Estrangement Doesn't Just Happen to "Bad" Moms—It Happened to Me Too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe the person who doesn’t go out of their way to air their side of a personal relationship publicly. There’s something wrong with a person who does that.

They do that out of the same heartache as a death.
Millennials need to understand how relationships work and how to communicate. Estrangement is epic in this generation and it is usually a daughter or son in law that draws a line in the sand. I've heard a ton of stories as to why someone thinks their MIL is toxic. They don't know what toxic means. Any comment is misconstrued, ever thought, and taken personally...and then the family is cut off.

This, only it's worse than death as the child is alive and choosing to put parents through this pain. A lot of them are going to have regrets. They are also setting examples for their own children that will come back to bite them. Forgive. Move on. We are all deeply flawed.

Sometimes it's either the son or daughter makes this choice, or the parents keep putting them through even worse pain.

And sometimes you are setting examples for your own children, but not ones that will come back to bite you. Instead, the example is how to make healthy choices that prevent the most suffering, pain, and ill-will.

Some people have giant, sucking black holes inside them, and they are made of insecurity, aggression, and a need to make the chaos they feel manifest externally as well. Misery love company. You stop pouring yourself into that hole when you realize it isn't really making anything better overall. They are still the same miserable, empty person they were, and now you are miserable (and almost empty), too.

[Anonymous]

If my adult son wanted to propose to someone in a Disneyland theme park (!) I would cut him off right then and there, and never look back.

[Anonymous]

Town and Country? I’d want to be estranged from a parent into that culture too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe the person who doesn’t go out of their way to air their side of a personal relationship publicly. There’s something wrong with a person who does that.

They do that out of the same heartache as a death.
Millennials need to understand how relationships work and how to communicate. Estrangement is epic in this generation and it is usually a daughter or son in law that draws a line in the sand. I've heard a ton of stories as to why someone thinks their MIL is toxic. They don't know what toxic means. Any comment is misconstrued, ever thought, and taken personally...and then the family is cut off.

This, only it's worse than death as the child is alive and choosing to put parents through this pain. A lot of them are going to have regrets. They are also setting examples for their own children that will come back to bite them. Forgive. Move on. We are all deeply flawed.

You see, “we are all deeply flawed” is not a get out of jail card. We are not talking about one isolated occasion back in the 2nd grade. It’s years of systematic emotional mistreatment and toxicity that continues to affect the lives of adult children and their families. Unless the perpetrator realizes they’ve done wrong and changes their behavior, there is no way forward.

+1 I'm in my 50s, my father has been dead for 25 years and I have absolutely no regrets about cutting him off. I only wish he were out of my life sooner than he was. My kids are now young adults and they know the whole story. I have no fear of them cutting me off because I show them respect and love. My father reaped what he sowed as am I. I'm very happy with my choice. You do you, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a PP on this site that recommends "cut them off" for any family conflict. Whoever it is needs mental help.

Epidemic, in my opinion.

As someone who absolutely SHOULD cut off their family but can't due to a lifelong guilt training exercise I really cannot express how much I loathe people like you both.

Then, for Christ's sake get some serious help. It seems that you have so much anger generally that you cannot help but view everything as toxic. You really are becoming enormously transparent here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe the person who doesn’t go out of their way to air their side of a personal relationship publicly. There’s something wrong with a person who does that.

They do that out of the same heartache as a death.
Millennials need to understand how relationships work and how to communicate. Estrangement is epic in this generation and it is usually a daughter or son in law that draws a line in the sand. I've heard a ton of stories as to why someone thinks their MIL is toxic. They don't know what toxic means. Any comment is misconstrued, ever thought, and taken personally...and then the family is cut off.

I’d argue that people are finally starting to demand to be treated better. Being a MIL doesn’t give you a license to say horrible comments. In previous generations women were expected to just take it. Sorry but no one is treating me badly. People make mistakes, but continue to insult me and cause trouble and yes, you will be cut off.

