Estrangement Doesn't Just Happen to "Bad" Moms—It Happened to Me Too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m part of the Raised by Borderlines group on Reddit. That group is enormously helpful.

I remember reading this article when it came out, and recognized the personality-disordered parent language/thinking immediately.

Yeah, the grocery store incident and the sports comment read very borderline to me.

Yep. The author straight up mentioned abandonment. Classic borderline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m part of the Raised by Borderlines group on Reddit. That group is enormously helpful.

I remember reading this article when it came out, and recognized the personality-disordered parent language/thinking immediately.

Yeah, the grocery store incident and the sports comment read very borderline to me.

Yep. The author straight up mentioned abandonment. Classic borderline.

Buzz words with zero context. Everyone loves to use the borderline catch all term. It's an epidemic in usage, but not in practice. No one uses the immaturity term, and most of the time that is what it is, on the part of the adult child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m part of the Raised by Borderlines group on Reddit. That group is enormously helpful.

I remember reading this article when it came out, and recognized the personality-disordered parent language/thinking immediately.

Yeah, the grocery store incident and the sports comment read very borderline to me.

Yep. The author straight up mentioned abandonment. Classic borderline.

Buzz words with zero context. Everyone loves to use the borderline catch all term. It's an epidemic in usage, but not in practice. No one uses the immaturity term, and most of the time that is what it is, on the part of the adult child.

Yeah but this lady wrote a book about the estrangement and took her show on the road, from the sound of it. Magazine interviews, a Facebook group, etc…this isn’t a normal way to act if you value the relationship with your estranged child. This is desperate attention-seeking behavior and a cry for validation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe the person who doesn’t go out of their way to air their side of a personal relationship publicly. There’s something wrong with a person who does that.

They do that out of the same heartache as a death.
Millennials need to understand how relationships work and how to communicate. Estrangement is epic in this generation and it is usually a daughter or son in law that draws a line in the sand. I've heard a ton of stories as to why someone thinks their MIL is toxic. They don't know what toxic means. Any comment is misconstrued, ever thought, and taken personally...and then the family is cut off.

I’d argue that people are finally starting to demand to be treated better. Being a MIL doesn’t give you a license to say horrible comments. In previous generations women were expected to just take it. Sorry but no one is treating me badly. People make mistakes, but continue to insult me and cause trouble and yes, you will be cut off.

Or maybe someone is the type of person who needs so much validation that they read slights into everything. That is what I see. I know someone who went to a craft store with her DIL. Mil carried the baby, and saw a friend. The friend said to the MIL, who knew there was a new grandchild, " Is that the new baby?" Mil said " Yes! It's our new addition!"
DIL made her apologize later that night , with the husband/son in tow to watch, for the word "our." " It's not YOUR baby!" She was angry, and crying, that Mom used the word "our." SIL, husband's sister suggested that DIL might be overtired. The entire family has been cut off . It's been years. No contact. There are more stories like this. Don't ever assume there is always the "right" one and inlaws or parents are always monsters.

I'd bet a million dollars that the MIL had been acting like its equally/partially her baby up to that point, and it was that behavior and not the particular words that day that caused the estrangement. Like the MIL complaining that she doesn't get to see "our new baby" enough, for example. The fact is that it's not her baby at ALL unless the parents of the baby want that to be the case.

+1. This is just one example of the MIL overstepping boundaries to steal the spotlight. How many others are there? It makes no sense that the entire family was cut off for one not-huge issue. This story that they don't understand why they're cut off but they're blaming the DIL is the hallmark of a dysfunctional family. They just don't want to admit why.

Postpartum is a very emotional time and it's for the parents, especially the mother, to bond with the baby. Everyone else is supposed to support the couple by doing errands, cooking, cleaning, etc. The baby is the mother's turf. The MIL should have been more careful not to overstep. It's also unbelievable that there wasn't more to the story.

+2 And the SIL's comment about being 'overtired'? Yeah, why not just tell her to 'calm down'? That's always good at descalating things. I have to wonder, though, where is the DH in all this? Are his fingers broken and he can't call/text?

This story to me seems to reflect a lack of respect and sanity in both sides. Perhaps MIL and DIL are both drama queens- people always marry someone who reminds them of a parent.

