How long did it take for you/your spouse to feel balance/normal after an extra marital affair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been trying to decide what makes my marriage's recovery different from the PPs who state "just leave, it's not worth it" or the people that while they "happily left" still sound so very bitter than I feel (and trust me people I could be bitter) and I think a big part of it is how we deal with this "bubbling."

I'll start by saying that DH is highly remorseful, and really worked on his SH--. I know not everyone is given that, and if he hadn't been remorseful I'm not sure how I'd feel. I think it really matters to acknowledge that it doesn't ever go away, and have a plan of how to work through it when it does bubble - but I don't hold it over his head like an anvil waiting to drop either. That's not to say it doesn't come up (particularly after a couple glasses of wine and we're discussing his mother but when it comes up it's more - I don't know...humorous? Maybe that's just my personality though. Never been a grudge holder. But it also comes up in our discussions about how to best parent our kids - and I swear to you I'm so much more interested in raising happy, honest humans than I am successful doctors or lawyers than I was before this all happened. Undeniably we are both going to be better parents because of this.

But back to the bubbling: I might need reassurance on occasion and he might need to give it. He might need to apologize one more time, but more often than not, he apologizes one more time, without me forcing it. I have to apologize too, for things I could have done better and still need to do better to this day. We're quite an apologetic, but happy family. We've all gotten pretty damn good at apologizing!

Also, I see her - mmmmm - 3-4 times a week! That's right! For those of you that say you "could never tolerate that" you're right, at first I couldn't - I would have rather walked through fire than make nice with her in the situation were in, but, slowly it became incredibly cathartic - first to ignore her - and then, to just not care. You guys, one day I stopped giving a shit. That was a fabulous day, it truly was. And now, she's not insignificant to me, she's no more significant than anyone else and that is a wonderful feeling.

That's what I feel when I look back on this whole thing - it forced me out of this fairy tale idea I had about the way the world worked and made me see people for the first time, Not just D! but everyone, and I like it a lot better over here - where people are flawed but they can get better, and so can I.

Pp, you are an awesome individual. You recognize that life is a bunch of shades of grey, that people are human, that we can knock each other down and pull each other back up. Your life has become incredibly honest and you have allowed yourself to feel things deeply. So many people do not let themselves go there...it is too scary. You are a really lucky person to really wake up to life. My best to you, from one DW to another.

I agree. She's impressive.

No. Sounds like a doormat rewarding bad behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here are my words of wisdom for someone who is going through this and "wants to try to stay together". The relationship will not survive unless the perpetrator comes fully clean about what happened, engages in intensive therapy to understand the reasons within him/herself (not within the "relationship") that lead him/her to take steps that could be so destructive of the marital relationship and the spouse/family, and cuts off all contact with the AP and becomes fully transparent about feelings/behaviors/activities and makes necessary changes in his/her own behavior.

How long does it take to feel okay again? I felt "OK" immediately in the sense that I didn't blame myself or feel diminished by it; however, I felt sad for years -- mostly because the infidelity continued in various forms with various people despite DH's insistence that he wanted to stay together and would stop. And, although I was 100% confident and happy about my decision to end the relationship, I and my family permanently suffer negative consequences of the affair (negative affect on my career, reduced family income, loss of friends, damaged relationships with family members, emotional trauma to kids).

Read up on "infidelity trauma". I think it describes very well the PTSD-like impacts of affairs. Like PTSD, these symptoms can last years. You may think everything is fine, and then one day something happens that brings you right back to the first moment it happened.

On the bright side, have we found a new normal? Yes. Am I happier without him than I could ever have been with him? A thousand times, yes.

What I realized was that the problem wasn't just that he was unfaithful. The problem was he was a liar, self-centered, and unable to control his impulses. Who wants to live with that?

This. Five stars.*****

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been trying to decide what makes my marriage's recovery different from the PPs who state "just leave, it's not worth it" or the people that while they "happily left" still sound so very bitter than I feel (and trust me people I could be bitter) and I think a big part of it is how we deal with this "bubbling."