Or maybe someone is the type of person who needs so much validation that they read slights into everything. That is what I see. I know someone who went to a craft store with her DIL. Mil carried the baby, and saw a friend. The friend said to the MIL, who knew there was a new grandchild, " Is that the new baby?" Mil said " Yes! It's our new addition!"
DIL made her apologize later that night , with the husband/son in tow to watch, for the word "our." " It's not YOUR baby!" She was angry, and crying, that Mom used the word "our." SIL, husband's sister suggested that DIL might be overtired. The entire family has been cut off . It's been years. No contact. There are more stories like this. Don't ever assume there is always the "right" one and inlaws or parents are always monsters.

I'd bet a million dollars that the MIL had been acting like its equally/partially her baby up to that point, and it was that behavior and not the particular words that day that caused the estrangement. Like the MIL complaining that she doesn't get to see "our new baby" enough, for example. The fact is that it's not her baby at ALL unless the parents of the baby want that to be the case.

+1. This is just one example of the MIL overstepping boundaries to steal the spotlight. How many others are there? It makes no sense that the entire family was cut off for one not-huge issue. This story that they don't understand why they're cut off but they're blaming the DIL is the hallmark of a dysfunctional family. They just don't want to admit why.

Postpartum is a very emotional time and it's for the parents, especially the mother, to bond with the baby. Everyone else is supposed to support the couple by doing errands, cooking, cleaning, etc. The baby is the mother's turf. The MIL should have been more careful not to overstep. It's also unbelievable that there wasn't more to the story.

+2 And the SIL's comment about being 'overtired'? Yeah, why not just tell her to 'calm down'? That's always good at descalating things. I have to wonder, though, where is the DH in all this? Are his fingers broken and he can't call/text?

This story to me seems to reflect a lack of respect and sanity in both sides. Perhaps MIL and DIL are both drama queens- people always marry someone who reminds them of a parent.

Ok, no. Mom wasn't doing or saying anything that was leading up. The screaming fight came entirely out of the semantics of the answer in the craft store- which had no agenda. But, do you see how quick PP here is talking about the spotlight? There it is.

You seem awful adamant about what happened given that you’re supposedly a bystander who didn’t personally witness it.

[Anonymous]

There is often a huge difference between someone’s public persona and their private persona. My mom is brilliant, charismatic, warm, and generous to outsiders. To me she was extremely abusive for years, but nobody would believe it. I haven’t talked to her in 5 years and honestly i feel better about that decision every day.

[Anonymous]

I will not regret cutting my mother off. The last thing she said to me was that it was my daughter's fault that she was molested by my mother's boyfriend because she came on to him. My daughter was 7 when he started. My mother went back to him when he got out of jail.

"Deeply flawed" doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of her narcissism. She was abusive to me all of my life except for the stretches where I refused to talk to her. I reopened communications 3 times in my life but I will not do it again.

She 'doesn't understand what she did wrong', and of course I am a sociopath for cutting her off, and my daughter is a sociopath for lying about her abuse.

If I had followed my instincts and never started talking to her again, my daughter might have been spared.

You sanctimonious 'children are just so mean to their parents and should forgive them' types can stuff it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a PP on this site that recommends "cut them off" for any family conflict. Whoever it is needs mental help.

Epidemic, in my opinion.

As someone who absolutely SHOULD cut off their family but can't due to a lifelong guilt training exercise I really cannot express how much I loathe people like you both.

Then, for Christ's sake get some serious help. It seems that you have so much anger generally that you cannot help but view everything as toxic. You really are becoming enormously transparent here.

I've made two posts on this thread. I don't view everything as toxic. I view my mother as toxic. And frankly everyone who has seen her true face and turned the other way while my brothers and I were abused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will not regret cutting my mother off. The last thing she said to me was that it was my daughter's fault that she was molested by my mother's boyfriend because she came on to him. My daughter was 7 when he started. My mother went back to him when he got out of jail.

"Deeply flawed" doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of her narcissism. She was abusive to me all of my life except for the stretches where I refused to talk to her. I reopened communications 3 times in my life but I will not do it again.

She 'doesn't understand what she did wrong', and of course I am a sociopath for cutting her off, and my daughter is a sociopath for lying about her abuse.

If I had followed my instincts and never started talking to her again, my daughter might have been spared.