Ok, no. Mom wasn't doing or saying anything that was leading up. The screaming fight came entirely out of the semantics of the answer in the craft store- which had no agenda. But, do you see how quick PP here is talking about the spotlight? There it is.

My ex-MIl did the same thing with my kids calling them her babies.
Meh, I just let it roll off me. My babies knew who their mother was.
What a petty person to cut off a family member over a verbal piffle.
Over a 15 years later, I encourage my kids to visit their paternal grandparents (my ex-in-laws) coz they would regret not doing so once they have passed on even though the kids currently roll their eyes at the thought.
As my matrimonial attorney told me -slash- shut down my pointless griping about ex and his family - 'well, YOU married him'. It was the truth and I wasn't paying her nearly $600/hr to hear me make pointless complaints. So I take ownership of my decisions there and focus on the long term health and well-being of my kids. I also didn't grow up with any grandparents so I know my kids don't realize how lucky they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m part of the Raised by Borderlines group on Reddit. That group is enormously helpful.

I remember reading this article when it came out, and recognized the personality-disordered parent language/thinking immediately.

Yeah, the grocery store incident and the sports comment read very borderline to me.

Yep. The author straight up mentioned abandonment. Classic borderline.

Buzz words with zero context. Everyone loves to use the borderline catch all term. It's an epidemic in usage, but not in practice. No one uses the immaturity term, and most of the time that is what it is, on the part of the adult child.

Yeah but this lady wrote a book about the estrangement and took her show on the road, from the sound of it. Magazine interviews, a Facebook group, etc…this isn’t a normal way to act if you value the relationship with your estranged child. This is desperate attention-seeking behavior and a cry for validation.

No, actually child estrangement is one of the deep dark secrets in families. Parents don't often talk about it because they don't want to further exacerbate the problem, they are embarrassed, they need to talk about personal things. Generational soft rules about not airing family laundry, feae of being judged, etc. Just like other things that have come to light in this generation, out of the cloak of stigma- mental illness,disability, relationship issues, addiction, adoption, there are people who helped move this into the arena by writing, listeserves, Reddit type platforms, support groups. Just like everything, there's a platform for it. You can't now decide it proves that either party is the narcissist if you don't do that for any other airing of closeted issues. It's almost counter intuitive. You also can't be tribal because you have an experience on either side. It doesn't help your cause to cherry pick out of context examples to prove something you know nothing about just because it fuels your agenda with your parent or your child. All you do is dilute the experience.

This family really isn't an example of any one thing. She was honest. She behaved in a very typical way, yes, including the grocery store, out of fear. It's probably very frightening to be afraid if saying or doing anything that could make it worse. You will see the kid found a way back- he found some testifies, and it's pretty clear where the issue was. I have a friend who lost contact with her daughter due to a very mentally ill son in law. It was the most painful thing all of us ever saw and she and her husband were in enormous pain and in therapy for years. It affected their health.12 years later, the daughter left what she calls an abusive marriage ( which we all saw) and claims she was in a trauma bond. She's in therapy working out how to deal which a controlling narcissistic co parent and it consumes her life and wallet...lawyers cost $$. Therapist and lawyers both have questioned her reasons for ever being with him to begin with, the stories are mind boggling and frightening. Worse than anyone saw on the surface, and that surface was pretty bad. Estrangement, isolation from her friends and family...he was at work right from the wedding.
No, it's not always the parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m part of the Raised by Borderlines group on Reddit. That group is enormously helpful.

I remember reading this article when it came out, and recognized the personality-disordered parent language/thinking immediately.

Yeah, the grocery store incident and the sports comment read very borderline to me.

Yep. The author straight up mentioned abandonment. Classic borderline.

Buzz words with zero context. Everyone loves to use the borderline catch all term. It's an epidemic in usage, but not in practice. No one uses the immaturity term, and most of the time that is what it is, on the part of the adult child.

Yeah but this lady wrote a book about the estrangement and took her show on the road, from the sound of it. Magazine interviews, a Facebook group, etc…this isn’t a normal way to act if you value the relationship with your estranged child. This is desperate attention-seeking behavior and a cry for validation.