I'll start by saying that DH is highly remorseful, and really worked on his SH--. I know not everyone is given that, and if he hadn't been remorseful I'm not sure how I'd feel. I think it really matters to acknowledge that it doesn't ever go away, and have a plan of how to work through it when it does bubble - but I don't hold it over his head like an anvil waiting to drop either. That's not to say it doesn't come up (particularly after a couple glasses of wine and we're discussing his mother but when it comes up it's more - I don't know...humorous? Maybe that's just my personality though. Never been a grudge holder. But it also comes up in our discussions about how to best parent our kids - and I swear to you I'm so much more interested in raising happy, honest humans than I am successful doctors or lawyers than I was before this all happened. Undeniably we are both going to be better parents because of this.

But back to the bubbling: I might need reassurance on occasion and he might need to give it. He might need to apologize one more time, but more often than not, he apologizes one more time, without me forcing it. I have to apologize too, for things I could have done better and still need to do better to this day. We're quite an apologetic, but happy family. We've all gotten pretty damn good at apologizing!

Also, I see her - mmmmm - 3-4 times a week! That's right! For those of you that say you "could never tolerate that" you're right, at first I couldn't - I would have rather walked through fire than make nice with her in the situation were in, but, slowly it became incredibly cathartic - first to ignore her - and then, to just not care. You guys, one day I stopped giving a shit. That was a fabulous day, it truly was. And now, she's not insignificant to me, she's no more significant than anyone else and that is a wonderful feeling.

That's what I feel when I look back on this whole thing - it forced me out of this fairy tale idea I had about the way the world worked and made me see people for the first time, Not just D! but everyone, and I like it a lot better over here - where people are flawed but they can get better, and so can I.

Pp, you are an awesome individual. You recognize that life is a bunch of shades of grey, that people are human, that we can knock each other down and pull each other back up. Your life has become incredibly honest and you have allowed yourself to feel things deeply. So many people do not let themselves go there...it is too scary. You are a really lucky person to really wake up to life. My best to you, from one DW to another.

I agree. She's impressive.

No. Sounds like a doormat rewarding bad behavior.

Shh.. Let her live in delusion until he strays again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been trying to decide what makes my marriage's recovery different from the PPs who state "just leave, it's not worth it" or the people that while they "happily left" still sound so very bitter than I feel (and trust me people I could be bitter) and I think a big part of it is how we deal with this "bubbling."

I'll start by saying that DH is highly remorseful, and really worked on his SH--. I know not everyone is given that, and if he hadn't been remorseful I'm not sure how I'd feel. I think it really matters to acknowledge that it doesn't ever go away, and have a plan of how to work through it when it does bubble - but I don't hold it over his head like an anvil waiting to drop either. That's not to say it doesn't come up (particularly after a couple glasses of wine and we're discussing his mother but when it comes up it's more - I don't know...humorous? Maybe that's just my personality though. Never been a grudge holder. But it also comes up in our discussions about how to best parent our kids - and I swear to you I'm so much more interested in raising happy, honest humans than I am successful doctors or lawyers than I was before this all happened. Undeniably we are both going to be better parents because of this.

But back to the bubbling: I might need reassurance on occasion and he might need to give it. He might need to apologize one more time, but more often than not, he apologizes one more time, without me forcing it. I have to apologize too, for things I could have done better and still need to do better to this day. We're quite an apologetic, but happy family. We've all gotten pretty damn good at apologizing!

Also, I see her - mmmmm - 3-4 times a week! That's right! For those of you that say you "could never tolerate that" you're right, at first I couldn't - I would have rather walked through fire than make nice with her in the situation were in, but, slowly it became incredibly cathartic - first to ignore her - and then, to just not care. You guys, one day I stopped giving a shit. That was a fabulous day, it truly was. And now, she's not insignificant to me, she's no more significant than anyone else and that is a wonderful feeling.

That's what I feel when I look back on this whole thing - it forced me out of this fairy tale idea I had about the way the world worked and made me see people for the first time, Not just D! but everyone, and I like it a lot better over here - where people are flawed but they can get better, and so can I.

Pp, you are an awesome individual. You recognize that life is a bunch of shades of grey, that people are human, that we can knock each other down and pull each other back up. Your life has become incredibly honest and you have allowed yourself to feel things deeply. So many people do not let themselves go there...it is too scary. You are a really lucky person to really wake up to life. My best to you, from one DW to another.

I agree. She's impressive.

No. Sounds like a doormat rewarding bad behavior.

Shh.. Let her live in delusion until he strays again.