You sanctimonious 'children are just so mean to their parents and should forgive them' types can stuff it.

I don't think that anyone would argue that the mother shouldn't be cut off in the scenario that happened to your daughter. I am sorry that happened to your family. But the case the author discusses is far different. Supportive parent, no signs of abuse, just a sudden estrangement that no one is willing to articulate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will not regret cutting my mother off. The last thing she said to me was that it was my daughter's fault that she was molested by my mother's boyfriend because she came on to him. My daughter was 7 when he started. My mother went back to him when he got out of jail.

"Deeply flawed" doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of her narcissism. She was abusive to me all of my life except for the stretches where I refused to talk to her. I reopened communications 3 times in my life but I will not do it again.

She 'doesn't understand what she did wrong', and of course I am a sociopath for cutting her off, and my daughter is a sociopath for lying about her abuse.

If I had followed my instincts and never started talking to her again, my daughter might have been spared.

You sanctimonious 'children are just so mean to their parents and should forgive them' types can stuff it.

I don't think that anyone would argue that the mother shouldn't be cut off in the scenario that happened to your daughter. I am sorry that happened to your family. But the case the author discusses is far different. Supportive parent, no signs of abuse, just a sudden estrangement that no one is willing to articulate.

I'm the pp that you think needs therapy that loathes you.

If I estranged my mom she would say exactly what that lady said. Because she is a combination of a liar and mentally ill in that she can remember events in an entirely different way than they happened.

She spent my childhood trying to turn me against my father (divorced). She has hated every single close friend and boyfriend I've ever had. She called my husband the devil once. She tries consistently to buy her way to my approval or, more insidiously, to purchase things for me she thinks I 'should' have to live the way she thinks is right. For example if I show up after work looking less than fashionable she will take me on a shopping trip to spice up my wardrobe. But it's really so she controls what I look like. I don't let that happen anymore but it was a frequent habit in my younger years when I didnt know how to say no and was less aware of the strings attached with any gift.

She criticizes me constantly. She never asks about me or my life and doesnt care about it. She has never been to a single place I've lived since I left her house. She is totally obsessed with herself and how people perceive her and literally nothing else matters. She would say we were so close and I left her behind. But if you asked her what my job was or what movie I'd seen last or what I'm proud of recently or who my closest friends are she would likely have no idea.

I allow her to maintain a perception of pur closeness because telling her she only asks about herself just results in an hour long conversation about that hurt her feelings.

I've spent my entire life attuned to her moods so I can dodge her if she's feeling vicious, comfort her if she's sad, listen to her if she's happy. It's all about her. Now I have children. I love them more than I fear her and I will protect them.

[Anonymous]

Pp who loathes ... SAME!! I hear you and I understand. My mom is the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will not regret cutting my mother off. The last thing she said to me was that it was my daughter's fault that she was molested by my mother's boyfriend because she came on to him. My daughter was 7 when he started. My mother went back to him when he got out of jail.

"Deeply flawed" doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of her narcissism. She was abusive to me all of my life except for the stretches where I refused to talk to her. I reopened communications 3 times in my life but I will not do it again.

She 'doesn't understand what she did wrong', and of course I am a sociopath for cutting her off, and my daughter is a sociopath for lying about her abuse.

If I had followed my instincts and never started talking to her again, my daughter might have been spared.

You sanctimonious 'children are just so mean to their parents and should forgive them' types can stuff it.

I don't think that anyone would argue that the mother shouldn't be cut off in the scenario that happened to your daughter. I am sorry that happened to your family. But the case the author discusses is far different. Supportive parent, no signs of abuse, just a sudden estrangement that no one is willing to articulate.

Oddly enough, that's exactly what my mother says. She did nothing wrong, she has always been supportive of me, I just stopped talking to her. AND took my daughter away. When my mother tells the story, she has always been a loving, giving person, and I am just ungrateful. I don't go around telling my daughter's story to people who know me because it isn't my story to tell. When she decides she's ready, I'll support her. Until then, I get to put up with all the people in my life who don't take 'my mother said something unforgivable, please stop asking me to talk to her' for an answer, because 'SHE'S YOUR MOM'. No, she's a narcissistic mess. My point is that you don't actually know what happened in that family, but you/others are defending the mother just because she is the mother. I'm just here to say that just because she's the mother, doesn't mean she isn't lying, so maybe back off of the 'but sheeeeee's diffffferent' malarkey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a PP on this site that recommends "cut them off" for any family conflict. Whoever it is needs mental help.

