What do you do when none of the men you met want a "serious relationship"?

[Anonymous]

Marriage is absolutely wonderful if you are compatible and work well as a team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I guess I just don't really understand young people anymore! LOL that sounds so old. But what I mean is, if you meet someone you're wildly attracted to, the sex is great, you get along so well with them and all of their friends, they have a good job and education, you're hanging out every night anyway, why wouldn't you want to try a "serious" exclusive arrangement?

This idea that you shouldn't settle down till your late thirties is just odd to me. It's so arbitrary.

You know my twenty seven year old son was one of those guys who just didn't want a serious relationship, in fact, he just stopped dating and put all his time and energy into his personal friendships (male and female) and his professional life. I didn't understand because he is successful and attractive, made no sense to me. Then a few months ago he showed up for a dinner with the family and brought a date, it just happened. He met her during a business trip and he couldn't get her out of his head (at least that's what he told me). Thankfully she is lovely and seems to be very good to him, so we are thrilled. But I will say this about your niece, she has to stop hooking up if she wants a serious relationship. I hear my son and his friends banter about this when they are at our house, none of them want a girl who is loose and sleeps around. Seriously, I asked them about this after listening to some relationship show on NPR one morning and I found them very entertaining and insightful. They said they had their whoring around days when they were in college and aren't interested in that anymore. They find it childish and have distanced themselves from the friends they knew who sought that out weekend after weekend. If she is as lovely as you describe, she has to regroup and quite simply, play hard to get.

FWIW, women don't want to form serious relationships with guys who are still sowing their wild oats, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has happened to make men this way?

Feminism made marriage a shit deal for men, and allowed men to get sex without it. Men are just playing by the rules women set.

Life for women before feminism was terrible and no bed of roses. Feminism is good. It however also requires women to become empowered, independent and mature. The list above is great for men and women. Become worthy of good things. Remove the abundance/lack of sex from the reasons you want to get married and things become clearer. Develop as a human being so that when you marry and have children, you have a better chance to build something worthwhile in your professional and personal life.

- PP who made the list above.

Was
Feminism always exaggerated, and continues to exaggerate, how "terrible" life was for women before feminism. (Life in past decades was terrible for men, too, by the way. My grandfather had to leave school at 12 and go to work. Before that the men in my family were all farm laborers and miners. Did they have great options and choices in life? Nope. They had daily back-breaking labor. But at least their white privilege was some consolation, right?) Whatever else feminism has done, it has not made women happy. But if you still think it's "good", whatever.

Even if one agrees that life before feminism was terrible, that is irrelevant. Feminism has made marriage a shit deal for men. If women want to get married... and apparently they do... perhaps it is time to re-evaluate the parts of feminism that make marriage unattractive to men.

Look, I'll cop to being miserable as a modern woman (person). But you know what would be MORE miserable? Being forced to get married at 22, no birth control, 6 kids, can't work, can't have title to my own home, DH can beat & rape me ... no thanks!

btw, the women who get married and stay married most frequently are the highly educated, liberal, most likely to be feminist women. Wonder why that is?

Where are you getting this stat? Most of the still married women I know are not liberal. It's not related in my mind.

Also just like now there are good and bad men, who still rape etc. there were good men. Not all were bad and beat their wives.

Marriage rates are higher among the college educated, and divorce rates are lower. The college educated tend to be more liberal. These are basic demographic facts, and if you dont know them, you shouldn't be opining on the generational impacts of feminism.

Where are you getting these facts? Seriously. I’m college educated myself with a graduate degree. I have read that the south has higher divorce rates but I believe that has to do with early marriages, not because it’s a conservative liberal thing. I don’t see the attribute. Also if you take conservatives like Mormons, they don’t fit this narrative. They have common goals so the divorce rate is lower. More education does not mean still married. It does mean choosing better which ‘likely’ to stay married but the divorce rate is still the same. Also happier cannot be proven with a stat.

Again more to my point feminism, the part of empowering women in terms of independence is a great thing. Even taking a conservative view women live longer and they should know how to support themselves IF need be. I have reaped the benefits myself. But what is the end game of feminism? To be like men? Do I want a husband or do I just want to be the husband? Have sex like a man, work like the man, AND still have to bear kids? Be CEO and then wake up at night with the baby? Ugh what misery. OP’s SIL thinks she can be like a man but then complain because she wants a storybook marriage. This is modern feminism gone wrong. Why marry right? Men are useless is what feminism thinks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has happened to make men this way?