Aaaand there's the inevitable "you're a doormat" commentary, because - of course! Way to shore each other up ladies!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been trying to decide what makes my marriage's recovery different from the PPs who state "just leave, it's not worth it" or the people that while they "happily left" still sound so very bitter than I feel (and trust me people I could be bitter) and I think a big part of it is how we deal with this "bubbling."

I'll start by saying that DH is highly remorseful, and really worked on his SH--. I know not everyone is given that, and if he hadn't been remorseful I'm not sure how I'd feel. I think it really matters to acknowledge that it doesn't ever go away, and have a plan of how to work through it when it does bubble - but I don't hold it over his head like an anvil waiting to drop either. That's not to say it doesn't come up (particularly after a couple glasses of wine and we're discussing his mother but when it comes up it's more - I don't know...humorous? Maybe that's just my personality though. Never been a grudge holder. But it also comes up in our discussions about how to best parent our kids - and I swear to you I'm so much more interested in raising happy, honest humans than I am successful doctors or lawyers than I was before this all happened. Undeniably we are both going to be better parents because of this.

But back to the bubbling: I might need reassurance on occasion and he might need to give it. He might need to apologize one more time, but more often than not, he apologizes one more time, without me forcing it. I have to apologize too, for things I could have done better and still need to do better to this day. We're quite an apologetic, but happy family. We've all gotten pretty damn good at apologizing!

Also, I see her - mmmmm - 3-4 times a week! That's right! For those of you that say you "could never tolerate that" you're right, at first I couldn't - I would have rather walked through fire than make nice with her in the situation were in, but, slowly it became incredibly cathartic - first to ignore her - and then, to just not care. You guys, one day I stopped giving a shit. That was a fabulous day, it truly was. And now, she's not insignificant to me, she's no more significant than anyone else and that is a wonderful feeling.

That's what I feel when I look back on this whole thing - it forced me out of this fairy tale idea I had about the way the world worked and made me see people for the first time, Not just D! but everyone, and I like it a lot better over here - where people are flawed but they can get better, and so can I.

Pp, you are an awesome individual. You recognize that life is a bunch of shades of grey, that people are human, that we can knock each other down and pull each other back up. Your life has become incredibly honest and you have allowed yourself to feel things deeply. So many people do not let themselves go there...it is too scary. You are a really lucky person to really wake up to life. My best to you, from one DW to another.

I agree. She's impressive.

No. Sounds like a doormat rewarding bad behavior.

Shh.. Let her live in delusion until he strays again.

Aaaand there's the inevitable "you're a doormat" commentary, because - of course! Way to shore each other up ladies!

I like this article on the subject:

http://www.infidelityhelpgroup.com/2014/06/25/once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater-2/

Perhaps PPs husband has changed, but likely not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been trying to decide what makes my marriage's recovery different from the PPs who state "just leave, it's not worth it" or the people that while they "happily left" still sound so very bitter than I feel (and trust me people I could be bitter) and I think a big part of it is how we deal with this "bubbling."

I'll start by saying that DH is highly remorseful, and really worked on his SH--. I know not everyone is given that, and if he hadn't been remorseful I'm not sure how I'd feel. I think it really matters to acknowledge that it doesn't ever go away, and have a plan of how to work through it when it does bubble - but I don't hold it over his head like an anvil waiting to drop either. That's not to say it doesn't come up (particularly after a couple glasses of wine and we're discussing his mother but when it comes up it's more - I don't know...humorous? Maybe that's just my personality though. Never been a grudge holder. But it also comes up in our discussions about how to best parent our kids - and I swear to you I'm so much more interested in raising happy, honest humans than I am successful doctors or lawyers than I was before this all happened. Undeniably we are both going to be better parents because of this.

But back to the bubbling: I might need reassurance on occasion and he might need to give it. He might need to apologize one more time, but more often than not, he apologizes one more time, without me forcing it. I have to apologize too, for things I could have done better and still need to do better to this day. We're quite an apologetic, but happy family. We've all gotten pretty damn good at apologizing!

Also, I see her - mmmmm - 3-4 times a week! That's right! For those of you that say you "could never tolerate that" you're right, at first I couldn't - I would have rather walked through fire than make nice with her in the situation were in, but, slowly it became incredibly cathartic - first to ignore her - and then, to just not care. You guys, one day I stopped giving a shit. That was a fabulous day, it truly was. And now, she's not insignificant to me, she's no more significant than anyone else and that is a wonderful feeling.