Epidemic, in my opinion.

As someone who absolutely SHOULD cut off their family but can't due to a lifelong guilt training exercise I really cannot express how much I loathe people like you both.

Then, for Christ's sake get some serious help. It seems that you have so much anger generally that you cannot help but view everything as toxic. You really are becoming enormously transparent here.

I've made two posts on this thread. I don't view everything as toxic. I view my mother as toxic. And frankly everyone who has seen her true face and turned the other way while my brothers and I were abused.

So fine, but your personal situation doesn't generalize to everyone else's. And, therapy is a good idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe the person who doesn’t go out of their way to air their side of a personal relationship publicly. There’s something wrong with a person who does that.

They do that out of the same heartache as a death.
Millennials need to understand how relationships work and how to communicate. Estrangement is epic in this generation and it is usually a daughter or son in law that draws a line in the sand. I've heard a ton of stories as to why someone thinks their MIL is toxic. They don't know what toxic means. Any comment is misconstrued, ever thought, and taken personally...and then the family is cut off.

I’d argue that people are finally starting to demand to be treated better. Being a MIL doesn’t give you a license to say horrible comments. In previous generations women were expected to just take it. Sorry but no one is treating me badly. People make mistakes, but continue to insult me and cause trouble and yes, you will be cut off.

Or maybe someone is the type of person who needs so much validation that they read slights into everything. That is what I see. I know someone who went to a craft store with her DIL. Mil carried the baby, and saw a friend. The friend said to the MIL, who knew there was a new grandchild, " Is that the new baby?" Mil said " Yes! It's our new addition!"
DIL made her apologize later that night , with the husband/son in tow to watch, for the word "our." " It's not YOUR baby!" She was angry, and crying, that Mom used the word "our." SIL, husband's sister suggested that DIL might be overtired. The entire family has been cut off . It's been years. No contact. There are more stories like this. Don't ever assume there is always the "right" one and inlaws or parents are always monsters.

I'd bet a million dollars that the MIL had been acting like its equally/partially her baby up to that point, and it was that behavior and not the particular words that day that caused the estrangement. Like the MIL complaining that she doesn't get to see "our new baby" enough, for example. The fact is that it's not her baby at ALL unless the parents of the baby want that to be the case.

+1. This is just one example of the MIL overstepping boundaries to steal the spotlight. How many others are there? It makes no sense that the entire family was cut off for one not-huge issue. This story that they don't understand why they're cut off but they're blaming the DIL is the hallmark of a dysfunctional family. They just don't want to admit why.

Postpartum is a very emotional time and it's for the parents, especially the mother, to bond with the baby. Everyone else is supposed to support the couple by doing errands, cooking, cleaning, etc. The baby is the mother's turf. The MIL should have been more careful not to overstep. It's also unbelievable that there wasn't more to the story.

+2 And the SIL's comment about being 'overtired'? Yeah, why not just tell her to 'calm down'? That's always good at descalating things. I have to wonder, though, where is the DH in all this? Are his fingers broken and he can't call/text?

This story to me seems to reflect a lack of respect and sanity in both sides. Perhaps MIL and DIL are both drama queens- people always marry someone who reminds them of a parent.

Ok, no. Mom wasn't doing or saying anything that was leading up. The screaming fight came entirely out of the semantics of the answer in the craft store- which had no agenda. But, do you see how quick PP here is talking about the spotlight? There it is.

You seem awful adamant about what happened given that you’re supposedly a bystander who didn’t personally witness it.

LOL No, I am not the person involved. Yet I know the people extremely well. And, no one had to be there to see there was absolutely nothing wrong with what MIL said. The piling on from you and whoever else, who also weren'tvthere yet assumes the worst, underscores my point- issues with communication and relationships.