Feminism made marriage a shit deal for men, and allowed men to get sex without it. Men are just playing by the rules women set.

Life for women before feminism was terrible and no bed of roses. Feminism is good. It however also requires women to become empowered, independent and mature. The list above is great for men and women. Become worthy of good things. Remove the abundance/lack of sex from the reasons you want to get married and things become clearer. Develop as a human being so that when you marry and have children, you have a better chance to build something worthwhile in your professional and personal life.

- PP who made the list above.

Feminism always exaggerated, and continues to exaggerate, how "terrible" life was for women before feminism. (Life in past decades was terrible for men, too, by the way. My grandfather had to leave school at 12 and go to work. Before that the men in my family were all farm laborers and miners. Did they have great options and choices in life? Nope. They had daily back-breaking labor. But at least their white privilege was some consolation, right?) Whatever else feminism has done, it has not made women happy. But if you still think it's "good", whatever.

Even if one agrees that life before feminism was terrible, that is irrelevant. Feminism has made marriage a shit deal for men. If women want to get married... and apparently they do... perhaps it is time to re-evaluate the parts of feminism that make marriage unattractive to men.

Look, I'll cop to being miserable as a modern woman (person). But you know what would be MORE miserable? Being forced to get married at 22, no birth control, 6 kids, can't work, can't have title to my own home, DH can beat & rape me ... no thanks!

You're totally deluded if you think that describes the average woman before 1960. You should ask some actual women who reached adulthood before 1960, they'd be happy to tell you about it.

[Anonymous]

Man here, who lived in big city hook up culture through my early 30s. Here's my perspective.

First, men on average mature later. I mean, I didn't have marriage remotely on my mind in my mid and late 20s. No one in my circle of friends did either.

Second, men will have sex with most women but will only emotionally connect with a few. So the girl may be sleeping with men out of her league who are happy to have her for a few nights but nothing more.

My wife and I slept together fairly early but she also had the exclusivity talk a few months in. I made a conscious choice that she was worth giving up chasing skirt and I didn't want to lose her.

And I know many amazing women who are still single never married or kids late 30s. Their mistake was wasting time in dead end relationships in their 20s when there were a lot of available men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What has happened to make men this way?

Feminism made marriage a shit deal for men, and allowed men to get sex without it. Men are just playing by the rules women set.

Life for women before feminism was terrible and no bed of roses. Feminism is good. It however also requires women to become empowered, independent and mature. The list above is great for men and women. Become worthy of good things. Remove the abundance/lack of sex from the reasons you want to get married and things become clearer. Develop as a human being so that when you marry and have children, you have a better chance to build something worthwhile in your professional and personal life.

- PP who made the list above.

Was
Feminism always exaggerated, and continues to exaggerate, how "terrible" life was for women before feminism. (Life in past decades was terrible for men, too, by the way. My grandfather had to leave school at 12 and go to work. Before that the men in my family were all farm laborers and miners. Did they have great options and choices in life? Nope. They had daily back-breaking labor. But at least their white privilege was some consolation, right?) Whatever else feminism has done, it has not made women happy. But if you still think it's "good", whatever.

Even if one agrees that life before feminism was terrible, that is irrelevant. Feminism has made marriage a shit deal for men. If women want to get married... and apparently they do... perhaps it is time to re-evaluate the parts of feminism that make marriage unattractive to men.

Look, I'll cop to being miserable as a modern woman (person). But you know what would be MORE miserable? Being forced to get married at 22, no birth control, 6 kids, can't work, can't have title to my own home, DH can beat & rape me ... no thanks!

btw, the women who get married and stay married most frequently are the highly educated, liberal, most likely to be feminist women. Wonder why that is?

Where are you getting this stat? Most of the still married women I know are not liberal. It's not related in my mind.

Also just like now there are good and bad men, who still rape etc. there were good men. Not all were bad and beat their wives.

Marriage rates are higher among the college educated, and divorce rates are lower. The college educated tend to be more liberal. These are basic demographic facts, and if you dont know them, you shouldn't be opining on the generational impacts of feminism.

