects, and kids barely meeting their grandparents. Both extended adolescence and this idea that you should have yourself entirely figured out before getting married, as opposed to continuing to do that work within your marriage, are choices that cultures make. And not good ones. If you don't have yourself together enough to make a commitment until you're much older than is optimal for having kids -- well, that happens sometimes, but it's something to aspire to.

You seem obsessed with kids. Many of us have a life and don’t define ourselves by our children or motherhood.

That's such a narcissistic frame to see this. "How you define yourself"? Think about what kind of culture you want to live in and work toward it. If that culture is one where people like you don't reproduce because it's so important that you spend your 20s and 30s figuring out who you are, then have at it.

It’s not about figuring out who you are. It’s about focusing on your career, setting yourself up for decades of higher earnings and retirement savings, traveling, having fun with friends, living on your own, managing your own finances and home repairs on your own, living in the location YOU want to live and not your spouse or what’s best for kids, dating plenty of people, etc.

Once you have kids, life is mostly the same. It’s family time, which can be amazing. But you never get your 20s back. Why skip a decade of your life??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One poster here seems really freaked out by brunches.

I was just thinking that! What is it about brunches that triggers that poster so bad?

Show us on the doll where the smoked salmon hurt you...

Remain mindful of all the amazing smoked salmon, bellinis, and eggs benedicts you enjoyed on the way to your fertility doctor in your 30s. Life of leisure and hookup culture in your 20s was so worth it!

That’s right! You should forego traveling, kissing other people, sleeping in and generally advancing your career so you can be married at 22, prego while your friends are out doing fun stuff and generally sitting home in the suburbs in your 20’s. You need to live like it’s 1950 to be a real person.

Do you...know that you can travel, sleep in, advance your career, and have fun while you're married? Is that the issue here? You can even have fun with kids. Really. And you don't have to move to the suburbs, ever, if you don't want to. The idea that getting married and having kids before you're middle-aged is "living like it's 1950" is a very odd perspective.

Tell it to the men. You could be a pretty, educated (non religious, because this skews things) 23 year old and go out on 10 dates in DC or NYC with men under 30 and pretty much every one of them is going to run out the door like their hair is on fire and promptly lose your number the second you vocalize something like wanting to be married and having kids in the next few years. I don't understand why the onus is always put on women when it is VERY clear in the 20-something dating world that most high quality men have zero desire to settle down before 30 or close to it.

Disagree with your last sentence. Plenty of guys hate dating and would like to meet the right person.

Not really, not the good looking smart ones in urban areas building their careers. They're looking to climb Kilamanjaro at 26 with their friends not become a dad. The guys who are early 20s and "hate dating" and are looking to settle down are not the cream of the crop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One poster here seems really freaked out by brunches.

I was just thinking that! What is it about brunches that triggers that poster so bad?

Show us on the doll where the smoked salmon hurt you...

Remain mindful of all the amazing smoked salmon, bellinis, and eggs benedicts you enjoyed on the way to your fertility doctor in your 30s. Life of leisure and hookup culture in your 20s was so worth it!

That’s right! You should forego traveling, kissing other people, sleeping in and generally advancing your career so you can be married at 22, prego while your friends are out doing fun stuff and generally sitting home in the suburbs in your 20’s. You need to live like it’s 1950 to be a real person.

Do you...know that you can travel, sleep in, advance your career, and have fun while you're married? Is that the issue here? You can even have fun with kids. Really. And you don't have to move to the suburbs, ever, if you don't want to. The idea that getting married and having kids before you're middle-aged is "living like it's 1950" is a very odd perspective.

Tell it to the men. You could be a pretty, educated (non religious, because this skews things) 23 year old and go out on 10 dates in DC or NYC with men under 30 and pretty much every one of them is going to run out the door like their hair is on fire and promptly lose your number the second you vocalize something like wanting to be married and having kids in the next few years. I don't understand why the onus is always put on women when it is VERY clear in the 20-something dating world that most high quality men have zero desire to settle down before 30 or close to it.

Disagree with your last sentence. Plenty of guys hate dating and would like to meet the right person.