That's what I feel when I look back on this whole thing - it forced me out of this fairy tale idea I had about the way the world worked and made me see people for the first time, Not just D! but everyone, and I like it a lot better over here - where people are flawed but they can get better, and so can I.

Pp, you are an awesome individual. You recognize that life is a bunch of shades of grey, that people are human, that we can knock each other down and pull each other back up. Your life has become incredibly honest and you have allowed yourself to feel things deeply. So many people do not let themselves go there...it is too scary. You are a really lucky person to really wake up to life. My best to you, from one DW to another.

I agree. She's impressive.

No. Sounds like a doormat rewarding bad behavior.

Shh.. Let her live in delusion until he strays again.

Aaaand there's the inevitable "you're a doormat" commentary, because - of course! Way to shore each other up ladies!

I like this article on the subject:

http://www.infidelityhelpgroup.com/2014/06/25/once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater-2/

Perhaps PPs husband has changed, but likely not.

Are you f-ing serious with this? Kris Jenner *the case study* is exemplary of all cheating spouses? Kris Jenner might be exemplary of narcissistic douchebags who will whore her children our for fame, but I really don't think you can use this as the hallmark of why people cheat and what the outcome is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I like this article on the subject:

http://www.infidelityhelpgroup.com/2014/06/25/once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater-2/

Perhaps PPs husband has changed, but likely not.

Thanks for sharing. The self-justification is really pretty interesting...
.... seemed to genuinely believe she was acting appropriately, calmly rationalizing the situation. This is common with cheaters.

.... the affair escalates from relatively innocuous behavior without them being fully cognizant that it was in fact starter affair behavior. “It just happened” characterizes that particular model of thinking.
.... It highlights how many inch towards an affair, tweaking their thinking and rationale after every interaction without really seeing how this slowly progresses them into muddier waters.


The Jenner case is quite interesting - she had at least sub-consciously decided to have an affair - rest of the actions were just the prelude to the finale.

I am actually watching a situation like this unfold where a DW continues on with a 'friendly' behavior which is clearly leading to an affair with all it aftermaths. She has managed to find justifications very similar to this - she is planning to meet as a friend, to get closure from times gone by, to brings things to a closure now and so on. She has discounted her ongoing, explicit chatting with the OM as being purely fantasy and that she can contain the impending face to face and end it on her own terms. Just hope for her sake it does not implode as she seems to have everything else in a good place except this crazy desire for the OM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I like this article on the subject:

http://www.infidelityhelpgroup.com/2014/06/25/once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater-2/

Perhaps PPs husband has changed, but likely not.

Thanks for sharing. The self-justification is really pretty interesting...
.... seemed to genuinely believe she was acting appropriately, calmly rationalizing the situation. This is common with cheaters.

.... the affair escalates from relatively innocuous behavior without them being fully cognizant that it was in fact starter affair behavior. “It just happened” characterizes that particular model of thinking.
.... It highlights how many inch towards an affair, tweaking their thinking and rationale after every interaction without really seeing how this slowly progresses them into muddier waters.


The Jenner case is quite interesting - she had at least sub-consciously decided to have an affair - rest of the actions were just the prelude to the finale.

I am actually watching a situation like this unfold where a DW continues on with a 'friendly' behavior which is clearly leading to an affair with all it aftermaths. She has managed to find justifications very similar to this - she is planning to meet as a friend, to get closure from times gone by, to brings things to a closure now and so on. She has discounted her ongoing, explicit chatting with the OM as being purely fantasy and that she can contain the impending face to face and end it on her own terms. Just hope for her sake it does not implode as she seems to have everything else in a good place except this crazy desire for the OM.

I am watching a similar thing unfold in a workplace. Is this a workplace thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I like this article on the subject:

http://www.infidelityhelpgroup.com/2014/06/25/once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater-2/

Perhaps PPs husband has changed, but likely not.

Thanks for sharing. The self-justification is really pretty interesting...
.... seemed to genuinely believe she was acting appropriately, calmly rationalizing the situation. This is common with cheaters.