Where are you getting these facts? Seriously. I’m college educated myself with a graduate degree. I have read that the south has higher divorce rates but I believe that has to do with early marriages, not because it’s a conservative liberal thing. I don’t see the attribute. Also if you take conservatives like Mormons, they don’t fit this narrative. They have common goals so the divorce rate is lower. More education does not mean still married. It does mean choosing better which ‘likely’ to stay married but the divorce rate is still the same. Also happier cannot be proven with a stat.

Again more to my point feminism, the part of empowering women in terms of independence is a great thing. Even taking a conservative view women live longer and they should know how to support themselves IF need be. I have reaped the benefits myself. But what is the end game of feminism? To be like men? Do I want a husband or do I just want to be the husband? Have sex like a man, work like the man, AND still have to bear kids? Be CEO and then wake up at night with the baby? Ugh what misery. OP’s SIL thinks she can be like a man but then complain because she wants a storybook marriage. This is modern feminism gone wrong. Why marry right? Men are useless is what feminism thinks.

Ummm, you marry an equal partner so you (the woman) are not in charge of all of the household and kids.

Or, you skip all that and enjoy the single life.

[Anonymous]

I don't think we can blame all this on feminism.

It's just changing times. Social media has exploded in recent years. People now have tinder and all sorts of other apps to meet up and have sex.

That was never available in the old days, men had to go to a club, buy a woman a drink and hopefully she'd sleep with him at the end of the night.

Now guys don't have to buy any drinks, the girls will sleep with them regardless. For this reason yes guys are less interested in settling down in their 20's. Why would they want to when so much is on offer.

I'm not saying that females shouldn't have as much sexual freedom as the men but that does come with a price.

I have also seen an increase in women 30-35 who are great by all accounts and can't find a date, well relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Man here, who lived in big city hook up culture through my early 30s. Here's my perspective.

First, men on average mature later. I mean, I didn't have marriage remotely on my mind in my mid and late 20s. No one in my circle of friends did either.

Second, men will have sex with most women but will only emotionally connect with a few. So the girl may be sleeping with men out of her league who are happy to have her for a few nights but nothing more.

My wife and I slept together fairly early but she also had the exclusivity talk a few months in. I made a conscious choice that she was worth giving up chasing skirt and I didn't want to lose her.

And I know many amazing women who are still single never married or kids late 30s. Their mistake was wasting time in dead end relationships in their 20s when there were a lot of available men.

If she hadn't initiated the talk when she did, would you have done it? And when?

[Anonymous]

I have also seen an increase in women 30-35 who are great by all accounts and can't find a date, well relationship.

The eternally single women I know try very hard to stay single, so whether they’re great women or not is irrelevant. The guy has to be tall, has to have a lot of money, has to have a certain type of job. Basically he has to be a movie character, and even has to be ok with no sex before marriage or at least during many months of dating. There are lots of items on the checklist, and no one who is actually interested makes the cut.

Who cares if the women are great? They can’t be bothered to show up, at least for us not-tall accountants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah quite a few guys at work now say that they can hook up with a different girl each night of the week. So they aren't that interested in settling down.

A few of the really good looking girls are having a harder time as the guys just want to have sex with them, they seem to find the ones who play heaps of games with them.

The average looking girls seem to settle down mid-late 20's and seem to be in more secure relationships that appear really healthy.

These guys are the extreme minority. Even with sites like tinder, the average man has to work VERY hard for sex.

Yes the [b]average guys are settling down just fine with the average girls, we have plenty at work in their 20's getting married and having families. I'm not saying they are ugly but average, pretty, normal looking.

The better looking guys are having a feast and don't appear to have any problem hooking up. We get to see the profiles of all the girls they gloat about scoring. It does make you wonder if some women are aiming for the wrong men. There are some really great guys out there but the good looking girls ignore them.

For the better looking girls in our office one is living with a guy who won't commit, won't marry her or have kids, she is early 30's. The other did get married and he cheated on her two years into the marriage they are now divorced, late 20's. The other two are early 30's and are endlessly dating with no commitment at all. They seem to go for the good looking bad guys, so maybe this is what is happening with OP's friend or sister.