Not really, not the good looking smart ones in urban areas building their careers. They're looking to climb Kilamanjaro at 26 with their friends not become a dad. The guys who are early 20s and "hate dating" and are looking to settle down are not the cream of the crop.

Right. It's one thing to be in your 20s and meet a great woman and BAM this is it, she is it, and you lock it down. It's another to be in your 20s looking to be married as quickly as possible because dating is a drag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One poster here seems really freaked out by brunches.

I was just thinking that! What is it about brunches that triggers that poster so bad?

Show us on the doll where the smoked salmon hurt you...

Remain mindful of all the amazing smoked salmon, bellinis, and eggs benedicts you enjoyed on the way to your fertility doctor in your 30s. Life of leisure and hookup culture in your 20s was so worth it!

That’s right! You should forego traveling, kissing other people, sleeping in and generally advancing your career so you can be married at 22, prego while your friends are out doing fun stuff and generally sitting home in the suburbs in your 20’s. You need to live like it’s 1950 to be a real person.

Do you...know that you can travel, sleep in, advance your career, and have fun while you're married? Is that the issue here? You can even have fun with kids. Really. And you don't have to move to the suburbs, ever, if you don't want to. The idea that getting married and having kids before you're middle-aged is "living like it's 1950" is a very odd perspective.

Tell it to the men. You could be a pretty, educated (non religious, because this skews things) 23 year old and go out on 10 dates in DC or NYC with men under 30 and pretty much every one of them is going to run out the door like their hair is on fire and promptly lose your number the second you vocalize something like wanting to be married and having kids in the next few years. I don't understand why the onus is always put on women when it is VERY clear in the 20-something dating world that most high quality men have zero desire to settle down before 30 or close to it.

Disagree with your last sentence. Plenty of guys hate dating and would like to meet the right person.

Not really, not the good looking smart ones in urban areas building their careers. They're looking to climb Kilamanjaro at 26 with their friends not become a dad. The guys who are early 20s and "hate dating" and are looking to settle down are not the cream of the crop.

Let me guess you are over 30 and single?

No, I'm over 30 and haven't been single since 28.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only singles I know in their late thirties do have some issues.

Agreed. Their issues are self-sufficiency and lack of codependency, with a touch of a bit too much disposable income that eliminates the economic necessity of marrying that plagued every generation before ours. This makes them very unattractive to potential mates who want a live-in maid or doormat. Very few of the older singles I know ever wanted children, so they never felt the need to jump into a marriage to beat the biological clock. Even in this day and age, that's a concept a lot of people can't wrap their minds around. Just look at 90% of the responses in this thread that are obsessed with kids.

[Anonymous]

By late 30s/early 40s, a lack of any long term relationship is a big red flag. I know a few people like this and there is definitely something wrong with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:By late 30s/early 40s, a lack of any long term relationship is a big red flag. I know a few people like this and there is definitely something wrong with them.

Such as?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Meh, I’m 30... almost 31, and not married or currently in a serious relationship. I’m finishing up my PhD in a biomedical science program (hopefully I’m out in 2 years), and I was always more focused on school and securing a good career over dating. Definitely don’t do hookups or even care about sex. I’m looking for a certain type of guy who wants a big family, to include fostering and adopting. I’m particularly interested in working with the severely neglected teen demographic, which requires full commitment. It’s a huge ask, but it’s what I want to do with my life.

With how prevalent online dating has become within the last decade or so, there’s always so many “options,” for everyone to choose from (there’s no way I’m meeting someone in my program’s setting, or elsewhere). Since I know exactly what I want, it’s just taking me time to find someone compatible.

I’m super independent, and will be fostering solo to start maybe next year. I’m completely fine with having kids, fostering, and adopting on my own. But a partner would be nice to complete the family.

Guess we’ll see what my life brings about, lol.

I'm a little older than you and I have a similar perspective, though I am in a relationship and plan to have biological kids in the next year or two.

I pursued my career and my independence in my 20s knowing that I may not have children (or at least, biological kids). I was (am) ok with that. I think if you want biological children you have to prioritize relationships at a point, but if not, age is much less important.

[Anonymous]

Nobody can afford kids til their 30s. Most people are held down by student loan debt.