Is pride really worth losing your family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, nothing is worth losing your family over, but I have a good enough relationship with all of my family members that it's easy to take that position. If a family member caused me suffering, I would likely take a different position.

Physical, sexual, and emotional abuse are ok with you? Alcoholism, drug addiction, financial abuse? Those are cool for you and your children?

Not cool obviously but all of those except sexual abuse seem like they could be forgiven or at least put aside for the sake of larger family dynamics as well as my own sanity. Lots of parents hit their kids before 20 or 30 years ago. It was not considered abuse. Do I agree with that? No. But I also recognize people are a product of their times. Same with the rest, other than sexual abuse. How old are you?

Wow. Guess you are not a "let's do better than our parents" type of person.

Hmm, where did pp say that? In fact, pp immediately said they don’t agree with it. But yet you jumped to the very opposite conclusion.

The sad thing is you obviously come from a dysfunctional background and are apparently carrying that disorder forward. Your black and white thinking and communication style makes it clear. You probably can’t help it for the most part, although it’s unfortunate you didn’t find a place or person in your life to show you how to grow as a human being.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

IME people like this may do hurtful or unequal things in their will as their last "gotcha." This is a terrible reason to keep someone in your life.

Maybe yes, maybe no. But you’re making decisions for your children’s relationships, their cousins, aunts, uncles etc. To me, the best lesson to children is that human relationships are challenging but usually worthwhile and it’s important to learn how to navigate them, good and bad, especially with family bc family is family. I’d prefer to model that to my children. Not ‘uncle Bob did this and that and so I’m never speaking to him again!’ which usually means they won’t either, and then suddenly you have a growing circle of rifts that’s passed down. How tragic. Those bonds they will miss out on can never be repaired.

You can disengage from the negatives if they’re not fixable, and take only the good parts bc invariably there are some. I cannot imagine cutting off ALL contact for my kids with their grandparents bc my elderly mother said something hurtful about me. I think people like this assume intact families are all perfect, or alternatively that we are all just secretly hiding major abuse, but the reality is typically somewhere in the middle.

Yes, part of being a parent is making decisions about your children and their relationships with family. Those are things you can control. You can't control if your child has ADHD but you can certainly control if they spend time with abusive family. I prefer to model healthy boundaries and behaviors for my children.

It's so easy to spot the abusers on these threads.

Right right anyone who has a different world view is an ‘abuser’. You realize that when you throw this term around so easily, it makes people doubt that your family was ‘abusive’ as you claim. The sad truth is that some kids are just mentally ill

Sad truth, so are some parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

IME people like this may do hurtful or unequal things in their will as their last "gotcha." This is a terrible reason to keep someone in your life.

Maybe yes, maybe no. But you’re making decisions for your children’s relationships, their cousins, aunts, uncles etc. To me, the best lesson to children is that human relationships are challenging but usually worthwhile and it’s important to learn how to navigate them, good and bad, especially with family bc family is family. I’d prefer to model that to my children. Not ‘uncle Bob did this and that and so I’m never speaking to him again!’ which usually means they won’t either, and then suddenly you have a growing circle of rifts that’s passed down. How tragic. Those bonds they will miss out on can never be repaired.

You can disengage from the negatives if they’re not fixable, and take only the good parts bc invariably there are some. I cannot imagine cutting off ALL contact for my kids with their grandparents bc my elderly mother said something hurtful about me. I think people like this assume intact families are all perfect, or alternatively that we are all just secretly hiding major abuse, but the reality is typically somewhere in the middle.

Yes, part of being a parent is making decisions about your children and their relationships with family. Those are things you can control. You can't control if your child has ADHD but you can certainly control if they spend time with abusive family. I prefer to model healthy boundaries and behaviors for my children.

It's so easy to spot the abusers on these threads.

Right right anyone who has a different world view is an ‘abuser’. You realize that when you throw this term around so easily, it makes people doubt that your family was ‘abusive’ as you claim. The sad truth is that some kids are just mentally ill

Sad truth, so are some parents.

Yes, of course. And?

[Anonymous]

I don't know OP. Some people feel stuck in the choices they made. And they don't know how to undo it.

I would disagree with all the posts about the mother being fine and dandy with this cut-off. I'm sure it is painful for her but she does not know how to undo it and as time goes on, this standoff becomes the status quo.

I was listening to a podcast about the Beckham family estrangement. The parents sound totally nuts but they revolve in their own world. It wasn't one event, but a series of events, sometimes lifelong. I think that is the problem. To apologize for one issue means an apology for the way the parents raised the child. And the parents just won't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Haha, wrong. You have no idea how much peace one gets after cutting off drama-causing family members. I just recently realized I didn't even think of them. Before I'd jump every time my phone pinged. Nope, not sorry for the family member, all her own doing.

Yes, you seem so healthy and content. /s/

I'm way more healthy and content than I was 2 years ago. This is how long it apparently takes for the nervous system to calm down. Thanks for asking.

[Anonymous]

You will regret cutting off his mom from your kids.

These sort of things replay themselves.

You'll understand when your kids cut you off from their lives over something they identify
in you as toxic.

Carry on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

n

Go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know OP. Some people feel stuck in the choices they made. And they don't know how to undo it.

I would disagree with all the posts about the mother being fine and dandy with this cut-off. I'm sure it is painful for her but she does not know how to undo it and as time goes on, this standoff becomes the status quo.

I was listening to a podcast about the Beckham family estrangement. The parents sound totally nuts but they revolve in their own world. It wasn't one event, but a series of events, sometimes lifelong. I think that is the problem. To apologize for one issue means an apology for the way the parents raised the child. And the parents just won't.