No, actually child estrangement is one of the deep dark secrets in families. Parents don't often talk about it because they don't want to further exacerbate the problem, they are embarrassed, they need to talk about personal things. Generational soft rules about not airing family laundry, feae of being judged, etc. Just like other things that have come to light in this generation, out of the cloak of stigma- mental illness,disability, relationship issues, addiction, adoption, there are people who helped move this into the arena by writing, listeserves, Reddit type platforms, support groups. Just like everything, there's a platform for it. You can't now decide it proves that either party is the narcissist if you don't do that for any other airing of closeted issues. It's almost counter intuitive. You also can't be tribal because you have an experience on either side. It doesn't help your cause to cherry pick out of context examples to prove something you know nothing about just because it fuels your agenda with your parent or your child. All you do is dilute the experience.

This family really isn't an example of any one thing. She was honest. She behaved in a very typical way, yes, including the grocery store, out of fear. It's probably very frightening to be afraid if saying or doing anything that could make it worse. You will see the kid found a way back- he found some testifies, and it's pretty clear where the issue was. I have a friend who lost contact with her daughter due to a very mentally ill son in law. It was the most painful thing all of us ever saw and she and her husband were in enormous pain and in therapy for years. It affected their health.12 years later, the daughter left what she calls an abusive marriage ( which we all saw) and claims she was in a trauma bond. She's in therapy working out how to deal which a controlling narcissistic co parent and it consumes her life and wallet...lawyers cost $$. Therapist and lawyers both have questioned her reasons for ever being with him to begin with, the stories are mind boggling and frightening. Worse than anyone saw on the surface, and that surface was pretty bad. Estrangement, isolation from her friends and family...he was at work right from the wedding.
No, it's not always the parent.

Of course it’s not always the parent but in this specific example, even if the mother didn’t start it, she has finished it. They can never reconcile because of her actions. Maybe that’s what she wants and this book was her way of closure. But once you put something like this about your child out for public consumption, it’s probably over. Perhaps it already was so my point doesn’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m part of the Raised by Borderlines group on Reddit. That group is enormously helpful.

I remember reading this article when it came out, and recognized the personality-disordered parent language/thinking immediately.

Yeah, the grocery store incident and the sports comment read very borderline to me.

Yep. The author straight up mentioned abandonment. Classic borderline.

Buzz words with zero context. Everyone loves to use the borderline catch all term. It's an epidemic in usage, but not in practice. No one uses the immaturity term, and most of the time that is what it is, on the part of the adult child.

Yeah but this lady wrote a book about the estrangement and took her show on the road, from the sound of it. Magazine interviews, a Facebook group, etc…this isn’t a normal way to act if you value the relationship with your estranged child. This is desperate attention-seeking behavior and a cry for validation.

No, actually child estrangement is one of the deep dark secrets in families. Parents don't often talk about it because they don't want to further exacerbate the problem, they are embarrassed, they need to talk about personal things. Generational soft rules about not airing family laundry, feae of being judged, etc. Just like other things that have come to light in this generation, out of the cloak of stigma- mental illness,disability, relationship issues, addiction, adoption, there are people who helped move this into the arena by writing, listeserves, Reddit type platforms, support groups. Just like everything, there's a platform for it. You can't now decide it proves that either party is the narcissist if you don't do that for any other airing of closeted issues. It's almost counter intuitive. You also can't be tribal because you have an experience on either side. It doesn't help your cause to cherry pick out of context examples to prove something you know nothing about just because it fuels your agenda with your parent or your child. All you do is dilute the experience.

This family really isn't an example of any one thing. She was honest. She behaved in a very typical way, yes, including the grocery store, out of fear. It's probably very frightening to be afraid if saying or doing anything that could make it worse. You will see the kid found a way back- he found some testifies, and it's pretty clear where the issue was. I have a friend who lost contact with her daughter due to a very mentally ill son in law. It was the most painful thing all of us ever saw and she and her husband were in enormous pain and in therapy for years. It affected their health.12 years later, the daughter left what she calls an abusive marriage ( which we all saw) and claims she was in a trauma bond. She's in therapy working out how to deal which a controlling narcissistic co parent and it consumes her life and wallet...lawyers cost $$. Therapist and lawyers both have questioned her reasons for ever being with him to begin with, the stories are mind boggling and frightening. Worse than anyone saw on the surface, and that surface was pretty bad. Estrangement, isolation from her friends and family...he was at work right from the wedding.
No, it's not always the parent.