.... the affair escalates from relatively innocuous behavior without them being fully cognizant that it was in fact starter affair behavior. “It just happened” characterizes that particular model of thinking.
.... It highlights how many inch towards an affair, tweaking their thinking and rationale after every interaction without really seeing how this slowly progresses them into muddier waters.


The Jenner case is quite interesting - she had at least sub-consciously decided to have an affair - rest of the actions were just the prelude to the finale.

I am actually watching a situation like this unfold where a DW continues on with a 'friendly' behavior which is clearly leading to an affair with all it aftermaths. She has managed to find justifications very similar to this - she is planning to meet as a friend, to get closure from times gone by, to brings things to a closure now and so on. She has discounted her ongoing, explicit chatting with the OM as being purely fantasy and that she can contain the impending face to face and end it on her own terms. Just hope for her sake it does not implode as she seems to have everything else in a good place except this crazy desire for the OM.

Have you told her an emotional affair is a deal-breaker to you as well as a physical affair? She may be in the mindset of if they haven't had sexual interaction it isn't an affair. But it always will lead to that. I am so sorry you are dealing with this..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been trying to decide what makes my marriage's recovery different from the PPs who state "just leave, it's not worth it" or the people that while they "happily left" still sound so very bitter than I feel (and trust me people I could be bitter) and I think a big part of it is how we deal with this "bubbling."

I'll start by saying that DH is highly remorseful, and really worked on his SH--. I know not everyone is given that, and if he hadn't been remorseful I'm not sure how I'd feel. I think it really matters to acknowledge that it doesn't ever go away, and have a plan of how to work through it when it does bubble - but I don't hold it over his head like an anvil waiting to drop either. That's not to say it doesn't come up (particularly after a couple glasses of wine and we're discussing his mother but when it comes up it's more - I don't know...humorous? Maybe that's just my personality though. Never been a grudge holder. But it also comes up in our discussions about how to best parent our kids - and I swear to you I'm so much more interested in raising happy, honest humans than I am successful doctors or lawyers than I was before this all happened. Undeniably we are both going to be better parents because of this.

But back to the bubbling: I might need reassurance on occasion and he might need to give it. He might need to apologize one more time, but more often than not, he apologizes one more time, without me forcing it. I have to apologize too, for things I could have done better and still need to do better to this day. We're quite an apologetic, but happy family. We've all gotten pretty damn good at apologizing!

Also, I see her - mmmmm - 3-4 times a week! That's right! For those of you that say you "could never tolerate that" you're right, at first I couldn't - I would have rather walked through fire than make nice with her in the situation were in, but, slowly it became incredibly cathartic - first to ignore her - and then, to just not care. You guys, one day I stopped giving a shit. That was a fabulous day, it truly was. And now, she's not insignificant to me, she's no more significant than anyone else and that is a wonderful feeling.

That's what I feel when I look back on this whole thing - it forced me out of this fairy tale idea I had about the way the world worked and made me see people for the first time, Not just D! but everyone, and I like it a lot better over here - where people are flawed but they can get better, and so can I.

This is a wonderful post.

I recognize some of myself here, so I wonder if the commonalities I see are a factor n getting through something like this. The biggest thing is the grudge-holding. I too am not a grudge holder, never have been. I'm not sure why. But I think being that way allowed me to stay. I truly have forgiven my DH.

We are also able to apply humor to the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:how long did it take for you to feel okay again if you or your spouse stepped out? Did you go to counseling? If you did, how long did you stay in counseling? Did you stay together or end up splitting? What words of wisdom would you like to tell someone who is going through this and wants to try to stay together? I'm interested in both parties view: the person who stepped out and the innocent spouse.

UH, NEVER.

Yes, we went to counseling and spent tens of thousands of dollars on that. We stayed in counseling for four years.

We are now divorced by the grace of God.

My words of wisdom are: Once a cheater, always a cheater. Unfortunately you failed. You married the wrong kind of person. This is the hardest thing I've ever had to hear, but it's the truth. I look around, and I know many of my friends are married to wonderful (though not perfect) honest, loving men. These friends chose the right person to marry. I did not. I married someone who just pretended to have these qualities.

If you want to stay together, you must know that you will never be able to trust him again. You will always wonder. You will always be scared. Also, you better have a lot of money tucked away from both individual counseling and marital counseling - and none of the good psychologists in this area take insurance.