He told her: apologize and mean it

[Anonymous]

My GUESS is that your DH symbolizes something to his mom that she wishes to disavow.

[Anonymous]

My mom is always trashing my husband (to me, not to him.)
I change the subject. Every time. If she pushes it, I’ll say “I’m going now” with no explanation and hang up or leave. It’s like training a dog.
I’m not going to cut her off over this. She’s a silly,spoiled old lady who happens to be a great grandma to my kids. I’m not going to sit and listen to it but I can’t end the relationship. I used to argue with her but it always ended in tears.
Of course she will never apologize or admit she was wrong. That generation believes that once you are old you can do whatever you want without consequence. Whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My GUESS is that your DH symbolizes something to his mom that she wishes to disavow.

NP but this is really interesting. Can you expand on this theory?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:That is how some parents are. She doesn’t think parents apologize. In her mind, she’s thinking just what you are - why is my son so stubborn that he can’t just get over this? Gosh, he’s so sensitive and he and his wife make a big deal about everything. I can’t believe he’s willing to lose his mother over this.

Not agreeing with her! But this is what she’s thinking. My mother is similar and this is exactly what she thinks.

OP’s MIL FAFO’d! It’s funny, but I’ll be here long after DH’s 70+ mother will. It makes me think of Taylor Swift’s Father Figure: “You made a deal with this devil, turns out my d***’s bigger!”

This is such a weird response to me. Estrangement is sad. It’s sad that some people treat other family abusively and are unwilling/unable to stop. It’s sad that some people jump to estrangement over things that are manageable. Sometimes it’s necessary but you can’t really claim the high ground when you’re making gross statements like this.

You have quite a narrow mind or you just believe platitudes over reality. Estrangement is sad for some but not sad for many other others. It’s OK that you feel sad but what you feel is not what everyone feels. Your perspective is similar to the one how a woman can’t be truly fulfilled without children. Too many people just accepted the platitude that not having kids is sad. It’s not! Many people are childless by choice and have very happy fulfilled lives. I’m sure you are shaking your head assuming it’s sad because you can only imagine within your own little bubble of constraint!,

DP. To never experience any sadness over an estrangement, sad about not having the relationships you hoped for, seems narcissistic to me. Which is what we’re talking about here.

Your example about having kids isn’t remotely similar. It doesn’t end a relationship. I wouldn’t ever presume that someone went through a grief period when deciding about kids because I have a lot of childfree friends. We also have estrangement on both sides of our family.

I’m the PP who thought the crude gleeful response was weird, and this is pretty similar to how I would have responded.

[Anonymous]

Patrick Teahan on YouTube (a childhood trauma therapist) put it this way (paraphrasing): Think about how awful it has to be to sit alone in your house as a parent whose child is no longer speaking to you, and you're alone on a major holiday, sitting there thinking, "but I'm right." What a hollow victory that must be.

He's right. We live in the age of narcissistic parenting that's all the parent, all about the parent's pride and ego. A lot of them are beginning to sit alone at home, thinking they're right, but that thinking is what cost them their child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is how some parents are. She doesn’t think parents apologize. In her mind, she’s thinking just what you are - why is my son so stubborn that he can’t just get over this? Gosh, he’s so sensitive and he and his wife make a big deal about everything. I can’t believe he’s willing to lose his mother over this.

Not agreeing with her! But this is what she’s thinking. My mother is similar and this is exactly what she thinks.

OP’s MIL FAFO’d! It’s funny, but I’ll be here long after DH’s 70+ mother will. It makes me think of Taylor Swift’s Father Figure: “You made a deal with this devil, turns out my d***’s bigger!”

This is such a weird response to me. Estrangement is sad. It’s sad that some people treat other family abusively and are unwilling/unable to stop. It’s sad that some people jump to estrangement over things that are manageable. Sometimes it’s necessary but you can’t really claim the high ground when you’re making gross statements like this.

You have quite a narrow mind or you just believe platitudes over reality. Estrangement is sad for some but not sad for many other others. It’s OK that you feel sad but what you feel is not what everyone feels. Your perspective is similar to the one how a woman can’t be truly fulfilled without children. Too many people just accepted the platitude that not having kids is sad. It’s not! Many people are childless by choice and have very happy fulfilled lives. I’m sure you are shaking your head assuming it’s sad because you can only imagine within your own little bubble of constraint!,

DP. To never experience any sadness over an estrangement, sad about not having the relationships you hoped for, seems narcissistic to me. Which is what we’re talking about here.

Your example about having kids isn’t remotely similar. It doesn’t end a relationship. I wouldn’t ever presume that someone went through a grief period when deciding about kids because I have a lot of childfree friends. We also have estrangement on both sides of our family.

I’m the PP who thought the crude gleeful response was weird, and this is pretty similar to how I would have responded.

We all deal with grief differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Patrick Teahan on YouTube (a childhood trauma therapist) put it this way (paraphrasing): Think about how awful it has to be to sit alone in your house as a parent whose child is no longer speaking to you, and you're alone on a major holiday, sitting there thinking, "but I'm right." What a hollow victory that must be.

He's right. We live in the age of narcissistic parenting that's all the parent, all about the parent's pride and ego. A lot of them are beginning to sit alone at home, thinking they're right, but that thinking is what cost them their child.

I know that's not exactly how my mom would have approached it. She's not just "right" she was trying to be helpful with her unasked for advice, she meant well with her meddling, she only wanted what was best but I was ungrateful and disrespectful and she didn't deserve to be treated that way. Patrick must not actually know the people sitting home alone, he must only know half the story.