Also you have no idea if she is being honest.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think estrangement is always the parents fault, I do think that there is always a reason for it. It is often a reason the parent doesn’t agree with or feels the child is exaggerating but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m part of the Raised by Borderlines group on Reddit. That group is enormously helpful.

I remember reading this article when it came out, and recognized the personality-disordered parent language/thinking immediately.

Yeah, the grocery store incident and the sports comment read very borderline to me.

Yep. The author straight up mentioned abandonment. Classic borderline.

Buzz words with zero context. Everyone loves to use the borderline catch all term. It's an epidemic in usage, but not in practice. No one uses the immaturity term, and most of the time that is what it is, on the part of the adult child.

Yeah but this lady wrote a book about the estrangement and took her show on the road, from the sound of it. Magazine interviews, a Facebook group, etc…this isn’t a normal way to act if you value the relationship with your estranged child. This is desperate attention-seeking behavior and a cry for validation.

No, actually child estrangement is one of the deep dark secrets in families. Parents don't often talk about it because they don't want to further exacerbate the problem, they are embarrassed, they need to talk about personal things. Generational soft rules about not airing family laundry, feae of being judged, etc. Just like other things that have come to light in this generation, out of the cloak of stigma- mental illness,disability, relationship issues, addiction, adoption, there are people who helped move this into the arena by writing, listeserves, Reddit type platforms, support groups. Just like everything, there's a platform for it. You can't now decide it proves that either party is the narcissist if you don't do that for any other airing of closeted issues. It's almost counter intuitive. You also can't be tribal because you have an experience on either side. It doesn't help your cause to cherry pick out of context examples to prove something you know nothing about just because it fuels your agenda with your parent or your child. All you do is dilute the experience.

This family really isn't an example of any one thing. She was honest. She behaved in a very typical way, yes, including the grocery store, out of fear. It's probably very frightening to be afraid if saying or doing anything that could make it worse. You will see the kid found a way back- he found some testifies, and it's pretty clear where the issue was. I have a friend who lost contact with her daughter due to a very mentally ill son in law. It was the most painful thing all of us ever saw and she and her husband were in enormous pain and in therapy for years. It affected their health.12 years later, the daughter left what she calls an abusive marriage ( which we all saw) and claims she was in a trauma bond. She's in therapy working out how to deal which a controlling narcissistic co parent and it consumes her life and wallet...lawyers cost $$. Therapist and lawyers both have questioned her reasons for ever being with him to begin with, the stories are mind boggling and frightening. Worse than anyone saw on the surface, and that surface was pretty bad. Estrangement, isolation from her friends and family...he was at work right from the wedding.
No, it's not always the parent.

Of course it’s not always the parent but in this specific example, even if the mother didn’t start it, she has finished it. They can never reconcile because of her actions. Maybe that’s what she wants and this book was her way of closure. But once you put something like this about your child out for public consumption, it’s probably over. Perhaps it already was so my point doesn’t matter.

She has as much right to air her side of a grievance as DIL does. Somehow if it's the Mom, she's a narcissist, but if it's the DIL, she's the victim. In this article, I found myself on Team Mom. The daughters behavior, objectively listed raised many red flags.

[Anonymous]

Pp, what behavior are you talking about? The daughter in law? What did she do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m part of the Raised by Borderlines group on Reddit. That group is enormously helpful.

I remember reading this article when it came out, and recognized the personality-disordered parent language/thinking immediately.

Yeah, the grocery store incident and the sports comment read very borderline to me.

Yep. The author straight up mentioned abandonment. Classic borderline.

Buzz words with zero context. Everyone loves to use the borderline catch all term. It's an epidemic in usage, but not in practice. No one uses the immaturity term, and most of the time that is what it is, on the part of the adult child.

Yeah but this lady wrote a book about the estrangement and took her show on the road, from the sound of it. Magazine interviews, a Facebook group, etc…this isn’t a normal way to act if you value the relationship with your estranged child. This is desperate attention-seeking behavior and a cry for validation.