Also google the statistics about marriage counseling.

I hope I don't sound bitter because I'm not. I'm yet to see a happily married couple who had to go to marital counseling. Though lots of people fake it! Sometimes if enough money is involved, and if you are a woman who never worked and can't support herself, I completely understand this. I just hope your kids will be okay growing up in a household without love and affection between their parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been trying to decide what makes my marriage's recovery different from the PPs who state "just leave, it's not worth it" or the people that while they "happily left" still sound so very bitter than I feel (and trust me people I could be bitter) and I think a big part of it is how we deal with this "bubbling."

I'll start by saying that DH is highly remorseful, and really worked on his SH--. I know not everyone is given that, and if he hadn't been remorseful I'm not sure how I'd feel. I think it really matters to acknowledge that it doesn't ever go away, and have a plan of how to work through it when it does bubble - but I don't hold it over his head like an anvil waiting to drop either. That's not to say it doesn't come up (particularly after a couple glasses of wine and we're discussing his mother but when it comes up it's more - I don't know...humorous? Maybe that's just my personality though. Never been a grudge holder. But it also comes up in our discussions about how to best parent our kids - and I swear to you I'm so much more interested in raising happy, honest humans than I am successful doctors or lawyers than I was before this all happened. Undeniably we are both going to be better parents because of this.

But back to the bubbling: I might need reassurance on occasion and he might need to give it. He might need to apologize one more time, but more often than not, he apologizes one more time, without me forcing it. I have to apologize too, for things I could have done better and still need to do better to this day. We're quite an apologetic, but happy family. We've all gotten pretty damn good at apologizing!

Also, I see her - mmmmm - 3-4 times a week! That's right! For those of you that say you "could never tolerate that" you're right, at first I couldn't - I would have rather walked through fire than make nice with her in the situation were in, but, slowly it became incredibly cathartic - first to ignore her - and then, to just not care. You guys, one day I stopped giving a shit. That was a fabulous day, it truly was. And now, she's not insignificant to me, she's no more significant than anyone else and that is a wonderful feeling.

That's what I feel when I look back on this whole thing - it forced me out of this fairy tale idea I had about the way the world worked and made me see people for the first time, Not just D! but everyone, and I like it a lot better over here - where people are flawed but they can get better, and so can I.

This is a wonderful post.

I recognize some of myself here, so I wonder if the commonalities I see are a factor n getting through something like this. The biggest thing is the grudge-holding. I too am not a grudge holder, never have been. I'm not sure why. But I think being that way allowed me to stay. I truly have forgiven my DH.

We are also able to apply humor to the situation.

Wow. I think this is such a sad post. The poster is mentally unhealthy and completely co-dependent. It's sad that women still feel this way, needing reassurance and all, after they stay with someone who has betrayed them.

Shudder. Co-dependency leads to an early death. Read the literature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I like this article on the subject:

http://www.infidelityhelpgroup.com/2014/06/25/once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater-2/

Perhaps PPs husband has changed, but likely not.

Thanks for sharing. The self-justification is really pretty interesting...
.... seemed to genuinely believe she was acting appropriately, calmly rationalizing the situation. This is common with cheaters.

.... the affair escalates from relatively innocuous behavior without them being fully cognizant that it was in fact starter affair behavior. “It just happened” characterizes that particular model of thinking.
.... It highlights how many inch towards an affair, tweaking their thinking and rationale after every interaction without really seeing how this slowly progresses them into muddier waters.


The Jenner case is quite interesting - she had at least sub-consciously decided to have an affair - rest of the actions were just the prelude to the finale.

I am actually watching a situation like this unfold where a DW continues on with a 'friendly' behavior which is clearly leading to an affair with all it aftermaths. She has managed to find justifications very similar to this - she is planning to meet as a friend, to get closure from times gone by, to brings things to a closure now and so on. She has discounted her ongoing, explicit chatting with the OM as being purely fantasy and that she can contain the impending face to face and end it on her own terms. Just hope for her sake it does not implode as she seems to have everything else in a good place except this crazy desire for the OM.

Have you told her an emotional affair is a deal-breaker to you as well as a physical affair? She may be in the mindset of if they haven't had sexual interaction it isn't an affair. But it always will lead to that. I am so sorry you are dealing with this..