There are probably a couple of good looking couples that are settled down and married but by far the average girls are settling down much sooner and with much more ease from what I can see. I don't know if it's that a good looking guy does get more attention so if that is what you are going to go for it's going to be much harder to find one willing to settle down younger because lets face it, the women are throwing themselves at them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I have also seen an increase in women 30-35 who are great by all accounts and can't find a date, well relationship.

The eternally single women I know try very hard to stay single, so whether they’re great women or not is irrelevant. The guy has to be tall, has to have a lot of money, has to have a certain type of job. Basically he has to be a movie character, and even has to be ok with no sex before marriage or at least during many months of dating. There are lots of items on the checklist, and no one who is actually interested makes the cut.

Who cares if the women are great? They can’t be bothered to show up, at least for us not-tall accountants.

You can't help who you're attracted to. Women are socialized to be attracted to men who are taller than them. Sorry you're short but taking it out on women with these kinds of bitter comments ^ is not a good look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I have also seen an increase in women 30-35 who are great by all accounts and can't find a date, well relationship.

The eternally single women I know try very hard to stay single, so whether they’re great women or not is irrelevant. The guy has to be tall, has to have a lot of money, has to have a certain type of job. Basically he has to be a movie character, and even has to be ok with no sex before marriage or at least during many months of dating. There are lots of items on the checklist, and no one who is actually interested makes the cut.

Who cares if the women are great? They can’t be bothered to show up, at least for us not-tall accountants.

Yes I do agree with this. The more attractive they are the longer the list for what they want. They are great but I totally agree they aren't willing to look at the average male and seem to be missing out.

These girls should have had the pick of the crop and at this stage it looks like they have been left behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah quite a few guys at work now say that they can hook up with a different girl each night of the week. So they aren't that interested in settling down.

A few of the really good looking girls are having a harder time as the guys just want to have sex with them, they seem to find the ones who play heaps of games with them.

The average looking girls seem to settle down mid-late 20's and seem to be in more secure relationships that appear really healthy.

These guys are the extreme minority. Even with sites like tinder, the average man has to work VERY hard for sex.

Yes the [b]average guys are settling down just fine with the average girls, we have plenty at work in their 20's getting married and having families. I'm not saying they are ugly but average, pretty, normal looking.

The better looking guys are having a feast and don't appear to have any problem hooking up. We get to see the profiles of all the girls they gloat about scoring. It does make you wonder if some women are aiming for the wrong men. There are some really great guys out there but the good looking girls ignore them.

For the better looking girls in our office one is living with a guy who won't commit, won't marry her or have kids, she is early 30's. The other did get married and he cheated on her two years into the marriage they are now divorced, late 20's. The other two are early 30's and are endlessly dating with no commitment at all. They seem to go for the good looking bad guys, so maybe this is what is happening with OP's friend or sister.

There are probably a couple of good looking couples that are settled down and married but by far the average girls are settling down much sooner and with much more ease from what I can see. I don't know if it's that a good looking guy does get more attention so if that is what you are going to go for it's going to be much harder to find one willing to settle down younger because lets face it, the women are throwing themselves at them.

They seem to be looking for the elusive tall, dark and handsome alpha man who is willing to allow his woman to lead him around by the nose and plan his day to day activities without objection.

[Anonymous]

09.55 here: Thinking about it a couple of the average guys at work and acquaintances are getting somewhere on tinder/dating apps as well, however they won't settle down either.

When I think about it, they have all worked hard and own property and I think they are worried about having that property taken from them. Which is fair enough, it's a real threat.

One is dating a single mom and he won't let her get any where near committing on any level. They have been casually dating for two years. He won't live with her at all. They are mid 30's.

I guess men need to protect themselves a little more these days, they can work hard in their 20's and have half taken from them in their 30's. I think there are a few different issues in dating today.

[Anonymous]

I’m back in the dating scene after being married. Am early thirties. Even though it’s only been about a decade since I was on the scene, my sense is that everything has changed. The concept of commitment to most people - men and women - seems to be a scary, huge step. Everything is fluid, mutable, impermanent. I posit that apps like Tinder contribute to the notion that there’s always a better option “out there,” so people want perpetually to keep their options open.

For my part, I’m in a long-distance “situationship” with an old flame. We see each other every couple of months and hook up. No commitment. I see it as consistent sex with someone I trust and like, while I continue to date locally and try to find a good fit.

Strange times, these are.