No, actually child estrangement is one of the deep dark secrets in families. Parents don't often talk about it because they don't want to further exacerbate the problem, they are embarrassed, they need to talk about personal things. Generational soft rules about not airing family laundry, feae of being judged, etc. Just like other things that have come to light in this generation, out of the cloak of stigma- mental illness,disability, relationship issues, addiction, adoption, there are people who helped move this into the arena by writing, listeserves, Reddit type platforms, support groups. Just like everything, there's a platform for it. You can't now decide it proves that either party is the narcissist if you don't do that for any other airing of closeted issues. It's almost counter intuitive. You also can't be tribal because you have an experience on either side. It doesn't help your cause to cherry pick out of context examples to prove something you know nothing about just because it fuels your agenda with your parent or your child. All you do is dilute the experience.

This family really isn't an example of any one thing. She was honest. She behaved in a very typical way, yes, including the grocery store, out of fear. It's probably very frightening to be afraid if saying or doing anything that could make it worse. You will see the kid found a way back- he found some testifies, and it's pretty clear where the issue was. I have a friend who lost contact with her daughter due to a very mentally ill son in law. It was the most painful thing all of us ever saw and she and her husband were in enormous pain and in therapy for years. It affected their health.12 years later, the daughter left what she calls an abusive marriage ( which we all saw) and claims she was in a trauma bond. She's in therapy working out how to deal which a controlling narcissistic co parent and it consumes her life and wallet...lawyers cost $$. Therapist and lawyers both have questioned her reasons for ever being with him to begin with, the stories are mind boggling and frightening. Worse than anyone saw on the surface, and that surface was pretty bad. Estrangement, isolation from her friends and family...he was at work right from the wedding.
No, it's not always the parent.

Of course a child can be mentally ill, but that is not this situation. A parent talking about a mentally ill child sounds very different than this, and does not at all sound like the story you are telling about your friend. In this case, you are cherry picking examples like the one about the grocery store. The not saying anything out of fear is not why people bring up that incident. After the mother fails to contact the son, she sends him an aggressive message, trying to send him on a guilt trip (when she failed equally) and then retells the story to the general public for sympathy. None of that is normal. The mother probably is truly frightened and sad (that is part of being borderline, feeling these types of emotions strongly), but most people would be kinder about reaching out or, at the very least, feel some type of remorse for sending a jerk message to their child (not include the story in a book aimed at garnering sympathy).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m part of the Raised by Borderlines group on Reddit. That group is enormously helpful.

I remember reading this article when it came out, and recognized the personality-disordered parent language/thinking immediately.

Yeah, the grocery store incident and the sports comment read very borderline to me.

Yep. The author straight up mentioned abandonment. Classic borderline.

Buzz words with zero context. Everyone loves to use the borderline catch all term. It's an epidemic in usage, but not in practice. No one uses the immaturity term, and most of the time that is what it is, on the part of the adult child.

Yeah but this lady wrote a book about the estrangement and took her show on the road, from the sound of it. Magazine interviews, a Facebook group, etc…this isn’t a normal way to act if you value the relationship with your estranged child. This is desperate attention-seeking behavior and a cry for validation.

No, actually child estrangement is one of the deep dark secrets in families. Parents don't often talk about it because they don't want to further exacerbate the problem, they are embarrassed, they need to talk about personal things. Generational soft rules about not airing family laundry, feae of being judged, etc. Just like other things that have come to light in this generation, out of the cloak of stigma- mental illness,disability, relationship issues, addiction, adoption, there are people who helped move this into the arena by writing, listeserves, Reddit type platforms, support groups. Just like everything, there's a platform for it. You can't now decide it proves that either party is the narcissist if you don't do that for any other airing of closeted issues. It's almost counter intuitive. You also can't be tribal because you have an experience on either side. It doesn't help your cause to cherry pick out of context examples to prove something you know nothing about just because it fuels your agenda with your parent or your child. All you do is dilute the experience.

This family really isn't an example of any one thing. She was honest. She behaved in a very typical way, yes, including the grocery store, out of fear. It's probably very frightening to be afraid if saying or doing anything that could make it worse. You will see the kid found a way back- he found some testifies, and it's pretty clear where the issue was. I have a friend who lost contact with her daughter due to a very mentally ill son in law. It was the most painful thing all of us ever saw and she and her husband were in enormous pain and in therapy for years. It affected their health.12 years later, the daughter left what she calls an abusive marriage ( which we all saw) and claims she was in a trauma bond. She's in therapy working out how to deal which a controlling narcissistic co parent and it consumes her life and wallet...lawyers cost $$. Therapist and lawyers both have questioned her reasons for ever being with him to begin with, the stories are mind boggling and frightening. Worse than anyone saw on the surface, and that surface was pretty bad. Estrangement, isolation from her friends and family...he was at work right from the wedding.
No, it's not always the parent.