This is someone I know and am just an observer for all intents and purposes.
What I see is that despite what is obvious to me is a full blown EA (plus explicit chat according to her), she sees it as just flirting.
I see the meet coming and from there, it is not clear where it will land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I like this article on the subject:

http://www.infidelityhelpgroup.com/2014/06/25/once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater-2/

Perhaps PPs husband has changed, but likely not.

Thanks for sharing. The self-justification is really pretty interesting...
.... seemed to genuinely believe she was acting appropriately, calmly rationalizing the situation. This is common with cheaters.

.... the affair escalates from relatively innocuous behavior without them being fully cognizant that it was in fact starter affair behavior. “It just happened” characterizes that particular model of thinking.
.... It highlights how many inch towards an affair, tweaking their thinking and rationale after every interaction without really seeing how this slowly progresses them into muddier waters.


The Jenner case is quite interesting - she had at least sub-consciously decided to have an affair - rest of the actions were just the prelude to the finale.

I am actually watching a situation like this unfold where a DW continues on with a 'friendly' behavior which is clearly leading to an affair with all it aftermaths. She has managed to find justifications very similar to this - she is planning to meet as a friend, to get closure from times gone by, to brings things to a closure now and so on. She has discounted her ongoing, explicit chatting with the OM as being purely fantasy and that she can contain the impending face to face and end it on her own terms. Just hope for her sake it does not implode as she seems to have everything else in a good place except this crazy desire for the OM.

I am watching a similar thing unfold in a workplace. Is this a workplace thing?

Maybe its the same person?
I don't know her from work though.

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Anonymous wrote:I've been trying to decide what makes my marriage's recovery different from the PPs who state "just leave, it's not worth it" or the people that while they "happily left" still sound so very bitter than I feel (and trust me people I could be bitter) and I think a big part of it is how we deal with this "bubbling."

I'll start by saying that DH is highly remorseful, and really worked on his SH--. I know not everyone is given that, and if he hadn't been remorseful I'm not sure how I'd feel. I think it really matters to acknowledge that it doesn't ever go away, and have a plan of how to work through it when it does bubble - but I don't hold it over his head like an anvil waiting to drop either. That's not to say it doesn't come up (particularly after a couple glasses of wine and we're discussing his mother but when it comes up it's more - I don't know...humorous? Maybe that's just my personality though. Never been a grudge holder. But it also comes up in our discussions about how to best parent our kids - and I swear to you I'm so much more interested in raising happy, honest humans than I am successful doctors or lawyers than I was before this all happened. Undeniably we are both going to be better parents because of this.

But back to the bubbling: I might need reassurance on occasion and he might need to give it. He might need to apologize one more time, but more often than not, he apologizes one more time, without me forcing it. I have to apologize too, for things I could have done better and still need to do better to this day. We're quite an apologetic, but happy family. We've all gotten pretty damn good at apologizing!

Also, I see her - mmmmm - 3-4 times a week! That's right! For those of you that say you "could never tolerate that" you're right, at first I couldn't - I would have rather walked through fire than make nice with her in the situation were in, but, slowly it became incredibly cathartic - first to ignore her - and then, to just not care. You guys, one day I stopped giving a shit. That was a fabulous day, it truly was. And now, she's not insignificant to me, she's no more significant than anyone else and that is a wonderful feeling.

That's what I feel when I look back on this whole thing - it forced me out of this fairy tale idea I had about the way the world worked and made me see people for the first time, Not just D! but everyone, and I like it a lot better over here - where people are flawed but they can get better, and so can I.

Pp, you are an awesome individual. You recognize that life is a bunch of shades of grey, that people are human, that we can knock each other down and pull each other back up. Your life has become incredibly honest and you have allowed yourself to feel things deeply. So many people do not let themselves go there...it is too scary. You are a really lucky person to really wake up to life. My best to you, from one DW to another.

I agree. She's impressive.

No. Sounds like a doormat rewarding bad behavior.

Shh.. Let her live in delusion until he strays again.

Aaaand there's the inevitable "you're a doormat" commentary, because - of course! Way to shore each other up ladies!

New poster. I agree that she's a doormat, and people don't come to DCUM to shore each other up. They come here to give their honest opinions, which in this case are more valuable than condoning weak and unhealthy behavior.