Of course a child can be mentally ill, but that is not this situation. A parent talking about a mentally ill child sounds very different than this, and does not at all sound like the story you are telling about your friend. In this case, you are cherry picking examples like the one about the grocery store. The not saying anything out of fear is not why people bring up that incident. After the mother fails to contact the son, she sends him an aggressive message, trying to send him on a guilt trip (when she failed equally) and then retells the story to the general public for sympathy. None of that is normal. The mother probably is truly frightened and sad (that is part of being borderline, feeling these types of emotions strongly), but most people would be kinder about reaching out or, at the very least, feel some type of remorse for sending a jerk message to their child (not include the story in a book aimed at garnering sympathy).

I mean to say that the story you are telling about your friend is different than the author's story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m part of the Raised by Borderlines group on Reddit. That group is enormously helpful.

I remember reading this article when it came out, and recognized the personality-disordered parent language/thinking immediately.

Yeah, the grocery store incident and the sports comment read very borderline to me.

Yep. The author straight up mentioned abandonment. Classic borderline.

Buzz words with zero context. Everyone loves to use the borderline catch all term. It's an epidemic in usage, but not in practice. No one uses the immaturity term, and most of the time that is what it is, on the part of the adult child.

Yeah but this lady wrote a book about the estrangement and took her show on the road, from the sound of it. Magazine interviews, a Facebook group, etc…this isn’t a normal way to act if you value the relationship with your estranged child. This is desperate attention-seeking behavior and a cry for validation.

No, actually child estrangement is one of the deep dark secrets in families. Parents don't often talk about it because they don't want to further exacerbate the problem, they are embarrassed, they need to talk about personal things. Generational soft rules about not airing family laundry, feae of being judged, etc. Just like other things that have come to light in this generation, out of the cloak of stigma- mental illness,disability, relationship issues, addiction, adoption, there are people who helped move this into the arena by writing, listeserves, Reddit type platforms, support groups. Just like everything, there's a platform for it. You can't now decide it proves that either party is the narcissist if you don't do that for any other airing of closeted issues. It's almost counter intuitive. You also can't be tribal because you have an experience on either side. It doesn't help your cause to cherry pick out of context examples to prove something you know nothing about just because it fuels your agenda with your parent or your child. All you do is dilute the experience.

This family really isn't an example of any one thing. She was honest. She behaved in a very typical way, yes, including the grocery store, out of fear. It's probably very frightening to be afraid if saying or doing anything that could make it worse. You will see the kid found a way back- he found some testifies, and it's pretty clear where the issue was. I have a friend who lost contact with her daughter due to a very mentally ill son in law. It was the most painful thing all of us ever saw and she and her husband were in enormous pain and in therapy for years. It affected their health.12 years later, the daughter left what she calls an abusive marriage ( which we all saw) and claims she was in a trauma bond. She's in therapy working out how to deal which a controlling narcissistic co parent and it consumes her life and wallet...lawyers cost $$. Therapist and lawyers both have questioned her reasons for ever being with him to begin with, the stories are mind boggling and frightening. Worse than anyone saw on the surface, and that surface was pretty bad. Estrangement, isolation from her friends and family...he was at work right from the wedding.
No, it's not always the parent.

Of course a child can be mentally ill, but that is not this situation. A parent talking about a mentally ill child sounds very different than this, and does not at all sound like the story you are telling about your friend. In this case, you are cherry picking examples like the one about the grocery store. The not saying anything out of fear is not why people bring up that incident. After the mother fails to contact the son, she sends him an aggressive message, trying to send him on a guilt trip (when she failed equally) and then retells the story to the general public for sympathy. None of that is normal. The mother probably is truly frightened and sad (that is part of being borderline, feeling these types of emotions strongly), but most people would be kinder about reaching out or, at the very least, feel some type of remorse for sending a jerk message to their child (not include the story in a book aimed at garnering sympathy).

I mean to say that the story you are telling about your friend is different than the author's story.

How? My friend's daughter married an immature controlling narcissist. So did this woman's son. You literally have only the information about the Mom, but here is the DIL coming up with sudden reasons this woman will not be a part of their lives- starting with the wedding. DIL is where the problem is here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m part of the Raised by Borderlines group on Reddit. That group is enormously helpful.

I remember reading this article when it came out, and recognized the personality-disordered parent language/thinking immediately.

Yeah, the grocery store incident and the sports comment read very borderline to me.

Yep. The author straight up mentioned abandonment. Classic borderline.

Buzz words with zero context. Everyone loves to use the borderline catch all term. It's an epidemic in usage, but not in practice. No one uses the immaturity term, and most of the time that is what it is, on the part of the adult child.

Yeah but this lady wrote a book about the estrangement and took her show on the road, from the sound of it. Magazine interviews, a Facebook group, etc…this isn’t a normal way to act if you value the relationship with your estranged child. This is desperate attention-seeking behavior and a cry for validation.

No, actually child estrangement is one of the deep dark secrets in families. Parents don't often talk about it because they don't want to further exacerbate the problem, they are embarrassed, they need to talk about personal things. Generational soft rules about not airing family laundry, feae of being judged, etc. Just like other things that have come to light in this generation, out of the cloak of stigma- mental illness,disability, relationship issues, addiction, adoption, there are people who helped move this into the arena by writing, listeserves, Reddit type platforms, support groups. Just like everything, there's a platform for it. You can't now decide it proves that either party is the narcissist if you don't do that for any other airing of closeted issues. It's almost counter intuitive. You also can't be tribal because you have an experience on either side. It doesn't help your cause to cherry pick out of context examples to prove something you know nothing about just because it fuels your agenda with your parent or your child. All you do is dilute the experience.

This family really isn't an example of any one thing. She was honest. She behaved in a very typical way, yes, including the grocery store, out of fear. It's probably very frightening to be afraid if saying or doing anything that could make it worse. You will see the kid found a way back- he found some testifies, and it's pretty clear where the issue was. I have a friend who lost contact with her daughter due to a very mentally ill son in law. It was the most painful thing all of us ever saw and she and her husband were in enormous pain and in therapy for years. It affected their health.12 years later, the daughter left what she calls an abusive marriage ( which we all saw) and claims she was in a trauma bond. She's in therapy working out how to deal which a controlling narcissistic co parent and it consumes her life and wallet...lawyers cost $$. Therapist and lawyers both have questioned her reasons for ever being with him to begin with, the stories are mind boggling and frightening. Worse than anyone saw on the surface, and that surface was pretty bad. Estrangement, isolation from her friends and family...he was at work right from the wedding.
No, it's not always the parent.

Of course a child can be mentally ill, but that is not this situation. A parent talking about a mentally ill child sounds very different than this, and does not at all sound like the story you are telling about your friend. In this case, you are cherry picking examples like the one about the grocery store. The not saying anything out of fear is not why people bring up that incident. After the mother fails to contact the son, she sends him an aggressive message, trying to send him on a guilt trip (when she failed equally) and then retells the story to the general public for sympathy. None of that is normal. The mother probably is truly frightened and sad (that is part of being borderline, feeling these types of emotions strongly), but most people would be kinder about reaching out or, at the very least, feel some type of remorse for sending a jerk message to their child (not include the story in a book aimed at garnering sympathy).

I mean to say that the story you are telling about your friend is different than the author's story.

How? My friend's daughter married an immature controlling narcissist. So did this woman's son. You literally have only the information about the Mom, but here is the DIL coming up with sudden reasons this woman will not be a part of their lives- starting with the wedding. DIL is where the problem is here.

And the info we have about the mom indicates she's borderline. So many people have already posted examples of why so many of us think this.

[Anonymous]

In the article it says very early on the son starts comparing his family to his fiancé's family. My MIL did this shortly after I married DH. She would compare her family with mine. My MIL was mentally unstable or emotionally immature, whatever you want to call it, she caused a lot of drama and problems.

I think there were issues with the new DIL who didn't want to share with a new family.

I think this because at the end when the family wanted to know what was wrong, the couple wanted to rug sweep it and not talk about it. Mentally unstable people do this, they don't talk about issues. I mean you have this massive estrangement with someone but you won't or can't talk about it - the person who can't or won't talk is the problem, so in this case it's the son and DIL. I honestly think they won't talk because they know they will get hit with the truth and they can't handle that.